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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I am SICK and TIRED of WoW clones

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209 posts found
  DavisFlight

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

6/03/13 4:55:00 PM#61
Originally posted by mikuniman
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by mikuniman
You folks throw around the word fail like it's free, what does it really mean? Even that slew of titles colddog posted almost all are still around. Still around means they're making money and in a business sense doesn't mean failure.

Seriously? So if a game has say, 300 million budget, bigger than any MMO in history, collapses within a month, almost the entire staff layed off, the founders of the company that made the game quit the business, the stocks of the publisher drops like so many falling rocks, and the game scrambles to go free to play... but it's still running so that investors can hope to some day recoup their losses.... that's a success? Are you mad?

Sure I would be disappointed if I made a bad choice and didn't feel I got my moneys' worth. But then again it was my bad choice. If I go see a 300 million dollar movie and I think it' crap doesn't mean you would. My point being yes if they are still able to stay in business it is, if they can't and have to close shop then they failed.

I don't think you understood. In the business world, firing 80% of your staff and taking 5 years just to make back what it cost to create the product, is a complete and utter failure. It is still open because it cannot afford to shut down.

  ZombieKen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4440

I don't Forum PVP. If that's what you're looking for, try someone else.

6/03/13 4:55:46 PM#62
Originally posted by Grailer

[mod edit]

 

Old WoW (Vanilla) was decent fun, and plenty of adults played it, myself included. Many stayed through Burning Crusade.

 

The only thing that killed it for me was the "improvements".  When it became fast leveling, automatic cross-realm grouping, raid centric, and heavily phased long-arc storyline questing, it just didn't feel like the same game.

 

http://www.LMORPG.com My genre blog.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6496

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

6/03/13 4:57:22 PM#63
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Seriously? So if a game has say, 300 million budget, bigger than any MMO in history, collapses within a month, almost the entire staff layed off, the founders of the company that made the game quit the business, the stocks of the publisher drops like so many falling rocks, and the game scrambles to go free to play... but it's still running so that investors can hope to some day recoup their losses.... that's a success? Are you mad?

The problem comes when they also (as they so frequently do) call WoW a Fail.

Financially, it would be ridiculous to posit it a failure. It's been funding Activision, and Vivendi, for years.

Obviously, different criteria being used. Same label applied in either case.

Medium-successful game, GW2? Nope, still some guys calling it a fail.

I would venture to say there is no game that is not a fail, to someone(s) on this site.

Meaning, of course, that there are no games that are successes (self-evidently false, by either standard). If MMOs weren't moderately profitable in the long term (even in the short), there wouldn't be so many companies eager to make the next, right?

So either label is just about as meaningless as it is possible to be, because of careless and unchallenged usage, emotional arguments, and lots and lots and lots of rote repetition....and most of all, moving goalposts. Redefine our term to apply it as either a monetary rating, or a quality rating, as suits our argument (amphiboly).

 

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  DavisFlight

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

6/03/13 4:58:11 PM#64
Originally posted by ZombieKen
Originally posted by Grailer

[mod edit]

 

Old WoW (Vanilla) was decent fun, and plenty of adults played it, myself included. Many stayed through Burning Crusade.

 

 

And for the majority of the core MMO base, it was far too simple and poorly designed even in vanilla. I always marvel at the people who claimed old WoW was hardcore. WoW has NEVER been hardcore.

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2782

6/03/13 5:00:17 PM#65
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by mikuniman
Originally posted by Grailer
[mod edit]

 

 

it's called fantasy man, people roll with the opposite of RL. Not saying I do it, but you can bet a fair amount of grown men are rolling lolita warriors types. I think with Wow it was more about the content having something for just about every walk of life.

He's not questioning fantasy. He's wondering how intelligent human beings can have so much fun doing insanely simple, easy, poorly designed chores, and pay money for it. There is no content for hardcore raiders. There's no content for hardcore PvPers. There's no content for people who like crafting. There's no content for people who love housing. There's no content for people who like public dungeons and grouping up.

And yet, here we are, (supposedly) intelligent human beings, debating on a forum what constitutes fun for other people.

 

 

I really don't know why, but I am amazed everyday on this board by the amount of people who can't understand that other people have different tastes. It's like a bunch of 5-year olds in here screaming "chocolate is better than vanilla, vanilla is stupid".

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  mikuniman

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/28/06
Posts: 300

6/03/13 5:00:18 PM#66
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by mikuniman
Originally posted by Grailer
[mod edit]

 

 

it's called fantasy man, people roll with the opposite of RL. Not saying I do it, but you can bet a fair amount of grown men are rolling lolita warriors types. I think with Wow it was more about the content having something for just about every walk of life.

He's not questioning fantasy. He's wondering how intelligent human beings can have so much fun doing insanely simple, easy, poorly designed chores, and pay money for it. There is no content for hardcore raiders. There's no content for hardcore PvPers. There's no content for people who like crafting. There's no content for people who love housing. There's no content for people who like public dungeons and grouping up.

I don't think so he was comparing a theme of content not quality of content.  What you're talking about is your opinion of what's considered quality content.  Apparently 9 million others beg to differ.

  Purutzil

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2956

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

6/03/13 5:03:00 PM#67
Originally posted by Gorwe

In the genre plagued by uncreative games and by the drive to clone WoW's success, I am looking for good and creative games.

What an oxymoron!

I just can't stand tab target, bland quests, Dungeon grinds, reputation grinds, shallow stories, WoW combat, WoW animations, stand to cast, focus on the endgame, gameworld so bland that players have to bring it to life with an actual Heavy RP, "crafting", ... I mean this has got to end at some point or the other. We've sacrificed Conan, Warhammer, Star Trek, Star Wars, The Elder Scrolls(soon), DnD(Neverwinter- it should've been NWN 3!), LoTR(almost forgot this one lol!)... WHERE DOES THIS STOP???

I agree that we are seeing movement towards both sandboxes and hybrids, but currently we are in the gutter with all the shits, excrements and stuff. Woe be upon this genre...

(I think I'll play TSW+singleplayers until these suits{whose ties are so tight around their necks that they can't think-not enough O2} wake up and realise that you CAN'T REPLICATE WoW's success! Hell, even Blizz can't replicate that "perfect storm", let alone others.)

Is this a good idea? Is anyone else tired of current "MMOs"?

I want MMORPGs back, damn it!!!

So you can't stand an Everquest Clone, cause thats the game you describe here that wow took after, not WoW. Lets stop giving WoW credit for things it was NOT the first to do, and lets stop with the ignorance that everything is a clone since it does stuff that a GENRE does. Not to mention some games listed you even threw up that... aren't even close? Then again throwing the term clone I assume that means anything thats the same genre is automatically a clone, so FPS games are all clones all the way back to doom and so on and so forth.

 

Honestly off this post... I just don't think suggesting anything is worth wild if your view point on what defines a clone is just so narrow and extremely broad. I'd say interacting in real life and I'd almost think you would jump on it claiming its a wow clone since you do quests (your job) with a lame story and lack luster 'combat' of doing your work.

  ZombieKen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4440

I don't Forum PVP. If that's what you're looking for, try someone else.

6/03/13 5:04:27 PM#68
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by ZombieKen
Originally posted by Grailer

[mod edit]

 

Old WoW (Vanilla) was decent fun, and plenty of adults played it, myself included. Many stayed through Burning Crusade.

 

 

And for the majority of the core MMO base, it was far too simple and poorly designed even in vanilla. I always marvel at the people who claimed old WoW was hardcore. WoW has NEVER been hardcore.

 

If the majority felt it too simple and poorly designed, then why did so many games dive in 2005 to 2007 when WoW started growth?

 

http://www.LMORPG.com My genre blog.

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2782

6/03/13 5:04:54 PM#69
Originally posted by Purutzil
Originally posted by Gorwe

In the genre plagued by uncreative games and by the drive to clone WoW's success, I am looking for good and creative games.

What an oxymoron!

I just can't stand tab target, bland quests, Dungeon grinds, reputation grinds, shallow stories, WoW combat, WoW animations, stand to cast, focus on the endgame, gameworld so bland that players have to bring it to life with an actual Heavy RP, "crafting", ... I mean this has got to end at some point or the other. We've sacrificed Conan, Warhammer, Star Trek, Star Wars, The Elder Scrolls(soon), DnD(Neverwinter- it should've been NWN 3!), LoTR(almost forgot this one lol!)... WHERE DOES THIS STOP???

I agree that we are seeing movement towards both sandboxes and hybrids, but currently we are in the gutter with all the shits, excrements and stuff. Woe be upon this genre...

(I think I'll play TSW+singleplayers until these suits{whose ties are so tight around their necks that they can't think-not enough O2} wake up and realise that you CAN'T REPLICATE WoW's success! Hell, even Blizz can't replicate that "perfect storm", let alone others.)

Is this a good idea? Is anyone else tired of current "MMOs"?

I want MMORPGs back, damn it!!!

So you can't stand an Everquest Clone, cause thats the game you describe here that wow took after, not WoW. Lets stop giving WoW credit for things it was NOT the first to do, and lets stop with the ignorance that everything is a clone since it does stuff that a GENRE does. Not to mention some games listed you even threw up that... aren't even close? Then again throwing the term clone I assume that means anything thats the same genre is automatically a clone, so FPS games are all clones all the way back to doom and so on and so forth.

 

Honestly off this post... I just don't think suggesting anything is worth wild if your view point on what defines a clone is just so narrow and extremely broad. I'd say interacting in real life and I'd almost think you would jump on it claiming its a wow clone since you do quests (your job) with a lame story and lack luster 'combat' of doing your work.

Bastard! Doom was a Wolfenstien 3D clone!

 

/grumble /grumble /grumble

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  mikuniman

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/28/06
Posts: 300

6/03/13 5:14:02 PM#70
Originally posted by WhiteLantern
you were like the mom that stepped in and told the kids to shut up and act like adults..
the graphs are out and mathletes are posting, cya
  Gorwe

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 2285

 
OP  6/03/13 5:42:30 PM#71
Ok. I need to step in and clarify few things:

WoW is not a fail. It's financials and Vanilla era Prove that. Also, I am aware of EQ and that WoW copied it and streamlined it. Tho, there were UO, meridian 59, AC, ... Why out of all those potential subgenres only EQs has such a following?
Anyhow, WoW's expansions are fail(ESPECIALLY Cata and MoP). WoTLK a bit less. I will not say a single word vs WoW Vanilla. But we all know that all the clones are not cloning Vanilla WoW, but WoTLK WoW. And that by itself speaks volumes.

About TSW, yes I am aware that it is very much a Themepark. But, it is different enough. You don't feel that the only good part of the game are the dungeons(one thing that is oh so common in clones), though they are awesome. Single-player things are top notch. It is not another boring quests/bland setting/load everything on 8896 skillbars and GO GO GO! Nope. That's why I love it(Besides the thing that it features conspiracy theories, a thing I REALLY love reading about). Also, awesome community. They are even rediculing the Themeparks(listen carefully to what Nick Winters is saying ;) ).

As for a good point many of you brought out, yes I agree that many of these clones aren't bad games. They are bad clones. Imagine Rift without WoW nonsense. How about WAR without WoW nonsense? Maybe LoTRO? You get the point. Many of them are interesting and pretty nice on their own, but they are living in a shadow of collosal celebrity. Imagine a fine looking girl and she could be pretty sexy and pretty on her own in her own style, but she decided to copy, idk, Beyonce and now looks just cheap as a result. This analogy is what's wrong with those clones. They should just make a game that can stand on its own, without any major assistance from a Fanbase of a certain another game(WoW)-or ANY other game for that matter!

As for you suggestions, Thank you! But I dislike PvP and seeing how most sandboxes of today think that sandbox = OPvP, that just ruins them completely for me. I dislike PvP in me RPG. I Like it in other genres though(not that much, but still...). That's the shithole that I and presumably many others find ourselves in today when talking about MMO genre. Either play PvE and endure clones or play PvP and play sandboxes(most of us seem not to like at least one thing at the either side of that OR).

Big Thank you for all the responses! Keep the discussion going! <3
  Johnie-Marz

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/09
Posts: 871

6/03/13 6:20:38 PM#72
Originally posted by mikuniman
Originally posted by WhiteLantern
you were like the mom that stepped in and told the kids to shut up and act like adults..
the graphs are out and mathletes are posting, cya

Facts are ruining my rant!!!!

  Johnie-Marz

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/09
Posts: 871

6/03/13 6:24:01 PM#73
Originally posted by ZombieKen
Originally posted by Grailer

[mod edit]

 

Old WoW (Vanilla) was decent fun, and plenty of adults played it, myself included. Many stayed through Burning Crusade.

 

The only thing that killed it for me was the "improvements".  When it became fast leveling, automatic cross-realm grouping, raid centric, and heavily phased long-arc storyline questing, it just didn't feel like the same game.

 

I would agree with much of that. I would add Daily quest as well. 

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16587

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

6/03/13 6:42:55 PM#74
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by mikuniman
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by mikuniman
You folks throw around the word fail like it's free, what does it really mean? Even that slew of titles colddog posted almost all are still around. Still around means they're making money and in a business sense doesn't mean failure.

Seriously? So if a game has say, 300 million budget, bigger than any MMO in history, collapses within a month, almost the entire staff layed off, the founders of the company that made the game quit the business, the stocks of the publisher drops like so many falling rocks, and the game scrambles to go free to play... but it's still running so that investors can hope to some day recoup their losses.... that's a success? Are you mad?

Sure I would be disappointed if I made a bad choice and didn't feel I got my moneys' worth. But then again it was my bad choice. If I go see a 300 million dollar movie and I think it' crap doesn't mean you would. My point being yes if they are still able to stay in business it is, if they can't and have to close shop then they failed.

I don't think you understood. In the business world, firing 80% of your staff and taking 5 years just to make back what it cost to create the product, is a complete and utter failure. It is still open because it cannot afford to shut down.

TOR will be paid off in five years you say?  Thanks for the info.....

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Ventlus

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/10
Posts: 96

6/03/13 6:42:57 PM#75
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Seriously? So if a game has say, 300 million budget, bigger than any MMO in history, collapses within a month, almost the entire staff layed off, the founders of the company that made the game quit the business, the stocks of the publisher drops like so many falling rocks, and the game scrambles to go free to play... but it's still running so that investors can hope to some day recoup their losses.... that's a success? Are you mad?

The problem comes when they also (as they so frequently do) call WoW a Fail.

Financially, it would be ridiculous to posit it a failure. It's been funding Activision, and Vivendi, for years.

Obviously, different criteria being used. Same label applied in either case.

Medium-successful game, GW2? Nope, still some guys calling it a fail.

I would venture to say there is no game that is not a fail, to someone(s) on this site.

Meaning, of course, that there are no games that are successes (self-evidently false, by either standard). If MMOs weren't moderately profitable in the long term (even in the short), there wouldn't be so many companies eager to make the next, right?

So either label is just about as meaningless as it is possible to be, because of careless and unchallenged usage, emotional arguments, and lots and lots and lots of rote repetition....and most of all, moving goalposts. Redefine our term to apply it as either a monetary rating, or a quality rating, as suits our argument (amphiboly).

 

I consider GW2 a fail :<

 

But thats more of an opinion then how the game actually has did/done thus far. Disappointment more so, they had so many great features in GW1 that made it, it's own original game and was like f that lets throw it all away and go to the more generic MMO standard (WoW clone if you want to call it that, but its just generic to me). As for all MMO's yea haven't done so good and making their own original game, but ill just play FFXIV which has some of those elements of generic MMO now but stick to the FF playstyle which is more for me xD

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

6/03/13 7:08:51 PM#76
By the OP's logic, Half Life2 is a doom clone and should try to be its own game. Which is some really bizzare logic.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  rodingo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 2315

6/03/13 7:26:52 PM#77
The people who use the term "WoW clone" are just as uncreative as the devs that keep making WoW clones.  See what I did there?

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  Gorwe

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 2285

 
OP  6/03/13 7:29:08 PM#78
After all I said(even my last post), I still get those posts like jpnz's.

I elaborated my standpoint and what I actually meant. Half Life could or could not be a doom clone, but even if it is, it is a FREAKISHLY GOOD one at that. I was lamenting all the bad ones...
  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 5212

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

6/03/13 7:31:38 PM#79
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by mikuniman
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by mikuniman
You folks throw around the word fail like it's free, what does it really mean? Even that slew of titles colddog posted almost all are still around. Still around means they're making money and in a business sense doesn't mean failure.

Seriously? So if a game has say, 300 million budget, bigger than any MMO in history, collapses within a month, almost the entire staff layed off, the founders of the company that made the game quit the business, the stocks of the publisher drops like so many falling rocks, and the game scrambles to go free to play... but it's still running so that investors can hope to some day recoup their losses.... that's a success? Are you mad?

Sure I would be disappointed if I made a bad choice and didn't feel I got my moneys' worth. But then again it was my bad choice. If I go see a 300 million dollar movie and I think it' crap doesn't mean you would. My point being yes if they are still able to stay in business it is, if they can't and have to close shop then they failed.

I don't think you understood. In the business world, firing 80% of your staff and taking 5 years just to make back what it cost to create the product, is a complete and utter failure. It is still open because it cannot afford to shut down.

TOR will be paid off in five years you say?  Thanks for the info.....

2 million boxes sold.  500,000 subs for longer than a year and current active 500,000 subs with 2 million f2p players. Likely it's paid off now. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  DavisFlight

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2604

6/03/13 7:31:56 PM#80
Originally posted by WhiteLantern
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by mikuniman
Originally posted by Grailer
[mod edit]

 

 

it's called fantasy man, people roll with the opposite of RL. Not saying I do it, but you can bet a fair amount of grown men are rolling lolita warriors types. I think with Wow it was more about the content having something for just about every walk of life.

He's not questioning fantasy. He's wondering how intelligent human beings can have so much fun doing insanely simple, easy, poorly designed chores, and pay money for it. There is no content for hardcore raiders. There's no content for hardcore PvPers. There's no content for people who like crafting. There's no content for people who love housing. There's no content for people who like public dungeons and grouping up.

And yet, here we are, (supposedly) intelligent human beings, debating on a forum what constitutes fun for other people.

 

I really don't know why, but I am amazed everyday on this board by the amount of people who can't understand that other people have different tastes. It's like a bunch of 5-year olds in here screaming "chocolate is better than vanilla, vanilla is stupid".

There is some degree of objectivity when it comes to games, and WoW is, objectively inferior in MANY ways.

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