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Lord of the Rings Online

Lord of the Rings Online 

General Discussion  » Will Turbine get the class revamp right?

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24 posts found
  xalvi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 343

 
OP  5/27/13 11:52:32 AM#1

Most of you all know me here as the guy bashing the game. But i bash it for a reason, mostly because it is the only middle earth mmo out there and would like to play it. 

So what is the number one thing that turns people off including me about this game? It would have to be the slow and outdated combat. Back then, lets say from 07-2010 at max the combat would have been acceptable but not for 2013. Now there are some other features about this game that  could turn people off (endgame grind, pvp) but lets talk about combat.

 

The announcement of the class revamp. If turbine gets this right this mmo will be in interest to a lot of new people. They said they are sticking more to the trinity, which is awesome imo. No more of that hybrid class system which makes everything very unbalanced. Tried GW2, best combat gamplay i have played but i need that trinity. 

 

Lets hope Turbine does not fail with this one.

  snoocky

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/10
Posts: 496

5/27/13 1:00:51 PM#2
Let them make the combat animations right first...
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5671

5/27/13 1:03:39 PM#3

Who knows if they'll get it right.  They get a lot of stuff almost right, but very few things are spot on.  Their wardrobe system was a home run in my opinion while their hobby system had the potential but rotted.

They done several revamps now.  The minstrel is nowhere near what it was on launch.  The poor hunter has never in a good spot.  It has been mediocre or super OP, but rarely in a sweet spot.

Funny you brought the topic up because I ended up on the LotRO forums last night in the hunter section and saw the revamp thread.  I thought it was a troll at first.  I mean that is the thread every hunter has wanted to see since hunters got their "month of" in update 8 or 9 and DangerDan nerfed the hell out of them.  There was some good stuff in that thread, but nothing that hasn't been said over and over again over the last five and a half years.

In all I hope they don't screw with the lore-master too much.  It's one of my favorite classes of any game I've ever played.  The game is still on my hard drive.  If they did do the revamp right and made their cash shop less gaudy and in your face then I would play it again for sure.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  xalvi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 343

 
OP  5/27/13 1:27:57 PM#4
Originally posted by Torvaldr

In all I hope they don't screw with the lore-master too much.  It's one of my favorite classes of any game I've ever played.  The game is still on my hard drive.  If they did do the revamp right and made their cash shop less gaudy and in your face then I would play it again for sure.

 

I kind of disagree when you say turbine gets many things right, but i don't think they can mess up on the revamp because of their statement that they made. They are pretty much canceling hybrid trait system and making trees with specific roles a.k.a trinity, ex; Minstrel either heal spec or dps spec. By doing this way, it makes turbine lives easier to balance classes but i wouldn't mind. 

Pretty much my advise if you are leveling a new class is to pick a class that role you like, because they are going. I think the lm would be fine. i think they said they are removing burgs cc role and making them full on debuffers, so if it is cc you like you're set. I got a burg and i love the idea of being a full blown debuffer, didn't care much for cc. Kind of liking turbine right now, can't believe im sayin this.

 

 

  flizzer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1155

5/27/13 1:35:42 PM#5
I've been playing GW2 heavy since launch last September and only recently got back in to LOTRO (I'm a lifer).  I just picked up the latest expansion, Rohan, and received my War-steed the other day.  I had a blast running around Rohan and chasing down boars and salamanders.   I would have to agree with almost everyone else on the lackluster combat, especially after coming from GW2.  The mounted combat, however, has a fresh, new feel to it that I love.  If they truly can revamp the combat to make it more appealing then I can imagine spending lots more time in this game.  After all, I still say story/lore is probably the best in any MMO today and the community remains outstanding. I had a problem with my epic quest line in Rohan and after asking in chat no one seemed to know the answer. A random player offered to group with me and spent more than an hour trying to solve my problem and eventually did.  I have taken extended breaks from this game and always enjoy coming back.  Looking forward to Helms in the Fall and this game going forward. There is just something special about Middle Earth.  And there are hobbits!
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5671

5/27/13 1:38:01 PM#6

I didn't say they get everything right.  I said they get a lot of stuff almost right.  For example, the Legendary Item system:  it was the right idea almost executed properly (especially the early iterations in testing), but in the end they fell short of implementing it properly and it took them more than 2 and a half years to iron out all the screwups.

If they over simplify the classes that will not make people happy.  People like hybrid roles and the game launched with classes specifically for that purpose - lore-master, burglar, and captain.  Support roles are by their nature hybrid.  Gutting that will piss off a huge portion of their playerbase.  I can't see them going that route.  It would be a huge nerf to burgs, LMs, RKs, and minstrels.  Why would they do that?

What is their goal in the revamp?  I saw the hunter forum thread, but the hunter is an awkward class at the moment, not all classes face this problem.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Destai

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/31/09
Posts: 487

5/27/13 1:43:23 PM#7

@OP

I'm totally with you on the combat system - it really needs a revamp. Did they actually say one is incoming or are you just hoping for one?

Current MMOs: Wildstar, Guild Wars 2, the Secret World, World of Warcraft

Past Loves: Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Everquest

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2002

5/27/13 1:59:33 PM#8
Originally posted by Torvaldr

If they over simplify the classes that will not make people happy. 

+1.

Not to mention in the last few years every time they fiddled with the classes, it turned out badly... (mini, warden in my case)

I admit maybe I'm too old-fashioned, but I like versatile classes with lots of skills and options, there's no need for simplification (-> dumbing down). Imo ofc.

 

Edit: (I was slow with the typing :) )  Destai, it's not the combat system, they plan to revamp the classes (dropping out lots of skills and rewrite the remaining under the flag "simplification", and re-editing the trait lines)

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5671

5/27/13 2:16:43 PM#9

I've searched the dev post forum and only see revamp threads for the following classes: hunter, burglar, and captain.  Has anyone seen a more general thread or one that discusses revamps for other classes?

I could see those classes getting some love especially the captain and hunter.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Issiea

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/13
Posts: 65

5/27/13 2:21:56 PM#10

Good to know this as I'd like to give this game another go.  I didn't make it past level 25 or so for some reason the combat/classes didn't appeal to me as much even though I'm quite a fan of the lore/story.

 

Here's hoping it will change for the better I would like to play something when I go on vacation in a couple of weeks.  By the way, when are these changes being implemented?

  WalterWhite

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 405

It's time to cook.

5/27/13 2:35:01 PM#11

An update to the combat animations is really needed but I hope they don't meddle too much with the classes as they have some of the best classes in any MMO.

I get a little nervous when an MMO get's a revamp as the last time an MMO I really enjoyed was SWG and we all know how that revamp went.

  xalvi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 343

 
OP  5/27/13 2:54:07 PM#12
Originally posted by BreakingBad

I hope they don't meddle too much with the classes as they have some of the best classes in any MMO.

 

My god bud, that is really debatable. Part of the reason they have such good class/roles is because they are using an IP, one of the best IP and it is LOTR. But saying they have one of the best classes in any mmo is really subjective.

 

Agreed on the fact they need to work on combat animations though, tbh hope they fix that before class revamp. But then again i think they will make animations with the revamp it only makes sense. 

 

To other posters who wanted more info about this here are the link:

 http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?509264-The-Lord-of-the-Rings-Online%99-Helm%92s-Deep%99

Detailed thread on the forums, on what they are planing with classes (its a post bashing turbine about the class revamp, i disagree with it though i like keeping role specific classes):

 http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?506048-Talent-trees-class-roles-and-player-choice

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5671

5/27/13 3:52:29 PM#13

Thanks xalvi.  Those links are very informative.

I can't say that my opinion really matters because I rarely login and play anymore.  But, I've been there since before the beginning and I can relate to Trilwych's concern.

I can't fathom why Turbine wants to rock the boat.  They have a dedicated core following that is happy enough with their class and combat mechanics, game world, and payment model.  I think it's a huge risk.  I have a bunch of suspicions but they aren't anything more than conjecture.  It just doesn't make sense to me at this point in the game's lifecycle that they believe they can breathe new life into the game through a class revamp.  The Turbine Engine is worn out.  If they really wanted to do something clever they would create a new engine that their old content could be updated to.

Anyway, the stated goal of making each branch of their tree be unique and purposeful is a good one.  I agree with Trilwych (I usually do) that going the EQ2/WoW talent tree approach will be a mistake.  Going the Rift style would be a better approach.

Overall I think it's a mistake to rock the boat too hard.  Seeing the neglected classes get overhauled is exciting.  Seeing the entire combat and class system revamped again (this will be at least combat 4.0 by now) is just awkward and uncomfortable.  At least that's my initial reaction.  Like I said above, they do a lot of stuff almost right.  I don't really have any confidence that it will be any different this time around.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  erictlewis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3058

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

5/27/13 4:12:50 PM#14

I remember when they went messing around with class balance beck with Mines of Moria, they screwed stuff up so bad for Mini's and for Captains a lot of folks who had those classes quit playing all together.   A lot of folks might not remember that.  I remember when we hit 65 and they started other class balance actions that messed with Lore Masters somewhat, making some skills always on and limiting the choices you had in the trees back in Mirkwood.   It was at that point I gave up playing and watched 2 lifetime subs just sit there and gather 500 points a month. 

Now I read all this, and you just have to shake your head and wonder what has happened. What a joke this is, somebody has lost their way, but I said that a long time ago. 

What it sounds like to me is making the game simple, no hard choice just clear cut paths, playing to the lowest common denominator the free to play player who does not have time to learn his class. 

 

  Destai

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/31/09
Posts: 487

5/27/13 8:25:00 PM#15
Originally posted by BreakingBad

An update to the combat animations is really needed but I hope they don't meddle too much with the classes as they have some of the best classes in any MMO.

I get a little nervous when an MMO get's a revamp as the last time an MMO I really enjoyed was SWG and we all know how that revamp went.

Yeah some of the classes were really fun when I played and could only benefit from making them smoother. The Runekeeper and Loremaster both had a some great mechanics. The attunement system felt so energetic, and I loved the control abilities of the Loremaster. Unfortunately, the pet was hardly responsive and combat skills would activate seconds later. 

Current MMOs: Wildstar, Guild Wars 2, the Secret World, World of Warcraft

Past Loves: Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Everquest

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5671

5/28/13 5:50:06 PM#16
Originally posted by Destai
Originally posted by BreakingBad

An update to the combat animations is really needed but I hope they don't meddle too much with the classes as they have some of the best classes in any MMO.

I get a little nervous when an MMO get's a revamp as the last time an MMO I really enjoyed was SWG and we all know how that revamp went.

Yeah some of the classes were really fun when I played and could only benefit from making them smoother. The Runekeeper and Loremaster both had a some great mechanics. The attunement system felt so energetic, and I loved the control abilities of the Loremaster. Unfortunately, the pet was hardly responsive and combat skills would activate seconds later. 

I don't think that was related to the LM though, but Turbine's aging engine.  That's why a total class revamp without addressing their dinosaur of an engine sort of baffles me.

The warden is another really interesting class by the way.  For those unaware there is a Graalx3 working on the Neverwinter team.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1720

5/28/13 5:56:14 PM#17
Originally posted by snoocky
Let them make the combat animations right first...

Man, tell me about it.  I cringe when I look at most of their animations.  This goes for combat and standard walk/run cycles.  Nothing has a sense of weight in that game as far as animations go.

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  syntax42

Elite Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1109

5/28/13 6:00:31 PM#18

My memory of past Turbine "revamps" is of minor balance changes that should have happened long ago.  I seem to remember them revamping certain classes before, but no powers were changed in function, just slight modifications to their values.

 

In any MMO, if you make too drastic of changes too fast, some players will feel alienated by the changes to "their class" and may quit playing.  Whichever direction they take, Turbine is risking losing players.

  Karnage69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/18/04
Posts: 248

"Those who fight and run away live to fight another day."

5/28/13 6:00:33 PM#19
Wow. I'm excited by this news. I couldn't ever "get into" the game because of my need for a trinity style game. I need that healer+tank combo. It's almost the entire reason I don't play GW2 or Lotro anymore.
  Thenextbigthing

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/02/12
Posts: 113

6/01/13 6:02:36 AM#20
The days of a true trinity in mmos is long gone. These days most players are solo and the classes in all games give options across healer/tank/dps. Most of the classes in lotro can self heal and all are soloable. There is no need for the trinity any more. You can define some as being better than others Guardians are still the best tanks, although Wardens are good, Minstrels are still the best healers, although Runekeepers can do as well, Champions are DPS, but most classes pack a punch. The only person you really need in dungeons is a dedicated healer, most classes can switch to other roles. We will never see the true trinity again, like there used to be in EQ, because finding groups in mmos outside of dungeons in a pain in the arse.
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