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EVE Online

EVE Online 

Jita (General)  » I hate EVE online

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231 posts found
  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3266

6/20/13 5:46:57 PM#41
you were complaining about periods where you are forced to do nothing (I.e travelling)

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Kiljaedenas

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 466

To err is human, but to really f*ck things up you need a computer.

6/20/13 5:47:35 PM#42
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Lol like what games? The industry is still terrible right now and writled with broken sandboxes and WoW clones.  EVE is the only solid meaningful P2P game out there right now, bad players just wont see it.  

1) Almost every other game made (ever) has had a bigger focus on gameplay and less of a focus on downtime (travel, mining, etc) than EVE, so the list is rather large.

2) But to name a few:  WOW, TF2, LoL, Sim City, and Civilization.

3) These games achieve a similar (or superior) depth compared to EVE, and they do it without excessive empty timesinks (periods where there is little to no interaction with the game; where there is no gameplay.)

I numbered your points above for referencing to help me counter them.

1) I am a veteran of over two thousand games on every known gaming system. Trust me, Eve Online is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you said in this point. There are things I have seen and done in Eve that I didn't even know could be done in a videogame until they happened, and they were definitely awe-inspiring to me. You really have no clue what you're talking about.

2) Oh this is rich...

TF2 (Team Fortress 2) is a squad FPS arena shooter a la Counterstrike. What in gods name are you doing comparing that to ANY mmo of any kind? The game mechanics are so different between them that there is zero ground for comparison. If you were to compare TF2 to Dust 514, that would be different.

LoL (League of Legends) is a Warcraft 3 DotA clone. Pretty much the same argument as TF2, what are you doing comparing that to any MMO?

Sim City and Civilization...bird's-eye view single player city builders, one of which has no combat of any kind? Seriously? Why are you comparing those to an MMO? And besides, Eve's Nullsec Sovreignty mechanics give what I would consider an even more in-depth and complicated system than those two. You obviously never went to Nullsec.

WoW (World of Warcraft): As others have mentioned this is the only MMO you listed so the only one that could be adequately compared to Eve. Compared to WoW, Eve has more advanced one on one pvp, more advanced squad on squad PvP, fleet PvP at player numbers that would make WoW servers explode, a resource extraction and crafting system over ten times as deep and does not require craptons of grinding out equipment to gain skill in it, effectively unlimited "class" selection that is achieved simply by switching ships and equipment....so how exactly is WoW better? Even your original argument on travel times is rather invalid, WoW travel times can be pretty long too.

3). I think my answers to your previous two points pretty much completely nullifies your third one. It's extremely obvious you dug into very little of Eve's game mechanics, perhaps trying 20% of them at best.

Where's the any key?

  Kiljaedenas

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 466

To err is human, but to really f*ck things up you need a computer.

6/20/13 5:48:54 PM#43
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Kiljaedenas

If you're calling Eve an "empty" game experience, you really did practically nothing in it did you? Did you even join a player corp instead of staying in one of the NPC ones?

Well after many attempts to enjoy EVE, and having the game mechanics encourage me to do nothing (but not AFK,) I did join a guild.

And then I had players in my corp encourage me to do nothing (stay in the station until official patrols or be kicked from the corp, because we were at war and wanted to mitigate risk.)

It sealed the deal for sure.

They were saving your ass you dolt. You'd rather get blown up again and again? Do you have any idea how easy it is to hunt down someone in a corp you're at war with, if you know the right techniques? I do, because I used them many times in hisec wars. If we were at war and you came online while I was online:

-I would know the exact second you came online

-I would know what system you were in within about three minutes

-If you were undocked I would be shooting at you within about ten minutes of you coming online.

Where's the any key?

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3266

6/20/13 5:54:47 PM#44
It's shockIng and yet not surprising in this age of gaming trash that some people are incapable of seeing the meta game or using their imagination. If it doesn't offer a constant stream of exciting little 'progress rewards' that can be gained through a Miriad of mini games it cannot be a game.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3266

6/20/13 5:57:08 PM#45
Kili I'm an eve noob and that scares me ^^ :)

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  User Deleted
6/20/13 6:17:45 PM#46
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Kili I'm an eve noob and that scares me ^^ :)

-grins evilly- don't worry Bambi, I've been around for quite a while -his guns start tracking your ship-

 

Also Axe either has something lodged somewhere against EVE or is just a really poor game industry guy (he claimed in the past to be involved in the industry) as he compares high risk with low risk and then has the temerity to claim that people shouldn't have the option of choosing paths (mining might be boring but it is also, bar Hulkaggeddon or a freak chance, incredibly safe and with minimum effort on the part of the player also very lucrative but compare this to say 0.0 plex running in a Ishtar or Ishkur, running an illegal moon operation in 0.0, being a low sec explorer, engaging in factional warfare, engaging in proper 0.0 bloc warfare and whatnot it is either way less lucrative and exciting or at the very least less exciting... oh and don't even get me started on the crazy shit you can get up to in a wormhole, hint: omni-tank a cyclone with 70-80% resists, strap a t2 cheapo fit on it, fill your cargohold full of ammo, maybe leave 20-30 m3, get a probe launcher and a pair of probes and then just go into a C2 and see where the road takes you while running sites and dodging angry hole dwellers).

  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1501

6/20/13 6:18:48 PM#47
Originally posted by Kiljaedenas
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Chrisbox

Lol like what games? The industry is still terrible right now and writled with broken sandboxes and WoW clones.  EVE is the only solid meaningful P2P game out there right now, bad players just wont see it.  

1) Almost every other game made (ever) has had a bigger focus on gameplay and less of a focus on downtime (travel, mining, etc) than EVE, so the list is rather large.

2) But to name a few:  WOW, TF2, LoL, Sim City, and Civilization.

3) These games achieve a similar (or superior) depth compared to EVE, and they do it without excessive empty timesinks (periods where there is little to no interaction with the game; where there is no gameplay.)

I numbered your points above for referencing to help me counter them.

1) I am a veteran of over two thousand games on every known gaming system. Trust me, Eve Online is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you said in this point. There are things I have seen and done in Eve that I didn't even know could be done in a videogame until they happened, and they were definitely awe-inspiring to me. You really have no clue what you're talking about.

2) Oh this is rich...

TF2 (Team Fortress 2) is a squad FPS arena shooter a la Counterstrike. What in gods name are you doing comparing that to ANY mmo of any kind? The game mechanics are so different between them that there is zero ground for comparison. If you were to compare TF2 to Dust 514, that would be different.

LoL (League of Legends) is a Warcraft 3 DotA clone. Pretty much the same argument as TF2, what are you doing comparing that to any MMO?

Sim City and Civilization...bird's-eye view single player city builders, one of which has no combat of any kind? Seriously? Why are you comparing those to an MMO? And besides, Eve's Nullsec Sovreignty mechanics give what I would consider an even more in-depth and complicated system than those two. You obviously never went to Nullsec.

WoW (World of Warcraft): As others have mentioned this is the only MMO you listed so the only one that could be adequately compared to Eve. Compared to WoW, Eve has more advanced one on one pvp, more advanced squad on squad PvP, fleet PvP at player numbers that would make WoW servers explode, a resource extraction and crafting system over ten times as deep and does not require craptons of grinding out equipment to gain skill in it, effectively unlimited "class" selection that is achieved simply by switching ships and equipment....so how exactly is WoW better? Even your original argument on travel times is rather invalid, WoW travel times can be pretty long too.

3). I think my answers to your previous two points pretty much completely nullifies your third one. It's extremely obvious you dug into very little of Eve's game mechanics, perhaps trying 20% of them at best.

this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18993

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

6/20/13 6:56:01 PM#48
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Kyleran

Yes, travel is required and a very key component of the game play in EVE is figuring out and taking action on how to minimize and avoid it.

So many game mechanics are involved, a player can train skills to make his ships fly faster and farther, or train for specific ships that speed up travel, but then you have the decision to make, haul more cargo, at a slower rate, or less cargo at a faster rate? 

Or, do you take another approach, and get someone to carry your ship across long distances in their jump freighter or carrier?  Or do you make the journey yourself?  Cloaked ship?  Fast interceptor? Is it safe to harvest your data cores in a cheap light, fast ship, or do you take out the massively tanked battle cruiser to prevent from being ganked even if you are in the safer empire zones?

Do you dare risk much shorter journeys on routes that go through low sec space, or do you take the usually much longer and safer all empire roots.  And if you do decide to go the fast way, can you properly scout to make sure you survive the journey.

Even in mining, you have to figure out the best way to haul the ore back for processing without losing it or spending too much time in the effort.

Mission running, where do you locate your base of operations so to minimize your travel to far away systems, and if offered a mission of 8 hops away, is it possible/preferable to decline it in order to keep up with your efficiency.

When you hear the call that your allies systems are under attack, can you figure out a way to form up a 400 ship fleet and get it to the destination system before its too late?  Do you go all together, split your forces, send out the stealth brigade, call in for allies who are closer?

Sure, travel in itself isn't an "activity" that requires lots of button pushing like the combat of most MMO's out there today, but I'll disagree that travel (or avoidance thereof) isn't an important game play mechanic of a title such as EVE.

 

Those are interesting decisions, up until the point where you actually make the trip and it's 10 minutes of mind-numbing non-gameplay.

The core problem is that other games offer similarly interesting decisions, without the 10 minutes of boredom.

Sort of like golf  I suppose, you hit the ball, and then there's several minutes of boring walking, riding or waiting to hit the ball again.  Totally boring and can't see the appeal.

Oh wait, I like to play golf too. 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/20/13 8:46:17 PM#49
Originally posted by Bladestrom
you were complaining about periods where you are forced to do nothing (I.e travelling)

Right and the periods where you're forced to do nothing are a completely trivial percentage of the overall experience in Civilization.  For every 1-8 minutes you spend thinking and acting in a turn, you lose 1-6 seconds to the computer taking its turn.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

6/20/13 9:01:24 PM#50
Originally posted by Kyleran

Sort of like golf  I suppose, you hit the ball, and then there's several minutes of boring walking, riding or waiting to hit the ball again.  Totally boring and can't see the appeal.

Oh wait, I like to play golf too. 

You know, we used to stand around roleplaying for hours?

I wonder how many players could conceive of spending a year playing a game, without stabbing a single crittur--and enjoying the hell out of it.  Weeks of preparation and practice for an event where we just made a ten-minute performance, otherwise sat around watching the creativity of other bards--for several nights a year, every year?

:shrug: There's no end to the variety of ways people can enjoy (or not) their gaming. It's a really good thing we have so many games to choose between.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Electro057

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/09
Posts: 537

6/20/13 9:06:31 PM#51
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Kyleran

Sort of like golf  I suppose, you hit the ball, and then there's several minutes of boring walking, riding or waiting to hit the ball again.  Totally boring and can't see the appeal.

Oh wait, I like to play golf too. 

You know, we used to stand around roleplaying for hours?

I wonder how many players could conceive of spending a year playing a game, without stabbing a single crittur--and enjoying the hell out of it.  Weeks of preparation and practice for an event where we just made a ten-minute performance, otherwise sat around watching the creativity of other bards--for several nights a year, every year?

:shrug: There's no end to the variety of ways people can enjoy (or not) their gaming. It's a really good thing we have so many games to choose between.

 

I still play in private roleplay simulations and servers where we mostly just RP political intrigue, personal story arcs, events and the like...There are combat systems however the roleplay and character development, along with pursuit of faction goals behind the scenes takes precedence.

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  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/20/13 9:17:04 PM#52
Originally posted by Kiljaedenas

I numbered your points above for referencing to help me counter them.

1) I am a veteran of over two thousand games on every known gaming system. Trust me, Eve Online is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you said in this point. There are things I have seen and done in Eve that I didn't even know could be done in a videogame until they happened, and they were definitely awe-inspiring to me. You really have no clue what you're talking about.

2) Oh this is rich...

TF2 (Team Fortress 2) is a squad FPS arena shooter a la Counterstrike. What in gods name are you doing comparing that to ANY mmo of any kind? The game mechanics are so different between them that there is zero ground for comparison. If you were to compare TF2 to Dust 514, that would be different.

LoL (League of Legends) is a Warcraft 3 DotA clone. Pretty much the same argument as TF2, what are you doing comparing that to any MMO?

Sim City and Civilization...bird's-eye view single player city builders, one of which has no combat of any kind? Seriously? Why are you comparing those to an MMO? And besides, Eve's Nullsec Sovreignty mechanics give what I would consider an even more in-depth and complicated system than those two. You obviously never went to Nullsec.

WoW (World of Warcraft): As others have mentioned this is the only MMO you listed so the only one that could be adequately compared to Eve. Compared to WoW, Eve has more advanced one on one pvp, more advanced squad on squad PvP, fleet PvP at player numbers that would make WoW servers explode, a resource extraction and crafting system over ten times as deep and does not require craptons of grinding out equipment to gain skill in it, effectively unlimited "class" selection that is achieved simply by switching ships and equipment....so how exactly is WoW better? Even your original argument on travel times is rather invalid, WoW travel times can be pretty long too.

1. EVE doing things you couldn't imagine isn't really related to what I said, is it?   The simple fact at hand is that EVE forces more downtime upon players than most other games.  This causes it to have less of a focus on gameplay, and more on downtime.  Meanwhile, whether EVE does unique things or not, the game doesn't really provide much depth on its own that you couldn't find (or make) in another game.

2. If you're serious that you don't understand how different genres' game designs are relevant, then I suppose that will drag the conversation down a few levels.

First, I recommend reading A Theory of Fun by Koster, as it hits the basics dead-on.  It covers how the core of what makes most games fun is pattern mastery, and how this mastery triggers pleasure in our brains and makes up the core of fun games.  Different games may achieve this in different ways, but they're achieving the same exact reaction from the brain.

This is why it's completely relevant to compare games across genres, especially in strokes as broad as we're talking about (like whether or not it's a good idea for 30% of the player's time to be wasted with non-gameplay.)

But the original point remains that many games out there are as deep or deeper than EVE, but without the excessive downtimes associated with it.  They're basically EVE condensed into smaller, faster decisions (and that added time-pressure actually increases the challenge associated with performing well in the game.)

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/20/13 9:21:25 PM#53
Originally posted by Icewhite

You know, we used to stand around roleplaying for hours?

I wonder how many players could conceive of spending a year playing a game, without stabbing a single crittur--and enjoying the hell out of it.  Weeks of preparation and practice for an event where we just made a ten-minute performance, otherwise sat around watching the creativity of other bards--for several nights a year, every year?

:shrug: There's no end to the variety of ways people can enjoy (or not) their gaming. It's a really good thing we have so many games to choose between.

That's not really a game example though.  It's a brief performance with a lot of non-interactive entertainment (watching others) and socialization.

Golf was a better example, though at least in Golf you're getting in some walking and taking in some great sights that you rarely (if ever) have seen before.  Whereas in a game like EVE you're going to be retracing the same travel an awful lot and the scenery isn't all that great (the ship art is some of the best visual design in the industry, but traveling through space itself is rather dull.)

  Aconsar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/10
Posts: 268

6/20/13 9:32:02 PM#54
Originally posted by Axehilt

That's the least of the reasons EVE is unenjoyable, haha!  The massive chunk of time you spent traveling to that mission which involved no gameplay (just time-wasting) is the much bigger failing of the game.

Thankfully there are enough gameplay-filled games out there that we needn't waste out time with an empty game experience.

[mod edit]

 

 

Not saying the game doesn't need improvement, it certainly does and PvE/Missioning is definitely a major area.  The problem is most people fall into the "Mission or Mine" side of the PvE and miss out on a lot of the depth.  I feel a lot of that has to do with the risk of players and the potential PvP.  That's why majority of EVE players are in high security space.  But everyone has their place.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

6/20/13 10:16:00 PM#55
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Icewhite

You know, we used to stand around roleplaying for hours?

I wonder how many players could conceive of spending a year playing a game, without stabbing a single crittur--and enjoying the hell out of it.  Weeks of preparation and practice for an event where we just made a ten-minute performance, otherwise sat around watching the creativity of other bards--for several nights a year, every year?

:shrug: There's no end to the variety of ways people can enjoy (or not) their gaming. It's a really good thing we have so many games to choose between.

That's not really a game example though.  It's a brief performance with a lot of non-interactive entertainment (watching others) and socialization.

Golf was a better example, though at least in Golf you're getting in some walking and taking in some great sights that you rarely (if ever) have seen before.  Whereas in a game like EVE you're going to be retracing the same travel an awful lot and the scenery isn't all that great (the ship art is some of the best visual design in the industry, but traveling through space itself is rather dull.)

How about sex? Is the removal-of-clothing part of the process unenjoyable? Rush to get past that boring foreplay? 

"you're going to be retracing the same travel an awful lot and the scenery isn't all that great..."

We never tire of anal(ogies), do we?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/20/13 11:43:13 PM#56
Originally posted by Icewhite

How about sex? Is the removal-of-clothing part of the process unenjoyable? Rush to get past that boring foreplay? 

"you're going to be retracing the same travel an awful lot and the scenery isn't all that great..."

We never tire of anal(ogies), do we?

But we're discussing something which isn't fundamentally more amazing than something else.  So it's like if you had two girls to choose from: one where you just do fun things together (one of them being sex,) and another that makes you wait outside her apartment for 5 hours doing nothing before you do things together.

  Kravis

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/07
Posts: 184

6/21/13 12:33:24 AM#57


Originally posted by UnleadedRev
I want to like this game...

But, everytime I come back to it once or twice a year for a week out of a one month subscription, I just get frustrated.

Here is the latest fiasco....

I realize, I need to do the storyline/career missions to make more ISK and get to the Sisters of EVE...ok, I am doing good, so this looks like fun.

I get to the exploration agent and do the scanning data mission........arrrrgggghhhhh! Here is what happens to make me HATE EVE and not recommend it to anyone or stick with it:

1) I do as the mission says, I scan the freaking data containers from the anomoly I detect using my probes first and then my scanner. I then am asked to hack the container.

2) On the ones I hack successfully, the container blasts forth the loot I need to complete the mission, but no matter what I cannot open it and take loot in the 3 seconds it allows you before it disappears! WTF!?!?!

I gave up after several hours...I guess i am too dumb to figure out what the issue is and the Corp folks are no help....too busy talking about WoW to help. 

A WASTED $15 again.


Did you trying contacting CCP support or a GM, or file a bug report?

I played EVE for about 3 years, been on a break for about a year but I do miss it. The last time I created an ALT I was shocked at the numerous times in my first couple of days GM's would send tells asking how I was enjoying the game and if I needed any help. I don't know if they still do this but this is why I am asking if you even attempted to contact anyone through official channels to get help.

This back and forth on downtime is hilarious. Travel boring in EVE? Traveling in EVERY MMO is boring accept EVE. Don't believe me, spend a couple of weeks mining or looting wrecks, take this work and haul it through non-HiSec space, heck I used to sweat bullets going through HiSec! It can be stressful, and that is (to me at least) the fun of EVE, that constant threat is from other players and not something you can program into NPC's. These players are unpredictable and can be downright ruthless and the only place your safe is docked, sometimes not even that will save you. This type of gameplay is not for everyone. I think as more games try to rip off each other and the MMO market continues it's downward spiral of mediocrity with the same theme-park mechanics games like EVE will continue to grow from the frustrated masses.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12113

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

6/21/13 12:45:37 AM#58
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Icewhite

You know, we used to stand around roleplaying for hours?

I wonder how many players could conceive of spending a year playing a game, without stabbing a single crittur--and enjoying the hell out of it.  Weeks of preparation and practice for an event where we just made a ten-minute performance, otherwise sat around watching the creativity of other bards--for several nights a year, every year?

:shrug: There's no end to the variety of ways people can enjoy (or not) their gaming. It's a really good thing we have so many games to choose between.

That's not really a game example though.  It's a brief performance with a lot of non-interactive entertainment (watching others) and socialization.

Tagging this to post as a linked reply in the "Where's the roleplay?" "Where's the community?" threads. I think you guys just like the idea of interaction, because whenever anyone suggests anything outside of murdering stuff for xp and loot drops it's dismissed as irrelevant or unwanted.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  yunda

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/13
Posts: 5

6/21/13 12:52:49 AM#59
Well for me, you have to adjust yourself.. i felt the same way when I play Flyff or Dragona Online ahhaha
  gamefreak727

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 7

6/21/13 1:16:26 AM#60

      Here's my 2 cents, enjoy.

Before I start, i play eve, i play wow, and several steam games, have tried several mmo's and stuff, typical gamer maybe.

 

Now, just because there's more downtime doesnt automatically = a bad game. With Eve its like, the more downtime the more intense fun you have later when your pvping and sh!t.

 

But to do this, you need to have played for several months usually to have a good grasp of the game and a good foothold within the game. The eve learning curve graph is accurate to some degree...

 

Its not like u cant get pulled out of warp or warp right into a gate ambush, its not like you cant buy and sell shit on the market, its not like u cant explore the game through the market by looking at the ships and their intended uses then finding out the skills you need to train while warping to a gate.

 

The game has plenty of gameplay, just not the gameplay you like.

 

Sometimes i dont even play eve for a week or once even for 2 weeks just because it was taking so long for a skill to train lol. Remember the days when you HAD to learn all the learning skills before going into other skills or it was practically a waste of time?

 

There's so much information in eve to take in that if your experiencing any downtime so early in ur playtime your not playing eve the way it was intended.

 

After all it is a niche game, niche meaning a small amount of people play it relatively speaking. Maybe your not one off those people ya know?

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