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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » If (and when) SWTOR fails, can Obsidian make a good Star Wars game?

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58 posts found
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15968

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/07/13 2:21:18 AM#21
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by ktanner3
You must be joking. KOTOR 2 was horrible. No thanks.

 

^^ this

KOTOR made by BW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KOTOR II made by obsidian

 

This. KOTOR 2 was such a letdown.What a boring game. I was so glad when I heard that they were going to have nothing to do with TOR..

I found KOTOR 2 to be superior as well as inferior depending on topic. As an example while their story was FUBAR in terms of ending, I didn't find it as cliche in delivery as KOTOR's story. Same goes for many systems in terms of RPG mechanics, there were more dialogue options in 2 as an example.

I could also apply this to FONV over FO3. FONV and KOTOR were deeper RPG games IMO with better stories than their predecessors. They did have far more issues in regard to timing ( they are never fully complete) and updates ( user based for KOTOR 2) are needed to enjoy both games.

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  djazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/05
Posts: 3623

7/07/13 2:23:53 AM#22

I quite liked KOTOR 2, except for the rushed ending.

But you take your chances with Obsidian, their games are usually a buggy mess, similar to Bethesda games.

Anyway, I really hope there aren't anymore Star Wars mmorpgs. Star Wars games? Sure but not an mmo.

  achesoma

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 960

7/07/13 1:37:13 PM#23

Despite what these forums say, the game is doing well and not dying anytime soon.  No it doesn't have anywhere near the WoW numbers EA was going for but still thriving nonetheless with a healthy player population. 

And yes, I can guarantee another SW MMO will come out...eventually.   Most likely after the release of the next trilogy.  Though I doubt EA will want to share with Obsidian.  Don't expect it until around the year 2019. 

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1484

7/07/13 3:57:34 PM#24
Originally posted by achesoma

Despite what these forums say, the game is doing well and not dying anytime soon.  No it doesn't have anywhere near the WoW numbers EA was going for but still thriving nonetheless with a healthy player population. 

And yes, I can guarantee another SW MMO will come out...eventually.   Most likely after the release of the next trilogy.  Though I doubt EA will want to share with Obsidian.  Don't expect it until around the year 2019. 

1. If I understand the "exclusive" deal that EA signed with Disney for the next few years EA are the only company who can develop SW games except for some things that Disney retained the rights to. So the answer to the OP is no.

 

2. As far as numbers go WoW isn't the benchmark. SWTOR has gone F2P. Consider this quote 4 months after the game went F2P:

"since City of Heroes' free-to-play conversion, Lead Designer Matt "Positron" Miller has said that the company has been "blown away" by the results.

According to an interview at GameZone, City of Heroes has witnessed not only an "incredible number" of subscribers, but also a tidal wave of returning and first-time players curious about the new model. Miller cites the popularity of the Paragon Rewards program as a key factor in Freedom's success: "We've really broadened the idea of what a free game can be to a lot of people."

(Essentially what every sub based mmo that has gone F2P has said in the last few year - and for anyone unaware CoH was closed. But this is EA .... who closed the Sims Online and other F2P games last month, and other F2P games a few months ago.)
 

 

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5248

7/07/13 11:40:34 PM#25

Haven't we learned yet that Star Wars is just not an IP for MMORPGs?

It's impossible to make accurately given the nature of Jedi. Either everyone would have to be a minor Jedi or have minor force skills or no one would be able to be a Jedi. Either way, there is no way for players to be badass Jedi and still remain true to the original IP.

In The Empire Strikes Back, Vader owned Solo. None of this Smuggler vs. Sith Warrior PVP nonsense.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

7/07/13 11:53:04 PM#26
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by DamonVile

Kotor II was a buggy nightmare to play. Most of that was because of LA's deadline to launch before christmas but when a fan has to finish your game for you so others can actually play it.... I don't really see this company as the great hope for a new and better star wars game.

Maybe working with better people will mean all the difference for obsidian but I wouldn't get too excited about anything they're working on till it's done.

 

Agreed. If they can't even make a smooth single player game,how are they going to be able to do better with an MMO? I'd rather give it someone like Rock star.

I don't think they're even trying to make an mmo ? They wanted to make another single player star wars game. I'm pretty sure fans wanted it to be an mmo and inserted that into all this.

I like single player star wars games and love rts ones. I'd be happy if they made one but I'd want to know it was finished before I spent any money on it. I wouldn't say I got burnt by them, I actually liked the playable parts of kotor II but I don't trust them either.

  iFruit

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/13
Posts: 74

7/09/13 3:59:32 AM#27
No major Star Wars multiplayer project should be expected while SWTOR is up (Battlefront excepted, but that's a completely different story). You should focus on the business side of it before even starting such threads: Obsidian would have to convince Disney their MMO would overlap that of CartelWare's by miles in terms of projected revenue. And that's just to make them analyze the sense behind a license pull from EA, which is probably not at all that easy. So, in short, we can forget all hopes for a massive Star Wars game in this generation and stick to the 1001 iterations of elves with bows and orcs with battleaxes, as painful as it is. Anyway, better that then BugWare's cartel shopping.
  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1660

7/09/13 8:20:03 AM#28
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Haven't we learned yet that Star Wars is just not an IP for MMORPGs?

It's impossible to make accurately given the nature of Jedi. Either everyone would have to be a minor Jedi or have minor force skills or no one would be able to be a Jedi. Either way, there is no way for players to be badass Jedi and still remain true to the original IP.

In The Empire Strikes Back, Vader owned Solo. None of this Smuggler vs. Sith Warrior PVP nonsense.

 

Isn't this where suspending disbelief comes in? like in most games. One man takes down an army of trained Korean soldiers and then an invading bunch of aliens with a shotgun, Crysis. Play God to overpower your enemies develop brilliant technologies and fly to moon, CIV.  Single handedly take down the Germans on Omaha beach, Medal Of honor. All about as real and possible as me marrying Madonna. So why does Star Wars have to that way when nearly all other games don't? 

 

Though in the end  it doesn't matter what this or any future Star Wars MMO does they'll be Star Wars fans bitching from the highest tower multiple times a day, like a Islamic cleric calling for prayer, that they have had their childhood raped by [insert company] with this new abomination of a game/movie/book. The only thing you can do is make fun of those sad creatures as life must be very very tough for them. Maybe we should send them to Syria for a reality check?

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  akiira69

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 525

Need longer quote limits.

7/09/13 8:45:40 AM#29
Originally posted by Fruxy
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by Fruxy
Originally posted by ktanner3
You must be joking. KOTOR 2 was horrible. No thanks.

Diss other games all you want, but SWTOR was my first game that I experienced soI never many bugs in such a short period of time.

Then you've been either real lucky or don't have a whole lot of MMO experience.  You certainly never played the previous MMO that was based on this IP. Now THAT game was a buggy mess that more fits in line with the issues you brought up. I've never been stuck, my missions always work and I've never had to call for help in TOR. In that other game? All the time. 

Also, what makes you think my only issue with KOTOR 2 was bugs? I just didn't care for the game. Deal with it. 

 

There is some humor in this.  One of the most staunt supporters of SWTOR never played at launch?

 

Never stuck .. never had quest log issues .. lulz.

 

oO

 

In your opinion, SWTOR had the best launch ever, eh? oO

 

lulz, alrighty.  Now I know the source of such propaganda :P

 

Many people who played at launch had severe problems, such as stuck characters.  I still have them even today, though to a lesser extent.   At launch, people would get stuck while just walking over a stone on a path, or getting too close to a tree.  Nowadays it happens while jumping around searching for Datacrons.  .. something dev's promised at launch would be fun to search for.  Getting stuck isn't fun.

 

I also believe you never played at launch if you claim there was never a quest log issue.  My quest log was jammed up for half a year before it got fixed.  Some quests were automatically picked upon planet arrival (and talking to someone).  They could NOT be abandoned, and the quest limit was 25. 

 

Yeah.

 

Unfortunately bugs are still around, some get cleaned up at the expense of new bugs forming.  PVP, while not technically bugged is currently a mess with gear / no gear shenannigans, for instance.  PVP is already useless in this game, but to make instanced PVP useless is a lol-able moment.

 

LOL

 

There we go.

 

I don't mind defenders supporting this game, and hell, I'll support it too .. but when misinformation gets tossed around, I don't really want to be apart of the fan base.  So many lies get thrown around on the official forums as it is.

 

So lets get back on topic with Obsidian!  They want Star Wars!  Let em have it, can't hurt.

After 12 tears of MMO Game Play I can name 5 MMO's that make SWTOR launch seem 100% bug free.

Lineage 2: If it wasnt the NPC Database crashing every 45 minutes, it was the Chinese farmers intentionally crashing the servers so they wouldnt lose their items

Saga of Ryzom: The game was so buggy during Open Beta that they pulled the game back into Alpha testing to fix it. These problems literally killed the game.

Biosfear/Savage Eden: Had to refund everyones Pre-order of the game when the servers would not start when the game was supposed to go live which pushed the release date back and then killed the mmo

Everquest 2: Several months after the launch the servers went down for a routine rolling restart on friday(with majority of the developer staff calling in sick so they could play) because of an error the servers did not come back up till the following wednesday.

Now we come to the buggiest peice of software since the release of WinME:

Vanguard Saga of Heroes: This game was so buggy it made WinME seem stable it also drove players away by the thousands. Vanguard started out with over 30 servers and is now down to 1, with close to 60% of its bugs still in the game.

You see compared to these games SWTOR is relatively bug free.

Lets look at games that had a different rough start.

Matrix Online: Created by WB Interactive then sold to SOE. WB Interactive during its build up to the game promised us alot of stuff. DUring the early stages of Beta they actually put them into the game then during beta slowly removed them. By the time SOE got its hands on the game it was on life support begging for someone to pull the plug.

Warhammer Online: Some people say EA killed the game but in truth Mythic ruined the game long before EA ever bought Mythic. This is another instance of a developer promising too much and delivering to little.

Asheron's Call 2: Released way too soon and forced people to do a costly hardware upgrade,

"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"

  BadOrb

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/11/13
Posts: 778

7/09/13 12:58:36 PM#30
Originally posted by iFruit
No major Star Wars multiplayer project should be expected while SWTOR is up (Battlefront excepted, but that's a completely different story). You should focus on the business side of it before even starting such threads: Obsidian would have to convince Disney their MMO would overlap that of CartelWare's by miles in terms of projected revenue. And that's just to make them analyze the sense behind a license pull from EA, which is probably not at all that easy. So, in short, we can forget all hopes for a massive Star Wars game in this generation and stick to the 1001 iterations of elves with bows and orcs with battleaxes, as painful as it is. Anyway, better that then BugWare's cartel shopping.

O but i want lasers , grenades , guns and more guns. No hope for me ? I am now sad. i might try EQnext but nothing beats shooting people in the face with a virtual gun or laser. Maybe a Fallout MMO would be cool. What about a hybrid game where players can have bows and battleaxes and I get a grenande launcher ? Sign me up!

Cheers ,

BadOrb.

PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5248

7/09/13 1:11:14 PM#31
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Haven't we learned yet that Star Wars is just not an IP for MMORPGs?

It's impossible to make accurately given the nature of Jedi. Either everyone would have to be a minor Jedi or have minor force skills or no one would be able to be a Jedi. Either way, there is no way for players to be badass Jedi and still remain true to the original IP.

In The Empire Strikes Back, Vader owned Solo. None of this Smuggler vs. Sith Warrior PVP nonsense.

 

Isn't this where suspending disbelief comes in? like in most games. One man takes down an army of trained Korean soldiers and then an invading bunch of aliens with a shotgun, Crysis. Play God to overpower your enemies develop brilliant technologies and fly to moon, CIV.  Single handedly take down the Germans on Omaha beach, Medal Of honor. All about as real and possible as me marrying Madonna. So why does Star Wars have to that way when nearly all other games don't? 

 

Though in the end  it doesn't matter what this or any future Star Wars MMO does they'll be Star Wars fans bitching from the highest tower multiple times a day, like a Islamic cleric calling for prayer, that they have had their childhood raped by [insert company] with this new abomination of a game/movie/book. The only thing you can do is make fun of those sad creatures as life must be very very tough for them. Maybe we should send them to Syria for a reality check?

Suspending our realities is one thing. That is what Star Wars is about in the 1st place. but the problem here is that in this particular IP, the Heroes and Villains have differing power levels and skill sets. The whole concept revolves around over powered people who need overpowered people to take them on. It just doesn't lend to MMOs where everyone has to have equal opportunity and relative power levels. You either have a system in SWG where Jedi were OP (Which IMO was contributing to he demise of that game long before NGE since the game's design couldn't support the overwhelming number of players becoming Jedi) Or you have a system like SWTOR where the Jedi and powered down and powers are divided into class sets and where Jedi get strength from gear. This may look a bit like Star Wars, but it is not Star Wars. 

However, you may or may not remember, the Star Wars (Tabletop) RPG. It had an interesting concept. Most players had force skills. But they were weak and players were never supposed to become full fledged Jedi. But that won't sell MMORPGs.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Starbuck1771

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/09/06
Posts: 292

7/12/13 8:11:17 AM#32
Originally posted by iFruit
No major Star Wars multiplayer project should be expected while SWTOR is up (Battlefront excepted, but that's a completely different story). You should focus on the business side of it before even starting such threads: Obsidian would have to convince Disney their MMO would overlap that of CartelWare's by miles in terms of projected revenue. And that's just to make them analyze the sense behind a license pull from EA, which is probably not at all that easy. So, in short, we can forget all hopes for a massive Star Wars game in this generation and stick to the 1001 iterations of elves with bows and orcs with battleaxes, as painful as it is. Anyway, better that then BugWare's cartel shopping.

Yes Battlefront is a different story. It is a FPS not an MMO, which means DICE will make it. Which in general means it is comming home. Battlefront actualy got its start as a mod for battlefield 1942.

  SuperDonk

Elite Member

Joined: 6/22/10
Posts: 754

7/14/13 12:11:47 PM#33
They can't until EA's exclusive rights contract ends with Disney.

I want to be Uncle Owen again.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17626

7/14/13 12:20:30 PM#34
Originally posted by Fruxy

 

In your opinion, SWTOR had the best launch ever, eh? oO

 

lulz, alrighty.  Now I know the source of such propaganda :P

 

Many people who played at launch had severe problems, such as stuck characters.  I still have them even today, though to a lesser extent.   At launch, people would get stuck while just walking over a stone on a path, or getting too close to a tree.  Nowadays it happens while jumping around searching for Datacrons.  .. something dev's promised at launch would be fun to search for.  Getting stuck isn't fun.

well I played at launch and never had the issues you speak of.

I'm not going to say people didn't but more like "your mileage may have varied". I found SWToR at launch to be pretty decent as far as bugs. I would never go to someone asking about the game and say "oh it was a buggy mess".

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

7/14/13 12:21:45 PM#35

First, SWTOR already failed. That's a done deal, story over.

 

Second, we don't need ANOTHER singleplayer RPG dev studio to make an MMO. That's why SWTOR failed in the first place. SWTOR could have had the best writing in the world and it would have failed because it was made by SINGLEPLAYER DEV STUDIOS and those do NOT sustain an MMO!

  hyllstarter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/05
Posts: 199

7/14/13 12:29:22 PM#36
Disney will make any new Star Wars game around there new movie series. They will probably also use any company the own or own stock in.

  Frostvein

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/13
Posts: 160

7/14/13 1:28:48 PM#37

I don't know why so many people disliked KOTOR2.

 

Other than it was rushed and had the stupid random drops, it was a pretty good game.

 

 

Really hope Obsidian would have gotten the green light for KOTOR3, but prob wont happen now.

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4152

Trolls will be ignored

7/15/13 10:15:36 AM#38
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Fruxy

 

In your opinion, SWTOR had the best launch ever, eh? oO

 

lulz, alrighty.  Now I know the source of such propaganda :P

 

Many people who played at launch had severe problems, such as stuck characters.  I still have them even today, though to a lesser extent.   At launch, people would get stuck while just walking over a stone on a path, or getting too close to a tree.  Nowadays it happens while jumping around searching for Datacrons.  .. something dev's promised at launch would be fun to search for.  Getting stuck isn't fun.

well I played at launch and never had the issues you speak of.

I'm not going to say people didn't but more like "your mileage may have varied". I found SWToR at launch to be pretty decent as far as bugs. I would never go to someone asking about the game and say "oh it was a buggy mess".

 

Out of all the characters I maxed out I only had one mission that got stuck on me and it was fixed ASAP.I had a couple times where my character fell into a crack in a hill aand couldn't move but using the stick command got me unstuck right away. Compared to what I've experienced in other games(SWG,Warhammer Online,STO) TOR was smooth sailing.

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  akiira69

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 525

Need longer quote limits.

7/17/13 1:56:05 PM#39
Originally posted by DavisFlight

First, SWTOR already failed. That's a done deal, story over.

 

Second, we don't need ANOTHER singleplayer RPG dev studio to make an MMO. That's why SWTOR failed in the first place. SWTOR could have had the best writing in the world and it would have failed because it was made by SINGLEPLAYER DEV STUDIOS and those do NOT sustain an MMO!

Really? SWTOR Failed? Then explain why it is still up and running. The only time a MMO fails is when the servers are shut down. Last I checked the servers for SWTOR are still up and running. So while you assume the game is a failure it is not.

"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"

  Frostvein

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/13
Posts: 160

7/17/13 2:11:59 PM#40
Originally posted by akiira69
Originally posted by DavisFlight

First, SWTOR already failed. That's a done deal, story over.

 

Second, we don't need ANOTHER singleplayer RPG dev studio to make an MMO. That's why SWTOR failed in the first place. SWTOR could have had the best writing in the world and it would have failed because it was made by SINGLEPLAYER DEV STUDIOS and those do NOT sustain an MMO!

Really? SWTOR Failed? Then explain why it is still up and running.

So I guess that Warhammer didn't fail cause the servers are still up and running, right?

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