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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Will SWTOR ever recover?

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545 posts found
  Blazeyer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 471

:)

7/29/13 10:07:17 PM#241

If FFXIV can do it, SWTOR can.

But will they close the game down for a year and pour tens of millions into it? No.

  Frostvein

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/13
Posts: 160

7/29/13 10:23:20 PM#242
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by Frostvein
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by BadOrb

Well it' recovered from this time last year's no updates and F2P conversion. Not just recovered but gained 10% profit. Okay so with EQNext coming out then it might lose a few more subbs even though it's not a sci-fi MMO. At least it is making some money so it should at least be here for a while.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=664635

Cheers,

BadOrb.

Isn't EQNext and TESO supposed to be this year's "bad boys" that will once and for all destroy TOR? I remember when last year it was suppose to be TERA, TSW and GW2 and well, didn't quite happen. I also seem to recall many claiming that EA wouldn't even mention TOR in their quarterly's by this point. Wrong again. Of course WOW is still here after years of doom so we should come to expect bad predictions from  MMO Haters R US";)

 

People over use the word destroy.

 

Tera was full of ex SWTOR players at launch, so was GW2 (and I'd bet TSW, although I didn't play it)  Any time a new MMO comes out, its bad news for SWTOR.

 

SWTOR will probably never go away, as there is a fairly large population of people that play anything with Star Wars on the box, regardless of how good/bad the game itself is. That still doesn't protect it from new releases.

Of course players are going to try the new releases when they come out. Every MMO has to deal with that so it's hardly a problem exclusive to TOR. New games are going to be released every year and that will have an effect on current titles. That's just the nature of the business. That's a bit different from saying "the new releases will kill TOR" which WAS said around these parts frequently. 

I think the SWTOR population tracking site still has this data up, so u can see that the biggest hits to SWTOR were around the times TERA, GW2 and D3 came out. F2P was announced shortly thereafter the release of these games.

 

I wont bother arguing if the game is "dead" is not, but -

If you don't consider it dead, then those titles obviously maimed it.

If you think it is dead, then those titles obviously helped kill it.

 

 

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1425

7/30/13 1:01:06 PM#243

Well there is a thread on the official forums in which the OP and various others suggest SWTOR has already recovered according to EA's Q1 2014 results. Have to assume the thread OP simply doesn't understand as the two quotes from EA's results are incomplete / out of context. Lots of folk high fiving Bioware as  a result.

Thread link: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=664635

Original post:

*********************************************************************************************************

EA released their Q1 2014 report today and SWTOR saw a rise over 3 months ago and more growth than the last year (since q1 2013 aka may-aug 2012)

Quote (1):

First, extra content and free-to-play contributed $177 million, up 35% over the prior year, led by sustained growth in FIFA Ultimate Team, as well as Star Wars: The Old Republic, and FIFA Online 3. This revenue relates to businesses on PC or consoles, where consumers can enhance or extend their gaming experience by buying additional digital content.

Quote (2):

In the previous year, Star Wars: The Old Republic was a subscription-only based MMO. This year, some of the revenue was
recognized in the free-to-play category as we expanded this title to be both a subscription and free-to-play game. If you were to combine all of our extra content free-to-play with subscription, ads, and other, we still saw more than 10% growth over the same period last year.

Congratulations to the Bioware team for stabilizing and now growing the game's population and income, it's a good sign

*********************************************************************************************************

To put things in context the line before quote 1 (from EA's analyst Q&A transcript http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/2610778646x0x679051/d5d63fd4-8e1f-442e-9969-5ac3508923d8/EA-Jul-23-2013_Transcript.pdf available from http://ir.ea.com/ ) was:

"Breaking down our digital revenue into its key components highlights the performances of each business."

So the 35% increase is for EA's total digital revenue - not SWTORs - and as such says nothing about SWTORs.

 

And the line before quote 2 which again provides the context was:

"And fourth, subscriptions, advertising, and other digital revenue contributed $61 million, down 25% over the same period last year."

EA is talking about a) why their sub revenue is down 25% - because SWTOR has many fewer subscribers than it did 12 months earlier - but b) defending their results by saying that all of their digital revenue for extra content + f2p + subs + ads + other digital revenue was up 10%. And whilst this ncludes SWTOR it doesn't say anything about SWTOR in isolation as it is talking about all of EA's digital revenue. So FIFA, Battlefield, WAR, DAoC etc etc. SWTOR may have gone up 200% or gone down 500%. It is buried.

And if you check EA's statement about SWTOR being the "big reason" for subs/ads/other being down 25% then it makes sense. 12 months earlier SWTOR still had between 500k and 1M subs - according to EA - which will have brought in between $15M and $30M (allowing for the free 30-days rolled out last year) compared to this years say $5M to $10. A big drop for sure. It won't be the only reason for the drop but EA are just giving the big hitter.

 

To read the thread on the official forums however all is well

 

The only thing that EA said about SWTOR specifically was in answer to a question on business models:

 

"we started a free-to-play Star Wars business and part of that is showing up in the extra content. So you’re seeing the subscription business down 25%. That’s a reduction, some of the people moving away from Star Wars subscriptions and playing the free-to-play, which is helping drive the extra content side of the equation"

So subs down 25% since F2P - maybe the number for the last full month pre-F2P compared to the average sub number for Q1 2014. Either way 25% doesn't sound to bad imo. The rest of the answer - well I understand the generality of the answer (remember the discussion is really about all of EA's games) but suspect that SWTOR is a bad example. People stop being subscribers and then spend money on extra content?  Yes ... but so do subscribers.

Anyway - all is well according to the poster on the official forums !!!!!

 

 

 

 

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

7/31/13 1:09:27 PM#244

According to a recent survey on themeparkdrone.com

"4 out of 5 people with nothing to do rated this game as nothing to do."

I can look up some more statistics but the sum of all the calculations is that SWTOR will waste your time unless you have the entertainment tastes of a unicellular organism. Any game can idle along as this one is, there is no great achievement here except for swindling a whole lot of Star Wars hostages because there is no other MMO. The introduction of this game was Machiavellian in its destruction of the IP for the MMORPG user base. They couldn't have made it worse if they tried.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

7/31/13 4:59:22 PM#245

yes they could,,they took some good decisions too

they chose themepark,,or would you like them to tweak the engine more?

no noob ganking, they have isolated the factions, so players have very few opportunities to interact

with the opposite faction

thats the way its supposed to be on a PVE server, but they should prolly change that on the PVP servers

the stories was mostly good,,a known boware feature

but the implementation of the skill system is very lackluster,,Theres not a single skill for Space

apparently, nobody can train as a pilot in that universe

but that would explain the performance of the enemies on the Space maps

  Nihilist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 635

7/31/13 5:11:19 PM#246

No it will not come back because the meat of SWTOR is the single player storyline which has an ending.

The MMO aspects are just not good to retain players for a prolonged period of time (years) which is necessary for a game to grow rather than stagnate and dwindle.

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

7/31/13 9:31:03 PM#247
Originally posted by simplius

yes they could,,they took some good decisions too

they chose themepark,,or would you like them to tweak the engine more?

no noob ganking, they have isolated the factions, so players have very few opportunities to interact

with the opposite faction

thats the way its supposed to be on a PVE server, but they should prolly change that on the PVP servers

the stories was mostly good,,a known boware feature

but the implementation of the skill system is very lackluster,,Theres not a single skill for Space

apparently, nobody can train as a pilot in that universe

but that would explain the performance of the enemies on the Space maps

They chose the wrong engine.

The wrong design.

The wrong emphasis: story.

They made a themepark, and then messed that up by making it linear and unvaried even by themepark standards.

They had an inflexible UI.

World PvP was advertised, implemented TWICE, and failed so bad it had to be pulled.

They supplanted a better game for their game through back room brokering and dildoistic avarice.

They put in a Space game that was a 90's low-capability console rail shooter.

The group size is smaller than most games except in raid mode, so guildies often had to wait for the ride to be over to ride.

The abilities had built -in hang and lack of responsiveness that made the game feel sluggish, and to some degree this still exists when compared to other games.

The sub model failed so they introduced one of the most restrictive F2P models (even when you got everything through sub the game was still bad)

The factions have very little interaction, and are essentially just separate games.

Crafting is worse than useless, it's simple and counterproductive for the most part. You are better off grinding to buy from the NPCs or the store.

The classes are the same for each side with a different skin. The builds are simplistic.

Lobby play encouraged by locating the activities on a station that is an inorganic hub that feels like the DMV

No non-combat activities (you can role-play they will quickly add, but you can role-play with a piece of tire rubber with just as much support as Bioware gives you. Tire rubber has no chat bubbles or Bio either)

No player housing as the ships are just transit screens that are identical to everyone else's ship

No-multi person vehicles

Cartoony art style that has nothing to do with Star Wars. rehashed WoW shoulder pads made in Asian sweat shops from the left over budget after the rest of the money for the project went into the entropy bin.

Formulaic giant monster raids, because no one can understand fighting anything else I guess.

Bad performance on many systems.

The stories have a hard time explaining x of y quests ad nauseum. Sith Quest: Go and get medicine for the villagers, but do so Evillly... 

Content produced at a snails pace, bugs fixed so slow that Morgan Freeman has to explain it.

It's a comedy of errors

 

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

7/31/13 10:00:53 PM#248
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by simplius

yes they could,,they took some good decisions too

they chose themepark,,or would you like them to tweak the engine more?

no noob ganking, they have isolated the factions, so players have very few opportunities to interact

with the opposite faction

thats the way its supposed to be on a PVE server, but they should prolly change that on the PVP servers

the stories was mostly good,,a known boware feature

but the implementation of the skill system is very lackluster,,Theres not a single skill for Space

apparently, nobody can train as a pilot in that universe

but that would explain the performance of the enemies on the Space maps

They chose the wrong engine.

The wrong design.

The wrong emphasis: story.

They made a themepark, and then messed that up by making it linear and unvaried even by themepark standards.

They had an inflexible UI.

World PvP was advertised, implemented TWICE, and failed so bad it had to be pulled.

They supplanted a better game for their game through back room brokering and dildoistic avarice.

They put in a Space game that was a 90's low-capability console rail shooter.

The group size is smaller than most games except in raid mode, so guildies often had to wait for the ride to be over to ride.

The abilities had built -in hang and lack of responsiveness that made the game feel sluggish, and to some degree this still exists when compared to other games.

The sub model failed so they introduced one of the most restrictive F2P models (even when you got everything through sub the game was still bad)

The factions have very little interaction, and are essentially just separate games.

Crafting is worse than useless, it's simple and counterproductive for the most part. You are better off grinding to buy from the NPCs or the store.

The classes are the same for each side with a different skin. The builds are simplistic.

Lobby play encouraged by locating the activities on a station that is an inorganic hub that feels like the DMV

No non-combat activities (you can role-play they will quickly add, but you can role-play with a piece of tire rubber with just as much support as Bioware gives you. Tire rubber has no chat bubbles or Bio either)

No player housing as the ships are just transit screens that are identical to everyone else's ship

No-multi person vehicles

Cartoony art style that has nothing to do with Star Wars. rehashed WoW shoulder pads made in Asian sweat shops from the left over budget after the rest of the money for the project went into the entropy bin.

Formulaic giant monster raids, because no one can understand fighting anything else I guess.

Bad performance on many systems.

The stories have a hard time explaining x of y quests ad nauseum. Sith Quest: Go and get medicine for the villagers, but do so Evillly... 

Content produced at a snails pace, bugs fixed so slow that Morgan Freeman has to explain it.

It's a comedy of errors

 

A fine post!  I would disagree on the fault about making a game around story, though:

"The wrong emphasis: story."

 

That is a strength.  Although once the story is completed, it is now a weakness.  EA failed to deliver story even in their first expansion, though.  So while story was important early on, nowadays, it is not. (sadly).  Story was important at launch though.

 

I think story got a bunch of SW fans to check this game out.  They are kind of wishing that SWG was back, or that a different SW game would come out.  Because SWTOR is really a boring game, a tie with GW2 (for me).

 

 

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

8/01/13 7:22:06 AM#249

the biggest sandbox game was/is at around 500k players, right?

an mmo with that low expected sale will not get the star wars license, at least not alone

and i doubt , that it is technically viable to program a sandbox game for millions of players

at least , we havent seen one yet

and even if they could, how many want to spend hours on a project, and then see "XXLeninSlayerXX"

destroy it in minutes, just for the lolz?

  Talin

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 825

You only live once... make it count!

8/01/13 7:32:24 AM#250

SWTOR was, to me, the best massively single-player RPG ever created. I completely enjoyed the story, and disliked almost everything else (crafting, space missions PVP, etc). If they released an expansion with a significant storyline components - even if it was a single yet expansive storyline for all classes moving forward, I would likely buy it and play through it. 

Adding in a proper space simulation and social elements might make me stick around after the story was done as well.

  TheRealDarkeus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/13
Posts: 287

“I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.

8/03/13 10:36:51 PM#251

SWTOR.....  So much potential, so much fail....

 

Sorry, this game is not coming back.  TORTanic will soon be completely at the bottom of the MMO ocean among other pretenders....

  GMan33

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/05
Posts: 78

8/06/13 12:24:41 PM#252

100% will not come back, no way.

Only chance it has of coming back is firing the entire workforce of swtor and hiring in a whole new team with a vision that is actually smart and knows how to properly make an mmo.

No this game was doomed from the start.

The only thing good about this game was the FIRST time leveling a character 1-50, and enjoying the SINGLE player story. Other then that, the rest of the game was an abysmal failure on epic proportion.

I could list 100 things wrong with this game, but im sure its been posted before.

This is a game, sadly, I wish it shuts down in hope of one day in the future, it gets another chance, from a wise and seasoned company who knows how to make MMOS to make it.

 

  rakatt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/31/13
Posts: 14

8/07/13 12:59:31 PM#253

I think SWTOR will be here for a while longer.  I don't think it will last as long as WOW or Anarchy Online. However, it won't be disappearing this year or perhaps even next year. It still has some life left in it.  It could surprise everyone and last quite awhile. Back in the day, people said WOW would not last. Apparently, it has. So, who knows?

Even though so many people are negative toward it, I enjoy it. Sure, it has a lot of faults.  I'm a sucker for a MMO that tells a great story, though. I also enjoy the graphics.  SWTOR was my first MMO. So, I am a bit biased. The bloom has not completely wore off, yet. A person is always fond of their first!

  Shadanwolf

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1895

8/07/13 1:21:01 PM#254
I hope not.But frankly don't care.Some of the key decision makers still have their jobs = little change.
  Shezzi

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/05/08
Posts: 126

Might play EQN + new secret SWG-type game Sony is working on! In the meantime, ESO is looking good!

8/10/13 6:39:48 PM#255

Hearts broke in Star Wars, people were let down. The f2p model was so lacking in appeal, that I never returned to the game. All they got from me was a 6 month subscription, and some regrets over the repetitive linear design. The best parts of SWTOR were the character stories. Once those were done, I didn't want the rest. I don't know if they'll recover. After all the $$ the diva directors wasted on celebrity voiceovers and stuff like that, maybe they don't deserve to.

 

My hopes are on EQNext. I wonder if their innovative new voxel based changeable world design can get online gaming to move outside the box, far away from linearity and repetitive questing.

 

  eddieg50

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 1497

8/10/13 6:57:27 PM#256
TOR is a great game for casual players , every time i go on I see many people playing whether pvp or pve. About once every 2 or 3 weeks some disgruntled swg oldie will come on and do a negative post. Shame really,
  Demmi77

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/08
Posts: 224

8/11/13 12:45:22 AM#257

I've had a very love hate relationship with this game. let's face most of us do want a successful star wars game. SWG was not successful, it was a great sandbox but it had very glaring issues. That aside, i started to sit back really wonder why i kept leaving this game.

I have to compare this to wow. In fact I came to the realization that I must compare all games to wow. The reason is simple, it is the most complete MMO on the market by leaps and bounds.

So, i've tried guild wars 2, swtor, and just about everything under the sun. I tried going back to wow and and i've tried all these mmo's. I don't stay with wow but i also don't stay with all these mmo's.

I look at swtor as i look at a ton of other games. With all the holy trinity talk and all the back and forth you have to realize that games just don't carry the complexity that wow does.

Completely customizeable interface. Threat meters, addons, organized raids and boss fights. When you get to end game in swtor , there is so much of what wow does that the game is just NOT complete.

Same goes with guild wars 2. THe end game pve is just not there.

I got sick of the same ol same ol with wow. After tbc i learned that the game was nothing but rep grind for gear that was replaced by another rep grind and after doing the same dungeon 25 times it got old. The problem with swtor and a lot of mmo's is they fail so hard to even make what wow does bad. Wow's rep grinds suck , the nonstop grinding sucks, but swtor doesn't even do what wow does wrong....right.

we take something simple as the world. Look at vanilla wow and compare that world to swtor (it is in it's vanilla stage). You didnt zone nonstop. Raiding was a challenge, it was hard and there were only a handful of guilds that could beat ragnarok in molten core early on. Even back then in 2004, it was more complex than swtor is today.

The game is not a success , it thrives on gambling boxes much like perfect world, aeria and all the other f2p companies. The game will have it's niche crows that are devoted but ultimately it failed at it's goal of providing a huge universe and taking a chunk of the market. It was hyped more than warhammer and although it didnt fail as bad, the game has taken a step that is basically saying "we made a game that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, now we dont belive in our product, and we can't really produce more so lets charge our subs a sub + cash shop".

The game is going to chug along but it will never gain the audience wow has, the audience gw2 has and it will survive but will it grow . The game is great as a leveling "single player experience" no doubt. It will constantly attract that crowd and it'll trhive off of charging people while they level. It will however, only hold a small portion of people in end game and it will have a very small niche crowd in that department because they are not "developing" the game. People don't need more flashpoints they need more polish, they need a more sturdy, complete game.

 

/end rant

 

tldr; it wont grow but it'll stay around the same just as all the other smaller mmo's

 

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

8/11/13 11:56:32 PM#258
Originally posted by Demmi77

I've had a very love hate relationship with this game. let's face most of us do want a successful star wars game. SWG was not successful, it was a great sandbox but it had very glaring issues. That aside, i started to sit back really wonder why i kept leaving this game.

I have to compare this to wow. In fact I came to the realization that I must compare all games to wow. The reason is simple, it is the most complete MMO on the market by leaps and bounds.

So, i've tried guild wars 2, swtor, and just about everything under the sun. I tried going back to wow and and i've tried all these mmo's. I don't stay with wow but i also don't stay with all these mmo's.

I look at swtor as i look at a ton of other games. With all the holy trinity talk and all the back and forth you have to realize that games just don't carry the complexity that wow does.

Completely customizeable interface. Threat meters, addons, organized raids and boss fights. When you get to end game in swtor , there is so much of what wow does that the game is just NOT complete.

Same goes with guild wars 2. THe end game pve is just not there.

I got sick of the same ol same ol with wow. After tbc i learned that the game was nothing but rep grind for gear that was replaced by another rep grind and after doing the same dungeon 25 times it got old. The problem with swtor and a lot of mmo's is they fail so hard to even make what wow does bad. Wow's rep grinds suck , the nonstop grinding sucks, but swtor doesn't even do what wow does wrong....right.

we take something simple as the world. Look at vanilla wow and compare that world to swtor (it is in it's vanilla stage). You didnt zone nonstop. Raiding was a challenge, it was hard and there were only a handful of guilds that could beat ragnarok in molten core early on. Even back then in 2004, it was more complex than swtor is today.

The game is not a success , it thrives on gambling boxes much like perfect world, aeria and all the other f2p companies. The game will have it's niche crows that are devoted but ultimately it failed at it's goal of providing a huge universe and taking a chunk of the market. It was hyped more than warhammer and although it didnt fail as bad, the game has taken a step that is basically saying "we made a game that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, now we dont belive in our product, and we can't really produce more so lets charge our subs a sub + cash shop".

The game is going to chug along but it will never gain the audience wow has, the audience gw2 has and it will survive but will it grow . The game is great as a leveling "single player experience" no doubt. It will constantly attract that crowd and it'll trhive off of charging people while they level. It will however, only hold a small portion of people in end game and it will have a very small niche crowd in that department because they are not "developing" the game. People don't need more flashpoints they need more polish, they need a more sturdy, complete game.

 

/end rant

 

tldr; it wont grow but it'll stay around the same just as all the other smaller mmo's

I'm reading through this and amazed someone could put it in words!

 

As a former WoW player myself, I can relate to your comparisons.  SWTOR tried to beat WoW by dumbing down WoW .. but essentially EA forgot to copy Vanilla WoW, when the game was a huge success .. instead they copied Cataclysm, during WoW's decline, but the bosses were all bugged :P .. the content didn't allow for social divisions and everyone was at end game twiddling their thumbs, doing huttball ... again, on a "random" PVP match.

 

Good read, thank you.

 

 

 

 

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Synthan

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/13
Posts: 4

8/12/13 3:27:51 AM#259
My server seems pretty populated to me.
  GoldenArrow

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1129

8/12/13 3:32:15 AM#260

SWTOR is an epic journey from start to level cap.

There's really no point playing after that. The core game is horrible and their endgame just doesn't live up to the sub fee.

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