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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » MMORPGs Are Dead -- How to Resurrect the Genre

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146 posts found
  ColumbiaTrue

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 48

 
OP  6/01/13 11:54:16 PM#1

The quest. The journey. The world. The community. The essential ingredients combined to create an enriching, complex, and satisfying---indeed memorable---MMORPG experience. Today's games fall sort of creating lasting, lifelong memories. Instead, they are designed to provide temporary, fleeting contentment. 

 

An MMORPG should not just be about the game itself. An MMORPG is more than gaming. It is about building genuine, authentic relationships in an environment conducive to building bonds of friendship. 

 

An MMORPG world has to feel rich, diverse, and dynamic. Most MMORPG worlds are so static and stale that I cannot bear to play them --- even for free.

 

The journey. An individual, unique, and customized character. Different from but similar to others. A part of the world and a part of a community. However, the opportunity to define one's own destiny, choose a path (create a path).

 

 

"The truth is EA lies." - Youtube User

Sim City. Everquest. Civilization. Dungeon Keeper. Vampire: The Masquerade. These are the games that I love and cherish.

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 5101

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

6/02/13 12:03:18 AM#2

so I'll focus on what you left out from the title..."how to rez the genre".

 

1) target audience must be identified. casual-oriented, little-bit-for-everyone is not an acceptable answer.

 

2) character / player purpose must be identified. 'explore/quest/slay/pvp' only goes until you've done the quests, explored the map, done the pvp an slain the monsters. Long-term goals must exist. A meta-game.

 

3) Commitment and stability. lifetime subs today, cash shops, f2p in 6 months, every new update in the shop, rebalancing the shop every patch is not 'it'.

 

4) strongly incentisize community development by many activities that require REPEATED group interaction.

  duuude007

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/13
Posts: 114

6/02/13 12:12:48 AM#3
Originally posted by Robokapp

so I'll focus on what you left out from the title..."how to rez the genre".

 

1) target audience must be identified. casual-oriented, little-bit-for-everyone is not an acceptable answer.

  Be..cause?

Let me reword that- Why not a lot for everyone?

 

2) character / player purpose must be identified. 'explore/quest/slay/pvp' only goes until you've done the quests, explored the map, done the pvp an slain the monsters. Long-term goals must exist. A meta-game.

Some MMORPG games have robust achievement systems which reward you for completing long- term challenges with titles and unique equipment. This along with increasingly difficult dungeons and many, many options (casual and hardcore) are actually good to have.

 

3) Commitment and stability. lifetime subs today, cash shops, f2p in 6 months, every new update in the shop, rebalancing the shop every patch is not 'it'.

P2P = "money where your mouth is" commitment. F2P = "I can leave whenever I want". Get real.

 

4) strongly incentisize community development by many activities that require REPEATED group interaction.
I think you meant "incentivize". Also, there are games that do this, but most of them successfully are, like I said before, P2P.
  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 5101

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

6/02/13 12:19:03 AM#4

1) Because not everyone has the same capabilities nor interests. Making a lot for everyone will still mean anyone gets only a small percent of the total, feeling that most of the game is not for him.

 

 

2) I agree. Some do. I'm a little hesitant to call 'achievements' by themselves sufficient but vanity things that can be displayed such as unique mounts do qualify. Yet is vanity enough for long-term sustainability ?

 

3) I don't know any MMO developer who wants you to leave when you want. I think they all want you to leave when THEY want. Am I real enough ? Or am I too real ?

 

 

  Aodhan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/11
Posts: 45

6/02/13 12:23:33 AM#5
Originally posted by ColumbiaTrue

The quest. The journey. The world. The community. The essential ingredients combined to create an enriching, complex, and satisfying---indeed memorable---MMORPG experience. Today's games fall sort of creating lasting, lifelong memories. Instead, they are designed to provide temporary, fleeting contentment. 

 

An MMORPG should not just be about the game itself. An MMORPG is more than gaming. It is about building genuine, authentic relationships in an environment conducive to building bonds of friendship. 

 

An MMORPG world has to feel rich, diverse, and dynamic. Most MMORPG worlds are so static and stale that I cannot bear to play them --- even for free.

 

The journey. An individual, unique, and customized character. Different from but similar to others. A part of the world and a part of a community. However, the opportunity to define one's own destiny, choose a path (create a path).

 

 

Well said, agree with you on all points, who no's maybe one day there will be a gem amongst all this garbage.

  Renoaku

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/07
Posts: 983

6/02/13 12:29:48 AM#6

The reason MMORPG's are dead is because of all the ignorant developers in general I have played like every MMORPG Out there of what is classified as such and the experience is dead in my eyes.

True MMORPG's was back when Infantry Online, and T4C were around 200 players on small maps massively playing the game with PVP Combat, Games like EVE, DarkFall, Guild Wars are examples of real MMORPG's.

All these Free 2 Play so called MMORPG's by Gamers First, Nexon, Perfect World are complete crap, StarTrek online, and APB Reloaded has great potential but over 7 players I have spoken to say the games suck because of the companies running them which IMO is true.

The only way to revive MMORPG's is to get Rid of all the ignorant developers, get rid of the Pay 2 Enjoy, and Pay 2 Win Scheme and make actual MMORPG's from passionate developers who want to offer more for the buck and great premium MMORPG service then focus on cash shop, for example Guild Wars 2 does this, except only thing I don't like about Guild Wars I wish they allowed unlimited make-over other than that you can get it FREE, other MMORPG you can't.

The only way to revive the Generate is making a new term like MMORPG, but changing it and Copy-Righting it so that no one can use that term for their games without lawsuit in U.S then release a new type of totally created Combat Game that actually allows great customization, and Game Play beyond click to target, or Tab Target similar to TERA, or Blade & Soul but give it a different type of Genre other than MMORPG.

Never Winter, another example of a disaster in the DDO series, I like Dragons & Dungeons, I enjoyed the movie too but I can't understand how PWI got rights to both Never Winter & StarTrek Online and ruin them.

  duuude007

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/13
Posts: 114

6/02/13 12:33:36 AM#7
Originally posted by Renoaku

The reason MMORPG's are dead is because of all the ignorant developers in general I have played like every MMORPG Out there of what is classified as such and the experience is dead in my eyes.

True MMORPG's was back when Infantry Online, and T4C were around 200 players on small maps massively playing the game with PVP Combat, Games like EVE, DarkFall, Guild Wars are examples of real MMORPG's.

All these Free 2 Play so called MMORPG's by Gamers First, Nexon, Perfect World are complete crap, StarTrek online, and APB Reloaded has great potential but over 7 players I have spoken to say the games suck because of the companies running them which IMO is true.

The only way to revive MMORPG's is to get Rid of all the ignorant developers, get rid of the Pay 2 Enjoy, and Pay 2 Win Scheme and make actual MMORPG's from passionate developers who want to offer more for the buck and great premium MMORPG service then focus on cash shop, for example Guild Wars 2 does this, except only thing I don't like about Guild Wars I wish they allowed unlimited make-over other than that you can get it FREE, other MMORPG you can't.

The only way to revive the Generate is making a new term like MMORPG, but changing it and Copy-Righting it so that no one can use that term for their games without lawsuit in U.S then release a new type of totally created Combat Game that actually allows great customization, and Game Play beyond click to target, or Tab Target similar to TERA, or Blade & Soul but give it a different type of Genre other than MMORPG.

Never Winter, another example of a disaster in the DDO series, I like Dragons & Dungeons, I enjoyed the movie too but I can't understand how PWI got rights to both Never Winter & StarTrek Online and ruin them.

In other words, make MMOs that actually deserve to be self-sustaining P2P.

  thecapitaine

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/06/11
Posts: 400

6/02/13 1:01:41 AM#8

How does one resurrect something that's not dead?  If you remove personal preference from the equation, there are virtually no indicators to say that the genre is dead, dying, or even is suffering from a head cold.  There are more games than ever, the production quality of F2P games has gone upwards rather than downwards compared to previous years, there are more publishers and devs creating games, and there are more gamers playing MMOs than ever before.  Real "dead" genres are dead easy to spot without bringing preferences to play.  How long was the adventure game drought before Telltale Games came on the scene?  How robustly were tactical turn-based shooters selling before the XCOM remake?   How many text-based games is Steam pushing out the door?

 

I don't mean to discount the OP's opinions on the direction the genre has taken; I understand and can even agree with some of them.  But there's a clear difference between feeling like a genre has passed you by and seeing that genre simply wither and die as has been suggested.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8120

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

6/02/13 1:05:01 AM#9
I'd say they are indeed dead - for us who are demanding, old fashioned gamers. They changed into cheap watered down fast food.

People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  Cephus404

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

6/02/13 1:10:09 AM#10
Originally posted by Elikal
I'd say they are indeed dead - for us who are demanding, old fashioned gamers. They changed into cheap watered down fast food.

You mean, they changed into games that could actually make money for the developers, which is what all companies are in business to do.  There just aren't enough "demanding, old fashioned gamers" out there to make money.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  duuude007

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/13
Posts: 114

6/02/13 1:12:15 AM#11
Originally posted by Elikal
I'd say they are indeed dead - for us who are demanding, old fashioned gamers. They changed into cheap watered down fast food.

Shovelware.

  Grailer

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 876

6/02/13 1:13:59 AM#12

Interesting and well put ,  after playing a few ftp mmos lately I can honestly say I have not actually met a single person in the game who I remember or even share a bond with .

 

It's like no one talks anymore because no one cares .

 

 

 

 

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 5101

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

6/02/13 1:16:19 AM#13
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by Elikal
I'd say they are indeed dead - for us who are demanding, old fashioned gamers. They changed into cheap watered down fast food.

You mean, they changed into games that could actually make money for the developers, which is what all companies are in business to do.

some companies arent in business anymore due to recent MMO trends.

 

 

  There just aren't enough "demanding, old fashioned gamers" out there to make money.

or alternatively, our tastes are too refined, it's cheaper to clease a more clueless gamer. As a roman saying goes "Praise idiots and they'll adore you".

 

 

  aleos

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/07
Posts: 1913

Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.

6/02/13 1:31:13 AM#14

for some reason i cant get the thought out of my head

 

"Just because there's bacteria on a corpse, doesn't mean the mans alive."

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16506

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

6/02/13 1:34:04 AM#15
Originally posted by Elikal
I'd say they are indeed dead - for us who are demanding, old fashioned gamers. They changed into cheap watered down fast food.

You realize they actually put a lot more money into these games now right?

This is the problem, most who want something else rarely express themselves properly. It's all laced with this overall tone. Just look at the posts that followed this one. It all goes down hill from here, you don't get anywhere by simply attacking current games, those who play them, or their mentality. There's no message taken from this to the eye that matters. It just looks like petty dung flinging.

Yes lets just continue to create white-noise. We'll get there someday, not by our own doing of course that would take actual thought and tact.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  PWN_FACE

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/28/11
Posts: 670

6/02/13 1:36:13 AM#16
Originally posted by Elikal
I'd say they are indeed dead - for us who are demanding, old fashioned gamers. They changed into cheap watered down fast food.

I think along the same lines.

 

This is because of huge production costs and trying to capture a huge mass market. This will change however, if mmorpgs are made much more inexpensively and thereby can be successful (financially) with a much smaller audience to whom that particular game appeals (call it niche if you like). There will be a renaissance of "boutique" mmorpgs, which will rejuvenate the industry after it collapses from the current walmartization it's going through now with huge budget games going "f2p" with ridiculous cash shop centered re-release designs.

 

I think when someone makes a Minecraft-type mmorpg or when some of these kickstarters finally launch, we will start to see the kinds of changes we want (as gamers who are hobbyists). The mass-market games will still be there for the mass market of course (the people who see success as quantity rather than quality, assuming there is a correlation). 

 

But you just can't make a truly amazing world that caters to everybody. What you gain in mass appeal, you must lose in depth, apparently. Focus is important. The same can be seen in literature  v pulp fiction and music v commercial entertainment. Why would gaming be different. I'm certainly willing to pay a premium sub for a great game that doesn't go all out on graphics, monetization schemes and advertising and instead focuses on gameplay and an immersive world.

 

TL;DR -- Lower production cost: focus on smaller market with gameplay and immersive world.

  PWN_FACE

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/28/11
Posts: 670

6/02/13 1:39:00 AM#17
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Elikal
I'd say they are indeed dead - for us who are demanding, old fashioned gamers. They changed into cheap watered down fast food.

You realize they actually put a lot more money into these games now right?

This is the problem, most who want something else rarely express themselves properly. It's all laced with this overall tone. Just look at the posts that followed this one. It all goes down hill from here, you don't get anywhere by simply attacking current games, those who play them, or their mentality. There's no message taken from this to the eye that matters. It just looks like petty dung flinging.

Yes lets just continue to create white-noise. We'll get there someday, not by our own doing of course that would take actual thought and tact.

You are aware Distopia that "cheap" doesn't only refer to money. It can also mean:

of little account; of small value; meanshoddy: cheap conduct;cheap workmanship

I believe the above definition is what Elikal had in mind.

  simsalabim77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 642

6/02/13 1:41:25 AM#18
The genre hasn't died and it's not dying. The jaded, burned out vets are the vocal (very vocal) minority. Way more people are enjoying MMO's right now than there are people who constantly lament the death of the genre on forums. 
  Dudehog

Novice Member

Joined: 1/01/12
Posts: 119

6/02/13 1:41:25 AM#19

MMOs aren't dead. We're just stuck in a lame transition phase from themepark to sandbox.

The WoW clone model has been proven a failure time and time again. The final nail in the coffin to that type of game was SWTOR. Now we just have to sit back and wait for the triple A next gen sandbox games to arrive and reignite interest. The bad news is it's probably gonna be at least a couple more years before that happens.

  Gdemami

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7913

6/02/13 1:42:21 AM#20


You don't resurrect something that isn't dead.


If something could be considered dead here, it is you and alike player type. Then again, your burnout isn't anyone else issue but yours. Find a new hobby.

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