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Darkfall: Unholy Wars

Darkfall: Unholy Wars 

General Discussion  » Mentality of DFUW Zergs when it comes to PvP and sieging

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55 posts found
  Kshahdoo

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/07
Posts: 560

6/11/13 7:25:25 AM#21


Originally posted by bcbully
Is there am alliance system in place or is it just "Hey let's be friends"? Are these alliances formal?

 

In Wushu a guild can have up to 3 formal alliances. Only these 3 can enter your wars. The kicker is they may have a war themselves with someone else. 


Yes, sure, that wushu crap is a good example what way sandbox MMO should work.

  Kshahdoo

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/07
Posts: 560

6/11/13 7:31:10 AM#22


Originally posted by B1mble
Sounds to me like they constructed all that was necessary for mass battles and sieges but gave little though to any kind of political structure or social law to give it direction.

 


It works the same way in EVE. Small PvP corporations and aliances have skill, but they can't stand up against giant blobs. 15 Nagas with a few logistics can destroy 2-3 times more powerful fleet without losing a single ship. But they can't do anything to a fleet of 10 titans, 30 supercarriers and 100 dreds with hundreds supports.

  SysFail

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/05
Posts: 377

6/11/13 7:31:58 AM#23
Originally posted by Damedius
The original Darkfall was never like this. Even when the pop was high, people were all standing around macroing 90% of the time at this point in the game.

We all know that's just not true. 

  Damedius

Novice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 334

6/11/13 7:54:28 AM#24
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by Damedius
The original Darkfall was never like this. Even when the pop was high, people were all standing around macroing 90% of the time at this point in the game.

We all know that's just not true. 

Who is we?

I never have trouble finding people or PvP in the game.

  B1mble

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 151

6/11/13 7:55:28 AM#25
Originally posted by Kshahdoo

 


Originally posted by B1mble
Sounds to me like they constructed all that was necessary for mass battles and sieges but gave little though to any kind of political structure or social law to give it direction.

 

 


 

It works the same way in EVE. Small PvP corporations and aliances have skill, but they can't stand up against giant blobs. 15 Nagas with a few logistics can destroy 2-3 times more powerful fleet without losing a single ship. But they can't do anything to a fleet of 10 titans, 30 supercarriers and 100 dreds with hundreds supports.

I am not familiar with EVE, but with the mention of corporations would it be fair to say that a limiter on players actions is economics?

What I was referring to with this game is that the devs created a world, dumped everyone in it with the message 'go kill and loot' and forgot to put any kind of breaks or limiters in to prevent it descending into anarchy.

E.g.

Can a singular player be elected to rule over a city by that election set city taxes on goods crafted and sold?

Can he/she select from the population players to be a lower council that decides on what should be built/researched or created to possibly benefit the whole?

Can players be citizens of a town or city and thus be affected by those elected decisions?

Can smaller settlements near the city become part of a protectorate and thus not only be protected by the city but also pay tax and provide resources?

Can anyone declare a player outlaw and place a bounty on their head?

Can a ruler/clan leader set up trade agreements with other player cities and arrange for caravans to not be attacked by citizens of the other city?

Can a player become a merchant and trade with other cities, possibly hiring clan mates to act as caravan guards?

Can anyone from cities with peace treaties who attacks another citizen be declared outlaw?

Can players set up guild houses within cities, these guild houses being seperate from those who built the place?

Can cities be raided for specific items such as building plans and other resources by stealth and theavery rather than outright assaults?

etc etc

Some of the above can be agreed on verbally and broken just as easily but without the facilities in the game to say cast a vote which affects the majority then players have nothing to lose that can't be replaced and as such they dont care.

TL;DR

If you want Game of Thrones the mechanics have to be there in the game to allow it to happen.  At the moment Darkfall comes across as just mindless barbarism which is a turnoff. 

  SysFail

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/05
Posts: 377

6/11/13 9:48:42 AM#26
Originally posted by Damedius
Originally posted by SysFail
Originally posted by Damedius
The original Darkfall was never like this. Even when the pop was high, people were all standing around macroing 90% of the time at this point in the game.

We all know that's just not true. 

Who is we?

I never have trouble finding people or PvP in the game.

We being those that played DF during the heady days of a high population. 

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3300

6/11/13 9:32:44 PM#27
Originally posted by B1mble
Originally posted by Kshahdoo

 


Originally posted by B1mble
Sounds to me like they constructed all that was necessary for mass battles and sieges but gave little though to any kind of political structure or social law to give it direction.

 

 


 

It works the same way in EVE. Small PvP corporations and aliances have skill, but they can't stand up against giant blobs. 15 Nagas with a few logistics can destroy 2-3 times more powerful fleet without losing a single ship. But they can't do anything to a fleet of 10 titans, 30 supercarriers and 100 dreds with hundreds supports.

I am not familiar with EVE, but with the mention of corporations would it be fair to say that a limiter on players actions is economics?

What I was referring to with this game is that the devs created a world, dumped everyone in it with the message 'go kill and loot' and forgot to put any kind of breaks or limiters in to prevent it descending into anarchy.

E.g.

Can a singular player be elected to rule over a city by that election set city taxes on goods crafted and sold?

Can he/she select from the population players to be a lower council that decides on what should be built/researched or created to possibly benefit the whole?

Can players be citizens of a town or city and thus be affected by those elected decisions?

Can smaller settlements near the city become part of a protectorate and thus not only be protected by the city but also pay tax and provide resources?

Can anyone declare a player outlaw and place a bounty on their head?

Can a ruler/clan leader set up trade agreements with other player cities and arrange for caravans to not be attacked by citizens of the other city?

Can a player become a merchant and trade with other cities, possibly hiring clan mates to act as caravan guards?

Can anyone from cities with peace treaties who attacks another citizen be declared outlaw?

Can players set up guild houses within cities, these guild houses being seperate from those who built the place?

Can cities be raided for specific items such as building plans and other resources by stealth and theavery rather than outright assaults?

etc etc

Some of the above can be agreed on verbally and broken just as easily but without the facilities in the game to say cast a vote which affects the majority then players have nothing to lose that can't be replaced and as such they dont care.

TL;DR

If you want Game of Thrones the mechanics have to be there in the game to allow it to happen.  At the moment Darkfall comes across as just mindless barbarism which is a turnoff. 

 

You dont need formal rules in a sand box to get what you want. As far as i'm aware, eve doesn't have any pin null space


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
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Warhammer - Xpiher

  B1mble

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 151

6/12/13 1:45:56 AM#28
Originally posted by xpiher
Originally posted by B1mble
Originally posted by Kshahdoo

 


Originally posted by B1mble

 

 


 

 

 

You dont need formal rules in a sand box to get what you want. As far as i'm aware, eve doesn't have any pin null space

Doesn't EVE have areas that are policed and others that are referred to as nullsec?  Not to mention is not the EVE universe massive and therefore big enough to dilute the community so they dont constantly bump heads due to lack of room?

And I am not on about formal rules but the mechanics so that players can create them if they so desire.  Electing a formal ruler for a city as well as a lower council is an option not a rule for example.

Players seem to complain about zergs and ganking just for the sake of it.  In short there is PvP with little to no purpose.  If this is all there is to do then the game will not last long because it is nothing more than an arena or a very pretty kill box.  Warband does it far far better and I am sure there are those out there who could mod in a loot system.

If a fantasy world has no culture, no consequences for a players actions and no method for a player to become more than what they started out as then, again it is just a kill box with scenery.

If the idea of having a fully fleshed out 3D world in which to fight and develop is repugnant to players then maybe a solution to ganking and zerging is 3 deaths are followed by a fourth permadeath.

  Pie_Rat

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/05
Posts: 287

6/12/13 2:37:37 AM#29
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by SysFail

Until there is something worth fighting for, i don't see any of the big clans going to war. AV have failed miserably in this aspect so far, but hopefully by the time summer is over, the game might have added some content that gives incentives to siege, but with AV already falling behind with their roadmap, it may be longer...

You can fight for the reason having some fun. Ok i agree that it is better if you have something worth fighting for but i just dont understand the mentality of these zergs. Sitting inside zap tower cities doing nothing is a mentality that will bring doom to this game.

Get out in the open world and create your own content if Aventurine fail to deliver.

 

The great majority of players in these so called hard core MMOs are spineless douchebags who only play to get that fuzzy feeling after they've deluded themselves into thinking they won at something. Doesn't matter if they outnumbered their foes 10 to 1. All that counts is TEH W1N !!1... and the fuzzy feeling.

  Traugar

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 167

6/12/13 2:45:33 AM#30
Originally posted by Battlerock
Zergs are not9t fun this is why instanced is better. Instanced with equal sides.

Ok.  You are not the target audience for this game so why waste time making a comment?  Go play the million or so games that offer instanced pvp if that is what you are into.  Let those who enjoy open world have one please. 

  SysFail

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/05
Posts: 377

6/12/13 11:38:13 AM#31
Originally posted by Pie_Rat
The great majority of players in these so called hard core MMOs are spineless douchebags who only play to get that fuzzy feeling after they've deluded themselves into thinking they won at something. Doesn't matter if they outnumbered their foes 10 to 1. All that counts is TEH W1N !!1... and the fuzzy feeling.

This is rather unfair and clearly an opinion formulated via reading forums. I'm not saying there aren't these types, but they certainly aren't the majority.

 

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2203

 
OP  7/10/13 11:56:40 PM#32
Originally posted by Pie_Rat
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by SysFail

Until there is something worth fighting for, i don't see any of the big clans going to war. AV have failed miserably in this aspect so far, but hopefully by the time summer is over, the game might have added some content that gives incentives to siege, but with AV already falling behind with their roadmap, it may be longer...

You can fight for the reason having some fun. Ok i agree that it is better if you have something worth fighting for but i just dont understand the mentality of these zergs. Sitting inside zap tower cities doing nothing is a mentality that will bring doom to this game.

Get out in the open world and create your own content if Aventurine fail to deliver.

 

The great majority of players in these so called hard core MMOs are spineless douchebags who only play to get that fuzzy feeling after they've deluded themselves into thinking they won at something. Doesn't matter if they outnumbered their foes 10 to 1. All that counts is TEH W1N !!1... and the fuzzy feeling.

Seems the mentality of DFUW players (read OP) and Aventurine failing to deliver content have taking it tolls to the numbers of active guildplayers -

https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?374046-Clans-that-are-currently-active

This feels like a repeat of DF1.

 

  ozmono

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/12/06
Posts: 1023

7/11/13 12:13:13 AM#33

Cannot really comment with any authority as I've only been playing the game two weeks but I can give you my impressions so far.

 

They have upset vets by doing things they needed to do to have any chance of success and which I think is good. I am primarily talking about safe zones but to a lesser extent feats and other things. The market and danger area patch should encourage people to fight more not that there wasn't lots of it anyway. The guild I'm in at the moment always has alot of stuff going on but it is extremely common that they need to muster together to protect their holdings. All and all I'm having alot of fun and from what I've seen so far (on the NA server, no experience with the EU one) what you say isn't true.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2203

 
OP  7/11/13 1:38:16 AM#34
Originally posted by ozmono

Cannot really comment with any authority as I've only been playing the game two weeks but I can give you my impressions so far.

 

They have upset vets by doing things they needed to do to have any chance of success and which I think is good. I am primarily talking about safe zones but to a lesser extent feats and other things. The market and danger area patch should encourage people to fight more not that there wasn't lots of it anyway. The guild I'm in at the moment always has alot of stuff going on but it is extremely common that they need to muster together to protect their holdings. All and all I'm having alot of fun and from what I've seen so far (on the NA server, no experience with the EU one) what you say isn't true.

They will loose even more casual players with last patch. Players that never left safe zones cause they were gatherers/crafters will just stop playing now. Being ganked in the so called "danger areas" 24/7 will have a very negative effect to the safe gamestyle they getting used too.

Guilds loosing active players is not surpricing at all if you read up on the mentality of the DFUW player or even better experience it as i have. Sitting safe in their zaptower cities and only choose to fight when outnumbering enemies isnt good for subscriber numbers in DFUW. Loosing arround 80% of active guild players in such a short time must be some kind of record in MMO game history.

 

 

  ozmono

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/12/06
Posts: 1023

7/11/13 2:19:10 AM#35
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by ozmono

Cannot really comment with any authority as I've only been playing the game two weeks but I can give you my impressions so far.

 

They have upset vets by doing things they needed to do to have any chance of success and which I think is good. I am primarily talking about safe zones but to a lesser extent feats and other things. The market and danger area patch should encourage people to fight more not that there wasn't lots of it anyway. The guild I'm in at the moment always has alot of stuff going on but it is extremely common that they need to muster together to protect their holdings. All and all I'm having alot of fun and from what I've seen so far (on the NA server, no experience with the EU one) what you say isn't true.

They will loose even more casual players with last patch. Players that never left safe zones cause they were gatherers/crafters will just stop playing now. Being ganked in the so called "danger areas" 24/7 will have a very negative effect to the safe gamestyle they getting used too.

Guilds loosing active players is not surpricing at all if you read up on the mentality of the DFUW player or even better experience it as i have. Sitting safe in their zaptower cities and only choose to fight when outnumbering enemies isnt good for subscriber numbers in DFUW. Loosing arround 80% of active guild players in such a short time must be some kind of record in MMO game history.

 

 

I'll just say I think this first. I think there are enough people still playing for the game to be fun still and I wouldn't be surprised if the game started to grow now. Warhammer had a worse retention rate as far as I understand it and almost every new game these days suffers from intial drops in population shortly after launch so that is to be expected aswel.

 

Secondly now there are markets it's easy for new players to trade for  stuff they need without ever leaving the safe zones. They won't be able to directly harvest rare resources but because of that the older more established players are more likely to fight over resources now they cannot get them in the safe zones. Or to put it another way, more likely to leave "their zaptower" cities as you put it and fight. As for people fighting only when they outnumber or outmatch their opponents that is to be expected, it's what happens in real life too. The side that thinks they are sure to lose rarely ever attacks a stronger opponent unless they feel conflict is inescapable. I don't see a reasonable way around that honestly. That said people still mix it up.

 

Thirdly and most importantly, as I said in my last post, I am not an authority on the game. I've only been playing two weeks so far but I am enjoying myself and these are my impressions and observations to date.

 

 

  Greymoor

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/30/10
Posts: 812

7/11/13 4:14:52 AM#36

https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?375192-Any-hints-on-when-Free-To-Play-F2P-will-hit

https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?375007-How-active-are-EU1/page2

gank squads everywhere. "
"
 
 
"This.

There is also plenty of small scale going on in carin / niff.

Also +1 to AQ for keeping jeradan so populated at all times "
 
 
 
"imo. eu1 is pretty damn populated, cant go anywere at primetime without getting random pvp.

and even at late nights and out on to the morning you can find small scale fights."
 
 
"non stop PvP for 6+ hours, many different groups around, gf's to all"
 
 
And all these quotes are people talking about the EU server. NA is even more populated.
  Greymoor

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/30/10
Posts: 812

7/11/13 4:17:17 AM#37
The current consensus of those playing EU atleast is that the population is increasing and activity is the highest it's been for a long time now. Not taking into account the standard drop in subs after the first month.
  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

7/11/13 4:32:34 AM#38
Originally posted by Aragon100

You can take pretty much all clans on EU, with a few exceptions, and you find this kind of behaviour. Guilds zerg up and sit inside their zaptower cities looking at each other. Doing just about nothing that would add some flavor to PvP and add some fun ingame.

And god forbid if anyone break this "safezone" gameplay and siege during primetime hours! Then the zergs get together and with pure numbers set the agenda of continuing this safezone gameplay.

A good example is Pandora that lost their city in a prime time siege (standard for EU is off-hour sieges) even though they were 2:1 up against The Blackhand Order and Liandrii (2 guilds that actually have some balls). Pandora then resieged after getting SUN and KDS together with Friendly Fire, Red Army to join them to get a whopping 6:1 advantage. 

That could some call politics but i call it pure lameness and a game where numbers mean just about everything and player skill mean very little. 

This kind of behavior tell us alot about the "safezone" mentality that even the self-preclaimed "hardcore" guilds practice when it comes to reality. Talking big wont change this.

Some could claim game is boring cause there is so little content, which it is, but why then Zerg jump the clans that try to bring some fun to the game?

Here is a thread that describe the lameness of DFUW EU sieges pretty well -

https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?371490-SUN-KDS-Pandora-Friendly-Fire-Red-Army-bring-133-to-the-gates-of-Erinthel

And here we have 2 good examples of what type of PvP these Zergs (Lux Arcana and SUN in this case) prefer, they call it events inside their city limit where they all are binded and with full access to guildbanks for fast reequipping, just amazing -

https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?372422-MarShral-Red-Wedding-event-Saturday-8-6

https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?372440-Server-PvP-event-question-who-would-turn-up

Why not take a hundred of your guild/alliance mates out of your zap tower cities and actually do something? Or would it be to few? 

 

Lol this not new when Darkfall 1 was in beta you had no towers and clan towns had no gates they where open AS IT SHOULD BE in full open free for all pvp MMO like in Asherons call Darktide.

There should be no bloody safezones at all in game types like this.

We already dicussed this early years before launch 2003-2006 then suddenly the whole attitude of gamers in general and even hardcore gamers changed and more and more opt for protection zones or ways that starters and small clans would be safe somehow and the IDIOTIC ZAPTOWERS  where born.

2008 it went from avarage whining to insane whining game should be more safe agains gankers/pk.

Many discussion also about all race clans.

Darkfall was at that point already lost a carebear game in the making.

First few months after launch where one big ZERGFEST.

Then came the AFK/MACRO/EXPLOITING(bloodwalling) and devlopers listend to the pansy whiners who want a more safe game gates where implemented and more towers.

I already with few others from AC-Darktide always try convince devs and community to go all red server no safezones no towers let the players make up the rule set not the game.

By now we know what happend more macroing more exploiting and clans sitting with there viginas getting catching sand in there protected clantowns, result gameworld empty.

DFUW is result of PANSY'S continuing ZERG and safezones plus more easy gameplay and girlycolored themepark UI

Thats why i dont play DFUW and play the much more pure hardcore game DayZ.

 

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2203

 
OP  7/11/13 4:46:31 AM#39
Originally posted by Greymoor

https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?375192-Any-hints-on-when-Free-To-Play-F2P-will-hit

https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?375007-How-active-are-EU1/page2

gank squads everywhere. "
"
 
 
"This.

There is also plenty of small scale going on in carin / niff.

Also +1 to AQ for keeping jeradan so populated at all times "
 
 
 
"imo. eu1 is pretty damn populated, cant go anywere at primetime without getting random pvp.

and even at late nights and out on to the morning you can find small scale fights."
 
 
"non stop PvP for 6+ hours, many different groups around, gf's to all"
 
 
And all these quotes are people talking about the EU server. NA is even more populated.

Guild activity have gone down. Have it dropped 80% or 50%?

I dunno since it is hard to get accurate active players week for week but guilds have lost loads of active players last months. 

https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?374046-Clans-that-are-currently-active

You claiming " eu1 is pretty damn populated" just isnt right. Subscribers is at a record low and it is keep falling.

Aventurine need to get alot more content into the game and players need to stop zerging and sitting inside their zap tower cities.

 

 

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2203

 
OP  7/11/13 4:50:44 AM#40
Originally posted by Greymoor
The current consensus of those playing EU atleast is that the population is increasing and activity is the highest it's been for a long time now. Not taking into account the standard drop in subs after the first month.

Players that been playing from start say that game is loosing subscribers in a record time, way faster then the decrease we saw in DF1.

Did you even read the thread i was reffering too?

Guilds like Zerg Mercs that had 700 active from start now have less then 100, Sun have lost most of their players and so have all other guilds. I have no clue whatsoever where you get your numbers from that inform us that the game is increasing it subscriber numbers? It's just not true.

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