Trending Games | EverQuest Next | Guild Wars 2 | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | World of Warcraft

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,920,723 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,312,393
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » That MMO die so fast is the result of F2P.

9 Pages First « 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 » Search
173 posts found
  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4153

6/02/13 5:43:14 PM#101

imho it's the result of an over-saturated genre. Way too many games and folks just aren't willing to just stick around long enough to form long term social bonds anymore.

 

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

6/02/13 5:44:43 PM#102
Originally posted by tkreep
isnt the result of f2p happens because the mmo dies as a p2p?

Speak not those words. This isn't a thread for logic.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2564

6/02/13 5:47:55 PM#103
Originally posted by Amjoco

imho it's the result of an over-saturated genre. Way too many games and folks just aren't willing to just stick around long enough to form long term social bonds anymore.

 

Nope - it is because people are trying to relive their first MMO experience/feeling. They will bounce and complain about it but not stick around to actually give a game a chance.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 4153

6/02/13 6:01:24 PM#104
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Amjoco

imho it's the result of an over-saturated genre. Way too many games and folks just aren't willing to just stick around long enough to form long term social bonds anymore.

 

Nope - it is because people are trying to relive their first MMO experience/feeling. They will bounce and complain about it but not stick around to actually give a game a chance.

Exactly my thoughts too. I have to say I am guilty of this sometimes too. I do try my best to get into the games atmosphere by reading up on it's lore, trying to craft, and enjoy pve as much as possible. The lure of thousands of other games calls, and it is easier than not to slip away and start something else.

We need one fantasy, one sci-fi, and one steam punk title per category and thats all! lol

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1939

6/03/13 6:10:03 AM#105
Originally posted by botrytis
it is because people are trying to relive their first MMO experience/feeling. They will bounce and complain about it but not stick around to actually give a game a chance.

That's not right, people who played old MMO are a tiny percentage of the MMO playerbase.

F2P likely allows people to bounce from MMO to MMO.

P2P is an investment, you invest in the game and the people who play it, F2P is like a one night stand for most players, they play the games as if they were single player games.

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1939

6/03/13 6:14:13 AM#106
My guess is that letting F2P die is part of the business strategy. They want as much money as fast as possible before players leave the game, it's easiest to get money from people while they're leveling up, the faster you level the more of a race it becomes for some and you end up with players spending hundreds of dollars in a few weeks. After that neither the players or the company care about the game anymore.
  Derros

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1026

6/03/13 6:20:09 AM#107
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by botrytis
it is because people are trying to relive their first MMO experience/feeling. They will bounce and complain about it but not stick around to actually give a game a chance.

That's not right, people who played old MMO are a tiny percentage of the MMO playerbase.

F2P likely allows people to bounce from MMO to MMO.

P2P is an investment, you invest in the game and the people who play it, F2P is like a one night stand for most players, they play the games as if they were single player games.

To me, there seems to be something wrong with a game if the main reason you get people to keep playing, is that they feel obligated to, because of a sub. 

 

Not to mention most MMOs goes F2P eventually anyway, so most will just wait for that to happen, and not adopt it at launch.  It kinda becomes a self fulfilling prophecy in that regard. 

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1939

6/03/13 6:24:40 AM#108
Originally posted by Derros

To me, there seems to be something wrong with a game if the main reason you get people to keep playing, is that they feel obligated to, because of a sub. 

Not really, the strongest relationships are all formed under artificial conditions, I know of no natural conditions in which a community grows.

 

-prison bonds: artificially forced environment

-school bonds: artificially forced environment

-bus / train: artitficially forced environment

-restaurant: artificially forced environment

 

When people say it's the fault of the players that there's no community, I say wrong, it's the fault of the game. The way the game works, the way it monetizes, the way it enforces grouping, either creates an environment of longevity or a transient experience, F2P are transient.

 

The mere fact you need to pay an upfront cost by buying the game in P2P means people are more willing to build a community, in F2P 90% of the players will stop playing anyway so why even build a community that is going to fall apart anyway.

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

6/03/13 6:28:23 AM#109

Bringing almost everyday a new mmo on markte prolly help alot killing off the genre.

Player base has changed so much it also help alinate more and more from massive multiplayer gameworlds.

Dumb down versions these days also help alot.

Not to mention cheating exploiting bots and cashshops also help killing mmo's.

These are few reason why mmo's fail so much.

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

6/03/13 6:31:59 AM#110
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Derros

To me, there seems to be something wrong with a game if the main reason you get people to keep playing, is that they feel obligated to, because of a sub. 

Not really, the strongest relationships are all formed under artificial conditions, I know of no natural conditions in which a community grows.

 

-prison bonds: artificially forced environment

-school bonds: artificially forced environment

-bus / train: artitficially forced environment

-restaurant: artificially forced environment

 

When people say it's the fault of the players that there's no community, I say wrong, it's the fault of the game. The way the game works, the way it monetizes, the way it enforces grouping, either creates an environment of longevity or a transient experience, F2P are transient.

 

The mere fact you need to pay an upfront cost by buying the game in P2P means people are more willing to build a community, in F2P 90% of the players will stop playing anyway so why even build a community that is going to fall apart anyway.

Ive played a couple of mmo's P2P and your ssumption that people are willing to invest in good community its just FALSE thus not true.

Only one i can remember when it still was payed sub was Sage of Ryzom community and early days of Asheron's call 2.

Darkfall 1 was awesome game could been awesome community small group realy tried making it great(EU-1 server) but on massive scale cheaters exploiters and afk macrobastards ruined game totally(no reason to cheat at all ive played 2.5 years DFO 1 and never cheated/exploit/macroed ones)gamers aslo ruin mmo's.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3451

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

6/03/13 6:32:37 AM#111


Originally posted by Boneserino
It is the players, not the MMO's, that are the problem.

This guy gets it.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1939

6/03/13 6:35:29 AM#112
Originally posted by GroovyFlower

Ive played a couple of mmo's P2P and your ssumption that people are willing to invest in good community its just FALSE thus not true.

When your account depends on your behavior on the forum and in the game, people do invest in a community.

A F2P allows you to be a jerk to other people, it allows you to be a stick in the wheel instead of a cog. Most F2P go one step further and allow you to change your name on the fly, making you completely anonymous.

P2P is an investment, of your time, your money, and the result is a better community where reputation and your account matters.

People who play P2P pay a high upfront game cost, $50 or more, just to enter the game. People who play F2P are often there to "check it out", often without any intention of staying, often with the intention to cause trouble.

In fact I have heard people say many times in F2P: "I don't care if they ban me, I'll just make a new account"

The account in F2P has no value, the game has no value, F2P are transient. And even if there are player there willing to invest time into a community, it's diluted by the number of people who don't care about community in F2P.

  Adokas

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/12
Posts: 221

6/03/13 6:42:29 AM#113
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by GroovyFlower

Ive played a couple of mmo's P2P and your ssumption that people are willing to invest in good community its just FALSE thus not true.

When your account depends on your behavior on the forum and in the game, people do invest in a community.

A F2P allows you to be a jerk to other people, it allows you to be a stick in the wheel instead of a cog. Most F2P go one step further and allow you to change your name on the fly, making you completely anonymous.

P2P is an investment, of your time, your money, and the result is a better community where reputation and your account matters.

I agree with this 100%. You will always find bad apples in any situation, of course. But overall it's just a better experience when people have a reason to invest in the community.

I believe games go F2P because they are simply not good enough. World of Warcraft in a new skin. Every single MMO I have played since I left WoW, has felt like WoW, just with a new skin. The exception being EVE Online. THAT is why they go F2P. Players have done it all before. There's no depth, there's no longevity, there's no reason to stay in something they have essentially done a thousand times over, just with a new look.

Create something with depth, and something that entices players to want to stay for a long time, then you'll have people who want to invest. Both with their money, and in the community.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3171

6/03/13 7:02:43 AM#114

Modern MMO's have been shaped by the demands of the average MMO player.

 

The average player doesn't play one game for more than 2 to 3 months (if that long).

 

Levelling has to be fast, because if they can't "beat the game" (hit level cap) in under a month, they'll get bored and frustrated and hop to another game.

 

They prefer F2P, because they jump from game to game so often that B2P and P2P would be totally "unaffordable" for them. It would be unaffordable, because they also need cash to spend on all the console games they'll be buying between playing the F2P MMO's. Unfortunately, there's no way to play the new console games for "free"...

  Derros

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1026

6/03/13 7:11:03 AM#115
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by GroovyFlower

Ive played a couple of mmo's P2P and your ssumption that people are willing to invest in good community its just FALSE thus not true.

When your account depends on your behavior on the forum and in the game, people do invest in a community.

A F2P allows you to be a jerk to other people, it allows you to be a stick in the wheel instead of a cog. Most F2P go one step further and allow you to change your name on the fly, making you completely anonymous.

P2P is an investment, of your time, your money, and the result is a better community where reputation and your account matters.

People who play P2P pay a high upfront game cost, $50 or more, just to enter the game. People who play F2P are often there to "check it out", often without any intention of staying, often with the intention to cause trouble.

In fact I have heard people say many times in F2P: "I don't care if they ban me, I'll just make a new account"

The account in F2P has no value, the game has no value, F2P are transient. And even if there are player there willing to invest time into a community, it's diluted by the number of people who don't care about community in F2P.

I guess my issue is that most p2p mmos are also transient.  Everything since WoW has seen high initial adoption with a fast drop off a month later after the first 30 days runs out, and often times horrible/nonexistant communities.  The box price didnt really seem to do anything to stop people from dropping it.

 

I will agree that communities form under artificial conditions, but payment model is not one of those I would focus on, but rather player interdependancy.  Have crafter type players who cant kill stuff well, killer type players who cant craft well, and all kinds of things in between.  Anarchy Online was the last game I played that had a system like this.  If you put points into your crafting skills, that took away from your combat skills.  People needed certain classes for buffs, so that they could squeeze into the latest armor/weapons/implants.  People would hang out selling buffs and tradeskills and just chat it up, since there was nothing else to do while spamming "WTS buffs!".

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

6/03/13 7:22:38 AM#116

The first four sentences were topics of conversation before DDO's big F2P switch. Blaming F2P for a condition that existed before F2P was prevalent doesn't make much sense.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Thane

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1963

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

6/03/13 7:31:12 AM#117
Originally posted by Waterlily

Have you noticed how there are hundreds of MMO but they all die off in a matter of months.

nope, i haven't. playing wow for nearly 8 years now.

Have you noticed that people jump from MMO to MMO.

did i mention i play wow for 8 years? also, all "other" mmos i play now and then are TSW and gw2, and i didn't jump from them either.

Have you noticed how communities in MMO are dead, no one really gives a damn anymore.

funny, my guild doesn't feel dead.

Have you noticed how you seem to level to the cap in a matter of weeks.

 errr.... yea... no. took me 8 years to get my char in wow to where he is now :P

In a F2P MMO all the freeloaders bail the ship once they hit the paywall after a few weeks, the ones who get tired of having to pay to progress bail the ship a few weeks after, and the whales is all that's left, but they jump ship too once they realise they're competing against themselves and no longer have a monetary edge over freeloaders.

As a result, no one joins older F2P, since they would need to spend hundreds of dollars to compete with the whales. The MMO simply die.

As a result the quality of the MMO goes down too, since the companies make dying MMO after dying MMO, to rake in cash from the whales.

In China MMo last a couple of months, and they shut them down. This is the future of F2P MMO, completely meaningless casino adventures. Congorats.

imo it's not the f2p that's the blame, but the gamers.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Grailer

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 873

6/03/13 7:34:00 AM#118
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Modern MMO's have been shaped by the demands of the average MMO player.

 

The average player doesn't play one game for more than 2 to 3 months (if that long).

 

Levelling has to be fast, because if they can't "beat the game" (hit level cap) in under a month, they'll get bored and frustrated and hop to another game.

 

They prefer F2P, because they jump from game to game so often that B2P and P2P would be totally "unaffordable" for them. It would be unaffordable, because they also need cash to spend on all the console games they'll be buying between playing the F2P MMO's. Unfortunately, there's no way to play the new console games for "free"...

why would I want free loaders in my game .  I would make levelling super slow so that there are no flavour of the month gamers at end game , they would be dedicated players who put in time and effort to reap the rewards of end game .

 

if its FTP all the more reason to make levelling much longer and sell runes that give faster EXP   ..

  Alders

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1762

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

6/03/13 7:36:27 AM#119
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Derros

To me, there seems to be something wrong with a game if the main reason you get people to keep playing, is that they feel obligated to, because of a sub. 

Not really, the strongest relationships are all formed under artificial conditions, I know of no natural conditions in which a community grows.

 

-prison bonds: artificially forced environment

-school bonds: artificially forced environment

-bus / train: artitficially forced environment

-restaurant: artificially forced environment

 

When people say it's the fault of the players that there's no community, I say wrong, it's the fault of the game. The way the game works, the way it monetizes, the way it enforces grouping, either creates an environment of longevity or a transient experience, F2P are transient.

 

The mere fact you need to pay an upfront cost by buying the game in P2P means people are more willing to build a community, in F2P 90% of the players will stop playing anyway so why even build a community that is going to fall apart anyway.

You're using 2 different aspects and calling them the same.

Forced interdependency builds communities, regardless of payment model.  You didn't see players hopping around oldschool MMO's because they required a huge time investment, reliance on others for everything, and reputation meant everything.  None of those factors apply to current MMO's regardless of model.

Sure the barrier to entry is removed because they're free, but when you can do everything solo, then players form zero attachments with it or its players.  The game system is way more important than its payment model.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6411

6/03/13 7:38:32 AM#120
Originally posted by Waterlily

Have you noticed how there are hundreds of MMO but they all die off in a matter of months.

Have you noticed that people jump from MMO to MMO.

Have you noticed how communities in MMO are dead, no one really gives a damn anymore.

Have you noticed how you seem to level to the cap in a matter of weeks.

 

In a F2P MMO all the freeloaders bail the ship once they hit the paywall after a few weeks, the ones who get tired of having to pay to progress bail the ship a few weeks after, and the whales is all that's left, but they jump ship too once they realise they're competing against themselves and no longer have a monetary edge over freeloaders.

As a result, no one joins older F2P, since they would need to spend hundreds of dollars to compete with the whales. The MMO simply die.

As a result the quality of the MMO goes down too, since the companies make dying MMO after dying MMO, to rake in cash from the whales.

In China MMo last a couple of months, and they shut them down. This is the future of F2P MMO, completely meaningless casino adventures. Congorats.

You know nothing Jon Snow

9 Pages First « 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 » Search