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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » That MMO die so fast is the result of F2P.

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173 posts found
  Bcuda

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/13
Posts: 60

6/02/13 12:49:02 PM#41
I say bring back the hell levels in eq. when it takes months to move up. And don't charge me for a bag or a horse. Charge me for a character slot. And ill pay for an account.
  Blackaddera

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 70

6/02/13 12:49:47 PM#42
IMO the prob is that most new MMO's you see these days you burn through the content in days. Take Neverwinter for instance: I started playing an assassin 2 days ago, almost lvl 60 now. For the decent items you need to pay. I'm sorry but I'm not going to do that. On the other hand for a game like Wildstar I'll be willing to pay 70 Euro and a sub of 25 Euro a month.

the steel shines red with enemy blood. It sings of victory, granted by the gods. And as they return bleeding but proud, the horizon burns and the song is ringing LOUD!

  danwest58

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 493

6/02/13 12:50:53 PM#43
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by danwest58
 

How is it the I want it now crowd?  Look at neverwinter to get the same mount that is $40 in the cashshop you need to farm AD for weeks on end.  If you are willing to put several hours a day into it you will get it in a shorter amount of time.  VS having a tough quest line like the pali did in WoW.  It took you a few days to get the mount if you had a good group to get through the scholo part of the quest.  It didnt take weeks on end or money to get it.  You got it by doing the quest and finding a good group to finish the quest chain.  

 You taking something specific while I am talking in general.

I sure would love to see some sort of means to get a mount by certain quest in Neverwinter instead of buying them with Zen or Trade Bars. Then again for a few gold you can buy mounts , might not be as diverse as Zen bought mounts but it will do the job. Sorry but I can accept it as is, you don't have to, I just might enjoy the game differently compared to you.

But that was not what my reply was about
 

I agree that right now MMOs are doing things wrong.  Yes Effort should be required to get something in game.  I do believe it shouldn't be months worth of effort for a mount thats just crazy.  The truth is MMOs lost the art of balancing effort and time sinks with making a game for everyone.

  Grahor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/11
Posts: 854

6/02/13 12:53:40 PM#44

>>Have you noticed how there are hundreds of MMO but they all die off in a matter of months.<<

Including P2P mmos. So it's not a problem of F2P, is it?

>>Have you noticed that people jump from MMO to MMO.<<

Yes, because I have no interest in "investing" my life into a game. I'm playing MMOs to have a bit of fun after work, if my family life allows me. Then (after a couple of months of casual playing) I've seen everything this MMO has to offer, I'm getting bored, I'm going to another one.

 

There is no power in the world that will make me log in to repeat "dailies" or to "raid" or another pointless boring idiotism. There is no "end game" for me because the game has ended; it's over; there is no, and never will be, nothing further of interest for me in this game.

>>Have you noticed how communities in MMO are dead, no one really gives a damn anymore.<<

Because I'm not looking for freaking friends in MMOs. I'm not interesting in developing relationships or "investing" in the "community". I have family and real-life friends, I barely have enough time to invest in relationships with THEM, MMO communities may go hang themselves.

 

>>Have you noticed how you seem to level to the cap in a matter of weeks.<<

No, I haven't. Having only time to play a couple of hours 2-3 times a week I haven't ever felt that.

 

It's simply not your world anymore, MMOs. It's mine now. You are a dead end; go die off somewhere in the "hardcore"  MMOs.

  danwest58

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 493

6/02/13 12:54:18 PM#45
Originally posted by Theocritus
f2p really has little or nothing to do with it...The biggest problem is there are simply too many MMOs out there to be supported.......Games are often f2p because it is the best way to lure in players.....Games that charge 50 bucks for the box, then a sub, then a cash shop are just cutting their own throats....I havent played a MMO in years that was worth dropping that kind of money on....TOday it is simply too easy to just go find a new game because there are so many.

I am glad other people are seeing the root problem as well as I been for about 2 years now.  Too many MMOs on the market is only going to do 1 thing that is crash the market.  Markets are about a balance between supply and demand.  Too much supply and not enough demand and the market crashes or shrinks.  Now we just need to wait until the market comes back down to normal and people will understand why not ever game should be F2P or P2P.  

  GregorMcgregor

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 174

6/02/13 12:54:36 PM#46

1/ Publishers are greedy, they all want all of the MMO pie!

2/ FTP players are only after a free ride, they do not care about the game or the genre.

3/ Subs keep trolls away as they do not like paying to be under the MMO bridge!

4/ Every new MMO has been one big rollercoaster of boredom, with empty promises and lies from the devs.

5/ The games market in general is nickle and diming as much as they can because us dumb fucks are buying their crap... Season passes, cash shops, DLC... We've not bought a FULL game in years! (*we - as in the non ftp sponges!).

6/ We're all doomed! I'm taking up invisible Golf, where I stand in my living room swinging my arms about! /honest!

No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!


...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!

  Jemcrystal

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1255

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

6/02/13 12:54:47 PM#47
Mabinogi is an excellent f2p model and it still has people playing from when the game first came out.  
  danwest58

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 493

6/02/13 12:59:24 PM#48
Originally posted by Grahor

>>Have you noticed how there are hundreds of MMO but they all die off in a matter of months.<<

Including P2P mmos. So it's not a problem of F2P, is it?

>>Have you noticed that people jump from MMO to MMO.<<

Yes, because I have no interest in "investing" my life into a game. I'm playing MMOs to have a bit of fun after work, if my family life allows me. Then (after a couple of months of casual playing) I've seen everything this MMO has to offer, I'm getting bored, I'm going to another one.

 

There is no power in the world that will make me log in to repeat "dailies" or to "raid" or another pointless boring idiotism. There is no "end game" for me because the game has ended; it's over; there is no, and never will be, nothing further of interest for me in this game.

>>Have you noticed how communities in MMO are dead, no one really gives a damn anymore.<<

Because I'm not looking for freaking friends in MMOs. I'm not interesting in developing relationships or "investing" in the "community". I have family and real-life friends, I barely have enough time to invest in relationships with THEM, MMO communities may go hang themselves.

 

>>Have you noticed how you seem to level to the cap in a matter of weeks.<<

No, I haven't. Having only time to play a couple of hours 2-3 times a week I haven't ever felt that.

 

It's simply not your world anymore, MMOs. It's mine now. You are a dead end; go die off somewhere in the "hardcore"  MMOs.

Not sure if your giving examples of what is happening or if you are explaining your personal feelings?

  Grahor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/11
Posts: 854

6/02/13 1:01:27 PM#49
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Grahor

>>Have you noticed how there are hundreds of MMO but they all die off in a matter of months.<<

Including P2P mmos. So it's not a problem of F2P, is it?

>>Have you noticed that people jump from MMO to MMO.<<

Yes, because I have no interest in "investing" my life into a game. I'm playing MMOs to have a bit of fun after work, if my family life allows me. Then (after a couple of months of casual playing) I've seen everything this MMO has to offer, I'm getting bored, I'm going to another one.

 

There is no power in the world that will make me log in to repeat "dailies" or to "raid" or another pointless boring idiotism. There is no "end game" for me because the game has ended; it's over; there is no, and never will be, nothing further of interest for me in this game.

>>Have you noticed how communities in MMO are dead, no one really gives a damn anymore.<<

Because I'm not looking for freaking friends in MMOs. I'm not interesting in developing relationships or "investing" in the "community". I have family and real-life friends, I barely have enough time to invest in relationships with THEM, MMO communities may go hang themselves.

 

>>Have you noticed how you seem to level to the cap in a matter of weeks.<<

No, I haven't. Having only time to play a couple of hours 2-3 times a week I haven't ever felt that.

 

It's simply not your world anymore, MMOs. It's mine now. You are a dead end; go die off somewhere in the "hardcore"  MMOs.

Not sure if your giving examples of what is happening or if you are explaining your personal feelings?

My personal feelings, which are, in my opinion, very good examples of what is happening.

  Consequence

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/04
Posts: 358

6/02/13 1:06:50 PM#50

MMOs are dieing for a variety of reason but most of them stem from 1 fact than many people on these forums seem to get offended by:

 

PCs are dieing.

 

Tablets cannibalized 3.5% of the PC market from 2011 to 2012. That figure went up to 7.5% from 2012 - 2013. So in 2 years PC sales have dropped 11%

 

People like to respond to this point by saying "Tons of people around the world still use PCs though!" While this is true it is looking at the problem from the wrong angle. Gamers always make the mistake of assuming that devs are the ones behind games and ignoring the other half of the equation....financing.

 

Devs need money to develop games and  very few financiers want to give money to a dev who works in a shrinking industry.  This is likely why we have seen Blizzard's "titan" shelved. It is also why we see so many new "jump start" projects popping up all over. Devs have been incapable of getting money elsewhere so they go to the consumer. It is also why we see so many half baked MMO releases in recent years. The money guys behind the devs are demanding they release before the market is cannibalized even more, which in turn leads to incomplete projects hitting the markets and angering gamers.

 

The problem is expected to get even worse going forward. Look at the new Xbox coming out. It has a processor capable of doing many of the things computers can do. Who knows if it will work out, but clearly Microsoft is trying to further cannibalize dying PC gaming market with a console they say is capable of PC like performance. I know PCs are always going to outpace consoles as far as top end gaming, but the fact is games are not made for top end machines, they are made for the masses.  Right now, the masses are leaving the PC behind.

  Shodanas

Elite Member

Joined: 1/05/10
Posts: 623

6/02/13 1:10:29 PM#51
Originally posted by Blackaddera
IMO the prob is that most new MMO's you see these days you burn through the content in days. Take Neverwinter for instance: I started playing an assassin 2 days ago, almost lvl 60 now. For the decent items you need to pay. I'm sorry but I'm not going to do that. On the other hand for a game like Wildstar I'll be willing to pay 70 Euro and a sub of 25 Euro a month.

Euros are not peanuts mate. No game deserves 25 euros per month.

Regarding the OP's concerns: only the bad mmo's die fast and their payment model is irrelevant with their fate.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4684

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

6/02/13 1:11:22 PM#52

While the pc market is a concern I don't think it's as big a concern as you make out.  The PC industry is still a multi multi billion dollar industry as is the MMO industry.

And MMO's are and will continue to be made for tablets and tablets are becoming more powerfull all the time.

I don't think the MMO industry will de, or even hiccup really, because of PC's.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  danwest58

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 493

6/02/13 1:24:40 PM#53
Originally posted by Grahor
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Grahor

>>Have you noticed how there are hundreds of MMO but they all die off in a matter of months.<<

Including P2P mmos. So it's not a problem of F2P, is it?

>>Have you noticed that people jump from MMO to MMO.<<

Yes, because I have no interest in "investing" my life into a game. I'm playing MMOs to have a bit of fun after work, if my family life allows me. Then (after a couple of months of casual playing) I've seen everything this MMO has to offer, I'm getting bored, I'm going to another one.

 

There is no power in the world that will make me log in to repeat "dailies" or to "raid" or another pointless boring idiotism. There is no "end game" for me because the game has ended; it's over; there is no, and never will be, nothing further of interest for me in this game.

>>Have you noticed how communities in MMO are dead, no one really gives a damn anymore.<<

Because I'm not looking for freaking friends in MMOs. I'm not interesting in developing relationships or "investing" in the "community". I have family and real-life friends, I barely have enough time to invest in relationships with THEM, MMO communities may go hang themselves.

 

>>Have you noticed how you seem to level to the cap in a matter of weeks.<<

No, I haven't. Having only time to play a couple of hours 2-3 times a week I haven't ever felt that.

 

It's simply not your world anymore, MMOs. It's mine now. You are a dead end; go die off somewhere in the "hardcore"  MMOs.

Not sure if your giving examples of what is happening or if you are explaining your personal feelings?

My personal feelings, which are, in my opinion, very good examples of what is happening.

 

Well I am going to say this.  I am partly in the same boat you are with having a family, I work full time and I also working on a BS degree in CIS.  After that I plan to go for an MBA.

You are right when you say that there are a lot of players not willing to invest their life into a game.  Many gamers do only get a few hours a week to be able to play.  That is the current market however there is a difference between what the Market is right now and what the market should be to maintain a health MMO genera.  Right now the genera is not health at all, and we will see publishers closing in the next few years.  They are just investing too much money for little or no profit period, and thats due to too many MMOs out there.  They are trying to make an MMO good enough to single/mutiplayer types because they need that business to try to make a profit.  Honestly this is the core issue right now with MMOs period.  Trying to cater to a Lobby based market that does not embody what MMOS have been or should be.  

You are also right that the MMO player base right now wants nothing to do with community.  That also goes back to the root problem of too many games and needing to bring in NON MMO type players into the genera.  Lets face it before we had a saturated MMO Market community was the Key to a successful MMO.  Friends brought their friends into a game and the chain reaction kept going.  Thats how MMOs built their player base.  Today they need to advertise to everyone and their brother to get players because the publisher invested 50 to 250 Million dollars into their game and they need to turn a profit.

So what do we have?  A market that does not give one thought to what a TRUE MMO is.  They are just playing throw away games in their minds and thats what the market has boiled down to.  Its the truth.  However the genera cannot and will not last going in this direction.  I am sorry to say but if you are not playing a game you will invest some time and effort into (I am not talking hardcore 4 nights a week raiding) and invest into making friends.  This is not the genera for you.  This is WHY the genera is on a downward spiral.  Because MMOs are designed around community and investing time that you feel attached to the game.  Much like a Bowling team, or Poker night with the buddies on Saturday nights.  If you dont care about what the genera means single player games or Multiplayer games like Neverwinter Nights 2 are for you.  Not MMOs.  

Now with that said how do I not feel the same as you with all I have going on in my life.  Because my social time is with my friends that I been playing MMOs with for 5+ years.  We know everything about each other, we become good friends and even though our lives are limiting our play time what we are doing come FFXIV is setting 2 days 3 at most aside for POKER GAME NIGHT.  We get on, have an idea what to do for the night and go do it.  From 830 to 11pm is our time to play and have fun shoot the shit and call it a night.  The rest of the week is 100% for RL.  How do we do it?   Simple we manage our lives so that we have that time.  Why? Simple if you do not have ME time guess what?  You go nuts and your relationships hurt because of it. Give my finacee ME time when she wants.  Her ME time is her reading her books.  I make sure she gets that. She makes sure I get ME time to play a game with my friends.  

To think the MMO world can sustain the current path is just folly too many games is just ruining the genera.  Trying to get every tom dick and harry is not what the genera needs.  It needs MMO players to be MMO players moving forward 

  Gurpslord

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/22/09
Posts: 372

You can't be a hero hiding underneath your bed.

6/02/13 1:24:47 PM#54
Originally posted by Murugan
Originally posted by Grahor
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Grahor

>>Have you noticed how there are hundreds of MMO but they all die off in a matter of months.<<

Including P2P mmos. So it's not a problem of F2P, is it?

>>Have you noticed that people jump from MMO to MMO.<<

Yes, because I have no interest in "investing" my life into a game. I'm playing MMOs to have a bit of fun after work, if my family life allows me. Then (after a couple of months of casual playing) I've seen everything this MMO has to offer, I'm getting bored, I'm going to another one.

 

There is no power in the world that will make me log in to repeat "dailies" or to "raid" or another pointless boring idiotism. There is no "end game" for me because the game has ended; it's over; there is no, and never will be, nothing further of interest for me in this game.

>>Have you noticed how communities in MMO are dead, no one really gives a damn anymore.<<

Because I'm not looking for freaking friends in MMOs. I'm not interesting in developing relationships or "investing" in the "community". I have family and real-life friends, I barely have enough time to invest in relationships with THEM, MMO communities may go hang themselves.

 

>>Have you noticed how you seem to level to the cap in a matter of weeks.<<

No, I haven't. Having only time to play a couple of hours 2-3 times a week I haven't ever felt that.

 

It's simply not your world anymore, MMOs. It's mine now. You are a dead end; go die off somewhere in the "hardcore"  MMOs.

Not sure if your giving examples of what is happening or if you are explaining your personal feelings?

My personal feelings, which are, in my opinion, very good examples of what is happening.

[mod edit]

[mod edit]  Life just isn't the same as it was for us back then.  The people who supported that "hardcore" mode are grown up now, have kids, families and careers.  The games coming out now cater to them because there's more of us than the remnant hardcore group, there's simply more money in catering to us than them.

Would I love to find an MMO that could keep my attention 100% of the time (when I can Play) sure, of course I would, but that kind of game just won't exist.  By the very design of those kinds of games, I believe that only putting in a bit of time here and there prevents us from feeling like we're "accomplishing" anything, so we stop playing.  Meanwhile games now offer us ways to feel like we're doing something in an hour or so, but of course that comes with the downside that we're going to chew thru the content in a few months of casual play (Or weeks of hardcore if you're that guy).

MMOs are less than what they were simply because of the people playing them.  I'm not saying there isn't hardcore players, I'm just saying that your market share is much smaller than the casual one and companies are out to make money, not go all chairty so a small group can have a game for a while.

Games are going to come and go now for as long as the genre lasts, and it will last for a long long time yet.  The trick now is that as gamers we demand more for less and we expect to get it because we can just abandon one game and go to another in literally the blink of a download.  Companies have to walk a fine line to give gamers something they'll enjoy.

As far as community goes, when I play a game I look to find people to play it with, fun folks who share a common sense of humor and set of goals.  However when I leave the game do I feel like I've lost family or something?  No, I never want to know anyones real names or dig into personal details.  We're friends, but not the kind who are going to hang out on sundays and grill steaks.

Anyhow, gaming is what it is.  Take it for what you can and if you can't enjoy it then don't play it.  Easy as that, all these folks whining and moaning about how things weren't how they were 10 years ago need to realize that's the case with everything and it's still changing.  You sound like my grandmother when you say stuff like this.

 

As an aside, I know 2 "hardcore" gamers that I consider friends.  They are both jobless, have no significant other and live with their parents and they're almost 40 years old.  Some will say that's a stereotype but frankly I don't know a whole lot of people who pull their 40 hours, married with kids and commitments thing who can call themselves hardcore.  Frankly saying you're hardcore is like saying you've given up on the rest of life...that's obviously my opinion tho.

  Consequence

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/04
Posts: 358

6/02/13 1:29:42 PM#55
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

While the pc market is a concern I don't think it's as big a concern as you make out.  The PC industry is still a multi multi billion dollar industry as is the MMO industry.

And MMO's are and will continue to be made for tablets and tablets are becoming more powerfull all the time.

I don't think the MMO industry will de, or even hiccup really, because of PC's.

Well, at this point we are talking about MMOs as a PC dominated market. Perhaps in the future MMos can be played on something else but for not this is what we have.

 

I think you are missing my point though. While PC right now are the main engine of MMOs, and the PC market is very big still, it is shrinking very rapidly.

 

As I said, the guys who finance games do not like to give money to projects tied to a shrinking customer base. Especially when you look at the rate at which it is shrinking. It is expected that in 2017 tablet sales will surpass PC completely.

 

Furthermore, many analysts have claimed the PC sales drop has been hit hardest by home PC users. Offices still use old boxes being notoriously cheap and slow with upgrades when compared to home users. In 2014, Microsoft is stopping all support for windows XP, which is still largely used by businesses around the world. Many predict that rather than upgrade to a new version of windows at a large cost, many businesses will move on completely from the PC.

 

I fully expect MMOs to survive, and eventually I am sure they will thrive. But, it wont happen until MMOs and PCs are separated from each other. New consoles may be the answer. Ones that  can process the information needed to have massive players.  They are more console/pc hybrids. Or, it could be tablets, but that would mean we are a way off because current tablets are nowhere near capable.

 

Either way, PC mmos are dieing and people can guess all they want about why but the numbers and indicators clearly show that the reason is more obvious than people want to admit. The engine that people use to play MMOs is dieing.

 

 

 

 

  Manestream

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/03
Posts: 561

6/02/13 1:30:59 PM#56

Have you noticed how there are hundreds of MMO but they all die off in a matter of months.

They die off because levelling is way way too fast at hitting cap. They need to give themselves some leeway and time to come up with some decent cap level content (not rushed after several months of waiting).

Have you noticed that people jump from MMO to MMO.

Boredom (because they hit cap level in a week) and have done end content a fair few times they have lost interest.

Have you noticed how communities in MMO are dead, no one really gives a damn anymore.

yeah, I have

Have you noticed how you seem to level to the cap in a matter of weeks.

most definatly

 

 

 

  danwest58

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 493

6/02/13 1:31:28 PM#57
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

While the pc market is a concern I don't think it's as big a concern as you make out.  The PC industry is still a multi multi billion dollar industry as is the MMO industry.

And MMO's are and will continue to be made for tablets and tablets are becoming more powerfull all the time.

I don't think the MMO industry will de, or even hiccup really, because of PC's.

Wrong.  How long do you think that publishers will last dropping $100 Million into a game to only get 20 to 30 Million in revenue a year before operating cost?  Then going F2P to hope to make up the money in an investment?  It cannot happen because if the publisher is not making money why keep their doors open?  They will not.  

Will it work in Tablets?  Different world and I can tell you from playing Little Empires as well as other games they are not expensive to develop and there will always be people impulse buying on them games.   however for the majority like me I will not spend a cent on a tablet game.  So the 30 people that are spending hundreds a month on the game will pay off a game that took 2 or 3 Million to make.  You will not see $100 Million tablet games any time soon.  

  Gurpslord

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/22/09
Posts: 372

You can't be a hero hiding underneath your bed.

6/02/13 1:34:18 PM#58
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

While the pc market is a concern I don't think it's as big a concern as you make out.  The PC industry is still a multi multi billion dollar industry as is the MMO industry.

And MMO's are and will continue to be made for tablets and tablets are becoming more powerfull all the time.

I don't think the MMO industry will de, or even hiccup really, because of PC's.

Wrong.  How long do you think that publishers will last dropping $100 Million into a game to only get 20 to 30 Million in revenue a year before operating cost?  Then going F2P to hope to make up the money in an investment?  It cannot happen because if the publisher is not making money why keep their doors open?  They will not.  

Will it work in Tablets?  Different world and I can tell you from playing Little Empires as well as other games they are not expensive to develop and there will always be people impulse buying on them games.   however for the majority like me I will not spend a cent on a tablet game.  So the 30 people that are spending hundreds a month on the game will pay off a game that took 2 or 3 Million to make.  You will not see $100 Million tablet games any time soon.  

Show me the studies that say you're the majority.

 

That's what I thought.  

*Edited cuz I was being a douche*.

  Blackaddera

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 70

6/02/13 1:34:20 PM#59
Originally posted by Shodanas
Originally posted by Blackaddera
IMO the prob is that most new MMO's you see these days you burn through the content in days. Take Neverwinter for instance: I started playing an assassin 2 days ago, almost lvl 60 now. For the decent items you need to pay. I'm sorry but I'm not going to do that. On the other hand for a game like Wildstar I'll be willing to pay 70 Euro and a sub of 25 Euro a month.

Euros are not peanuts mate. No game deserves 25 euros per month.

Regarding the OP's concerns: only the bad mmo's die fast and their payment model is irrelevant with their fate.

I know 25 euro ain't peanuts, I'm from Belgium but still for a great game i'd be willing to pay that much.

the steel shines red with enemy blood. It sings of victory, granted by the gods. And as they return bleeding but proud, the horizon burns and the song is ringing LOUD!

  Mothanos

Elite Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1762

6/02/13 1:36:22 PM#60

Keep in mind that Pre WoW 500k subs whas an absolute dream number for mmo studio's.
Post WoW a mmo fails if it doesnt even reach 2 million.

What changed ?

Greed - Community - Investors - Shareholders


WoW when breaking 500k subs had a wicked awesome community just like UO / EQ.
Dev's loved to interact with players and hearing feedback.

Then Blizzard changed and the whole industry changed with it.
Activision and suits went for a cash cow milking product.

fast forward 2013:

More revenue is made with BtP / FtP, afterall 200k subs is stressfull for players are it will create many empty servers.
FtP also fills up those servers with a constand inflow of new players.

While with subs you reach a peak and it diminsish from there with lower and lower sub numbers each year.

One thing is sure ftp aint the devil its the greed from cash shop creators that can make a mmo look bad and pushing the industry into the wrong direction.
BtP mmo's like GW2 show that a studio can also create a rock solid mmo and make good profits.
Even with a cash shop added !

And dont forget in the old days you dint raly have a choice, you where an mmo player, the most niche market in gaming.
MMO's where created by nerds for nerds, profit wasnt up there, but the love for community where nerds could gather and be nerds.

So i think the OP is right and wrong in his post.
But its much more complicated then it used to be :)

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