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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How the "I pay $15/mo like everyone, i should see everything" mentality has contributed to the current state of MMO's.

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163 posts found
  Terranah

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3612

7/01/13 2:23:28 PM#101

Customers don't make the games they just play them.

 

 

  Skaioverride

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 48

7/01/13 2:30:01 PM#102
Originally posted by Terranah

Customers don't make the games they just play them.

 

 

but a good player base paying a monthly fee makes a good budget, which in turn makes a good, high quality game if spent wisely 

  Attend4455

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 166

7/01/13 2:36:10 PM#103
Originally posted by Salahudin
definitely  15$ a month ought to give access to all content... but whether you get to it or not should depend on your skill and play..

agreed ... can't see what the problem is TBH. If you pay a sub you expect to get access to all content unless it's stated otherwise in the T&Cs.

That doesn't mean you are entitled to all content.

But it doesn't mean that you pay a sub and then have content locked away behind a paywall.

Did I miss something in the OP?

I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone

  HoopdyDoo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/09
Posts: 5

7/01/13 3:02:45 PM#104

I'm 41 with a wife, a job, and three kids.  Needless to say, I don't have nearly the time that I used have back in my Everquest gaming days.  

 

Will I ever be anything but casual again?  Nope.  Will I ever have time to be part of a high end raiding guild again?  Hell no.  Will I ever see the high end loot again.  Absolutely not.  But that's how it should be.  If I choose to play a game, it's up to me to adapt to the game, not the other way around.  

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

7/01/13 3:16:15 PM#105
Originally posted by HoopdyDoo

I'm 41 with a wife, a job, and three kids.  Needless to say, I don't have nearly the time that I used have back in my Everquest gaming days.  

 

Will I ever be anything but casual again?  Nope.  Will I ever have time to be part of a high end raiding guild again?  Hell no.  Will I ever see the high end loot again.  Absolutely not.  But that's how it should be.  If I choose to play a game, it's up to me to adapt to the game, not the other way around.  

I agree.I don't have time to be a hardcore raider or PvPer anymore either but if I find an MMO I like I find people in the same boat and work around the time we all have to play and contribute and do so at our own speed.We don't need to see all the content because there's plenty enough to keep us busy.

I've never understood the I want all the content,superficial or not, right now even if I have to pay instead of play crowd.

Also I find the OP's theories biased and unproven.My biased and unproven theory is that as soon as Wizards of the West Coast  proved people will pay for extras to get an advantage with Magic The Gathering the writing was on the wall.With F2P you get easy money for little effort,so devs/publishers were always gonna flock to it.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19281

7/01/13 3:21:43 PM#106
Originally posted by Skaioverride
Originally posted by Terranah

Customers don't make the games they just play them.

 

 

but a good player base paying a monthly fee makes a good budget, which in turn makes a good, high quality game if spent wisely 

Or a number of whales pay through the roof makes a good budget, which in turn makes a good, high quality game if spent wisely.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19281

7/01/13 3:23:50 PM#107
Originally posted by HoopdyDoo

 

 

Will I ever be anything but casual again?  Nope.  Will I ever have time to be part of a high end raiding guild again?  Hell no.  Will I ever see the high end loot again.  Absolutely not.  But that's how it should be.  If I choose to play a game, it's up to me to adapt to the game, not the other way around.  

Free market goes both ways. You are clearly not going to play a game with only high end raiding and nothing else.

Devs choose whether to cater to your needs, and they have to adapt to the market to survive.

Very simply, i don't adapt to games. I play them as i like, and move on when i don't. Devs have no obligation to cater to my wishes, but if they want my business, they better. It is a free world.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

7/01/13 3:24:52 PM#108
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Skaioverride
Originally posted by Terranah

Customers don't make the games they just play them.

 

 

but a good player base paying a monthly fee makes a good budget, which in turn makes a good, high quality game if spent wisely 

Or a number of whales pay through the roof makes a good budget, which in turn makes a good, high quality game if spent wisely.

 

Or...it leads to  slight variations of things whales buy in the cash shop.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19281

7/01/13 3:29:48 PM#109
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Skaioverride
Originally posted by Terranah

Customers don't make the games they just play them.

 

 

but a good player base paying a monthly fee makes a good budget, which in turn makes a good, high quality game if spent wisely 

Or a number of whales pay through the roof makes a good budget, which in turn makes a good, high quality game if spent wisely.

 

Or...it leads to  slight variations of things whales buy in the cash shop.

Or it leads to more content hoping to convert more players into whales?

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

7/01/13 3:31:50 PM#110
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Skaioverride
Originally posted by Terranah

Customers don't make the games they just play them.

 

 

but a good player base paying a monthly fee makes a good budget, which in turn makes a good, high quality game if spent wisely 

Or a number of whales pay through the roof makes a good budget, which in turn makes a good, high quality game if spent wisely.

 

Or...it leads to  slight variations of things whales buy in the cash shop.

Or it leads to more content hoping to convert more players into whales?

Hasn't lead to that  in any game I've tried by that's just my opinion amd why I'm not playing any MMO right now.

  Ozivois

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/10
Posts: 600

7/01/13 3:34:55 PM#111
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Salahudin
definitely  15$ a month ought to give access to all content... but whether you get to it or not should depend on your skill and play..

I have 3 jobs and 2 wives. Devs should cater to the majority like me. (/pauses to giggle like a schoolgirl)..who have a life, not the basement dwelling zombies. 

I disagree.  Devs should make it so that basement dwellers can be more uber than us casual players. It's the right thing to do since they don't have a life: now they have (a virtual) one!

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19281

7/01/13 3:35:47 PM#112
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Skaioverride
Originally posted by Terranah

Customers don't make the games they just play them.

 

 

but a good player base paying a monthly fee makes a good budget, which in turn makes a good, high quality game if spent wisely 

Or a number of whales pay through the roof makes a good budget, which in turn makes a good, high quality game if spent wisely.

 

Or...it leads to  slight variations of things whales buy in the cash shop.

Or it leads to more content hoping to convert more players into whales?

Hasn't lead to that  in any game I've tried by that's just my opinion amd why I'm not playing any MMO right now.

And it has led to that in MMOs i played (STO, DDO, LOTRO .. all have new content),and that is why i am playing MMOs right now.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19281

7/01/13 3:36:53 PM#113
Originally posted by Ozivois
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Salahudin
definitely  15$ a month ought to give access to all content... but whether you get to it or not should depend on your skill and play..

I have 3 jobs and 2 wives. Devs should cater to the majority like me. (/pauses to giggle like a schoolgirl)..who have a life, not the basement dwelling zombies. 

I disagree.  Devs should make it so that basement dwellers can be more uber than us casual players. It's the right thing to do since they don't have a life: now they have (a virtual) one!

LOL

The truth is it is a free market and devs can cater to whoever they want. There is no right thing to do. There is only different business strategies, and some devs are more successful than others.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

7/01/13 3:48:30 PM#114
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Skaioverride
Originally posted by Terranah

Customers don't make the games they just play them.

 

 

but a good player base paying a monthly fee makes a good budget, which in turn makes a good, high quality game if spent wisely 

Or a number of whales pay through the roof makes a good budget, which in turn makes a good, high quality game if spent wisely.

 

Or...it leads to  slight variations of things whales buy in the cash shop.

Or it leads to more content hoping to convert more players into whales?

Hasn't lead to that  in any game I've tried by that's just my opinion amd why I'm not playing any MMO right now.

And it has led to that in MMOs i played (STO, DDO, LOTRO .. all have new content),and that is why i am playing MMOs right now.

I used to love LoTRO,burglar is still one of the best rogue classes ever if not he best, but since it went F2P I haven't found the new content compelling or long lasting or as good as before it's transformation.This goes for all the games you mentioned and STO's released were always short lived and anemic even before going F2P.Bur hey if it works for you I can't argue against that.

Personally I'd rather pay for a well made single player game or multiplayer game than play any of the current MMOs for free.Or failing anything interesting me in Gaming(likely with summer here) then I'll invest in netflix and T.V during sown time or do outdoor activities of which there are numerous around here.Since my friends feel the same I have no peer pressure to take up any MMO either.

I

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5161

7/02/13 2:32:26 AM#115
Originally posted by theAsna
Originally posted by nariusseldon

I don't see it as enttitlement when it is the devs who is pushing to give the players more for free. May be it is competition. May be it is to get more people into the door. The reason matter little.

At the same time, it is a free market. If some consumers want to have an entitlement mentality, it is their perogative. Devs have little obligations to provide anything accordingly. 

 

 

At first glance it may not matter. But in the end it will matter. What is a company going to do in today's MMO market?
  1. Cut costs for development as well as maintenance.
  2. Increase the marketing budget.
  3. Introduce micro transactions where the total price for a customer is not transparent.
  4. Target a mass market with a bland, standardized and cheap product.

Unfortunately this is where the MMO industry has been for a few years now. Trying to keep players interested in one MMO template when you have hundreds of MMOs out there using the same template is not easy. I do feel MMO's have entered a feeding frenzy and are in danger of eating each other.

I am not sure what will be left, but we are in July now and only one P2P/B2P MMO has been released this year. If F2P from launch MMO's are all that the future has to offer then an even more bland, standardised, cheap product may be the future of MMO's.

The F2P model has two main issues, lack of money from investment before release and the cash shop distorting the MMO's gameplay. A few years ago I would have seen no solution to either issue, now Kickstarter could provide a solution to the lack of funding. Could, but has yet to, so don't hold your breath. Some hybrid MMO's have a better cash shop than others, but they never escape the problems associated with a cash shop. So I don't see much light on the horizon.

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4071

7/02/13 2:35:52 AM#116

The idea behind the sub $15 a month was to help provide the company with a steady income so they could keep the servers running and keep patchnig the game and also work on paid exp packs.. at least that is how i always seen it... yes $15 a month gave you full access to the game.. none of this shitty cash shops where you have to pay for every little bit of content..

 

The cash shops in MMOs are the worse thing to happen to MMORPGs since wow..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

7/02/13 3:12:01 AM#117
Originally posted by Caldrin

The idea behind the sub $15 a month was to help provide the company with a steady income so they could keep the servers running and keep patchnig the game and also work on paid exp packs.. at least that is how i always seen it... yes $15 a month gave you full access to the game.. none of this shitty cash shops where you have to pay for every little bit of content..

 

The cash shops in MMOs are the worse thing to happen to MMORPGs since wow..

Its all about money so cash shops(also DLC) is part of that.

Result for me personally i quit mmo's and play solo games or co-op games with friend.

I also don't buy DLC eather for solo games, only expansions.

Some games The Witcher 2 or divinity 2 give free expansions and are DRM free.

I carefully seek developers who release games as it should be and are DRM free.

Me personally have no hope for mmo's anymore.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19281

7/02/13 11:14:56 AM#118
Originally posted by Drakynn
 

I used to love LoTRO,burglar is still one of the best rogue classes ever if not he best, but since it went F2P I haven't found the new content compelling or long lasting or as good as before it's transformation.This goes for all the games you mentioned and STO's released were always short lived and anemic even before going F2P.Bur hey if it works for you I can't argue against that.

The point is that these games all have new content, and while it is up to debate if one game has enough new content to fill a person's entertainment needs, i don't have to play just one. It is F2P, and if you total them up, i don't have enough time to consume all the content.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19281

7/02/13 11:20:01 AM#119
Originally posted by Scot
 

Unfortunately this is where the MMO industry has been for a few years now. Trying to keep players interested in one MMO template when you have hundreds of MMOs out there using the same template is not easy. I do feel MMO's have entered a feeding frenzy and are in danger of eating each other.

I am not sure what will be left, but we are in July now and only one P2P/B2P MMO has been released this year. If F2P from launch MMO's are all that the future has to offer then an even more bland, standardised, cheap product may be the future of MMO's.

The F2P model has two main issues, lack of money from investment before release and the cash shop distorting the MMO's gameplay. A few years ago I would have seen no solution to either issue, now Kickstarter could provide a solution to the lack of funding. Could, but has yet to, so don't hold your breath. Some hybrid MMO's have a better cash shop than others, but they never escape the problems associated with a cash shop. So I don't see much light on the horizon.

1) It is no different than other industries when an explosion will cause consolidation. There are so many now that certainly i cannot play them all. So the danger is on the supply side. If they "eat" up some, i wouldn't really care, as a consumer.

2) You did not count the "close enough" games. There are a ton of F2P releases. marvel heroes, NWO, Warframe, March of War, Jagged Alliance Online .... some actually claim to be MMOs. And if you actually play these games, i don't know how you would call them bland. They are as different as you can get from games.

3) KS raises peanuts compared what you need for a proper MMO. Cash shop? It is just a preference that you don't like it. I feel it is pretty easy just to ignore it and play.

 

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1897

7/02/13 11:04:27 PM#120
Originally posted by Nephelai
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by Robokapp

Not everyone paying his college fees gets As and degrees. 

^ This, right here, should  end the thread.

 

No more needs to be said. Absolutely true.

 

 

Its not a bad analogy but not a good business one when the outcome is trivial - see what you get in college or university usually matters for the rest of your life so you'll stick it out even if you just get a pass. In games it matters nothing so people can just unsub and the devs have a heart attack. If everyone that didn't get an "A" left in their first semester then Universities would be in crisis - somehow there exists an environment where people are too scared to do that. Probably supply and demand again driven by the importance.

 

I don't agree people should get the highest achievement given they have access but not sure how to ensure the system works when the motivation to keep the average playing isn't significant enough.

 

Maybe Golf is a better analogy. I pay my fee for a round but that doesn't guarantee me a score. I also cant nerf the course but I can complete it an get a score. Maybe getting a score type of thing is what gear should be driven by etc e.g time trials for raids as in the challenge mode dungeons in WoW. i.e everyone gets to do it and you can take as long as you want but you get a greater reward the faster you do it. Or something along those lines.

 

 

 

 

I don't know how anyone could equate gaming with getting an education.  That flew right over my head.  Even golf allows for handicaps.

 

I would say it is safe to assume that the majority of gamers are playing for the entertainment, not as some kind of replacement for real life achievement.  I get that some people like and want that, but to expect the entire genre to side more  with that philosophy when it is not the fiscally responsible way to go is a bit of a stretch.  Maybe some indie company can get away with it with their lower overhead and be content with lower profit margins, but I cannot see the genre ever going back to the days when it was hardcore nerds that were the primary consumer base.

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