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EVE Online

EVE Online 

Jita (General)  » I hate EVE online

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231 posts found
  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/21/13 10:01:05 PM#121
Originally posted by Dihoru

Dear lord... a shooter, a decent third person shooter (modders made it better), a arguably decent expansion to a great game and a game which bored me to tears... so it would be accurate in stating that you're pulling stuff out your ass to prove your points because to claim you have any experience to draw on is like me saying I have an engineering degree. 

It's rather amusing in the end that you want to skip downtime (whatever that is because right now I am having trouble even figuring out what you mean anymore) and at the same time there's a Arcane Saga ad in the top corner flashing "SKIP THE GRIND! PLAY FOR FREE!"... perhaps you just need to gain some experience making MMOs to actually start seeing that you don't break what works in your MMO because you feel you're "right" in doing so without proof. And no being a game designer does not make you an expert to the degree you're insinuating in this thread... christ I at least explain with cold hard facts whenever I tell someone that E=m*c^2 isn't a correct formula ( it's missing a bit ), you base your arguments on "what I think" or "the majority backs me up on this!" but don't even provide evidence to support either of those two statement at all, all you do is say "well yeah, I know better because I work in the field" which is about as valid a statement as me telling you "yeah, I can build you a house because I know how to calculate every possible force applied to it in all seasons and calculate the entropy of the construction materials such that it outlasts humanity". You work in the field but you lack experience and it shows, badly.

My experience seems to be entirely distracting you.  The simple fact is that I'm describing a truth which is observable with no design experience whatsoever: players don't like having their time wasted.

You can understand this by imagining two games, otherwise identical, but one where travel takes 10x longer, and thinking through which of those games you would expect more players to enjoy.  Use EVE and multiply it's travel times by 10 if you'd like.

You can understand this by having played games firsthand and understood that in game A it felt like your time was being wasted compared with game B.

You can even understand this by observing other media treats travel, and how a movie won't show that 8-hour trans continental flight in realtime.  Instead we hear, "We leave for Rome tomorrow," and then see some establishing shots (airport stock footage, followed by Rome tourist attractions) and then 5-15 seconds later we're at the next scene.  

...and by imagining how entertaining that movie would be if it contained the entire 8-hour trip.

These are all easily-observed, easily-understood ways of showing how players will prefer entertainment that doesn't deliberately waste their time.  None of them require being a designer at all, so since that's distracting you just ignore it and focus on the truth of the matter.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/21/13 10:13:07 PM#122
Originally posted by Cecropia

Come on, man. Loktofeit nailed you. Not even you can twist your way out of this one ;)

I maintain my position that you can't stand the game (which is fair), you get bored quickly and stop playing, and you have never actually experienced "the meat and potatoes" of EVE. This is pretty transparent to me, and clearly I'm not alone.

Well it genuinely wasn't a backpedal, and the truth of the matter stands that most players (meaning most players) don't appreciate having their time wasted.

If you want to claim a small victory that I've unswervingly stated exactly what I meant, then well...I suppose I should celebrate with you!  The truth and original meaning has been clarified!

"Get bored quickly" is, of course, relative.  From the standpoint of most players (meaning most players), I have a rather large amount of patience for games.  But not inexhaustible, as EVE tested those limits.  In my incredibly long walk I found a few twigs and berries, decided it wasn't for me, and drove to my favorite steak restaurant for some meat and potatoes.

  Renoaku

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/07
Posts: 956

6/21/13 10:18:22 PM#123

EVE was once a good game, my Entire corp of about 20 players quit EVE though because of the odyssey patch.

1. EVE is supposed to be a sandbox so why restrict ships via wormhole entry, and in missions.

2. Scanning having to now change ships constantly by then someone has already got it its lame.

3. Changes to the UI I want a way to revert old UI I like it better.

4. Ice Mining changes my god what did CCP do.

This is a sandbox game or supposed to be Scripted Events make no sense at all except for worm holes.

I quit EVE, EVE/CCP lost all 3 of my accounts and my Corp Members + Their alts.

Good luck I am playing EVE  Dark Fall now the only true sandbox  I know now.

  Hazelle

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/11
Posts: 773

6/22/13 12:29:33 AM#124
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Cecropia

Come on, man. Loktofeit nailed you. Not even you can twist your way out of this one ;)

I maintain my position that you can't stand the game (which is fair), you get bored quickly and stop playing, and you have never actually experienced "the meat and potatoes" of EVE. This is pretty transparent to me, and clearly I'm not alone.

Well it genuinely wasn't a backpedal, and the truth of the matter stands that most players (meaning most players) don't appreciate having their time wasted.

If you want to claim a small victory that I've unswervingly stated exactly what I meant, then well...I suppose I should celebrate with you!  The truth and original meaning has been clarified!

"Get bored quickly" is, of course, relative.  From the standpoint of most players (meaning most players), I have a rather large amount of patience for games.  But not inexhaustible, as EVE tested those limits.  In my incredibly long walk I found a few twigs and berries, decided it wasn't for me, and drove to my favorite steak restaurant for some meat and potatoes.

That's a great analogy that explains the problem with eve.

When most people are hungry they often go to a restaurant.

When most people want exercise they often go for a walk.

When people want both of these things they go hunting, but that takes a lot of patience and knowledge.

Eve isn't for everyone, but those that do get it find much more than just twigs and berries.

  Adamai

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/06/10
Posts: 466

6/22/13 2:31:56 AM#125
Wow you guys travel through star gates ???????? Whats that even like... Loooooool.


I hear the same whines everyday from the same kind of players...

Just one thing to say. eve is a realism game in space in a universe. Now go get a clue wow fan bois.


Hahaha oh nooo im nit having fun trting to open this container or oh no flying to another region is a chore.... Noob is a relative term that applies to many different people but far more suited to themepark fans and kids. If you want insta travel then earn it. Ir learn how to do it.. Just like wow you can instantly travel to diferent places which i think is shit but ccp are so nice they catered for wow players too.
  craftseeker

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 627

6/22/13 2:36:19 AM#126
Just one thing to say. eve is a realism game in space in a universe. Now go get a clue wow fan bois.
 

yeah right, no real physics, no real sense of what a space ship might look like etc.

 

No EVE is a PvP Space Opera style game.  One of the best (if not the best) but realism????????

  calranthe

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/05
Posts: 361

6/22/13 2:48:19 AM#127

Never really classed any of my time in eve as wasted, travel in eve is part of the fun, I just do not think you "get" eve which is okay you have a lot of options for games out there.

 

  User Deleted
6/22/13 2:54:54 AM#128
Originally posted by Renoaku

EVE was once a good game, my Entire corp of about 20 players quit EVE though because of the odyssey patch.

1. EVE is supposed to be a sandbox so why restrict ships via wormhole entry, and in missions. - class 4 and above = no restrictions you can also find class 4 and above wormholes in high-sec just FYI.

2. Scanning having to now change ships constantly by then someone has already got it its lame. -my friend used to run a proteus with a deadspace fit for high sec exploring, he now runs a ishtar which can do combats and data sites and which is much cheaper a ship. Also I donno where you get your facts from, I also run high sec exploration and while there is competition for the 3/10s all others are pretty much scan em, pop over a few jumps to get your ship and do it.

3. Changes to the UI I want a way to revert old UI I like it better. -preference/opinion, including it amongst arguments is like me telling you EVE is da shit for having assault frigates.

4. Ice Mining changes my god what did CCP do. -blame it on the bots, the static always there infinite ice rocks made botting for profit easy, this way it makes them work for it much more.

This is a sandbox game or supposed to be Scripted Events make no sense at all except for worm holes. -aside from incursions name one instance of scripted events ( missions could also be considered but that's pushing it, things do not happen following a script but they do have a certain logic to it but even so I've had more than one ghost in the shell moment).

I quit EVE, EVE/CCP lost all 3 of my accounts and my Corp Members + Their alts.

Good luck I am playing EVE  Dark Fall now the only true sandbox  I know now. -I hate to sound mean but considering the above... I don't think we lost much by also considering you think Dark Fall is a better game...

 

  Wicoa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1613

6/23/13 12:14:26 AM#129

The only reason to hate the game comes down to human error and the biggest decision you have to make in EVE, your choice of corporation and style of play!

I have spent some days looking at potential corps and probably need to spend a week or two more. I dislike that some corps that seem well suited to me have a min. SP req. and right now I don't have a whole bunch of that. There is one corp I have singled out though that basically requires 2 months of sub before they consider you. So now I sit and wait training my character scoping out more potentials.

These kinds of reasons are the ones that should decide whether you hate the game, because EVE is a game where you need people around you. So I am going to make damn sure Im in a large corp with support networks that I can assist in.

 

 

  Rhevin

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/04
Posts: 542

Too weird to live, too rare to die...

6/23/13 8:17:39 AM#130

I just got an email offer to play for free for five days on my old account. Deciding if I want to play again. My biggest issue with the game was that its like having sex for the first time. You take all this time in preparing, make sure everything is prepped and ready to go, and when it comes to game time its over before you even knew it. I've spent hours trying to search for exploration sites only to have someone come along and blow me up in three seconds sending me back to 50 jumps away empty handed.

 

I think joining a corp with voice comms would make all the difference. The only corp I was ever in was the starter corp and EVE U (or are those the same?). I could see getting onto TS and coordinating attacks, talking about women, what beer we're drinking, and laughing it up would make the experience a whole lot better.

________________________
Two atoms walk out of a bar. The first exclaims, "Damn, I forgot my electrons." The other replies, "You sure?". The first explains, "Yea, I'm positive."

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12126

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

6/23/13 9:02:10 AM#131
Originally posted by Rhevin

I just got an email offer to play for free for five days on my old account. Deciding if I want to play again. My biggest issue with the game was that its like having sex for the first time. You take all this time in preparing, make sure everything is prepped and ready to go, and when it comes to game time its over before you even knew it. I've spent hours trying to search for exploration sites only to have someone come along and blow me up in three seconds sending me back to 50 jumps away empty handed.

I think joining a corp with voice comms would make all the difference. The only corp I was ever in was the starter corp and EVE U (or are those the same?). I could see getting onto TS and coordinating attacks, talking about women, what beer we're drinking, and laughing it up would make the experience a whole lot better.

If exploration is your thing, you'll find the new expansion makes it more accessible and easier to get into. As for a good corp, there's now a new corp finder tool that lets you search by playstyle, times online, content preference and several other factors.

EVE U is a player corp, not the starter NPC corp. If you hadn't joined them, I would definitely suggest checking them out.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  Rhevin

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/04
Posts: 542

Too weird to live, too rare to die...

6/23/13 10:02:15 AM#132
Yea, I was in both corps. Iunno if I want to rejoin again. I must have like twenty 14 day trials because by week one I'm bored and move on. I have on account that I kept running for about 6 six months over the span of two years. I'd play for two months and move on. Come back, play for two months, move on, etc. I really want to enjoy this game, but I just can't seem to stick with it. 

________________________
Two atoms walk out of a bar. The first exclaims, "Damn, I forgot my electrons." The other replies, "You sure?". The first explains, "Yea, I'm positive."

  Quazal.A

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/13
Posts: 420

6/23/13 10:45:57 AM#133
Originally posted by Axehilt

My experience seems to be entirely distracting you.  The simple fact is that I'm describing a truth which is observable with no design experience whatsoever: players don't like having their time wasted.

You can understand this by imagining two games, otherwise identical, but one where travel takes 10x longer, and thinking through which of those games you would expect more players to enjoy.  Use EVE and multiply it's travel times by 10 if you'd like.

You can understand this by having played games firsthand and understood that in game A it felt like your time was being wasted compared with game B.

You can even understand this by observing other media treats travel, and how a movie won't show that 8-hour trans continental flight in realtime.  Instead we hear, "We leave for Rome tomorrow," and then see some establishing shots (airport stock footage, followed by Rome tourist attractions) and then 5-15 seconds later we're at the next scene.  

...and by imagining how entertaining that movie would be if it contained the entire 8-hour trip.

These are all easily-observed, easily-understood ways of showing how players will prefer entertainment that doesn't deliberately waste their time.  None of them require being a designer at all, so since that's distracting you just ignore it and focus on the truth of the matter.

This bit

 

So unless i have lost ability to read English what your saying is that in movies they don't show the whole flight but merely a short clip start > short clip onboard > short clip finish.. say 1 minute on a 120min film?

Now it would seem to me a bit pointless to make a film and have the whole 8 hour jounrey on a film, the film would be 10hours would it not??

This is the same as EvE, EvE is not a game just for Xmas, its a game for life!, and what might surprise you but to fly LY would actually take longer than 0.33 secs  (noob ships fly 3ly per second) So eve does exactly the same as movies, it takes something that would take years to do, and condenses down, just like your train journey would take 8 hours and is done in 5seconds.

 

But, your assuming that people fly everywhere, the fact is i have one toon who in the last 3months has been in space for about 5minutes, now can you show me a game where travel required to play a game fulltime can be done in 3secs per day of game play (roughly 300secs in 3months game)

and yes i play this game all time, YOU DON'T HAVE TO FLY ANYWHERE TO PLAY EVE, in the end this comes down to single fact, you can do what/how you like in EvE, if you choose to be adventurer in eve flight is part of this game play, I build and as such 0 travel is required, everything is done remotely an the purchasing/moving of my goods is done by other toons, who surprisingly as courier spend all their time flying, their flight time is not wasted, its what they do to make isk....

My toon is progressing fine and he is not flying because i choose not, now you show me a game where 0 travel can level your toon up (levelling in the loose term is fine)

 

 

This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  cosy

Newshound

Joined: 9/15/04
Posts: 3306

EvE Rules #491 you should never, ever attack Russians on winter months

6/23/13 2:17:40 PM#134

i just want to point one that OP did not post again in this thread and you ppl already made pages of posts .....

PD:EvEisNot4WoWkids
BestSigEver :P

  Attend4455

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/13
Posts: 166

6/23/13 2:57:54 PM#135
Originally posted by cosy

i just want to point one that OP did not post again in this thread and you ppl already made pages of posts .....

good point :)

Looking at the Op's posting history I would say that he is not trolling. In one of this other posts he bemoans that he is getting owned in PvE so I guess it is probably true what he says that he doesn't really click with EvE.

OFC I appreciate that doing PvE content in EvE as a newish player with lacklustre skills can lead to ship losses but that wasn't how I read his previous post. I could be mistaken of course.

I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3282

6/23/13 3:01:11 PM#136
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Cecropia

Come on, man. Loktofeit nailed you. Not even you can twist your way out of this one ;)

I maintain my position that you can't stand the game (which is fair), you get bored quickly and stop playing, and you have never actually experienced "the meat and potatoes" of EVE. This is pretty transparent to me, and clearly I'm not alone.

Well it genuinely wasn't a backpedal, and the truth of the matter stands that most players (meaning most players) don't appreciate having their time wasted.

If you want to claim a small victory that I've unswervingly stated exactly what I meant, then well...I suppose I should celebrate with you!  The truth and original meaning has been clarified!

"Get bored quickly" is, of course, relative.  From the standpoint of most players (meaning most players), I have a rather large amount of patience for games.  But not inexhaustible, as EVE tested those limits.  In my incredibly long walk I found a few twigs and berries, decided it wasn't for me, and drove to my favorite steak restaurant for some meat and potatoes.

 Really, you have went from the position that most eve players agree with you (which was obviously a lie and called out swiftly) to your arguements are valid because no-one likes there time wasted - which is a play on words - everyone on the planet does not like their times wasted, this has nothing to do with the discussion.

As an 'Analyst Developer' (to play the career card) I personally understand games with slow travel and games with fast travel actually suit DIFFERENT AUDIENCES.  the Eve audience prefer slow travel, Others prefer fast - thats healthy design.  I also understand people who like slow travel are not ignorant fools, I appreciate they have their own valid experiences which will include fast travel gameplay. 

 

 

 

 

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/23/13 5:54:31 PM#137
Originally posted by Bladestrom

 Really, you have went from the position that most eve players agree with you (which was obviously a lie and called out swiftly) to your arguements are valid because no-one likes there time wasted - which is a play on words - everyone on the planet does not like their times wasted, this has nothing to do with the discussion.

As an 'Analyst Developer' (to play the career card) I personally understand games with slow travel and games with fast travel actually suit DIFFERENT AUDIENCES.  the Eve audience prefer slow travel, Others prefer fast - thats healthy design.  I also understand people who like slow travel are not ignorant fools, I appreciate they have their own valid experiences which will include fast travel gameplay.  

Again, you're going to have to quote something I said if you want to discuss my saying it.  Until then, you're fabricating a discussion out of thin air.  It's not appreciated.

I said most players (meaning most players) don't feel the gains are worth the cost when it comes to excessively time-consuming travel.

"Time wasted" isn't a play on words.  When someone feels the gains aren't worth the time investment, that's exactly how they're going to describe an activity: a waste of time.  Simple and straightforward.

Of course EVE suits a different audience.  That's implied by pointing out that most players (meaning most players) feel slow travel is time-wasting.  I never said EVE players couldn't or shouldn't enjoy the game they enjoy -- that would be ridiculous.

Nobody said EVE players are ignorant fools.  They simply have a greater capacity for spending their time where it lacks a direct benefit.

 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18996

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

6/23/13 6:05:26 PM#138
Originally posted by cosy

i just want to point one that OP did not post again in this thread and you ppl already made pages of posts .....

Pfft... as if threads are owned by their OP.   But welcome to the party and we people thank you people for your contribution.

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Malcanis

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3202

"A very special kind of stupidity"

6/24/13 3:00:55 AM#139
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Kravis

You want instant travel? You have that in EVE, clone jumping. Oh, you want your ships and gear to go with you, tough or hitch a ride in somebody's Orca. AFKable? You have not used AutoPilot?

Travel is a reality of EVE.  It's necessary for what EVE is.  Any isolated examples (I'm not too familiar with clone jumping) don't solve the fundamental problem that 99% of the time you're going to have to leg it the slow way, and it will be boring unless you find something else to do.

Autopilot also clearly isn't a solution, because as I pointed out: EVE travel feels AFKable, but it's not safe to actually AFK.

To be clear, I'm not trying to "solve" this problem for EVE.

I'm stating three simple things:

  • Travel in EVE is largely unavoidable.  While minor workarounds may occasionally exist, travel is an unavoidable reality of EVE.
  • Travel lacks decisions, so it lacks gameplay.  So it's required non-gameplay.  Again, there are some rare situations here where travel is eventful, but the majority of the time it's virtually AFKable (except don't, because the game is designed for that to be a Really Bad Move.)
  • And then my subjective opinion that other games provide just as much fun as EVE without such a large non-gameplay "tax" to pay.  (That's being a bit generous, as in the very best cases EVE's gameplay was significantly less fun than I've had in other games.)

All you're proving is that it's possible to play EVE in a way that's boring. And you're absolutely correct, it is.

Where people are disagreeing with you, and it's either going over your head or you're chosing to ignore it, is that it's not mandatory.

You find travel boring? OK move to Curse or Stain: travelling 2--3 systems is now an exercise in terror and danger.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/24/13 9:19:37 AM#140
Originally posted by Malcanis

All you're proving is that it's possible to play EVE in a way that's boring. And you're absolutely correct, it is.

Where people are disagreeing with you, and it's either going over your head or you're chosing to ignore it, is that it's not mandatory.

You find travel boring? OK move to Curse or Stain: travelling 2--3 systems is now an exercise in terror and danger.

But are the rewards worth it?    Is this the way you play EVE?  Or do you avoid it because the risk vs. reward is terrible?  Or perhaps it misses out on a lot of what makes EVE fun?

There are too many games which don't force me into an awkward decision between (A) not having my time deliberately wasted, or (B) experiencing the game's best features and playing the game optimally.  But in EVE my guess is you get one or the other, and that telling me I could go to those systems is a bit like telling a Call of Duty player, "Don't like guns?  Only use melee then!" which is mostly bad advice (especially to a newer player.)

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