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WildStar

WildStar 

General Discussion  » Will WildStar Have Good Gameplay? It Looks Like Its Been Done Before

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62 posts found
  Imperator101

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/12
Posts: 134

 
OP  6/22/13 5:06:13 PM#1
Judging from the videos, wildstar looks the same as any other MMO as there is a skill bar and you press which attack/power you want to use. The only difference is there is no point and click on the enemies and you just go up and attack them. Am I right about this? This is how the gameplay is? Seems similar to Guild Wars 2 then since GW2 did not have any point and click gameplay and you just went up to the enemy and attacked them without highlighting them first.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2625

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

6/22/13 5:10:21 PM#2
Correct there's no tab target combat.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Sho0terMcgavin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 318

6/22/13 5:21:27 PM#3
Originally posted by azzamasin
Correct there's no tab target combat.

But just to be clear, GW2 is still tab target combat.

  Zapzap

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/13
Posts: 203

6/22/13 6:55:53 PM#4

The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

  newbinator

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/05/04
Posts: 767

Waiting for CoreCraft...

6/22/13 7:53:36 PM#5
The combat feels different from most MMO's I've played, without trying to change things too drastically.
  steamtank

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/09
Posts: 390

6/22/13 8:55:53 PM#6
Originally posted by Zapzap

The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

^--------------- This guy!

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

6/23/13 3:18:23 AM#7
Originally posted by Zapzap

The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

Have you watched the raw gameplay footage from E3??  I haven't seen that much hand holding in an mmo to date - there are even huge arrows popping up on screen to guide you to your next quest objective, plus all the other general hand holding features that have become the norm.

Now maybe dungeons and raids will indeed be challenging, or certain battle elements.  But I'll tell ya, from watching that footage it sure didn't look like difficulty and challenge in your face.

  WahrHeit

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/06
Posts: 48

6/23/13 3:24:36 AM#8

I know....there is a lot of people hyped about this...but to me...its the same thing....

 

You got the skill warnings....like wow addons...

"Sandbox play like you want"....more like just classes...

Everything its just the same... i really hope its good but dunno...this is not a game i would prepurchase and bet on it :/

  Zapzap

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/13
Posts: 203

6/23/13 9:57:19 AM#9
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by Zapzap

The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

Have you watched the raw gameplay footage from E3??  I haven't seen that much hand holding in an mmo to date - there are even huge arrows popping up on screen to guide you to your next quest objective, plus all the other general hand holding features that have become the norm.

Now maybe dungeons and raids will indeed be challenging, or certain battle elements.  But I'll tell ya, from watching that footage it sure didn't look like difficulty and challenge in your face.

What quest directed game does not have quest tracking?  Your kicking a dead horse here to expect no quest tracking.

Your also off point here quest tracking has nothing to do with difficulty and is simply a quality of life issue. 

If you watch the released videos also notice how often these players die from poor play and not paying attention.  Quite a large amount. And at an extremely low level.  While it would be nice to see videos with better more attentive players there appears to be a large penalty included for poor play which is something we have not seen in the modern era of snoozefest easy games.  Now I will agree that Carbines claims  of difficulty and challenge should be approached with skepticism.  Until we play and see it we should always doubt it.  But the promise of difficulty and challenge is the big selling point for many people and what separates this game from the easy mode games of the last 5+ years.

  Volkmar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 2507

6/24/13 7:43:52 AM#10
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by Zapzap

The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

Have you watched the raw gameplay footage from E3??  I haven't seen that much hand holding in an mmo to date - there are even huge arrows popping up on screen to guide you to your next quest objective, plus all the other general hand holding features that have become the norm.

Now maybe dungeons and raids will indeed be challenging, or certain battle elements.  But I'll tell ya, from watching that footage it sure didn't look like difficulty and challenge in your face.

I did. I noticed how often they KEPT DYING!

When was the last time you saw level 6 characters (out of.... 50? 60?) dying so often because they are learning to play? Granted, I heard the controls were badly implement in E3, maybe they had a slow mouse... also had only limited time to play etc.

Would be interesting to compare raw Footage to... say, SWTOR and compare how often those guys were dying in comparison to Wildstar. My guess is you will find Wildstar's kept them dying more often.

Also World Boss! in a level 6 area! Yeeeee! Open PVP area! at level 20! Yeeee! enemies that STUN and ROOT you! at level 6! Yeeeee! Housing integrated in the game from get go! Yeeeeee!

Honestly, I said it before, but the arrows only appears when you click on a quest and stay on screen for only a few seconds. Not so intrusive as other systems we have seen like giant shaft of light from the sky or flashing objectives or shiny paths created in front of you.

Did not see any arrows or help in the jumping puzzles, did you? What other hand holding did you see beside the "!" on top of quest givers?

"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"

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  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 4560

6/24/13 7:51:11 AM#11

Telegraph overdrive.

Everything telegraphs - even trash mobs. Some may like this, I personally can't stand telegraphs.

When the majority of the combat mechanics is reduced to telegraphs, its just unnecessary.

Having them on some boss fights, OK... but all the time?

 

  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1593

6/24/13 8:02:09 AM#12
Originally posted by DMKano

Telegraph overdrive.

Everything telegraphs - even trash mobs. Some may like this, I personally can't stand telegraphs.

When the majority of the combat mechanics is reduced to telegraphs, its just unnecessary.

Having them on some boss fights, OK... but all the time?

 

If you want to base a games difficultly around a mechanic than you need to introduce that mechanic to players early and get them use to it over time not dump it on them for the first time in a boss fight.

Telegraphs don't bother me much and i really like the idea of blue friendly telegraphs for things like heals and buffs because it will add a lot to the dynamics of fights.  It will really force people to pay attention to not only their own DPS parse but also what everyone around them is doing as well.

I am curious how they are going to manage 40 people raids with all those red and blue telegraphs stacking around the field.   

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 4560

6/24/13 8:11:55 AM#13

The problem I have with telegraphs is that I end up looking at ground and watch telegraph patterns - I don't even notice the NPCs ore their animations after a while.

its like this 3D virtual world and all these awesome NPCs get reduced to a flat 2D game where you have to avoid the ground pattern.

You could replace all mobs with boxes and flatten the world, I probably wouldn't notice as all I am focusing on is the damn telegraph patterns.

Maybe its just me, but telegraphs take a lot away from actually looking at the combat animations and immersion.

 

  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1593

6/24/13 8:25:17 AM#14
Originally posted by DMKano

The problem I have with telegraphs is that I end up looking at ground and watch telegraph patterns - I don't even notice the NPCs ore their animations after a while.

its like this 3D virtual world and all these awesome NPCs get reduced to a flat 2D game where you have to avoid the ground pattern.

You could replace all mobs with boxes and flatten the world, I probably wouldn't notice as all I am focusing on is the damn telegraph patterns.

Maybe its just me, but telegraphs take a lot away from actually looking at the combat animations and immersion.

 

You do have a point, the problem with visual clues is that while they work great in single player games they only work in MMO's when they are very apparent because of how people stack up around the mob blocking your camera.

I can only think of three ways a mob can telegraph whats it about to do to players.

Big text messages which I think most people agree is less than ideal.

Casting animations which while probably the best solution only work for really large mobs with very visible animations.

Ground telegraphs, which while not as ideal as casting animations I think is the best compromise for a multi player game.

I have played MMO's with all three and I do believe that ground telegraphs despite there tendency to make you focus on the ground are the best system overall.  

As I said before however I do worry about telegraph overload with blue buffs and red attacks on larger encounters but I guess we will see how that plays out.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

6/29/13 5:31:16 AM#15
Originally posted by Zapzap
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by Zapzap

The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

Have you watched the raw gameplay footage from E3??  I haven't seen that much hand holding in an mmo to date - there are even huge arrows popping up on screen to guide you to your next quest objective, plus all the other general hand holding features that have become the norm.

Now maybe dungeons and raids will indeed be challenging, or certain battle elements.  But I'll tell ya, from watching that footage it sure didn't look like difficulty and challenge in your face.

What quest directed game does not have quest tracking?  Your kicking a dead horse here to expect no quest tracking.

There's a difference between "quest tracking" and a giant arrow flashing above your toon pointing you in the direction to go.  Not an arrow on your mini-map mind you, but big, bold and smack dab in the middle of your screen above your toon screaming "don't think at all just follow me, that's all you have to do just follow me."

Your also off point here quest tracking has nothing to do with difficulty and is simply a quality of life issue. 

If you watch the released videos also notice how often these players die from poor play and not paying attention.  Quite a large amount. And at an extremely low level.  While it would be nice to see videos with better more attentive players there appears to be a large penalty included for poor play which is something we have not seen in the modern era of snoozefest easy games.  Now I will agree that Carbines claims  of difficulty and challenge should be approached with skepticism.  Until we play and see it we should always doubt it.  But the promise of difficulty and challenge is the big selling point for many people and what separates this game from the easy mode games of the last 5+ years.

While I appreciate your attempt to convince me that there is no more hand holding in this game than any other mmo and it is indeed full of challenge, I regret to inform you I'm not a bit convinced.  I believe them when I hear their dungeons and raids will be very hard, but as far as overworld content - anytime there is that much handholding going on it's hard for me to take the term "difficult" seriously.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

6/29/13 5:37:40 AM#16
Originally posted by Volkmar
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by Zapzap

The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

Have you watched the raw gameplay footage from E3??  I haven't seen that much hand holding in an mmo to date - there are even huge arrows popping up on screen to guide you to your next quest objective, plus all the other general hand holding features that have become the norm.

Now maybe dungeons and raids will indeed be challenging, or certain battle elements.  But I'll tell ya, from watching that footage it sure didn't look like difficulty and challenge in your face.

I did. I noticed how often they KEPT DYING!

When was the last time you saw level 6 characters (out of.... 50? 60?) dying so often because they are learning to play? Granted, I heard the controls were badly implement in E3, maybe they had a slow mouse... also had only limited time to play etc

the leaked ESO beta video from a month or two ago actually.  And you know what everyone said?  He died that much because he didn't know what he was doing, not because the game is insanely hard.  Probably the exact same case with this.

Would be interesting to compare raw Footage to... say, SWTOR and compare how often those guys were dying in comparison to Wildstar. My guess is you will find Wildstar's kept them dying more often.

Also World Boss! in a level 6 area! Yeeeee! Open PVP area! at level 20! Yeeee! enemies that STUN and ROOT you! at level 6! Yeeeee! Housing integrated in the game from get go! Yeeeeee!

Honestly, I said it before, but the arrows only appears when you click on a quest and stay on screen for only a few seconds. Not so intrusive as other systems we have seen like giant shaft of light from the sky or flashing objectives or shiny paths created in front of you.

Did not see any arrows or help in the jumping puzzles, did you? What other hand holding did you see beside the "!" on top of quest givers?

I think you need to watch that video again.  Every time a quest updates that involves you moving to another area a giant arrow pops up over your head (not on your minimap) and points you in the right direction.

  Volkmar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 2507

6/29/13 11:30:40 AM#17
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by Volkmar
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by Zapzap

The attraction for many in Wildstar is that it promises to bring back difficulty and challenge.  In a time where one can play every MMO while asleep and not worry Wildstar promises to be different.  CEO Gaffney said there are enough easy MMOs out there if you want one you can go play it.  He goes on to say they are making this game for veteran MMO players who want some of the challenge from older games.

Yes if you want to be technical what Wildstar and every MMO offers features that have been done before.  But what Wildstar is offering in terms of challenge and difficulty is not being done now.  Will it live up to those promises or we will we end up with another shallow game made for modern day adhd gamehoppers?  I guess we will see.

Have you watched the raw gameplay footage from E3??  I haven't seen that much hand holding in an mmo to date - there are even huge arrows popping up on screen to guide you to your next quest objective, plus all the other general hand holding features that have become the norm.

Now maybe dungeons and raids will indeed be challenging, or certain battle elements.  But I'll tell ya, from watching that footage it sure didn't look like difficulty and challenge in your face.


Did not see any arrows or help in the jumping puzzles, did you? What other hand holding did you see beside the "!" on top of quest givers?

I think you need to watch that video again.  Every time a quest updates that involves you moving to another area a giant arrow pops up over your head (not on your minimap) and points you in the right direction.

I meant beside the arrow that remain a few seconds and we have seen such things before. I'm not debating the arrow, I wanted to know what ELSE did you consider hand-holding.

"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"

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  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 3843

6/29/13 10:26:42 PM#18
They use telegraphs because its cheaper and easier to make than giving mobs quality animations.  Like how a boxer can anticipate his opponents next attack through his body language and not a giant red circle on the ground.
  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1356

6/29/13 10:35:24 PM#19
This is a linear quest hub game.  I'm not sure any type of combat can save that.  Although the combat does look incredibly dull.  If you are tired of the no freedom themepark design...I wouldn't expect much out of this game.
  Latronus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 718

PC is not political correctness, it means Political Cowardice!

6/29/13 10:41:52 PM#20
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by DMKano

Telegraph overdrive.

Everything telegraphs - even trash mobs. Some may like this, I personally can't stand telegraphs.

When the majority of the combat mechanics is reduced to telegraphs, its just unnecessary.

Having them on some boss fights, OK... but all the time?

 

If you want to base a games difficultly around a mechanic than you need to introduce that mechanic to players early and get them use to it over time not dump it on them for the first time in a boss fight.

Telegraphs don't bother me much and i really like the idea of blue friendly telegraphs for things like heals and buffs because it will add a lot to the dynamics of fights.  It will really force people to pay attention to not only their own DPS parse but also what everyone around them is doing as well.

I am curious how they are going to manage 40 people raids with all those red and blue telegraphs stacking around the field.   

Telegraphs are hand holding for casual and lazy gamers that don't want to have to learn how to recognize that they are about to get nailed.  It only takes a few brain cells to recognize that if the mob takes his weapon and brings it back over his head that he is about to swing it at you.  These days lazy gamers want to be told way ahead of time that they are about to be attacked.  Loose the telegraph all together and watch the crybabies rage quit in droves.

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