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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » MMORPGs Are Dead -- How to Resurrect the Genre

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146 posts found
  Slampig

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2389

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

6/02/13 1:44:58 AM#21
Originally posted by ColumbiaTrue

The quest. The journey. The world. The community. The essential ingredients combined to create an enriching, complex, and satisfying---indeed memorable---MMORPG experience. Today's games fall sort of creating lasting, lifelong memories. Instead, they are designed to provide temporary, fleeting contentment. 

 

An MMORPG should not just be about the game itself. An MMORPG is more than gaming. It is about building genuine, authentic relationships in an environment conducive to building bonds of friendship. 

 

An MMORPG world has to feel rich, diverse, and dynamic. Most MMORPG worlds are so static and stale that I cannot bear to play them --- even for free.

 

The journey. An individual, unique, and customized character. Different from but similar to others. A part of the world and a part of a community. However, the opportunity to define one's own destiny, choose a path (create a path).

 

 

You could have just put this in the, "I WANT A SANDBOX! WAAH" thread. But I do thank you for your opinion.

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  User Deleted
6/02/13 1:45:54 AM#22
Originally posted by Gdemami


You don't resurrect something that isn't dead.


If something could be considered dead here, it is you and alike player type. Then again, your burnout isn't anyone else issue but yours. Find a new hobby.

Would you like to supersize those fries?

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15581

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

6/02/13 2:01:50 AM#23
Originally posted by PWN_FACE
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Elikal
I'd say they are indeed dead - for us who are demanding, old fashioned gamers. They changed into cheap watered down fast food.

You realize they actually put a lot more money into these games now right?

This is the problem, most who want something else rarely express themselves properly. It's all laced with this overall tone. Just look at the posts that followed this one. It all goes down hill from here, you don't get anywhere by simply attacking current games, those who play them, or their mentality. There's no message taken from this to the eye that matters. It just looks like petty dung flinging.

Yes lets just continue to create white-noise. We'll get there someday, not by our own doing of course that would take actual thought and tact.

You are aware Distopia that "cheap" doesn't only refer to money. It can also mean:

of little account; of small value; meanshoddy: cheap conduct;cheap workmanship

I believe the above definition is what Elikal had in mind.

Money equals better game-play in most comparisons. Past games focused on allowing communities to make their game (what {insert} eventually became). Modern AAA titles essentially are all about upping the quality of game-play at the expense of freedoms and "community depth". Depth comes from developed systems, rather than open-ended options given to players. 

A good example of this is a comparison between SWG and SWTOR. Both were buggy, not so well received Star Wars games, that had numerous issues but devoted fans.

SWG's depth was in it's skill system, community system and it's profession paths. All of it was layered in a way to make a community dependent on one another for everything to work. This is the old many of us want back.

TOR"S depth lied in it's production values, which I have to say were all but destroyed by their engine choice. Graphics had to be toned down,original planned combat system had to be scraped etc..Still it had high production values, voice acting, tight combat (when it works)<- IE ability delays.

Community depth was completely ignored, just like many other titles since 04. WOW made people want good game-play. I think people are now realizing that was the wrong choice, and it's a little late. I wanted that community depth, after SWG's community all but died (04), haven't found it since, and really don't plan to. As I doubt we'll see it again.

Anyway, point is community is rather low costs in terms of feature planning, you just need layers upon layers of it. That's what brings overall game-play quality down. When players begin to accept large amounts of bugs (as TES fans do), not so great animations, not so cutting edge GFX, etc... We'll see MMO's heading in that direction again. While players want shiny GFX, great combat, etc, etc. we'll continue to see most MMO's focusing on those things.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4651

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

6/02/13 2:03:31 AM#24
Originally posted by simsalabim77
The genre hasn't died and it's not dying. The jaded, burned out vets are the vocal (very vocal) minority. Way more people are enjoying MMO's right now than there are people who constantly lament the death of the genre on forums. 

is this your opinion or a fact ?

 

 

  TheHavok

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2426

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

6/02/13 2:04:16 AM#25
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by simsalabim77
The genre hasn't died and it's not dying. The jaded, burned out vets are the vocal (very vocal) minority. Way more people are enjoying MMO's right now than there are people who constantly lament the death of the genre on forums. 

is this your opinion or a fact ?

 

 

Its fact.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4651

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

6/02/13 2:06:15 AM#26
can we see some evidence of this fact ?

  simsalabim77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 617

6/02/13 2:07:40 AM#27
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by simsalabim77
The genre hasn't died and it's not dying. The jaded, burned out vets are the vocal (very vocal) minority. Way more people are enjoying MMO's right now than there are people who constantly lament the death of the genre on forums. 

is this your opinion or a fact ?

 

It's a fact. What percentage of all MMO players do you think constantly whine on various forums about how the genre is dying?Contrast that with the amount of players who happily go about their playtime without a care in the world as to what is happening to the genre.

  Rollermint

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/03/13
Posts: 12

6/02/13 2:09:12 AM#28

Ahhh its always that  bunch of jaded MMO gamers that spent way too much portion of their free time playing MMOs (multiple years, generally) but couldn't understand why they don't derive the same enjoyment anymore. I hate to repeat what you already heard so many times but just couldn't accept. Its called burnt out.

And since they don't have fun anymore, how dare anyone else actually still have fun with the genre and declare otherwise.

Take a break guys, seriously. The problem isn't with the games, its you. In fact, some of you may actually need to consider moving on with your lives and find new hobbies.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4651

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

6/02/13 2:16:31 AM#29
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by simsalabim77
The genre hasn't died and it's not dying. The jaded, burned out vets are the vocal (very vocal) minority. Way more people are enjoying MMO's right now than there are people who constantly lament the death of the genre on forums. 

is this your opinion or a fact ?

 

It's a fact. What percentage of all MMO players do you think constantly whine on various forums about how the genre is dying?Contrast that with the amount of players who happily go about their playtime without a care in the world as to what is happening to the genre.

so it's a hypothesis.

 

I often see posts made in the name of the 'silent majority' and they're always hostile towards the forumgoers.

 

and every time I ask myself...how does this poster know what the silent majority wants when nobody else - not even developers - do not ? And then I start thinking...he's on the forums. the silent majority is not. Is he really one of them ? or is he one of us ? what if BECAUSE he's not one of us he pretends he's one of them ? what if he's a PHONY!!

 

So tell us, for my and others curiosity, how do you have an inside information on the silent majority and nobody else does ? What makes you that special ? Who are you ? Are you The One ?

 

 

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15581

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

6/02/13 2:20:45 AM#30
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by simsalabim77
The genre hasn't died and it's not dying. The jaded, burned out vets are the vocal (very vocal) minority. Way more people are enjoying MMO's right now than there are people who constantly lament the death of the genre on forums. 

is this your opinion or a fact ?

 

It's a fact. What percentage of all MMO players do you think constantly whine on various forums about how the genre is dying?Contrast that with the amount of players who happily go about their playtime without a care in the world as to what is happening to the genre.

so it's a hypothesis.

 

I often see posts made in the name of the 'silent majority' and they're always hostile towards the forumgoers.

 

and every time I ask myself...how does this poster know what the silent majority wants when nobody else - not even developers - do not ? And then I start thinking...he's on the forums. the silent majority is not. Is he really one of them ? or is he one of us ? what if BECAUSE he's not one of us he pretends he's one of them ? what if he's a PHONY!!

 

So tell us, for my and others curiosity, how do you have an inside information on the silent majority and nobody else does ? What makes you that special ? Who are you ? Are you The One ?

 

 

What they're doing is spending money, that's the only thing that matters. It's obvious what they're spending it on BTW, there are plenty of threads around here on the subject, people love showing their graphs.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  aleos

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/07
Posts: 1895

Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.

6/02/13 2:43:32 AM#31

yeah well.

with all the money made today on terrible games, imagine if they made a good one.

 

  itchmon

Elite Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1546

6/02/13 2:56:21 AM#32

companies overcompensate frequently.  upon the success of WoW game companies put aside innovation to try to piggy-back on the unprecedented success of WoW.  keep in mind wow was a success on such a monumental level when it burst onto the scene that it likely literally knocked businessmen off their chairs.

 

now the pendulum is swinging back, as we see that on the horizon are very different games such as star citizen, repop, EQN being reworked to be more sandboxy, CU, archeage, as well as games which depart from the typical combat model, such as tera, dragon's prophet and ofc darkfall.

so in other words your ressurection is already on its way, have faith.

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

Dwight D Eisenhower

My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

Henry Rollins

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3563

6/02/13 3:05:05 AM#33
Originally posted by Robokapp
 

/snip

So tell us, for my and others curiosity, how do you have an inside information on the silent majority and nobody else does ? What makes you that special ? Who are you ? Are you The One ?

 

 

I believe the word is something called 'free market' and how there are more MMO players than ever before.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Aodhan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/08/11
Posts: 35

6/02/13 3:14:09 AM#34
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by simsalabim77
The genre hasn't died and it's not dying. The jaded, burned out vets are the vocal (very vocal) minority. Way more people are enjoying MMO's right now than there are people who constantly lament the death of the genre on forums. 

is this your opinion or a fact ?

 

It's a fact. What percentage of all MMO players do you think constantly whine on various forums about how the genre is dying?Contrast that with the amount of players who happily go about their playtime without a care in the world as to what is happening to the genre.

so it's a hypothesis.

 

I often see posts made in the name of the 'silent majority' and they're always hostile towards the forumgoers.

 

and every time I ask myself...how does this poster know what the silent majority wants when nobody else - not even developers - do not ? And then I start thinking...he's on the forums. the silent majority is not. Is he really one of them ? or is he one of us ? what if BECAUSE he's not one of us he pretends he's one of them ? what if he's a PHONY!!

 

So tell us, for my and others curiosity, how do you have an inside information on the silent majority and nobody else does ? What makes you that special ? Who are you ? Are you The One ?

 

 

OMG love that responce :).

  yangdude

Novice Member

Joined: 5/15/12
Posts: 65

6/02/13 3:17:20 AM#35

I believe that people are pretty flexible.  I might not be a huge fan of FPS for example, but I still enjoy a good one.  I don't think an MMO needs to try and cater to everyone but, whatever it does, it needs to do it well. 

Take Neverwinter for example.  I was expecting a lot more.  I think I finished it today - its instanced, linear and total inflexible, very few quests in each instance(zone). Lots of people are already saying at level 60 (the cap) that there's nothing to do - and it only takes a couple weeks to get there.  Compared to the years of gameplay I got out of Perfect World, Neverwinter really boggles the mind - like, they spend who knows how much time and money coming up with a game that lasts a month??? Have a look at the crafting system in Neverwinter - like really, just delete the code from the game and no one would know it was ever there - its totally pointless.

Compare again to that (kiddies?) game - Minecraft.  The gameplay is literally endless - for what its trying to be - it might be an almost perfect example. 

If companies think they will get away with a game like Neverwinter and clever marketing, I think they will be very surprised at how wrong they are and how quickly they fail. 

If games are going to be successful I believe its a two part equation - 1/ -  the journey to end-game must be challenging and immersive make you feel the time and effort you put in, is something you don't want to lost by just quitting; and 2/ -the end game must be something to keep people active and continually developing irrespective the epicness of your gears.    How they do this is up to better minds than mine .... but I think of housing/crafting/land ownership as an end-game subject which is underdeveloped. 

EDIT - looking at my two equations above - Perfect World - great journey, end-game is b2w.  Nothing can be obtained by effort/crating that cant be obtained with a credit card; Neverwinter - journey was fast and totally unimersive.  Some awesome graphics/layouts/environments but that's it; end-game - there doesn't appear to be one.  Minecraft - no journey at all; end-game is the same as the start and you can totally change your world environment. 

Surely with all the things people love about mmo's and with all the things people loath, someone can develop a great game...

 

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4755

6/02/13 3:18:16 AM#36
Originally posted by ColumbiaTrue

The quest. The journey. The world. The community. The essential ingredients combined to create an enriching, complex, and satisfying---indeed memorable---MMORPG experience. Today's games fall sort of creating lasting, lifelong memories. Instead, they are designed to provide temporary, fleeting contentment. 

An MMORPG should not just be about the game itself. An MMORPG is more than gaming. It is about building genuine, authentic relationships in an environment conducive to building bonds of friendship. 

An MMORPG world has to feel rich, diverse, and dynamic. Most MMORPG worlds are so static and stale that I cannot bear to play them --- even for free.

The journey. An individual, unique, and customized character. Different from but similar to others. A part of the world and a part of a community. However, the opportunity to define one's own destiny, choose a path (create a path).

Some MMOs are doing some of the things you're asking for.

The main issue is you (and others as well) are expecting the game to do all the work for you. You talk about things like the journey, lasting memories & experiences, community, etc. These are things that a game can't just hand you. The most a game can ever do (and has ever done) is to provide a stage, and environment for which such things are possible. It's up to the players to create such things for themselves.

And that lies the root of the problem. While some games are definitely too shallow to allow for such things. Others aren't. However that doesn't deter players from complaining about these things not existing. Things like having a fun community need to be built by the players. You see this a lot in GW2. Some servers, the players just bitch about there being no community, others.. they make their own and it's amazing.

MMOs of the past seemed to do this for the players, because there weren't any options. You had only a few MMOs that everyone was playing. It was also still new, so people still felt like they were exploring a new game, even when they were all essentially the same. It's was a new phenomina. Now, we're starting to see the cracks, the downsides to an MMO, the limits to such games. The honeymoon phase has long since ended, and we're forced to deal w/ the reality of what an MMO is, and more importantly, what it isn't.

  keenber

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/10/07
Posts: 438

6/02/13 3:24:18 AM#37

I do belive MMORPG is dead but making much more cash as what i would call a single player instanced online RPG .

There has been so much money about in the last 10 years that every greedy developer has had his hand out for the fast buck but i do belive that with the economy the way it is going that will soon dry up and companys will find they need to create a better more player friendly community environment .

Developers will soon find that it is much cheaper to create a long lasting game that pay a monthly fee than spend $100s of millions and years creating a one month game with a cash shop in the hope of that quick buck.

I had hope for a lot of the new games coming out like AA,ESO and repop but as they all gonna be F2P i have lost all interest in them and all the rest of the junk that is coming out the only one that may but i am beging to have my doubts is EQN with its hybrid sub/F2P plan. I hope i am wrong and these games will be great but i been burnt too much in the past 10 years.

Don't know why developers cant create a sub server and F2P servers and merge them later if needed.

  simsalabim77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 617

6/02/13 3:41:27 AM#38
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by simsalabim77
The genre hasn't died and it's not dying. The jaded, burned out vets are the vocal (very vocal) minority. Way more people are enjoying MMO's right now than there are people who constantly lament the death of the genre on forums. 

is this your opinion or a fact ?

 

It's a fact. What percentage of all MMO players do you think constantly whine on various forums about how the genre is dying?Contrast that with the amount of players who happily go about their playtime without a care in the world as to what is happening to the genre.

so it's a hypothesis.

 

I often see posts made in the name of the 'silent majority' and they're always hostile towards the forumgoers.

 

and every time I ask myself...how does this poster know what the silent majority wants when nobody else - not even developers - do not ? And then I start thinking...he's on the forums. the silent majority is not. Is he really one of them ? or is he one of us ? what if BECAUSE he's not one of us he pretends he's one of them ? what if he's a PHONY!!

 

So tell us, for my and others curiosity, how do you have an inside information on the silent majority and nobody else does ? What makes you that special ? Who are you ? Are you The One ?

 

 

 

Whiners on forums are and always will be the vocal minority. The genre continues to grow every year in terms of profit and playerbase. Do you really think there's millions of people that collectively pay billions of dollars who, in reality, think the genre sucks and is dying? No. The minority spouts the same rhetoric year after year, and year after year the genre continues to expand. 

As of 2012, there were an estimated 400 million players globally. The industry was worth 13 billion dollars. The genre is healthy. This website is filled with old timers who love to have their circle jerks about how terrible the genre is and how it's dying a slow death, but the opposite is true. 

I don't know what the majority wants, but it seems to me that they're spending a metric shitton of money, so presumably they enjoy and want more of whatever it is they're spending money on. 

I'll show myself out and let you guys continue to tell everyone about the sky that has been falling since 2004. 

  Adokas

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/12
Posts: 221

6/02/13 3:48:16 AM#39

The genre is hardly dead. It seems alive and well. If that's a good thing, in it's current state, well that's subjective as hell, as everyone has their own take on that.

I don't care if it's a new type of themepark, a new sandbox or a hybrid, whatever really. Just release a high quality game with depth and longevity for once, and I'm sure it could truck on happily as a P2P game.

I'm sick of games that are essentially World of Warcraft in a different skin.

  TheHavok

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2426

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

6/02/13 3:50:27 AM#40
Originally posted by Robokapp
can we see some evidence of this fact ?

http://www.superdataresearch.com/global-mmo-games-spending-exceeds-12bn/

Of course this is data from over a year ago but I think its correct on a lot of points including:

-The number of people playing MMOs is increasing.

-The percentage of people that play MMOs who spend is increasing.

-Estimated 12 billion dollars spent in MMOs in 2012.

-Forecast 17.5 billion dollars spent in MMOs in 2015.

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