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EVE Online

EVE Online 

Jita (General)  » I hate EVE online

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231 posts found
  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3862

6/20/13 3:44:51 AM#21
Eve is by the most complex and content rich games out there - because it is a true sandbox that enables player driven content. Yet again we have this I'll-informed assertion that a billion different things to do is satisfying, it's not it's a smoke screen. Much like a cheap buffet when you look at each individual food item they are all stale and boring and a bit bland, I.e dailies, gathering, um more dailies, broken instances that you aoe and rush through without speaking to anyone.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (10000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (600 runemaster/Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3862

6/20/13 3:49:02 AM#22
Re travelling, this is a long old complaint by those that think content is sitting at said buffet table for 99.9% of the time. You won't get it but just like in real life when a lot of people go on holiday they look forward to the journey. I suspect people who want fast travel would love instant teleports in real life too.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (10000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (600 runemaster/Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR

  RexGarvin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/10
Posts: 25

6/20/13 3:54:09 AM#23
Ive played EVE off/on from the day it started.  I have three accounts and buy  PLEX  with in game currency to pay for them.  Every three or four months I will play my accounts for a week or two and get bored out of my mind!! 
  Dranean

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/10
Posts: 79

6/20/13 3:58:20 AM#24
Originally posted by UnleadedRev

I want to like this game...

But, everytime I come back to it once or twice a year for a week out of a one month subscription, I just get frustrated.

Here is the latest fiasco....

I realize, I need to do the storyline/career missions to make more ISK and get to the Sisters of EVE...ok, I am doing good, so this looks like fun.

I get to the exploration agent and do the scanning data mission........arrrrgggghhhhh! Here is what happens to make me HATE EVE and not recommend it to anyone or stick with it:

1) I do as the mission says, I scan the freaking data containers from the anomoly I detect using my probes first and then my scanner. I then am asked to hack the container.

2) On the ones I hack successfully, the container blasts forth the loot I need to complete the mission, but no matter what I cannot open it and take loot in the 3 seconds it allows you before it disappears! WTF!?!?!

I gave up after several hours...I guess i am too dumb to figure out what the issue is and the Corp folks are no help....too busy talking about WoW to help. 

A WASTED $15 again.

 

 

I hate Eve-Online as well...

 

It takes a lot of my time

Sucks me back into the game every so often

Makes my wife whine when I am exploring the universe

Food is cold at the time I get to it

And many many more reasons...

 

And still... one of the best games out there

  Stinglock

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/30/07
Posts: 4

6/20/13 4:52:43 AM#25
Originally posted by UnleadedRev

I get to the exploration agent and do the scanning data mission........arrrrgggghhhhh! Here is what happens to make me HATE EVE and not recommend it to anyone or stick with it:

1) I do as the mission says, I scan the freaking data containers from the anomoly I detect using my probes first and then my scanner. I then am asked to hack the container.

2) On the ones I hack successfully, the container blasts forth the loot I need to complete the mission, but no matter what I cannot open it and take loot in the 3 seconds it allows you before it disappears! WTF!?!?!

I gave up after several hours...I guess i am too dumb to figure out what the issue is and the Corp folks are no help....too busy talking about WoW to help. 

 

I had the same problem last night doing the exploration mission. (Heck, I got stuck on those jumpgates on the first  mission, I had no idea they had to be used to progress the mission until I got into the first exploration quest.)

My problem was I wasn't using the tutorial scanner so I wasn't getting the reward, after changing this and hacking it twice I managed to see two proofs blast out. Open cargo dialog didn't become active like I expected.

 

EDIT: Oh damn, this account is ooolld.

 

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/20/13 5:17:05 AM#26
Originally posted by w407309 

The last paragraph, what your comparing is non-comparable, your comparison should be (using the only mmo you linked) is WoW travelling between say ogrimmar and barrens.

So comparing the travel between Wow (see above fro flight paths) and Eve - do you still contend that EvE is less engaging, once you click flight, you then you have no choice but to watch animations for 1-10minutes depending where you going in WoW? compared to worst case scenario of hitting warp to and then 1-3minutes later being at jump gate able to change your flight path, what your planning, WoW you have to sit, gawd help you if you click the wrong city you want to fly too

In terms of deep, you have focussed on teh one aspect of EvE the fact is if you want to go from A - B then yes you have to fly, but not one person is forced to fly, I have a toon who is 5years old (in october) and in all that time  has flown 7 jumps

He sits in station, trades, chats to players, and makes me craptons of money... So you see you dont need to fly, and whilst you fly if you choose to do nothing with your time, then your the one with the timesink not the game

The game does not force you to do nothing whilst you fly, you CHOOSE to do nothing, dont hate the game hate the player

Well if we want to clean up the comparison we'd divide those 10 minutes into the actual gameplay players are likely to engage with in a session (as a percentage of the whole.)  So maybe you spend 1 minute (10%) of the WOW 10 minutes traveling between Barrens and Orgrimmar, because an average WOW session only involves maybe 10% traveling.  Whereas in EVE you'd be looking at more like 5 minutes spent traveling.  5 minutes spent doing basically nothing.  You would AFK those travel minutes if it wasn't for the fact that the game punishes you for AFKing an activity you wish you could AFK.

In terms of depth, travel isn't deep at all in EVE (although it enables a certain sort of depth for the PVP aspect of the game.)  EVE's depth must come from other sources.  The orbit/tracking bit of the game was the only thing that struck me as having some potential depth, but in the PVE missions I was running it was entirely inconsequential and there was no reward for playing skillfully only for taking the relatively safe bet and farming the crap out of missions which were boring as a result of their low skill challenge.

Which characterizes most of my criticism of EVE's "depth" really: that because it's a game of risk management most of your gameplay tends to be devoid of truly interesting decisions because everything is already predetermined upfront.  So the act of playing it isn't an act of skillfully determining a victor mid-battle, but simply resolving a foregone conclusion.  It's like if you tried to make a war film about a bunch of marines slaughtering a defenseless village: it just doesn't make for good entertainment.  95% and probably more EVE battles are that way: one side is the hapless murdered side, and the battle is so one-sided as to not be interesting.

And no, travel is not a choice in EVE.  It's fundamental to the type of game EVE is!  EVE is not a travel-optional game by any stretch.  It's not like GW2 where once you do the interesting travel (first-time exploration) you can skip it in the future (instant fast travel.)  Travel is required in EVE.  There are some valid arguments to be had regarding EVE's depth, but let's not stray into the realm of fantasy and pretend travel is something you choose to do -- it's forced upon you.

  Yalexy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1045

6/20/13 6:31:14 AM#27

I can only laugh at you, if you think that travelling takes up too much time in EvE for doing PvE...

1. talk to agent
2. fly to the adjacent system
3. warp to mission-beacon

This takes some 3 minutes, before you engage in a combat-mission that lasts for 30 minutes and you're required to interact with the game atleast six times (talk to agent -> accept mission -> undock -> warp to gate -> jump through gate -> warp to mission).

So you're really trying to say that these 3 minutes of non-automated travel is too long compared to the 30 minutes of constantly killing targets?

After those 30 minutes of a killing-spree you'll need another 5-10 minutes to loot and salvage all the wrecks, and this requires alot of interaction aswell.

Flying back to the agent to get another mission then takes another three minutes.

So we're talking about 45 minutes for a single LvL4 combat-mission here, were you're basically looking at 40 minutes of constant interaction vs 5 minutes of semi-automated travelling.... BOOOHOOOO. Have a cookie and a papertowel.

EDIT: Sure the PvE in EvE isn't really that interesting, but if you've expected it to be, then you've not informed yourself enough about the game upfront. EvE is all about PvP and PvE is only a second thought to drive the economy.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3862

6/20/13 1:24:05 PM#28
Axe you only quantify content as things that has physical behaviour, you are failing to realise (indeed its a symptom of the themepark disease) that intellectual gameplay is a real thing, just like chess, civ, board games like mage knights, a lot of the satisfaction comes from thinking and planning. Not every game on the planet has to be a trough of shallow gaming titbits that you constantly feast on.

Again:

Eve online
Civ
Mage knights board game

All amazing games with super complex content and yet lots of thinking time where you physically do nothing.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (10000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (600 runemaster/Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR

  JVasquez

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 20

6/20/13 1:46:08 PM#29

Anyone who thinks there is more downtime in any game other then WoW is mistaken.

How long do you wait to get people together to do a raid? How long does it take to do a raid? How long do you sit there waiting for people after the group wipes on a raid?

WoW is the king/queen of downtime. Anytime you get a game that you need more then just a couple of people to do stuff it increases the amount of time waiting for people. Then take the amount of children with ADD that play WoW and it turns into hours and hours just to complete some content. Then if you happen to not complete it, you have to go through all the downtime another day trying to get the group back together.

WoW also likes to block people from doing content only more then once a week. SO after you complete everything for the week the game is nothing but downtime.

Anyone who doesn't see this has a huge hate for the game they are saying has more downtime or the are too attached to WoW that it can do no wrong.

 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19501

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

6/20/13 2:11:58 PM#30
Originally posted by Axehilt
 

And no, travel is not a choice in EVE.  It's fundamental to the type of game EVE is!  EVE is not a travel-optional game by any stretch.  It's not like GW2 where once you do the interesting travel (first-time exploration) you can skip it in the future (instant fast travel.)  Travel is required in EVE.  There are some valid arguments to be had regarding EVE's depth, but let's not stray into the realm of fantasy and pretend travel is something you choose to do -- it's forced upon you.

Yes, travel is required and a very key component of the game play in EVE is figuring out and taking action on how to minimize and avoid it.

So many game mechanics are involved, a player can train skills to make his ships fly faster and farther, or train for specific ships that speed up travel, but then you have the decision to make, haul more cargo, at a slower rate, or less cargo at a faster rate? 

Or, do you take another approach, and get someone to carry your ship across long distances in their jump freighter or carrier?  Or do you make the journey yourself?  Cloaked ship?  Fast interceptor? Is it safe to harvest your data cores in a cheap light, fast ship, or do you take out the massively tanked battle cruiser to prevent from being ganked even if you are in the safer empire zones?

Do you dare risk much shorter journeys on routes that go through low sec space, or do you take the usually much longer and safer all empire roots.  And if you do decide to go the fast way, can you properly scout to make sure you survive the journey.

Even in mining, you have to figure out the best way to haul the ore back for processing without losing it or spending too much time in the effort.

Mission running, where do you locate your base of operations so to minimize your travel to far away systems, and if offered a mission of 8 hops away, is it possible/preferable to decline it in order to keep up with your efficiency.

When you hear the call that your allies systems are under attack, can you figure out a way to form up a 400 ship fleet and get it to the destination system before its too late?  Do you go all together, split your forces, send out the stealth brigade, call in for allies who are closer?

Sure, travel in itself isn't an "activity" that requires lots of button pushing like the combat of most MMO's out there today, but I'll disagree that travel (or avoidance thereof) isn't an important game play mechanic of a title such as EVE.

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
"People can do with their money what they want. But... that doesn't make it smart" - COORS
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  uplink4242

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 239

6/20/13 5:33:58 PM#31
ITT: I ragequit eve because I can't finish the tutorial and it takes too long to travel. Well guess what, the sole fact that travelling is a time and risk investment is what fuels a big part of the game's economy and player engagement. But you wouldn't know that if you're used to teleporting everywhere. If you actually bothered to understand how a game even works before jumping to conclusions, or flawed comparisons with games that have little to nothing to do with it you would maybe realize how it's supposed to be played.
  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1903

6/20/13 5:54:39 PM#32
When I left EVE the last time and was asked why I was leaving...I said...."I WOULD RATHER HAVE A ROOT CANAL WITHOUT ANESTHESIA THAN SUBJEcT MYSELF TO ANOTHER MINUTE OF EVE".
  uplink4242

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/15/08
Posts: 239

6/20/13 5:58:11 PM#33

and yet you have nothing better to do than come to these forums whining about it. There seems to be more ragequit threads about this game than actual discussion about it around here, sadly. 

I'm sure that contributed to our discussion greatly.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/20/13 6:26:51 PM#34
Originally posted by Yalexy

I can only laugh at you, if you think that travelling takes up too much time in EvE for doing PvE...

1. talk to agent
2. fly to the adjacent system
3. warp to mission-beacon
.

If you don't think travel time in EVE takes up at least double what it takes in a typical MMORPG (as a portion of overall playtime), you're just outright lying.  You pretty much have to go entirely out of your way to stay in the same place for it to be otherwise.

  Kiljaedenas

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 468

To err is human, but to really f*ck things up you need a computer.

6/20/13 6:27:43 PM#35
Originally posted by Axehilt

That's the least of the reasons EVE is unenjoyable, haha!  The massive chunk of time you spent traveling to that mission which involved no gameplay (just time-wasting) is the much bigger failing of the game.

Thankfully there are enough gameplay-filled games out there that we needn't waste out time with an empty game experience.

What are you talking about, "massive" chunk of time traveling to the mission? With the exception of the Epic Arc missions, the regular combat missions have very miniscule travel times to and from the site compared to the time you spend fighting. It's very comparable to the travel times from a mission agent in a city giving a monster-hunt mission to the site where those monsters are in quite a few MMOs that I've played.

If you're calling Eve an "empty" game experience, you really did practically nothing in it did you? Did you even join a player corp instead of staying in one of the NPC ones?

Where's the any key?

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/20/13 6:29:06 PM#36
Originally posted by Kyleran

Yes, travel is required and a very key component of the game play in EVE is figuring out and taking action on how to minimize and avoid it.

So many game mechanics are involved, a player can train skills to make his ships fly faster and farther, or train for specific ships that speed up travel, but then you have the decision to make, haul more cargo, at a slower rate, or less cargo at a faster rate? 

Or, do you take another approach, and get someone to carry your ship across long distances in their jump freighter or carrier?  Or do you make the journey yourself?  Cloaked ship?  Fast interceptor? Is it safe to harvest your data cores in a cheap light, fast ship, or do you take out the massively tanked battle cruiser to prevent from being ganked even if you are in the safer empire zones?

Do you dare risk much shorter journeys on routes that go through low sec space, or do you take the usually much longer and safer all empire roots.  And if you do decide to go the fast way, can you properly scout to make sure you survive the journey.

Even in mining, you have to figure out the best way to haul the ore back for processing without losing it or spending too much time in the effort.

Mission running, where do you locate your base of operations so to minimize your travel to far away systems, and if offered a mission of 8 hops away, is it possible/preferable to decline it in order to keep up with your efficiency.

When you hear the call that your allies systems are under attack, can you figure out a way to form up a 400 ship fleet and get it to the destination system before its too late?  Do you go all together, split your forces, send out the stealth brigade, call in for allies who are closer?

Sure, travel in itself isn't an "activity" that requires lots of button pushing like the combat of most MMO's out there today, but I'll disagree that travel (or avoidance thereof) isn't an important game play mechanic of a title such as EVE.

 

Those are interesting decisions, up until the point where you actually make the trip and it's 10 minutes of mind-numbing non-gameplay.

The core problem is that other games offer similarly interesting decisions, without the 10 minutes of boredom.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3862

6/20/13 6:36:35 PM#37
'interesting decisions' it's something a manager would say or developers who understand widgets but don't understand uix experience design- not a game playes As I said earlier civ/chess/board games like mage knights all have periods of sustained inactivity where you do nothing but think, and yet they are considered right up there with the best gaming experiences of all time.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (10000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (600 runemaster/Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1669

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

6/20/13 6:41:56 PM#38

http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/jowen/SOE_Epic_Arc_guide_by_Jowen_Datloran_v0.95.pdf  just use this and as others have said u can ignore the soe arc and the scanning tutorials if u want and just get on with the game, or you can skip the scanning tutorial and just do the soe arc.  Also if you're having trouble scanning remember to check the youtube/video tutorials and since u payed I'd suggest you try a bit of everything before you quit as the pve missions can be a bit boring and possibly other aspects of eve will appeal to you, you may aswell get your moneys worth.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/20/13 6:42:29 PM#39
Originally posted by Kiljaedenas

If you're calling Eve an "empty" game experience, you really did practically nothing in it did you? Did you even join a player corp instead of staying in one of the NPC ones?

Well after many attempts to enjoy EVE, and having the game mechanics encourage me to do nothing (but not AFK,) I did join a guild.

And then I had players in my corp encourage me to do nothing (stay in the station until official patrols or be kicked from the corp, because we were at war and wanted to mitigate risk.)

It sealed the deal for sure.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/20/13 6:44:15 PM#40
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Axe you only quantify content as things that has physical behaviour, you are failing to realise (indeed its a symptom of the themepark disease) that intellectual gameplay is a real thing, just like chess, civ, board games like mage knights, a lot of the satisfaction comes from thinking and planning. Not every game on the planet has to be a trough of shallow gaming titbits that you constantly feast on.

Again:

Eve online
Civ
Mage knights board game

All amazing games with super complex content and yet lots of thinking time where you physically do nothing.

As I've pointed out to several others, many games provide this sort of planning without excessive travel times.

Your list of other examples is perfect for making this point actually. 

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