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General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Crowdfunding

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33 posts found

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 332

Why is it said that the road to hell is paved with good intentions? Is there a shortage of bad ones?

6/12/13 9:48:01 AM#21

As Caldren mentioned above about Star Citizen exceeding the $10 million mark in crowd funding. It started as a kick starter by a well known game designer  that had a massive impact in the PC gaming genre back in the early 90's. Chris Roberts to some is a legend who has a history of making games players want and delivers such.


Now I know what many will say... Chris who? Yeah Ive heard that exactly as typed.... Its sad really. Alot of the gamers today dont even know the men and even some women who gave them the ability to play the games they are now playing. Hell, Chris Roberts is the one that set the path to the level of graphics we have in gaming today. He was unsatisfied with what he saw being made for PC, so he did something about it. Wing Commander and its sister games sold millions.


Chris Roberts would later go on to produce movies... Punisher and a few others that really didnt stay in the minds of people long... However Chris never turned his eyes away from gaming. When he came back and announced he would be making Star Citizen a MMOFPS(Massively Multi-Player Online First person Simulator in this case) The players flocked to him.


By the end of the initial kick starter Star Citizen had earned about 6 million dollars. 6 months or so later its hit 10 million.  The developers and Chris communicate directly with the players, invite them to the offices, have live streams, a weekly update video, and are planning a 24 hour live stream for players to learn new things about the game, ask questions and get answers.


I have played MMO's for going on 11 years and have to say that Star Citizen may be the biggest winner in the area of crowd funding to date. I only hope more game developers follow in the future not for what money they can make but what they can make for the players. The era of publishers cutting content for profit may finally be at an end.


At the least lets hope it ends Electronic Arts stupidity.


Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT

Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.

Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games

Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery


Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

6/12/13 5:31:26 PM#22
Originally posted by Caldrin

I dont know too much about Torment or Eternity, but Shroud of the avatar is a new project by a new company that did not have any major AAA publishers backnig them.. so yes without kickstarter they prob would not have made the game unless they could ahve fonud funding from a big publisher..

New company and new project is meaningless. Gariotts name opens doors. If he wanted the money he would have gotten it. Certainly more than he has received from Kickstarter. Perhaps before spending your money to fund things you should actually take a look at how the business works. There is not much worse than an ignorant consumer in my mind.

The games I have backed and have got have been pretty high quality games and I ahve been happy with them. Also nearly all MMOS since wow have been trying to copy it as clsoe as possible and we all know that.. msot people are bored as hell of these cookie cutter/clone MMOs. So they cant come up with the kind of money to match AAA games? Check out Star Citizen it just hit $10m fround crowd funding. It also does not need to cost 10s of millions ot make an MMORPG. Most people with projects on kickstarter are passionate about making their game and have already put a shit ton of their own time into it.

Most? Where are your numbers for that? Cause the metrics certainly do not back it. Also, you are most certainly wrong about "copying". You do not reinvent the wheel for the sake of reinventing the wheel. By your standards Nissan and Ford make the same vehicles.

Of course that is my own opinion about SOE but basically we have a spat of MMORPGs get funded on kickstarter, all of them Sandbox type MMORPGs.. loads of polls and stuff on different forums with people saying they want a sandbox game over a themepark.. then all of a sudden SOE announce EQN is gonig to be a sandbox game.. sure i could be wrong but still.

LOLWUT! Stop buying into hype trains. Let me guess you took the Pathfinder Online hype video to heart that only sandboxes grow subs too right? ROFL.

Sure Garriot is loaded and I am sure he put some of his own cash into the game but it still needed more cash for it to go into full development. he is not a multi billion $ company. I do agree with you on that big $ billion companies have no place trying to get funded on kickstarter.

Has nothing to do with "Billions". It would be a hell of a long stretch to say he could not get access to the cash. He sure has investment opportunities. God knows he has enough friends in high places to make it happen if he wanted. The entire problem with the budget is good people are expensive. Even running a super tight ship there will be mistakes and delays. Its how game production works. For the types of budgets they are talking about, with all of this "new tech" means the game is going to be content light at best. Graphics are going to take a hit. The game will not have the marketing to hit big markets. Its almost setting yourself up to fail. There is a reason why most AAA mmo's have a 4-6 year production cycle and a cost of $50-100m.




Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 448

6/12/13 7:24:16 PM#23
I like the idea of Kickstarter and crowdsource funding...what I rather dislike is when well-established, even wealthy, companies use it when they could be funding ventures themselves. Crowd sourcing should be the purview of creative people who can't get funding or venture capital elsewhere...those people who are trying to be innovative.

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

6/13/13 1:27:44 AM#24

It's going to remain the greatest thing ever until one of these people walks off with millions of peoples money. Till it actually happens people will always defend it because they think it's the answer to creating the magical mmo of their dreams.

I'm not saying any of the people who have used KS are going to do it but you don't collect millions of dollars from people's good will without attracting the telavangalists of the world.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5731

6/13/13 2:49:05 AM#25

"Even though the product is essentially crowd funded, the developer will still have major stakeholders who wish to have a larger say in the final product than the dude who pledged $25 to get into the beta."

This is what a lot of players do not realise. They think KS is independent of major investors and so will no be pushed down the WoW route. Think again.


Novice Member

Joined: 12/18/11
Posts: 1199

6/13/13 8:31:02 AM#26

I think crowd funding is great.....with caveats.

1. I think it is great for helping small projects. Or to push a project out the door. My "other" hobby is tabletop wargaming, and I have seen several successful projects funded through KS. These projects had books already written and minis sculpted. They just needed funding for initial printing and casting.

2.I don't like to see projects try to get full funding through KS. There is a HUGE difference between an "idea" and a "ready to go project".

3. I like to see when a company just needs to get an expensive piece of new equipment to further their advancement. This could probably go with #2.

4.Crowdfunding seems like the ultimate pre-purchase to me, and I'm not into that....


Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3224

Veni, Vidi, Converti

6/13/13 10:38:09 AM#27
If you pick a successful project then it's good. The trick is in the choosing: Then it's good for everyone.

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 78

6/13/13 10:10:09 PM#28

Kickstarter, to me, is in a lot of ways exactly what I have been hoping for for years.


For so long now, I've felt that all I was doing was shouting into the wind my hopes & wishes for games, because the things I wanted weren't deemed 'money makers' by major gaming companies. Then along comes Kickstarter, with games being made that I REALLY WANT, and with none of those walls that are placed between consumers and creators. Finally, I can put my money where my mouth is.


I don't do this impulsively. I look into Kickstarter projects and seriously debate every single pledge I make. I have pledged to 20 projects, all being projects I am truly excited about. 19 are PC games. 4 are MMOs. While I hope to receive a game for each of these pledges, I'll still consider my pledge to have been worth it even if something happens and the project fails, because finally I am able to actually stand up and say, "This. This is what I want," and actually be heard and noticed. I consider that worth my pledge, better than continuing to sit in my computer chair - or shout into the wind- and continuing to remain unexcited year after year after year at the games being made. I am so tired of being unexcited.


As to what makes me pledge to Kickstarter? The game itself, because  I really only care about the game. If I'm interested in the game, after I've already decided that I will be pledging, I'll then look to see if anything in the reward tiers really speaks to me. Typically it's not alpha or beta or even most of the 'phat lewt'. Stories/novellas/lore books will pique my interest if there are any in the tiers, but those aren't often found in tiers for an MMO. 



Advanced Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 220

6/16/13 9:16:18 AM#29
I backed a lot of Kickstarter projects (with small sums, though usually more than I pay for games), but the only MMO I recall backing is Shadowrun Online. If Heroes & Villains goes on Kickstarter I might back it.
Originally posted by Livnthedream

Because many of the highest grossing titles had no need to go to Kickstarter. Do you honestly believe that Torment, or Project Eternity or Shroud of the Avatar actually needed crowdfunding? Do you honestly believe that they just could not get enough outside support? Seriously?

Some of them wouldn't have gotten the support. All of them would have gotten far less money which would have made them worse games. A publisher or investor wouldn't have put $4m into a game that's estimated to cost $900k to make, but fans do, and that makes a real difference.

Double Fine's Adventure is obviously the best example of a game that wouldn't have been made without Kickstarter, but I believe that all the early big Kickstarter projects have been projects their creators wanted to make for years and couldn't find anyone to back.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/04
Posts: 149

Knowledge is the enemy of faith.

6/18/13 12:42:45 AM#30
Crowd funding a game is similar to a group putting together money to commission a statue. They know what they want it to look and feel like but they need an artist to build it. Some will be great, and some will be taken apart and used as doorstops next year.

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/09
Posts: 459

6/18/13 12:52:31 AM#31

It's getting tiresome honestly..

So many do it, and they almost never deliver on their promises or "vision" ..


Starting to become a joke almost..


Advanced Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 220

6/18/13 3:14:58 AM#32
Originally posted by zellmer

It's getting tiresome honestly..

So many do it, and they almost never deliver on their promises or "vision" ..

Certainly not my experience. What are you basing this on?


Advanced Member

Joined: 4/16/06
Posts: 220

6/18/13 3:37:32 AM#33

Going back to the original questions (except what I backed which I already mentioned - Shadowrun Online):

I don't expect to get anything special from pledging. I pledge because I want a project to happen. The rewards are things that the game can do to entice me to pledge more. Things like art books, novellas and insights into development can entice me to pay more, while others like soundtracks, wallpapers or backer specific game features don't.

What reward tiers exist and their prices serves as an additional means to form an opinion about the project creators.

When it comes to MMO's, I think it depends. I said I would pledge to Heroes & Villains because I think Golden Girl and her crew chose a good way to get an MMO done with limited resources. They picked an engine that cost just $99 up front and is already built for MMO, and they jumped into development. In my eyes they proved that they are serious and capable. That doesn't mean that the end result will be great, but I'll be willing to give them a little bit of money on the assumption that this money will be well spent.

I think that would prove to be an example that an MMO doesn't really need many millions in funds to develop. Then again I don't have that much experience in MMO development to be sure of it.

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