i saw the writing on the wall when i saw the new pricing schedule for eq2. 4 char BUT for more you can get 8.for more you can get this and that.more expansions,more money.remeber in eq there were like 2 expansions forever than bam...it was 1 every 2 months.thats when i called it quits.just got tired of the worthless expansions.

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Originally posted by different

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Originally posted by Thoom

Future investors, may say "Hey why don't you guys implement that nifty new cash cow SoE is using"

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Bingo, and you don't see any future problems for the gaming experience in this? Oh dear

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Originally posted by Smokeysong

I doubt this will effect my experience of the game. People can already buy stuff they want so why would this hurt me any more, competition wise? Competition between players in MMORPGs is an illusion anyway :)

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Originally posted by Znith

I have played various Sony games (EQ, EQ2, SWG and Planetside). I do not agree with the virtual trading of in game items. My reasons are as follows and I'm sure have been stated in the many pages on this thread.

1. I play a game to have fun and relax. It's a fact we are all in competition with each other for better gear, higher levels and fame on a server. Buying items with real life money gives no merit to those that take the easy way out.

2. Stated in another thread (not sure if it was this board or not). What happens when Sony decides that 'uber staff of lightening' needs to be nerfed? So you paid $50 bucks and lost some of that powerful uberness. Can you sue Sony? I doubt it. Did you eventually get ripped off? Looks like it

3. Opening two servers with the exchange with the 'possibility' it could move to your home server. There are no guarentees (in life or games). For now it's not going to happen but as stated if server pops go down or if mergers happen would you want this on your server? This is all a "what if senario" but it's a possiblity.

I've never been so disgusted with the attitude Sony has towards this. If you can't beat em join em? No that's not the way to run an MMORPG.

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In response to your number 2.  So let's say for the sake of argument I buy a staff of uber lightning for $50.00.  It takes me about 1.5 hours of real life work to make that money.  They nerf it... tough... not a big loss.  Whereas the person that spent 50 hours grinding the same monsters over and over to get the same staff and it gets nerfed sure has taken a bigger hit, at least in my eyes. 

In response to 3 (and to many posters in this thread) you should stop living in denial as I betcha that at least one of your ingame friends/guildies has probably bought money before.  I know I was shocked to find out a girlfriend of mine, in game, had gone and bought money from ebay.  But she wanted to spend the money so thats fine... it was her money to spend.  Did it make her a worse player?  No.  It made her that much more efficient in game though because her gear was sub par for someone of her level. 

Does sitting there and grinding the same beasties over and over and over again make you a better player?  Not likely as you arent thinking, you arent using any strategy (and if you are you are using the exact same strategy you used a hundred times before) and you arent being tested.

Now, I personally do not buy money from any of these sites, but I dont care if someone else does or not.  Its their money to do with as they please.  I also do not stay long in games that are so boring and only reward you for being a hamster in a training wheel, or that reward you for pressing f2 500.000 times.

[quote]
I hate to say it as this will most likely be taken as a flame by some people but you havent played very many mmo's, and havent played for very long have you? [/quote]

Incorrect sir, played EQ since launch in 99' till 04'; I aslo dabbled in Shadowbane, Dark Age of Camelot (albeit not seriously), and played fairly dependantly for a moderate period of time ( a few months) both EQ2 and UO. 

[quote]I take it you have no intentions of playing any mmo that is currently released or that probably will be released in the next couple years then.[/quote]

Incorrect once again, as fate would have it...I will be playing Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, primarily because if you read the FAQ and browse the board even a little bit you will determine it's a diamond in the rough (I've already checked out MEO, D&L, DNDO).  Sigil Games (the company producing the game) has been known for it's stress of importance on integrity, and as fellow gamers, making yoru gaming experience as enjoyable as possible (yes Microsoft is their backer, but Microsoft will only be handling the funding and advertising of Vanguard...everything else is in the hands of Brad McQuaid and his Crew (original EQ team until SOE took over in '01).  They are going to be exploring as many ways as possible in which to prevent IGE type sales, and will be carefully monitoring their game for farmers/bots etc....they have also already been very outspoken of their distaste for Sony's recent corporate actions.

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Originally posted by spookytooth
When people are playing a game professionaly it totaly sucks for the people who are playing the game for entertainment. The two do not mix well at all.

I could say more, but I'll just leave it at that.

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I concur wholeheartedly with this statement. There is no way to know if a person just happens to have extra game cash and items and wants to cash in on them vs. the full-time (potentially botting) "worker" player who doesn't care about environment, economy, impact on game play or the community as a whole. They are just interested in making money.

This is not a "job" -- it's a game. I'd like to see it kept a game.

This is just the first step.  One of the Sony VPs was quoted as saying that SOE was going to offer loot and cash for real world cash.

How do we know that Sony isn't selling most of these?  I believe this is a way for them to try to disguise SOE representatives generating whatever hot item is currently selling in whatever amounts is needed to make money.  Cash will be generated as needed to sell to players.  The Great Vorpal Sword of Slayage will be generated each time one is sol by the SOE representatives.

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Originally posted by Brewe

This is just the first step.  One of the Sony VPs was quoted as saying that SOE was going to offer loot and cash for real world cash.

How do we know that Sony isn't selling most of these?  I believe this is a way for them to try to disguise SOE representatives generating whatever hot item is currently selling in whatever amounts is needed to make money.  Cash will be generated as needed to sell to players.  The Great Vorpal Sword of Slayage will be generated each time one is sol by the SOE representatives.

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If you can find the quote, can you post it please.

- Taz

Sorry in advance for the lengthy post...

Do not try to universalize your own experience. Wha? Put another way, all you posters who think that X happens to you and you felt Y about it so X must happen to everyone and everyone feels Y about it, you are wrong. Everyone plays games for different reasons but on a basic level we all put a certain value on each game we play and when the value for us lowers to a certain point we stop playing and, if you are a game junkie like myself, move on to the next one. This is also known as voting with your wallet which is much more effective than destructive complaining on a forum.

OK, I know that that was painfully obvious to some of you so...let me now get off my soapbox and pose a few hypotheticals for those of you who want to challenge the assumptions that may be clouding your judgement (read: think critically)...

Many players claim to want more "realistic" or "addictive" elements in their game -- but at what point does realism overshadow the escapism that many players crave? When does a game element stop becoming fun and start becoming drudgery/grinding?

What is a game? What is a job? Does a game have to be an even playing field (gosh knows life is not on an even playing field, particularly in the working world)? Is it fair that someone with ingame friends get powerlevelled or twinked? Is it fair for random events to impact your character's advancement (the original way to get a force-sensitive character/Jedi in SWG comes to mind)?

What is a role playing game? Must an RPG be set in an idealized world where everyone starts as an equal and has the same opportunities/possibilities to advance? Might some players prefer an RPG that is more realistic in the sense that, say, excellent typing skills gives them an advantage similar to how excellent typing skills can give a real-life advantage in school/work?

Or, instead of typing skills, what about hand-eye coordination -- is it fair if I have a disability that prevents me from clicking on a mob as fast as the average player? What about mathematical ability -- is it fair if someone with a PhD in mathematics figures out the optimal way to adjust her character's strength/dexterity ratio in order to level her character faster than average?

What if a game offered the ability to spend ingame currency and time to go to ingame college to gain certain abilities that give a significant advantage over average characters? Is that fair to the player who does not have the ingame cash or time to do this?

And do not get me started on the fairness of wealthy people to buy faster computers, video cards, internet connections, etc.

My main point is as games become more complicated, it becomes increasing difficult to for the game designers/moderators to keep things fair. So for those of us who care about fairness above all else when choosing a game, for your own sake do some research in magazines or on the net. These games are out there with more coming out soon.

You are a unique snowflake and I promise you that there is a game company trying to get you to part with your money. Just be prepared that most companies, as stated in their EULAs and TOSs, have the right to do whatever, whenever, including change their EULAs and TOSs for particular game servers. If a company does something you do not like, I recommend voting with your wallet.

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Originally posted by Phibona

You are a unique snowflake and I promise you that there is a game company trying to get you to part with your money. Just be prepared that most companies, as stated in their EULAs and TOSs, have the right to do whatever, whenever, including change their EULAs and TOSs for particular game servers. If a company does something you do not like, I recommend voting with your wallet.

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Don't worry, they will vote with their wallets as thousands will most like cancel their account. A few snowflakes can add up to a lot of "Bling Bling" in this business. SOE already loss thousand of people with SWG. If then continue to make bonehead changes that subscribers don't like, they'll lose even more people. For SOE it's all about make their Executive happy, they making their customer happy. They keep forgetting that without the customers there is NO SOE.  EA is going to slowly find that out as well.

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Originally posted by Phibona

Sorry in advance for the lengthy post...

Do not try to universalize your own experience. Wha? Put another way, all you posters who think that X happens to you and you felt Y about it so X must happen to everyone and everyone feels Y about it, you are wrong. Everyone plays games for different reasons but on a basic level we all put a certain value on each game we play and when the value for us lowers to a certain point we stop playing and, if you are a game junkie like myself, move on to the next one. This is also known as voting with your wallet which is much more effective than destructive complaining on a forum.

OK, I know that that was painfully obvious to some of you so...let me now get off my soapbox and pose a few hypotheticals for those of you who want to challenge the assumptions that may be clouding your judgement (read: think critically)...

Many players claim to want more "realistic" or "addictive" elements in their game -- but at what point does realism overshadow the escapism that many players crave? When does a game element stop becoming fun and start becoming drudgery/grinding?

What is a game? What is a job? Does a game have to be an even playing field (gosh knows life is not on an even playing field, particularly in the working world)? Is it fair that someone with ingame friends get powerlevelled or twinked? Is it fair for random events to impact your character's advancement (the original way to get a force-sensitive character/Jedi in SWG comes to mind)?

What is a role playing game? Must an RPG be set in an idealized world where everyone starts as an equal and has the same opportunities/possibilities to advance? Might some players prefer an RPG that is more realistic in the sense that, say, excellent typing skills gives them an advantage similar to how excellent typing skills can give a real-life advantage in school/work?

Or, instead of typing skills, what about hand-eye coordination -- is it fair if I have a disability that prevents me from clicking on a mob as fast as the average player? What about mathematical ability -- is it fair if someone with a PhD in mathematics figures out the optimal way to adjust her character's strength/dexterity ratio in order to level her character faster than average?

What if a game offered the ability to spend ingame currency and time to go to ingame college to gain certain abilities that give a significant advantage over average characters? Is that fair to the player who does not have the ingame cash or time to do this?

And do not get me started on the fairness of wealthy people to buy faster computers, video cards, internet connections, etc.

My main point is as games become more complicated, it becomes increasing difficult to for the game designers/moderators to keep things fair. So for those of us who care about fairness above all else when choosing a game, for your own sake do some research in magazines or on the net. These games are out there with more coming out soon.

You are a unique snowflake and I promise you that there is a game company trying to get you to part with your money. Just be prepared that most companies, as stated in their EULAs and TOSs, have the right to do whatever, whenever, including change their EULAs and TOSs for particular game servers. If a company does something you do not like, I recommend voting with your wallet.

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To address some of your points. 

1) People having an advantage because they have friend to powerlevel them. 
There is no player at a disadvantage due to this because every player has the opportunity to meet people in game that will help them level faster.

2) Excellent typing skills do not give an advantage in role-playing.
When someone roleplays it's not the typing that makes them an expert at what they do, it is their ability to convincingly play a part. You could very easily have a character that doesn't speak much become better known than a chatter box simply through the actions they do.

3) MMO's are amazing in the way they let the user control their actions.
Your argument fails here also because if a person can't click on a mob fast enough, they can setup a macro that would allow them to hit one key and target an enemy. As for the person having really good math skills... understanding the formulas of the game would not provide a significant advantage over someone who doesn't have as good math skills.

4) The ability to use in game currency to buy skills and learn classes.
Again this wouldn't be an issue because every player has the ability to earn currency in game.

There is a very important point I feel you are missing. In all of the examples above, no matter what advantage people might have, they still have to play the game to get anything. They might get it faster, but they still have to invest some time. With the buying and selling of items and characters people no longer have to actually play the game to reach goals they can simply go buy them. That raises a very big issue. Is it fair that someone can get to level 50 without ever spending any time to get there?

I do agree with speaking with your wallet and I have done that. I cancelled my station subscriptions the day this was announced.

[quote]Originally posted by severius

Originally posted by Smokeysong
I doubt this will effect my experience of the game. People can already buy stuff they want so why would this hurt me any more, competition wise? Competition between players in MMORPGs is an illusion anyway :)

Well said.[/quote

here is an example of what it willbe like

in ffxi its virtually impossible to camp mobs because of the people who constantly camp them .IF you have items that drop and pay big bucks those mobs WILL be camped continously. you want be able to buy anything from auction only for cash.in otherwords the whole system will move to a cash based system.might as well get rid of game cash.

For those you responded to my previous post, thank you. I tried to respond back but it looks like the post went poof when I clicked "post message"...

Speaking in generalities again, I ask anyone reading this thread: does time equal money? I happen to agree with this adage, but I also understand the implications of a millionaire jumping on a game, paying a few thousand bucks to get whatever advantage they desire to "succeed" in the game. Do you think this person would have an enjoyable gaming experience?

I know I measure my success by what I can do on my own. I generally dislike guilds (too much drama for me) but I sometimes team with a few like-minded people to complete missions. Maybe I am in the minority, but unless someone is griefing me over and over, I could care less about what they next person is doing. I have never cried nerf (outside of a beta test ), I have never complained about ingame economies, and I have never expected a game to last more than a few years because I think it is extremely difficult for game designers to create and maintain stable economies.

Speaking of ingame economies, I have seen players of several games complain about everything under the sun ruining a particular game's economy. Well, has there ever been an economy of any country in the history of the world that was not ruined by something? Complaining about the impact of a nerf or a money sink or a loot rarity or whatever on a game's economy seems a bit silly to me. I tend to take advantage of the situation to maximize my character's returns -- to me it is a simplified stock market. I try to predict what will the next "economy ruiner" will be and, if I can, I buy low and sell high.

For those of you who do not want to concern yourselves with your games' economies -- cuz you just want to "play the game" -- to each his own. But it is a rare MMO that does not require some interaction with the game's economy.

And for those of you who have not condemned the $200 million per year industry of selling virtual stuff, the impact of real money on an ingame economy can be viewed as another market force. Even if you never buy/sell a virtual item/character, you can predict the impact of this force and turn it to your advantage. I have never bought/sold but I have certainly found ways to have this benefit my ingame characters (it is easiest if you are a crafter, but I am sure many of you are smart enough to understand what to do ingame if a particular loot starts selling for real money).

 I dont know but suddendly all forums are full of "new users" glorifying the new Exchange system..mmm

Is not that suspicious?  And yes, I know that all the newbies here will say that they are hardcore players for i dont know how long, etc, etc, etc..... but......

Imply what u want from this...to your self!

Come on already this isnt a big a deal as some think.Dont play on those servers,report anyone you see doing this and play the way you want.

Problem solved.Get over it already.

Yes, I have a petition ~ I log in to find I have a new name, all my option settings and UI's have been reset to the ghay set up you had us all start with on day 1. My Char name did not violate anything; it is my niece’s name. I have no intention of submitting another name because your loser/GM's are on some power trip to see how well they can retaliate. Gee funny how this happened just after I submitted my vote for your "new server", and added my opinion. Yes, I am but 1 of the people who pay you to continue to beta tests your game. In my world money talks. I see no need to provide you with another name to nurf. My other niece is Josefina ~ I'm sure some pig will find something wrong with that name too. I will delete this char to get down to the 4 allowed with the basic subscription and cancel my "Sony all access one station pass" or whatever the hell-confusing name you call it. I'm convinced you came up with those names so you confuse people into paying for something other than what they wanted.

One unhappy customer tells two friends, they tell four others, and the destruction begins ~~

I'm disappointed that SOE chose to do this but I also expected it to happen eventually. Perhaps, as others have noted elsewhere, this will lead to game designs where content cannot be so easily associated with or exploited via real world cash. The very isolation of the virtual world from the real world is one of its attractions and seeing this isolation broken, may kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

ok i got it for those that think this will ruin the game, then thye should take away the shared bank, ban trading, cuase we don't want people to have things that toon did not get to drop for them selves heaven forbid.  ban having multiple account. set max playtime to 1 hour a day... let see what else can we do to make sure the game feild is fair as you want it to be. 

real now this will do nothing in the long run, it will only be on a few servers to start, but hey its on every server already. the only way for this not to happen is to go back to good ole pnp.