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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » The topic on everyone's mind: "Can EQ:Next work with Sony's F2P Model?"

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49 posts found
  ClassicEQ

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 145

6/16/13 7:03:54 PM#21

I understand SOE is a business that needs money.

 

A cash shop is NOT the answer. Not for a game that requires an alternate multiplayer, role-playing world. What  has happened to subscriptions? Cash shops destroy immersion. Players are spending real world money to change the in game world. Experience boosters, vanity items (dyes), mounts, raw building materials should all be earned within game. When you start skipping the small things (like crafting/finding dye) in the game, it creates little holes in the game and eventually you're just left with people standing around saying "hey look what I accomplished (bought) in 2 seconds!"  This leads to becoming bored faster.

When I see amazing looking players in Gw2, I just don't think much of it. I just think cash shop. When I saw flashy gear in EQ1, I inspected their armor and talked to them. They usually ended up telling me a story. Each piece had a story.

 

People saying "you DON'T have to use the cash shop if you don't like it" aren't thinking this through. It is annoying to have it in the game because what you EARNED has no value if someone else buys it.

  nennafir

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 228

6/16/13 10:39:09 PM#22
Originally posted by ClassicEQ

People saying "you DON'T have to use the cash shop if you don't like it" aren't thinking this through. It is annoying to have it in the game because what you EARNED has no value if someone else buys it.

Who cares about anyone else?  Do you seriously play MMOs for vanity, to brag it up to other players?  I know a lot of people do, but:  Grow up already.  It is a game.  It was worth it if you had fun doing it.  Are you seriously trying to make a living off the game, that you care what value the things you EARNED (your caps) have?

Edit:  Don't get me wrong.  I am all about fair play.  I don't get a thrill pvping if I know I am playing against someone who just bought their gear and that is why they are winning.  But for the same reason, I am not thrilled to pvp with someone who did some boring godawful raid dungeon for 3000-hours because they are unemployed/student and that is why they are winning.  In both cases, they are not winning because of skill but rather because of game-sanctioned cheating.

Often, I think I am not for MMOs and go on a spree of just playing fighting games again.  Now, those are refreshing games, particularly if face-to-face so lag is not an issue...  Why can't we just have more fighting games, even if I am getting old enough that my reflexes aren't what they once were?

In any case, I understand if people don't like playing in a game that is rigged.  Who does?  Who wants to play dice with someone who uses weighted dice?  But when I hear people talking about the hard work that they put into games, and the blood and sweat they poured out to EARN their place/items, it just makes me laugh.

  foofighter405

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/03
Posts: 26

Where ever you go, there you are
--Mark Twain--

6/16/13 10:49:58 PM#23
Originally posted by nennafir
Originally posted by ClassicEQ

People saying "you DON'T have to use the cash shop if you don't like it" aren't thinking this through. It is annoying to have it in the game because what you EARNED has no value if someone else buys it.

Who cares about anyone else?  Do you seriously play MMOs for vanity, to brag it up to other players?  I know a lot of people do, but:  Grow up already.  It is a game.  It was worth it if you had fun doing it.  Are you seriously trying to make a living off the game, that you care what value the things you EARNED (your caps) have?

   Of course you care what other people think.  We all care to some extent about how others view us.  That's not a valid argument at all.  A cash shop is and has been a bad idea.  When you don't earn the items that you gathered throughout your avatars "life" you have less value on the items not to mention the game.  It's short sited by the company to say hey we got some cash while we could, People that earn items and are proud of it stay around longer and in the monthly payments put up more cash in the long run if the game created is solid. 

   Also growing up has nothing to do with it and is a simple slander to justify your agreement.

Foo

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

6/17/13 12:28:40 AM#24
My opinion on pay to win is can a guy log on, spend $300, and instantly beat all the hard work I did? If he/she can, then it is pay to win. I prefer top end gear to NOT be for sell via cash shop. But, if that is the case, then it needs to at a rate where non-payers don't feel obligated/required to pay. If the grind is so ridiculous its unrealistic to not pay, then its a problem
  Grailer

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 833

6/17/13 12:34:16 AM#25

All online Shooters have people using wallhacks and aimbots . I am 100% sure of this .

There is no real way to stop this because there are people selling professional hacks that they continue to change when detected.

But in a PvE game like EQ where its group vs AI  the only cheating is usually the monsters you are fighting :)

 

 

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4821

6/17/13 1:25:57 AM#26

DCU is probably as close to p2p as you get without playing wow while still having the free option and people still complain and make the same stupid arguments about free to play games.

If EQN follows the same pay model as DCU did it will be another game that is as fair to the players as any free to play or pay to play game gets. So yes, SOEs f2p model will work for eqn.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  Allein

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/13
Posts: 931

6/17/13 1:27:38 AM#27

To me Time = Money. Some people have a lot of free time and can play 24/7. Some people have real lives and while they enjoy gaming, they also have to work and earn a living that allows them to pay for things in game. To me they are equal. Why should either suffer due to lacking what the other has, Time or Money.

I play a lot of Team Fortress 2 which is FTP completely, even the initial game. They have a cash shop as well. On top of that, they have a market that allows for trading in game items for real cash and other digital items. Players are also able to submit their own creations and if picked to be added, earn a percent of the profits from the cash shop. To me, this system works very well and no one is hindered in anyway.

You can spend hours playing, trading, and crafting items to get what you want or you can spend a couple bucks in the cash shop. Either way, both sides get rewarded and have no effect on the other. TF2 is a FPS so of course things run differently then a MMORPG, but the FTP system works well for it.

With EQN being a sandbox and assuming a lot of player made content, I hope they allow us to purchase content from each other and allow us to make a profit if we are so inclined. 

GW2 also is FTP after the initial game purchase. The cash shop is mainly cosmetic/vanity stuff with boosts to XP and other small bonuses to speed things along. I don't see either really game breaking and personally not worth spending any cash on. If someone wants to spend a lot of cash to gain levels quicker, good for them. In doing so they are missing out on a lot of time in game and the perks that come along with it.

I haven't played EQ/EQ2 in forever, but both seem to have decent FTP systems as well. Hopefully EQN has something similar.

I'm guessing EQN will allow us to buy mounts, housing, vanity gear, buffs/boosts, etc and nothing game breaking like top end gear or levels. If they have these items plus some sort of player run market, SOE will make plenty of profit. If they do offer a sub of some sort, hopefully it just includes various items that can be purchased in the cash shop and again are not hindering anyone else.

To the OP question, I do believe EQN will work with Sony's model, but I think we are going to see a brand new model for EQN. They have hinted that the game will be something brand new, why should it have the same systems that so many other games already have going either successfully or not.

 

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 994

6/17/13 1:44:26 AM#28
I don't mind any pricing model as long as I can sub and get rid of cash shop that way. So called F2P model is a constant reminder for me how good P2P without cash shop actually was.
  Dullahan

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 754

Death to Themepark.

6/17/13 2:04:46 AM#29

People have crazy ideas about what they will put in the cash shop.  

If SOE does it right like they have been, the stuff in shops will be cosmetic and not affect game play.  Much of it will probably be available in game by other means as well.  This won't even be like PS2, with weapons you can buy, because theres no pve or crafting weapons and armor.

also

 

Originally posted by nennafir
Who cares about anyone else?  Do you seriously play MMOs for vanity, to brag it up to other players?  I know a lot of people do, but:  Grow up already.  It is a game.  It was worth it if you had fun doing it.  Are you seriously trying to make a living off the game, that you care what value the things you EARNED (your caps) have?

Edit:  Don't get me wrong.  I am all about fair play.  I don't get a thrill pvping if I know I am playing against someone who just bought their gear and that is why they are winning.  But for the same reason, I am not thrilled to pvp with someone who did some boring godawful raid dungeon for 3000-hours because they are unemployed/student and that is why they are winning.  In both cases, they are not winning because of skill but rather because of game-sanctioned cheating.

In any case, I understand if people don't like playing in a game that is rigged.  Who does?  Who wants to play dice with someone who uses weighted dice?  But when I hear people talking about the hard work that they put into games, and the blood and sweat they poured out to EARN their place/items, it just makes me laugh.

I think you need to look up competition it the dictionary to get a better understanding of what its about.  Video games are digital competition, and while no competition should be taken THAT seriously, people do play them competitively nonetheless.  Some people run track, some people play football, others spend their life seeing how many women and dollar bills they can collect... the rest of us play video games.  Just because you're not competitive, or rather, not a competitor, doesn't mean the rest of us aren't.

Rofl, players who raid win "because of game-sanctioned cheating?"

Your posts get more arrogant and ridiculous every day.

Played EQ, UO, DAoC, AO, WoW, EQII, Vanguard, Ryzom, Darkfall, Warhammer, Rift, MO, Tera, DFUW, Age of Wushu, NW2, ESO and many others I don't remember or care to admit.
-
Awaiting The Repopulation, and Archeage.
-
Don't be ignorant. Get an MMO education!

  thinktank001

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1867

6/17/13 2:08:05 AM#30
Originally posted by BearKnight

Simple question, do you feel F2P can work with a truly open-ended Sandbox model game that SOE is working to build for Everquest 3?

 

 

First, we need to understand Smedley talk.   He states that the original EQ was a sandbox, and as we all know that EQ is about as far from a sandbox as it gets.   With that in mind EQ 3 will at best be some kind of bastardized hybridization.    Secondly, we need to understand that a cash shop based game can never be a sandbox.   Thirdly, the cash shop model game design is based on limiting game mechanics so that players will want to purchase cash shop items.   Even if the design was minimized to have the least amount of impact on as possible; the cash shop items would still be the foundation of the economy. 

 

Unless SOE does a 180 on their normal cash shop design, I don't see it being successful.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2441

World > Quest Progression

6/17/13 2:21:43 AM#31
F2P can work for EQN as long as the sub is worth it.  They will need that constant flow of money for stability.  If they think they have a game worth spending money on then limiting F2P won't be a problem since those that still won't spend probably have no lasting interest.
  User Deleted
6/17/13 2:55:33 AM#32

F2P can work easily. Going P2P in this current market would be profit suicide.

Obviously they need to temper any cash grabs, but there are plenty of examples of good F2P models around. Although B2P, GW2 is a good example.

Just sell convenience and appearance items. Focus on time savers and you will make bucketloads of cash, while still keeping the cheapos happy.  

  Grailer

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 833

6/17/13 3:13:28 AM#33

You would be surprized at how many people are willing to fork over some cash just so their character looks better .

 

 

  yangdude

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/12
Posts: 66

6/17/13 3:15:31 AM#34
the topic on my mind is this - has Archeage finally got the end-game everyone is waiting for, and if so, how will all these other games compete?
  Kazuhiro

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/03/07
Posts: 403

6/17/13 3:16:25 AM#35
Originally posted by ice-vortex
Uh, there's nothing wrong with Planetside 2's F2P model.

An interesting opinion, almost the entire world disagrees with you, but don't let that get you down.

JeroKane: In TSW your gear has NO stats whatsoever! But only via trinkets and talismans.

Myself: Please, stop posting, I can't breath I'm laughing so hard at that statement.

  ice-vortex

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 921

6/17/13 3:20:40 AM#36
Originally posted by Kazuhiro
Originally posted by ice-vortex
Uh, there's nothing wrong with Planetside 2's F2P model.

An interesting opinion, almost the entire world disagrees with you, but don't let that get you down.

You've conducted polling of the entire world?

  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

6/17/13 3:20:44 AM#37
I'm scratching my head over why this is even a discussion, for the company that invented $tation Ca$h.
  Dejoblue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 295

I'll give them heroics...and when everyone is super...no one will be.

6/17/13 5:59:58 AM#38
Originally posted by Grailer

You would be surprized at how many people are willing to fork over some cash just so their character looks better .

 

 

Every single one of the 10 characters I have got awesome looking appearance gear from the cash shop. It doesnt add stats it just looks cool. I am SOOOO happy about that. I have played FAR too many games where you get brown pants from quest X and green chest piece from quest Y while sporting vendor bought brown gloves and boots.

 

I also spent $60 for the whole Cheery Wood Furniture set for my wood elf's house.

 

You are correct sir!

And SOE is figuring this out.

If you have not looked at the current SOE Cash shops for EQ and EQ2 then you need to.

 

They no longer charge for classes or races.

All bag slots are unlocked.

They are moving away from restrictions.

EQ2 doesn't even sell leveling gear, I still have some leveling gear sets I bought for all of my alts, I think they were like 5 bucks a set, in crates, they are ALL "Mastercrafted" quality.

SOE removed them because crafters complained they couldn't sell their wares.

Well now it is impossible to go to the Broker and find level appropriate gear for my toons, because crafters just are not making the stuff, I wish they would bring back selling leveling gear. Sorry got off on a  tangent.

 

My point is yea guys check out the current version of the cash shop. It is not pay to win. HAH I was looking at XP potions...1800 SC for a 4 hour potion for 100% xp bonus. NOT very many players are going to spend $18 to have 100% xp for 4 hours... SO yea that is as much "power" and unfairness they sell. Sure some rich dude or someone on a whim might buy it and good for them, but 4 hours is not going to "break" the game.

Also, lets give Smedly a chance. It has been over a decade sine he infuriated you EQ players. He was new , you were new, I am sure he had Corporate on his back, now he is experienced and has great games like DCUO and the great evolution of EQ and EQ2 and the salvation of Vanguard.

I gotta give him props for Vanguard.. man that was a failure, but SOE bought it anyway, I am sure he took some heat for corporate for that, but in my mind he was doing Brad McQuaid a solid and the fans of EQ a solid as it was supposed to be the successor to EQ. It is still going today. Yea there is only 1 server, but man he gets a ton of brownie points for Vanguard alone. Let's let him use them now.

When EQN comes out and it sucks, then you can sling poo at Smed, until then I think he has earned a fair shake.

  Xthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2650

6/17/13 6:10:23 AM#39

I have not played any of SoE's f2p titles, so I do not know what all they do and don't do.  I had hoped that EQN would be p2p, but that seems to have sailed, so if they had a subscription that basically removed the cash shop for me, I would do that.  I do not like to feel like I am being nickel and dimed every time I do something.  That is why I like p2p, I know what I am going to spend, and it is easier imo to have a cash shop that is cosmetic only.

 

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11492

6/17/13 8:26:12 AM#40
Originally posted by Xthos

I have not played any of SoE's f2p titles, so I do not know what all they do and don't do.  I had hoped that EQN would be p2p, but that seems to have sailed, so if they had a subscription that basically removed the cash shop for me, I would do that.  I do not like to feel like I am being nickel and dimed every time I do something.  That is why I like p2p, I know what I am going to spend, and it is easier imo to have a cash shop that is cosmetic only.

SOE supports the sub model too  -- EQ2 is both a ftp game and sub game

the cash shop in EQ2 is cosmetic only  (w exception of mounts and experience potions)

 

RIFT recently went ftp and Trion still supports subs

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