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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Lead Game Designer on Everquest Next Debunks Non-Consent PVP

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296 posts found
  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1325

We live for The One, we die for The One.

6/27/13 10:58:47 AM#201
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Ecoces
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by adderVXI
Why cant we just have a flagging system like SWG was?  All those people wanting the pvp excitement can have it.  That would cut out the killing of level 2 people in starter areas though which is perhaps the real goal. 

Many of us would like that or separate rule set servers but the PvP crowd, by and large, will never meet In the middle.  For that demographic it is either their way or the highway.

Same could be said for PvEers, Sandbox gamers, themepark gamers... wait thats seems to be the way gamers are.

Exactly...

actually thats not true at all, many PVE'rs and Consensual PVP supporters im sure would be fine with giving FFA PVPers a separate server so they can enjoy themselves.

 

in fact this HAS been brought up many times in this thread and others on this very forum, yet what is the typical response? "oh separate servers mean the PVP is tacked on and that sucks so no thanks".

 

PVE'rs and Consensual PVPers are open to compromise, its the FFA PVPers that want everyone to be killable at anytime and thats it everything else is tacked on PVP.

According to THIS poll, almost 40% of gamers dont want PvP to be in the game in any form, my guess that would be your easy going PvEers. Not that I blame them as PvP of any form means classes and skills balanced for PvP and that steps on the toes of PvE gamers. Gamers like what they like and we all are a picky bunch.

only difference is that if you tell those 40% of gamers "ok, we will go with separate pvp and pve servers and with pve and pvp versions of skills and spells, so they can be balanced independently", i am pretty sure they will be absolutely ok with that, while if you say that to the ffa crowd, they will refuse. why? because they know that population of ffa servers will be a lot lower if there are also pve or consensual pvp servers.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3466

6/27/13 11:23:07 AM#202
Originally posted by Benedikt
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Ecoces
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by adderVXI
Why cant we just have a flagging system like SWG was?  All those people wanting the pvp excitement can have it.  That would cut out the killing of level 2 people in starter areas though which is perhaps the real goal. 

Many of us would like that or separate rule set servers but the PvP crowd, by and large, will never meet In the middle.  For that demographic it is either their way or the highway.

Same could be said for PvEers, Sandbox gamers, themepark gamers... wait thats seems to be the way gamers are.

Exactly...

actually thats not true at all, many PVE'rs and Consensual PVP supporters im sure would be fine with giving FFA PVPers a separate server so they can enjoy themselves.

 

in fact this HAS been brought up many times in this thread and others on this very forum, yet what is the typical response? "oh separate servers mean the PVP is tacked on and that sucks so no thanks".

 

PVE'rs and Consensual PVPers are open to compromise, its the FFA PVPers that want everyone to be killable at anytime and thats it everything else is tacked on PVP.

According to THIS poll, almost 40% of gamers dont want PvP to be in the game in any form, my guess that would be your easy going PvEers. Not that I blame them as PvP of any form means classes and skills balanced for PvP and that steps on the toes of PvE gamers. Gamers like what they like and we all are a picky bunch.

only difference is that if you tell those 40% of gamers "ok, we will go with separate pvp and pve servers and with pve and pvp versions of skills and spells, so they can be balanced independently", i am pretty sure they will be absolutely ok with that, while if you say that to the ffa crowd, they will refuse. why? because they know that population of ffa servers will be a lot lower if there are also pve or consensual pvp servers.

Wrong... that was one of the options and they didnt pick it. They picked the one where there is no PvP and it wont effect the game when it comes to skill and class balance. All gamers, all, want what they want. I have been MMOing for 14+ years and I have played from PvP servers, RP servers, PvE games and I have found jurks and nice people in all games on all server and game types. It would be like stereotyping a race as being rude, nerds or crooks. Generalizations are just in bad taste.

EDIT: Just to clarify, skills that have different values in PvP and PvE still have been shown to unbalance PvE classes and skills. Many said clearly in that thread and others they didnt even want that option.

  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1325

We live for The One, we die for The One.

6/27/13 12:36:48 PM#203
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Benedikt

only difference is that if you tell those 40% of gamers "ok, we will go with separate pvp and pve servers and with pve and pvp versions of skills and spells, so they can be balanced independently", i am pretty sure they will be absolutely ok with that, while if you say that to the ffa crowd, they will refuse. why? because they know that population of ffa servers will be a lot lower if there are also pve or consensual pvp servers.

Wrong... that was one of the options and they didnt pick it. They picked the one where there is no PvP and it wont effect the game when it comes to skill and class balance. All gamers, all, want what they want. I have been MMOing for 14+ years and I have played from PvP servers, RP servers, PvE games and I have found jurks and nice people in all games on all server and game types. It would be like stereotyping a race as being rude, nerds or crooks. Generalizations are just in bad taste.

EDIT: Just to clarify, skills that have different values in PvP and PvE still have been shown to unbalance PvE classes and skills. Many said clearly in that thread and others they didnt even want that option.

you dont understand my point - take option to not having pvp at all off the table, then give them option i mentioned. they will be ok with that, ffa crowd will not.

ad edit: i am not saying different numbers, i am saying different versions - how does having separate skills only with same name and icon, one for pve, other for pvp unbalancing PVE?

  grimfall

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1158

6/27/13 12:53:15 PM#204
Originally posted by Dudehog
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

The flagging system of SWG is actually better than full open world pvp in my opinion. There was nothing more fun than going into Coronet flagged on my jedi or main and walking around all the other players too afraid to go overt and attack me because they didn't want to die and  become flagged for pvp themselves.

But you don't have a problem with different server rules do you?   As long as you can PVP on a PVP server you and all the other PVPers(i play Age Of Wulin but i don't want my favorite pve built on pvp) should be happy, right?

You don't need different server rules if you use a flagging system. If you don't want to pvp then just stay neutral and don't attack anyone who is red. You can sit back and watch the fighting as a spectator.

Besides, it adds to the atmosphere of the game to have people with different preferences regarding pve and pvp all sharing the same space.

The original Everquest had a flagging system.  Almost no one used it.  Guess what happens when you're grouped with a guy who is flagged, and you use an AOE attack?  Or if you're not grouped with a  high level character who is flagged, and he just chases you around until you AOE something or accidentally target him...

Maybe SWG's system worked better, but it's not just like a slam dunk.

  Ecoces

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 802

6/27/13 1:21:41 PM#205
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Ecoces
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by adderVXI
Why cant we just have a flagging system like SWG was?  All those people wanting the pvp excitement can have it.  That would cut out the killing of level 2 people in starter areas though which is perhaps the real goal. 

Many of us would like that or separate rule set servers but the PvP crowd, by and large, will never meet In the middle.  For that demographic it is either their way or the highway.

Same could be said for PvEers, Sandbox gamers, themepark gamers... wait thats seems to be the way gamers are.

Exactly...

actually thats not true at all, many PVE'rs and Consensual PVP supporters im sure would be fine with giving FFA PVPers a separate server so they can enjoy themselves.

 

in fact this HAS been brought up many times in this thread and others on this very forum, yet what is the typical response? "oh separate servers mean the PVP is tacked on and that sucks so no thanks".

 

PVE'rs and Consensual PVPers are open to compromise, its the FFA PVPers that want everyone to be killable at anytime and thats it everything else is tacked on PVP.

According to THIS poll, almost 40% of gamers dont want PvP to be in the game in any form, my guess that would be your easy going PvEers. Not that I blame them as PvP of any form means classes and skills balanced for PvP and that steps on the toes of PvE gamers. Gamers like what they like and we all are a picky bunch.

what your poll tells me is that the "only PVE" with no PVP is in the minority. As even if you take out the 18% from the FFA PVP from your poll you still have almost 50% of people wanting some form of PvP. People actually enjoy PVP on their own terms so of course they aren't going to choose the separate PVP and PVE servers choice.

 

its actually a bad poll considering the question because of what i stated. I didn't choose separate PVE and PVP servers as well because I want to PVP as well and there were other options i like better. here is the poll to make ...

 

As a PVE'r or Consensual PVPer, would you care if EQNext offered FFA PVP servers? im fairly sure you would get a resounding no.

  User Deleted
6/27/13 1:41:17 PM#206
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
 

According to THIS poll, almost 40% of gamers dont want PvP to be in the game in any form

ONE)  That's not what the poll shows.

TWO)  It doesn't matter what we want.  The game has or doesn't have PVP.  

THREE)  This is only a poll of people whom visit MMORPG and cared enough to vote on your poll.

It kills me when people think Game Design is a democracy.  LOL

 

  Telil

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/09
Posts: 270

6/27/13 1:50:14 PM#207

i know you can read comments in hundreds of different ways, but you can quote me on this if i am wrong and make me look stupid, but wasnt that pretty conclusive?

I mean do you really think he would have made a comment like that if the game was going to be FFA PVP?

i take from that comment that the game will be either seperate servers, arena/battlegrounds or consensual.

  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 794

6/27/13 1:52:28 PM#208
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by Saryhl
Originally posted by TheJoda
Not much really said at all.......You can read that 100's different ways.

It can only be read in the context of the question being answered. That is will it be forced on players who do not want it. The answer, That would be a poor design decision.

I understand people want to live in their little world of believing they are right, but that gets old when the truth hammer hits you and they still deny it.

Maybe he doesn't think forced pvp is a bad design decision?  I don't really like the idea of forced pvp, but that doesn't make it a good or bad design decision, it just means I don't like it.  Bad design decision to him could mean that their is faction pvp but not ffa kill your neighbor pvp.  Or ffa pvp with no consequences could be a bad design decision to him so they designed it with ffa pvp but with penalties of some kind.  In the context of your question there are dozens of potential "bad design decisions."  I have never seen a game where players took such tiny bits of information and made such sweeping inferences from them.

A bad design decision is one that costs SOE money.

Lets see what everyone infers from that.

They aren't designing this game to be different just to appeal to a small niche of  PvP'ers.  They are designing it to be different, yet still appeal to the broadest possible audience, as that is the way they make the most money.   What their interpretation of that is, remains to be seen.  I expect a little of both with a leaning to PvE side.    And pigs will fly before it is FFA non-consentual PvP, at least on a single server.

Just have to wait and see.

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  User Deleted
6/27/13 2:04:09 PM#209
Originally posted by Boneserino
FFA non-consentual PvP, at least on a single server.

Just have to wait and see.

I too find it hard to think they'll go full FFA.  But who knows what they have up their sleeve.  I just wish it was August 2nd already.  lol

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3466

6/27/13 2:06:18 PM#210
Originally posted by Benedikt
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Benedikt

only difference is that if you tell those 40% of gamers "ok, we will go with separate pvp and pve servers and with pve and pvp versions of skills and spells, so they can be balanced independently", i am pretty sure they will be absolutely ok with that, while if you say that to the ffa crowd, they will refuse. why? because they know that population of ffa servers will be a lot lower if there are also pve or consensual pvp servers.

Wrong... that was one of the options and they didnt pick it. They picked the one where there is no PvP and it wont effect the game when it comes to skill and class balance. All gamers, all, want what they want. I have been MMOing for 14+ years and I have played from PvP servers, RP servers, PvE games and I have found jurks and nice people in all games on all server and game types. It would be like stereotyping a race as being rude, nerds or crooks. Generalizations are just in bad taste.

EDIT: Just to clarify, skills that have different values in PvP and PvE still have been shown to unbalance PvE classes and skills. Many said clearly in that thread and others they didnt even want that option.

you dont understand my point - take option to not having pvp at all off the table, then give them option i mentioned. they will be ok with that, ffa crowd will not.

ad edit: i am not saying different numbers, i am saying different versions - how does having separate skills only with same name and icon, one for pve, other for pvp unbalancing PVE?

Starts right at class design. They start designing classes that can have skill sets act different in PvP and PvE. Take a enchanter, how awesome would that class be if all mez spells lasted 2-5 seconds like most CC in PvP games. They are designed to control a crowd. How do you balance that set of skills without making them a new class or breaking the core of what they are. Same with a class like a druid, even with all spells balanced for PvP, they have so many tools they would be a god in PvP. So the core of what makes a class work in PvE can often not be balance for PvP when the design of the class is made for PvE. Now go tell the EQ fans they cant have Bards and Enchanters or Druids because the core design cant be balance for PvP. Sure you could shorten their CC times and make it so the AE CC limit the number of targets but what do you have left? Pure PvEers want a game designed from the ground up with nothing but PvE in mind, from teaming to solo.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3735

RIP City of Heroes!

6/27/13 2:07:52 PM#211
Originally posted by Ecoces
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Ecoces
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by adderVXI
Why cant we just have a flagging system like SWG was?  All those people wanting the pvp excitement can have it.  That would cut out the killing of level 2 people in starter areas though which is perhaps the real goal. 

Many of us would like that or separate rule set servers but the PvP crowd, by and large, will never meet In the middle.  For that demographic it is either their way or the highway.

Same could be said for PvEers, Sandbox gamers, themepark gamers... wait thats seems to be the way gamers are.

Exactly...

actually thats not true at all, many PVE'rs and Consensual PVP supporters im sure would be fine with giving FFA PVPers a separate server so they can enjoy themselves.

 

in fact this HAS been brought up many times in this thread and others on this very forum, yet what is the typical response? "oh separate servers mean the PVP is tacked on and that sucks so no thanks".

 

PVE'rs and Consensual PVPers are open to compromise, its the FFA PVPers that want everyone to be killable at anytime and thats it everything else is tacked on PVP.

According to THIS poll, almost 40% of gamers dont want PvP to be in the game in any form, my guess that would be your easy going PvEers. Not that I blame them as PvP of any form means classes and skills balanced for PvP and that steps on the toes of PvE gamers. Gamers like what they like and we all are a picky bunch.

what your poll tells me is that the "only PVE" with no PVP is in the minority. As even if you take out the 18% from the FFA PVP from your poll you still have almost 50% of people wanting some form of PvP. People actually enjoy PVP on their own terms so of course they aren't going to choose the separate PVP and PVE servers choice.

 

its actually a bad poll considering the question because of what i stated. I didn't choose separate PVE and PVP servers as well because I want to PVP as well and there were other options i like better. here is the poll to make ...

 

As a PVE'r or Consensual PVPer, would you care if EQNext offered FFA PVP servers? im fairly sure you would get a resounding no.

 Not to smart imo.  Of that 50%, how many of that is pvp only?  you have pve, pvp and various overlaps.  It seems obvious that largest is pve.

  Vidir

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/04
Posts: 966

6/27/13 2:15:24 PM#212
Even if soe decide to release 2 versions of eqnext, one eqnext pvp and Another eqnext pve, it would not take many Days untill people would be whining about that was not what we wantet but we want free pvp on the pve servers not this.
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

6/27/13 2:33:55 PM#213


Originally posted by Vidir
Even if soe decide to release 2 versions of eqnext, one eqnext pvp and Another eqnext pve, it would not take many Days untill people would be whining about that was not what we wantet but we want free pvp on the pve servers not this.


Yes, but given that SOE is going to push away some group of people because they can't appeal to everyone, which group being pushed away is going to cause the least financial damage to the game?

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  User Deleted
6/27/13 2:52:24 PM#214
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Vidir
Even if soe decide to release 2 versions of eqnext, one eqnext pvp and Another eqnext pve, it would not take many Days untill people would be whining about that was not what we wantet but we want free pvp on the pve servers not this.



Yes, but given that SOE is going to push away some group of people because they can't appeal to everyone, which group being pushed away is going to cause the least financial damage to the game in the long run?

 

Added that part because they changed game design a couple of years ago.  The reason?  They see tons of people jump into a game, play for a month and then quit.  That trend they are trying to stop.  So if you are guessing what they are going to do, the best place to start from is here.  Ask yourself, is my idea/hope for EQ Next different from the games that have had this happen to themselves?  If the answer is no, then you're probably the group the game is going to push away.

 

  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1325

We live for The One, we die for The One.

6/27/13 2:56:32 PM#215
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Benedikt
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Benedikt

only difference is that if you tell those 40% of gamers "ok, we will go with separate pvp and pve servers and with pve and pvp versions of skills and spells, so they can be balanced independently", i am pretty sure they will be absolutely ok with that, while if you say that to the ffa crowd, they will refuse. why? because they know that population of ffa servers will be a lot lower if there are also pve or consensual pvp servers.

Wrong... that was one of the options and they didnt pick it. They picked the one where there is no PvP and it wont effect the game when it comes to skill and class balance. All gamers, all, want what they want. I have been MMOing for 14+ years and I have played from PvP servers, RP servers, PvE games and I have found jurks and nice people in all games on all server and game types. It would be like stereotyping a race as being rude, nerds or crooks. Generalizations are just in bad taste.

EDIT: Just to clarify, skills that have different values in PvP and PvE still have been shown to unbalance PvE classes and skills. Many said clearly in that thread and others they didnt even want that option.

you dont understand my point - take option to not having pvp at all off the table, then give them option i mentioned. they will be ok with that, ffa crowd will not.

ad edit: i am not saying different numbers, i am saying different versions - how does having separate skills only with same name and icon, one for pve, other for pvp unbalancing PVE?

Starts right at class design. They start designing classes that can have skill sets act different in PvP and PvE. Take a enchanter, how awesome would that class be if all mez spells lasted 2-5 seconds like most CC in PvP games. They are designed to control a crowd. How do you balance that set of skills without making them a new class or breaking the core of what they are. Same with a class like a druid, even with all spells balanced for PvP, they have so many tools they would be a god in PvP. So the core of what makes a class work in PvE can often not be balance for PvP when the design of the class is made for PvE. Now go tell the EQ fans they cant have Bards and Enchanters or Druids because the core design cant be balance for PvP. Sure you could shorten their CC times and make it so the AE CC limit the number of targets but what do you have left? Pure PvEers want a game designed from the ground up with nothing but PvE in mind, from teaming to solo.

you balance them with having extra short duration or extra high cost. is it easy to balance? no it isnt. is it harder to balance then pure pvp game which dont have all spells/skills just dealing damage? it about the same.

 

"Pure PvEers want a game designed from the ground up with nothing but PvE in mind, from teaming to solo."

yes - so do pure pvpers. of course, they would be crazy if they wanted something else.

  Grailer

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 830

6/27/13 2:56:55 PM#216

Where is the fun in fighting against someone who doesn't want to fight ?

 

Clearly the fun is in beating someone who was better than you .

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3466

6/27/13 3:07:16 PM#217
Originally posted by Benedikt
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Benedikt
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Benedikt

only difference is that if you tell those 40% of gamers "ok, we will go with separate pvp and pve servers and with pve and pvp versions of skills and spells, so they can be balanced independently", i am pretty sure they will be absolutely ok with that, while if you say that to the ffa crowd, they will refuse. why? because they know that population of ffa servers will be a lot lower if there are also pve or consensual pvp servers.

Wrong... that was one of the options and they didnt pick it. They picked the one where there is no PvP and it wont effect the game when it comes to skill and class balance. All gamers, all, want what they want. I have been MMOing for 14+ years and I have played from PvP servers, RP servers, PvE games and I have found jurks and nice people in all games on all server and game types. It would be like stereotyping a race as being rude, nerds or crooks. Generalizations are just in bad taste.

EDIT: Just to clarify, skills that have different values in PvP and PvE still have been shown to unbalance PvE classes and skills. Many said clearly in that thread and others they didnt even want that option.

you dont understand my point - take option to not having pvp at all off the table, then give them option i mentioned. they will be ok with that, ffa crowd will not.

ad edit: i am not saying different numbers, i am saying different versions - how does having separate skills only with same name and icon, one for pve, other for pvp unbalancing PVE?

Starts right at class design. They start designing classes that can have skill sets act different in PvP and PvE. Take a enchanter, how awesome would that class be if all mez spells lasted 2-5 seconds like most CC in PvP games. They are designed to control a crowd. How do you balance that set of skills without making them a new class or breaking the core of what they are. Same with a class like a druid, even with all spells balanced for PvP, they have so many tools they would be a god in PvP. So the core of what makes a class work in PvE can often not be balance for PvP when the design of the class is made for PvE. Now go tell the EQ fans they cant have Bards and Enchanters or Druids because the core design cant be balance for PvP. Sure you could shorten their CC times and make it so the AE CC limit the number of targets but what do you have left? Pure PvEers want a game designed from the ground up with nothing but PvE in mind, from teaming to solo.

you balance them with having extra short duration or extra high cost. is it easy to balance? no it isnt. is it harder to balance then pure pvp game which dont have all spells/skills just dealing damage? it about the same.

 

"Pure PvEers want a game designed from the ground up with nothing but PvE in mind, from teaming to solo."

yes - so do pure pvpers. of course, they would be crazy if they wanted something else.

Red: Why would any gamer want compromise in their game? 

Pink: Thats what I am saying... its hard to give PvEers all they want without breaking some toes. Same with PvPers, they have a list of things that make PvP fun. My point is SoE has no chance of making everyone happy. IMO I dont think they should try because if they do they water down the game. If they are going to have a PvE focused game, then make it what PvEers are looking for. If they are making a game for PvPers, then make that show in every part of the game. My self I hope for something like AA, DAoC, ESO, where PvP is on its own map and PvE has its own area. The impact on the PvE community will not be good but like I said above all gamers are picky and like what they like.

  quseio

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/07
Posts: 222

6/27/13 3:34:30 PM#218

No it's a win for you and an immersion breaker for me... the difference between us is that you want to play a "game" i want to experience a world. And when i click on you and click fireball and get a red message that says... "this player is not flagged for PvP" is an immersion breaker.

Your continued use of the "50" people quote even though its very very obvious that, just in WoW alone, there where thousand of people who prefered it just the way i do on forced PvP servers... means that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Im not even asking them to force PvP on people like you... im just asking that they keep you seperate on a different server with people who think like you. People who want to play massive multplayer but want to be able to control how the other players will affect them. Thats silly... 

I don't want to clash with you... i don't want you to decided when the fight between us will suit you... just as i don't want to be able to stop you from attacking me should you so choose. It's not realistic... "hey my PvP flag wasn't on" will not stop you from getting punched in the face at the bar and it shouldn't be so in, what is supposed to be, and immersive game experience

eq did not say not flagged it said they are protected by the gods or something so there fits in with the fantasy setting, and i dont want to deal with  people corpse camping and griefing low levels.l; i dont want to deal with them changeing my spells and skills for pvp either but, id be willing to  cause i know some people like pvp

\

OK how about this you can attack someone but you get hit from a bolt of lightening BAM crispy fried player killer ! and not immersion breaking!!!  i would accept that go ahead and try to force me to pvp then....

 

  ice-vortex

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 921

6/29/13 4:02:03 AM#219
Originally posted by Grailer

Where is the fun in fighting against someone who doesn't want to fight ?

 

Clearly the fun is in beating someone who was better than you .

If someone is playing a game that has PVP, they aren't against it. One of the key points of playing an MMORPG with PVP in it is the fact that you can be attacked at anytime without warning.

  DocBrody

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1481

6/29/13 4:34:51 AM#220

OK then, another artificial barrier carebear concept MMO to skip. Good to know.

The other 349 MMOs on the market catering to the same audience are not enough obviously.

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