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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Does CU really stand a chance?

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59 posts found
  Reklaw

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

 
OP  9/26/13 2:06:27 AM#21

FlyinDutchman87: I am not one of those people who might  say "I told you so" in 2016.

I actually hope I can say I was wrong in 2016

As said I truly hope the game will deliver towards the specific niche (Thanks Zinzan) Just personaly have my doubts.

 

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1804

9/26/13 5:04:23 AM#22

I hope CU will succeed. We don't have too many PvP focused games that aren't full loot (which tends to lead into a very degenerate player base). TESO will have "RvR" as a side dish, much like GW2 does, but the game and its development will forever revolve around the masses of PvE players, just like GW2 does.

I am very interested in trying CU myself, but I fear it will have an archaic combat system with tab targeting and hotkey spam. I just can't stand those any more, after being spoiled by TERA's and GW2's active combat systems (followed probably by EQNext and TESO next year).

 

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5335

9/26/13 5:25:34 AM#23
Originally posted by tom_gore

I hope CU will succeed. We don't have too many PvP focused games that aren't full loot (which tends to lead into a very degenerate player base). TESO will have "RvR" as a side dish, much like GW2 does, but the game and its development will forever revolve around the masses of PvE players, just like GW2 does.

I am very interested in trying CU myself, but I fear it will have an archaic combat system with tab targeting and hotkey spam. I just can't stand those any more, after being spoiled by TERA's and GW2's active combat systems (followed probably by EQNext and TESO next year).

 

That actually raises a very good point, because the games focus is combat, it is a PVP focused game after all, then the combat system will be the main part of the game. I agree that tab targeting in this case will not be acceptable. It does raise the hit detection factor but if it can be done in games like Planetside2 with huge amounts of players present then there isnt really any reason that they can't do it in a fantasy game, where ranges are usually much much closer

Having said that, what i don't want to see in a R v R game is ridiculously low player numbers on the battlefield, 8v8 16 v 16 or even 32 v 32 might be okay for arena pvp but its not even close for true R v R combat, i want to see battle lines, i want to see hundreds of players vying for tactical advantage in a grand melee..

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10880

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

9/26/13 5:41:52 AM#24

Of course the game has a chance. Their biggest hurdle was getting enough money through Kickstarter to build. Their next biggest hurdle will be getting a game out the door. If they can get the game out the door in a playable state, they'll be set. I can't imagine there not being enough people to play the game, especially when four million dollars of the development money isn't coming from investors, but from Kickstarer and that Jacobs guy.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19242

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/26/13 5:57:22 AM#25

Funny thing about PVP/RVR games, on one hand you have a group who want them to have "massive" battles, able to pit 1000 vs 1000.

Yet on the other hand, people complain when the combat becomes too zergy, and I imagine if you ever were in a huge fight like 400 vs 400, it would be absolute chaos on the battlefield.   (I've been in them in EVE, and they are very controlled affairs and still a challenge to fully comprehend and coordinate)

In following the GW2 forums, people make suggestions for the developers to make the RVR world bigger and break the content down so there are smaller objectives to break up the zerg.  Contrast that then with requests to not make the RVR world too large, because it spreads the player base too thin and makes fights hard to come by.

Seems like a tall order for any developer to try and deliver, and it will interesting to see how CU decides to present itself, because I don't believe it's possible to design in a manner to solve all of the above, something has to suffer.

For me what really matters isn't the size of the fight, but what types of rewards I'll get, for participating, for winning, for losing.  Will I gain experience (obviously yes, only way to do so), special abilities a la DAOC that I can chose in addition to core class skills, (I assume we will), some sort of ranking system/names (again, a la DAOC) and of course......loot.

Oh well, I'm in for one of the earlier tiers so I should get a pretty good idea  how it shapes up.

 

 

 

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1804

9/26/13 6:26:42 AM#26

Kyleran, it obviously depends on how the developer wants the game to be.

Do they want it to be about strategy? Then they need to have incentive to spread your forces in several groups, defend key points and make the areas big enough / troops slow enough that there will be time to react to enemy troop movements and a need for scouts. This all obviously comes at a cost of sometimes having to take some time to find a fight.

Or, do they want it to be about fighting? Then they just need to give the players an ability to get into and back into a fight as fast as possible, usually at the cost of any real strategic elements. Victory or loss will be trivial and the point is to have some fun with hack&slash.

 

By what we know about CU today, it seems they will try to steer towards a more strategic approach. Which is good, as we do already have games that offer that "fifteen minutes of fun" without consequences.

 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19242

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/26/13 7:09:33 AM#27
Originally posted by tom_gore

Kyleran, it obviously depends on how the developer wants the game to be.

Do they want it to be about strategy? Then they need to have incentive to spread your forces in several groups, defend key points and make the areas big enough / troops slow enough that there will be time to react to enemy troop movements and a need for scouts. This all obviously comes at a cost of sometimes having to take some time to find a fight.

Or, do they want it to be about fighting? Then they just need to give the players an ability to get into and back into a fight as fast as possible, usually at the cost of any real strategic elements. Victory or loss will be trivial and the point is to have some fun with hack&slash.

 

By what we know about CU today, it seems they will try to steer towards a more strategic approach. Which is good, as we do already have games that offer that "fifteen minutes of fun" without consequences.

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, am currently playing on a DAOC freeshard set to the 2003 rule set, and with the smaller population I really enjoy the strategy behind the fights.  Rare is the day that more than 2 groups (8 man) on a side are in a battle, except for relic keep takes which can get a bit zergy with maybe 60-100 people per side. (happens only a few times a month)

Whether or not my Theuri manages to get pets on all the casters to disrupt them, or my Skald can charge the team in past the mezz/stuns/roots so we can engage, or our Sorc can mezz or our healers can keep us alive despite all damage makes a difference and it's quite easy to see/know when your specific contribution not only mattered, but maybe turned the tide of the fight.

Unfortunately, the zerg isn't very fun to me, and I always tended to try and set up smaller fights out on the fringes in order to enjoy it more.

Should be fun to see what they come up with which is one reason why I'm looking forward to this title despite not being the most ardent PVPer.

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Mandible

Novice Member

Joined: 9/04/04
Posts: 13

10/21/13 4:16:30 PM#28

I have one word for you "Warhammer"

my only real issue with Warhammer was the combat.... it felt terrible and i never could stay with the game because of it. 

 

Another thought; people said EVE was a niche game, but now its the 2nd largest western MMO by subscribers 500k ish and the game is 10 years old! If CCP can do it in space, someone can make it happen in a fantasy setting. 

 

 

 

  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/21/13 5:26:37 PM#29
The best rvr systems promote both big battles and smaller tactical strike teams.

E.g. daoc, planetside 1 & 2, war after about 6 months

The worst ones just work as gear farming spots for pveers e.g. tsw, rift, swtor
  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/21/13 5:28:14 PM#30
By subscribers yeah

Concurrent players both gw2, ps2 & even swtor have more.
  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1880

10/21/13 5:33:36 PM#31

OP

Knowing who's in charge should answer the question you asked.

Hint...he directed WAR and DAOC

  Nirrtix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 180

10/24/13 5:41:50 PM#32

Does it stand a chance? The original DAOC is still going and most players in that game and other MMO games that have PVP are waiting for this game. DAOC had the best PVP system ever for a fantasy MMO.

My only mistake as far as Camelot Unchained was not getting on the badwagon early enough to pay to get into the BETA. I hope there is plenty of room for those who did not Kickstart to get into the BETA so i can.

This game may even be a WoW killer. Many in WoW are waiting for something fresh and that has real PvP. Most MMO's do not have good if any PvP. This game IS pvp.

Nirrtix
ALPHAs:
-Pantheon
-Shroud of the Avatar
-Camelot Unchained
BETAs:
-World of Warcraft
-City of Heroes
-Star Wars Galaxies
-Saga of Ryzom
-Homeworld
-Starcraft II
-Warcraft III
-Hearthstone
-Star Wars The Old Republic
-Vanguard Saga of Heroes

  Nirrtix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 180

10/24/13 5:43:45 PM#33
Originally posted by tom_gore

I hope CU will succeed. We don't have too many PvP focused games that aren't full loot (which tends to lead into a very degenerate player base). TESO will have "RvR" as a side dish, much like GW2 does, but the game and its development will forever revolve around the masses of PvE players, just like GW2 does.

I am very interested in trying CU myself, but I fear it will have an archaic combat system with tab targeting and hotkey spam. I just can't stand those any more, after being spoiled by TERA's and GW2's active combat systems (followed probably by EQNext and TESO next year).

 

As much as I like Elder Scrolls lore I am avoiding Elder Scrolls online du to the simple fact it is Multiplatform That will give others a clear advantage in PvP and make the game suck.

Nirrtix
ALPHAs:
-Pantheon
-Shroud of the Avatar
-Camelot Unchained
BETAs:
-World of Warcraft
-City of Heroes
-Star Wars Galaxies
-Saga of Ryzom
-Homeworld
-Starcraft II
-Warcraft III
-Hearthstone
-Star Wars The Old Republic
-Vanguard Saga of Heroes

  Nirrtix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 180

10/24/13 5:46:21 PM#34
Originally posted by DMKano

It is impossible to know, if somebody releases a new type of MMO that totally revolutionizes gameplay in way that we have never seen before it would make traditional MMORPGs seem archaic and a lot less desirable.

CU is based on the current MMORPG systems, classes, combat involving HP/mana pools etc..

Can you imagine a MMORPG where combat didn't revolve around a concept of having a defined HP pool, and empty HP pool = dead player, every single game uses this old "math" system.

Yeah that would be a revolutionary system, eliminating pre-defined health and energy pools.

 

Bottom line it stands a chance unless something done much better comes out before CU launches.

How would you know for sure someone did that better before CU launches. There probably will not be many who are in BETA who have played this other game. Besides that many will play CU just because it is CU. EA made a HUGE mistake making Warhammer instead of DAOC 2.

Nirrtix
ALPHAs:
-Pantheon
-Shroud of the Avatar
-Camelot Unchained
BETAs:
-World of Warcraft
-City of Heroes
-Star Wars Galaxies
-Saga of Ryzom
-Homeworld
-Starcraft II
-Warcraft III
-Hearthstone
-Star Wars The Old Republic
-Vanguard Saga of Heroes

  Nirrtix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 180

10/24/13 5:51:13 PM#35
Originally posted by jtcgs

Depends on what you mean by stand a chance.

If you mean stand a chance at becoming popular with the MMO community? The answer is no.

If you mean stand a chance to win over its target small audience? The answer is maybe.

And its maybe because it couldn't even win over half the DaoC crowd which was split between it and TESO...then again, TESO lost quite a bit of support over the last 6 months so...better chance of doing it now, not because CU improved, but because TESO got worse.

You are forgetting though it may have won over half the died hard DAOC players who have invest tons of time in the game. It was no different in EQ1 when EQ2 came out. Some players are so invested in the game they do not want to leave.

The question is how many players who left DAOC plan to come to CU. I am one and I will gladly join the ranks in CU. I am one of the many who have been begging for years for EA to support this project. Instead they made Warhammer, which sucked.

Nirrtix
ALPHAs:
-Pantheon
-Shroud of the Avatar
-Camelot Unchained
BETAs:
-World of Warcraft
-City of Heroes
-Star Wars Galaxies
-Saga of Ryzom
-Homeworld
-Starcraft II
-Warcraft III
-Hearthstone
-Star Wars The Old Republic
-Vanguard Saga of Heroes

  Nirrtix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 180

10/24/13 5:54:25 PM#36
Originally posted by Arzhur

I remember when this was the topic of discussion for DOAC on the VN boards.

Small upstart game company couldn’t compete with EQ, AC or the upcoming WOW.

Well he did then and he will again, two words Mark Jacobs.

Yes this will be an old school, hard core game with limited appeal but enough appeal to make a profit and give us ol’e schoolers one hell of a ride.

Well said. This is what I have been looking for for years. No more carebear crap MMO's I want something hard where you feel like you accomplished something. That is one reason I keep returning to EvE, the only problem is unless you have played Eve forever, it jsut is not the same.

Nirrtix
ALPHAs:
-Pantheon
-Shroud of the Avatar
-Camelot Unchained
BETAs:
-World of Warcraft
-City of Heroes
-Star Wars Galaxies
-Saga of Ryzom
-Homeworld
-Starcraft II
-Warcraft III
-Hearthstone
-Star Wars The Old Republic
-Vanguard Saga of Heroes

  Hrimnir

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1146

10/24/13 6:01:21 PM#37

It absolutely stands a chance.  MMO's are not that expensive to maintain.  Many popular past MMO's maintain excellent profitability with 100-150k subscribers. I see no reason why CU won't be able to maintain that as long as they release a generally bug free MMO.

Since he isnt beholden to investors, he doesn't have to worry about making money hand over fist, so simply turning a profit is enough.  Since he is making this game to target a very specific core audience of gamers, these types are likely to stay subbed to games for years on end.

So, again, yes, very solid chance.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  DamonVile

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

10/24/13 6:02:42 PM#38

I am not a fan of this game and will never play it. I have 0 interest in it beyond what I see posted here from time to time....but I think it has good ideas for an mmo and if it can make them work it will do very well.

I doubt it will ever become huge but it doesn't need to be to be a good game.

  Speely

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

10/24/13 10:18:50 PM#39

It will be interesting to see what the MMO climate is like in 2015. This next wave of MMOs coming out will likely affect said climate, and aside from the big boys, there are a number of other ambitious games from smaller, independent devs targeting niches as well. CU will be born into this generation, for better or worse, and the ways in which it brands itself as a viable alternative to these things will play a big part in expanding the number beyond the backers.

I think it has a real chance to do so if CSE sticks to its guns and does not compromise in the face of potentially changing trends in the 2015 MMO market. Strength of vision is going to be important. There won't be tons of advertising dollars (presumably) and the concept is a bit nuanced and catered to enthusiasts to be able to rely on the strength of its branding. It needs to hit hard, fast, and let its differences speak for themselves out of the gate. Quite like a single spear tipped with metal forged from the last bit of meteoric ore descended from worlds away that is hurled over the heads of a massive army, seeking the heart of an armored emperor, this game needs to know it's target and release with confidence, lest it harmlessly disappear into the multitudinous melee that precedes it.

Ok that was a bit much, but you know what I mean. I think.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  Ender4

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2096

10/24/13 10:26:29 PM#40

Nope. This is one of those games that you can tell will fail before it is even made. Having said that I might actually play it, I just don't expect it to live long.

DAOC was never expected to fail, the MMORPG genre was way too infant to expect any new one to fail. Now you actually have to make a decent game to not fail and the concept of RvR just isn't enough unless you somehow wrap it into the PvE content as well.

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