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Elder Scrolls Online

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General Discussion  » No World PvP? No Thanks...

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167 posts found
  NobleNerd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/08/08
Posts: 539

Try not!Do or do notThere is no try.

5/22/13 3:50:39 PM#81
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by ezduzit

I have to agree. PVP zones or arena have no place in a future MMO. It's part of the same old crap that is proven ineffective to the pvp community.

 

The DAoC model used in ESO for PvP is one well loved and reminisced by many hard core PvP fan. Myself included. They could not have picked a better PvP model IMO. Open world PvP everywhere mostly leads to two things. Players picking on low level chars and camping quest hubs. Or PvP groups spread out so thin you dont get much PvP action. All PvP focused on one big map means more large scale battles and removes the griefers. 

Yes DAoC pvp model was loved and missed by many since then. I think it is too early to put a thumbs down or thumbs up verdict on the pvp. One thing I know is it will be better than much of what is out there now. I for one like the concept of a massive zone for pvp. Open world pvp never was very affective in WoW, nor was the zone pvp (mostly because it was out leveled after so long).

NobleNerdom
Power to the player!

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3712

5/22/13 3:55:12 PM#82
Originally posted by eiekal

I'm reading alot about griefing.

 

Would it be fair to say that those that don't want more aspects of pvp in the game wouldnt be against it if there was a way to minimize griefing in the game? 

The more tools you add to remove it the more you pull away from open world PvP and the more you alienate open world PvP fans. Same thing in the other direction, the more you make the PvE world a PvP park the more you alienate pure PvEers. So you have to pick what game you wana make. There is very little compromise or wiggle room. IMO I think ESO picked the best option with the DAoC PvP model. Pure PvEers get their space and no one can force them to PvP or wreck their immersion by killing their bankers a quest givers. On the other side PvPers get a giant map where they get to do what they enjoy. Wana kill quest givers, you can. Wana run a dungeon where at any min you can run into the other faction, you can. Really is the best of both worlds.

  Kuro1n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 779

5/22/13 4:01:12 PM#83
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by eiekal

I'm reading alot about griefing.

 

Would it be fair to say that those that don't want more aspects of pvp in the game wouldnt be against it if there was a way to minimize griefing in the game? 

The more tools you add to remove it the more you pull away from open world PvP and the more you alienate open world PvP fans. Same thing in the other direction, the more you make the PvE world a PvP park the more you alienate pure PvEers. So you have to pick what game you wana make. There is very little compromise or wiggle room. IMO I think ESO picked the best option with the DAoC PvP model. Pure PvEers get their space and no one can force them to PvP or wreck their immersion by killing their bankers a quest givers. On the other side PvPers get a giant map where they get to do what they enjoy. Wana kill quest givers, you can. Wana run a dungeon where at any min you can run into the other faction, you can. Really is the best of both worlds.

It is not open world pvp if there are factions with invisible magic rules making it so you can't attack your own faction. Pure pvpers dont want lame factions, that is for esport and other silly things. The gw2 (and daoc?) model is extremely boring, having a separate map or certain part for PVEers means its not open world at all.

Also you didn't respond to my previous post about factions: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5743909#5743909

  eiekal

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/13
Posts: 20

5/22/13 4:04:43 PM#84
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Griefing occurs in these pve games like wow where they just flick a switch for "pvp" on some servers because there's bugger all else to do but greif.

That's a good point for those that like a flag system for pvp.  Maybe for that specific situation, it could be changed by having the name of the person flagging for pvp FLASH red for a certain amount of time, before being fully flagged for pvp, so the lowbie has time to recall or get away?   Or would this not work?

I havent played wow since they put in bg's and my memory is crap so I forgot how most of the game worked so I have to ask, why is the lowbie flagged for pvp?

  eiekal

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/13
Posts: 20

5/22/13 4:11:25 PM#85
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by eiekal

I'm reading alot about griefing.

 

Would it be fair to say that those that don't want more aspects of pvp in the game wouldnt be against it if there was a way to minimize griefing in the game? 

The more tools you add to remove it the more you pull away from open world PvP and the more you alienate open world PvP fans. Same thing in the other direction, the more you make the PvE world a PvP park the more you alienate pure PvEers. So you have to pick what game you wana make. There is very little compromise or wiggle room. IMO I think ESO picked the best option with the DAoC PvP model. Pure PvEers get their space and no one can force them to PvP or wreck their immersion by killing their bankers a quest givers. On the other side PvPers get a giant map where they get to do what they enjoy. Wana kill quest givers, you can. Wana run a dungeon where at any min you can run into the other faction, you can. Really is the best of both worlds.

Well for the record, I for one, would be willing to have pvp level restrictions to protect lowbies from being griefed in the game if it allowed Elder scrolls to put in more pvp aspects into the game =D

  whisperwynd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/22/06
Posts: 1470

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the priviledge to do so as well.

5/22/13 4:16:17 PM#86
Originally posted by eiekal
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Griefing occurs in these pve games like wow where they just flick a switch for "pvp" on some servers because there's bugger all else to do but greif.

That's a good point for those that like a flag system for pvp.  Maybe for that specific situation, it could be changed by having the name of the person flagging for pvp FLASH red for a certain amount of time, before being fully flagged for pvp, so the lowbie has time to recall or get away?   Or would this not work?

I havent played wow since they put in bg's and my memory is crap so I forgot how most of the game worked so I have to ask, why is the lowbie flagged for pvp?

In the first newbie zone, the lowbie is not flagged for PvP at all. The opposing faction may enter it but not attack players. Once the player hits somewhere like 20+ they enter zones that flag them automatically (if on a PvP server).

Not sure if it's still like this as I haven't played in a long while. But even at lvl 25, encountering a lvl 85 pr 90, there's is absolutely no chance to survive such an encounter even with stealth.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2118

joie de vivre

5/22/13 4:35:44 PM#87

This makes me very sad.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3712

5/22/13 4:40:56 PM#88
Originally posted by eiekal
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by eiekal

I'm reading alot about griefing.

 

Would it be fair to say that those that don't want more aspects of pvp in the game wouldnt be against it if there was a way to minimize griefing in the game? 

The more tools you add to remove it the more you pull away from open world PvP and the more you alienate open world PvP fans. Same thing in the other direction, the more you make the PvE world a PvP park the more you alienate pure PvEers. So you have to pick what game you wana make. There is very little compromise or wiggle room. IMO I think ESO picked the best option with the DAoC PvP model. Pure PvEers get their space and no one can force them to PvP or wreck their immersion by killing their bankers a quest givers. On the other side PvPers get a giant map where they get to do what they enjoy. Wana kill quest givers, you can. Wana run a dungeon where at any min you can run into the other faction, you can. Really is the best of both worlds.

Well for the record, I for one, would be willing to have pvp level restrictions to protect lowbies from being griefed in the game if it allowed Elder scrolls to put in more pvp aspects into the game =D

And for other open world fans that would be a game breaker.

  baphamet

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2668

110100100

5/22/13 4:44:24 PM#89


Originally posted by kizan0601
Too bad this game is going to end up just like swtor like someone else mentioned....for the open world pvpers....looks like Wildstar is going to gain a lot more players now.

and wildstar will not end up like SWTOR? unless you mean by having more people paying it a year after release than almost every other mmo does? in that case, i agree :)

oh and i lol'ed IRL when i read the last sentence in your post.


  Ozivois

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/10
Posts: 602

5/22/13 4:46:08 PM#90
Until someone figures out how to make open world pvp encounters reasonable there is no place for it in a AAA MMORPG. Most MMORPG players want to make their own decision about how to spend their time in a game; as soon as you add open world pvp to an environment, players in-game experiences are no longer in their control. I want to pvp when I want to pvp, quest when I want to quest, explore when I want to explore, and be solo or in group as my mood decides. I don't play MMOs to be the unwilling participant in someone else's pleasure; I play for my own pleasure. None of that is possible in an open pvp world. And I am pretty sure that "most players" feel the same way. If Elder Scrolls is for "most players", then the developers are doing the right thing. 
  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2565

5/22/13 4:46:09 PM#91
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Vinterkrig
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by ezduzit

I have to agree. PVP zones or arena have no place in a future MMO. It's part of the same old crap that is proven ineffective to the pvp community.

 

The DAoC model used in ESO for PvP is one well loved and reminisced by many hard core PvP fan. Myself included. They could not have picked a better PvP model IMO. Open world PvP everywhere mostly leads to two things. Players picking on low level chars and camping quest hubs. Or PvP groups spread out so thin you dont get much PvP action. All PvP focused on one big map means more large scale battles and removes the griefers. 

 

Yes, because GW2 did a great job at creating a zergy pile of skill less crap combat in WvW and it is very very very successful in making the people in WvW happy. Games that push zergs as much as possible, sucks.

Yup thats why when ESO comes out I will be playing ESO. Few reason why WvW is nothing but zergs. Almost no reason to defend and defending also has very little reward as well. In ESO you will have a Mega-dungeon like DAoC Darkness falls. In DAoC we used to rotate people in and out of Darkness Falls and defending keeps to give everyone a turn. Also ESO has made a huge promise of making defending have some very heavy rewards. GW2 gives you almost no reason to defend but ESO is already heading back to DAoC roots on making it well worth doing. Sure there wil be zergs in ESo as well but much like DAoC the organized PvP guilds knew how to deal with them and I have seen 20-40 players take out 80-100 players with skill. Like I said, if ESO is 75% of what DAoC was, ESO will be the best PvP game out now.

When was the last time y'all played GW2 or did you actually play? The zerg mentality is pretty much been gone out of PvP for months now.

 

People hold up DAoC as a beacon but please really remember how DAoC actually played and felt, at the time. Totally different with the nostalgia feeling y'all have for it.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  RandomDown

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/12
Posts: 148

5/22/13 4:47:15 PM#92
Why doesn't the OP just go to Cyrodil as early as possible then? You can go, and get bolstered, and PVE there while dealing with the PVP. All he wants to do is complain instead of utilizing the tools available in the game to get the experience he complains he can't have.
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3712

5/22/13 4:48:56 PM#93
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by eiekal

I'm reading alot about griefing.

 

Would it be fair to say that those that don't want more aspects of pvp in the game wouldnt be against it if there was a way to minimize griefing in the game? 

The more tools you add to remove it the more you pull away from open world PvP and the more you alienate open world PvP fans. Same thing in the other direction, the more you make the PvE world a PvP park the more you alienate pure PvEers. So you have to pick what game you wana make. There is very little compromise or wiggle room. IMO I think ESO picked the best option with the DAoC PvP model. Pure PvEers get their space and no one can force them to PvP or wreck their immersion by killing their bankers a quest givers. On the other side PvPers get a giant map where they get to do what they enjoy. Wana kill quest givers, you can. Wana run a dungeon where at any min you can run into the other faction, you can. Really is the best of both worlds.

It is not open world pvp if there are factions with invisible magic rules making it so you can't attack your own faction. Pure pvpers dont want lame factions, that is for esport and other silly things. The gw2 (and daoc?) model is extremely boring, having a separate map or certain part for PVEers means its not open world at all.

Also you didn't respond to my previous post about factions: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5743909#5743909

Then maybe I should point out... your on the wrong forum. This game is designed with 5-6 years behind them with 3 factions and a AvA map much like DAoC. By your avatar you know very well AA is the game for you. ESO would need to be reworked from the ground up to make it a open world PvP game everywhere. Heck even the AvA map would be useless as its designed now. Its designed for 3 factions to fight over it. So like I said, your on the wrong forum.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3712

5/22/13 4:52:21 PM#94
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Vinterkrig
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by ezduzit

I have to agree. PVP zones or arena have no place in a future MMO. It's part of the same old crap that is proven ineffective to the pvp community.

 

The DAoC model used in ESO for PvP is one well loved and reminisced by many hard core PvP fan. Myself included. They could not have picked a better PvP model IMO. Open world PvP everywhere mostly leads to two things. Players picking on low level chars and camping quest hubs. Or PvP groups spread out so thin you dont get much PvP action. All PvP focused on one big map means more large scale battles and removes the griefers. 

 

Yes, because GW2 did a great job at creating a zergy pile of skill less crap combat in WvW and it is very very very successful in making the people in WvW happy. Games that push zergs as much as possible, sucks.

Yup thats why when ESO comes out I will be playing ESO. Few reason why WvW is nothing but zergs. Almost no reason to defend and defending also has very little reward as well. In ESO you will have a Mega-dungeon like DAoC Darkness falls. In DAoC we used to rotate people in and out of Darkness Falls and defending keeps to give everyone a turn. Also ESO has made a huge promise of making defending have some very heavy rewards. GW2 gives you almost no reason to defend but ESO is already heading back to DAoC roots on making it well worth doing. Sure there wil be zergs in ESo as well but much like DAoC the organized PvP guilds knew how to deal with them and I have seen 20-40 players take out 80-100 players with skill. Like I said, if ESO is 75% of what DAoC was, ESO will be the best PvP game out now.

When was the last time y'all played GW2 or did you actually play? The zerg mentality is pretty much been gone out of PvP for months now.

 

People hold up DAoC as a beacon but please really remember how DAoC actually played and felt, at the time. Totally different with the nostalgia feeling y'all have for it.

Still actively playing. The zerging has calmed down some but there is still lots of zergs. Most battles are won by who has the most players. Im on a good server and some real hardcore WvWer and some great tactics are being used but sad to say most are how to deal with zergs lol. 

  baphamet

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2668

110100100

5/22/13 4:55:47 PM#95


Originally posted by Kuro1n

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by eiekal I'm reading alot about griefing.   Would it be fair to say that those that don't want more aspects of pvp in the game wouldnt be against it if there was a way to minimize griefing in the game? 
The more tools you add to remove it the more you pull away from open world PvP and the more you alienate open world PvP fans. Same thing in the other direction, the more you make the PvE world a PvP park the more you alienate pure PvEers. So you have to pick what game you wana make. There is very little compromise or wiggle room. IMO I think ESO picked the best option with the DAoC PvP model. Pure PvEers get their space and no one can force them to PvP or wreck their immersion by killing their bankers a quest givers. On the other side PvPers get a giant map where they get to do what they enjoy. Wana kill quest givers, you can. Wana run a dungeon where at any min you can run into the other faction, you can. Really is the best of both worlds.
It is not open world pvp if there are factions with invisible magic rules making it so you can't attack your own faction. Pure pvpers dont want lame factions, that is for esport and other silly things. The gw2 (and daoc?) model is extremely boring, having a separate map or certain part for PVEers means its not open world at all.

Also you didn't respond to my previous post about factions: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5743909#5743909


you are absolutely incorrect, open world pvp isn't exclusive to FFA pvp. having factions or not is irrelevant.

"open world pvp" just means that you can attack someone in the open world rather than only in certain designated areas, has nothing to do with the ruleset.

and i don't give a crap what "pure pvp'ers" want. if you were a pure pvper you wouldn't be playing rpg's, you would be playing FPS or even RTS.

this is coming from someone who also likes pvp but FFA isn't the be all end all of open world pvp, its just one type of open world pvp.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3712

5/22/13 5:01:09 PM#96
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by Kuro1n

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by eiekal I'm reading alot about griefing.   Would it be fair to say that those that don't want more aspects of pvp in the game wouldnt be against it if there was a way to minimize griefing in the game? 
The more tools you add to remove it the more you pull away from open world PvP and the more you alienate open world PvP fans. Same thing in the other direction, the more you make the PvE world a PvP park the more you alienate pure PvEers. So you have to pick what game you wana make. There is very little compromise or wiggle room. IMO I think ESO picked the best option with the DAoC PvP model. Pure PvEers get their space and no one can force them to PvP or wreck their immersion by killing their bankers a quest givers. On the other side PvPers get a giant map where they get to do what they enjoy. Wana kill quest givers, you can. Wana run a dungeon where at any min you can run into the other faction, you can. Really is the best of both worlds.
It is not open world pvp if there are factions with invisible magic rules making it so you can't attack your own faction. Pure pvpers dont want lame factions, that is for esport and other silly things. The gw2 (and daoc?) model is extremely boring, having a separate map or certain part for PVEers means its not open world at all.

 

Also you didn't respond to my previous post about factions: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5743909#5743909


 

you are absolutely incorrect, open world pvp isn't exclusive to FFA pvp. having factions or not is irrelevant.

"open world pvp" just means that you can attack someone in the open world rather than only in certain designated areas, has nothing to do with the ruleset.

and i don't give a crap what "pure pvp'ers" want. if you were a pure pvper you wouldn't be playing rpg's, you would be playing FPS or even RTS.

this is coming from someone who also likes pvp but FFA isn't the be all end all of open world pvp, its just one type of open world pvp.

 

Well said and 100% correct. 

  Kuro1n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 779

5/22/13 5:55:59 PM#97
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by eiekal

I'm reading alot about griefing.

 

Would it be fair to say that those that don't want more aspects of pvp in the game wouldnt be against it if there was a way to minimize griefing in the game? 

The more tools you add to remove it the more you pull away from open world PvP and the more you alienate open world PvP fans. Same thing in the other direction, the more you make the PvE world a PvP park the more you alienate pure PvEers. So you have to pick what game you wana make. There is very little compromise or wiggle room. IMO I think ESO picked the best option with the DAoC PvP model. Pure PvEers get their space and no one can force them to PvP or wreck their immersion by killing their bankers a quest givers. On the other side PvPers get a giant map where they get to do what they enjoy. Wana kill quest givers, you can. Wana run a dungeon where at any min you can run into the other faction, you can. Really is the best of both worlds.

It is not open world pvp if there are factions with invisible magic rules making it so you can't attack your own faction. Pure pvpers dont want lame factions, that is for esport and other silly things. The gw2 (and daoc?) model is extremely boring, having a separate map or certain part for PVEers means its not open world at all.

Also you didn't respond to my previous post about factions: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5743909#5743909

Then maybe I should point out... your on the wrong forum. This game is designed with 5-6 years behind them with 3 factions and a AvA map much like DAoC. By your avatar you know very well AA is the game for you. ESO would need to be reworked from the ground up to make it a open world PvP game everywhere. Heck even the AvA map would be useless as its designed now. Its designed for 3 factions to fight over it. So like I said, your on the wrong forum.

Sadly I'm starting to believe AA won't be the game for me either. To much punishment for being a pirate. :(

 

 

Originally posted by baphamet
Originally posted by Kuro1n

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by eiekal I'm reading alot about griefing.   Would it be fair to say that those that don't want more aspects of pvp in the game wouldnt be against it if there was a way to minimize griefing in the game? 
The more tools you add to remove it the more you pull away from open world PvP and the more you alienate open world PvP fans. Same thing in the other direction, the more you make the PvE world a PvP park the more you alienate pure PvEers. So you have to pick what game you wana make. There is very little compromise or wiggle room. IMO I think ESO picked the best option with the DAoC PvP model. Pure PvEers get their space and no one can force them to PvP or wreck their immersion by killing their bankers a quest givers. On the other side PvPers get a giant map where they get to do what they enjoy. Wana kill quest givers, you can. Wana run a dungeon where at any min you can run into the other faction, you can. Really is the best of both worlds.
It is not open world pvp if there are factions with invisible magic rules making it so you can't attack your own faction. Pure pvpers dont want lame factions, that is for esport and other silly things. The gw2 (and daoc?) model is extremely boring, having a separate map or certain part for PVEers means its not open world at all.

Also you didn't respond to my previous post about factions: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5743909#5743909

you are absolutely incorrect, open world pvp isn't exclusive to FFA pvp. having factions or not is irrelevant.

"open world pvp" just means that you can attack someone in the open world rather than only in certain designated areas, has nothing to do with the ruleset.

and i don't give a crap what "pure pvp'ers" want. if you were a pure pvper you wouldn't be playing rpg's, you would be playing FPS or even RTS.

this is coming from someone who also likes pvp but FFA isn't the be all end all of open world pvp, its just one type of open world pvp.

Well open world has to do with factions also imo. Otherwise it is just faction PVP in either designated or nondesignated areas. Actually I wasn't the one who used the term first, I just repeated it because I don't think there is such a thing as pure PVPer or w/e. And yes I do play competetively in FPS games and also playing Darkfall which features FPS type combat that doesn't mean I don't like RPGs though because as I said, I'm not looking for some fair battle or esport type gameplay when im in an MMORPG, stats and such should be there just like zerging and elite clans... It's all part of the 'war'.

 

  Punk999

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/04
Posts: 882

5/22/13 6:13:58 PM#98

There are plenty of other games  that will have your meaningless world pvp.

Wildstar for example.

PVP servers that have zero world pvp content at launch but instance pvp just like wow.

 

Edit: Dont take this the wrong way either wildstar fans. I am looking forward to it as well.

"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com

  Kuro1n

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 779

5/22/13 6:20:41 PM#99
Originally posted by Punk999

There are plenty of other games  that will have your meaningless world pvp.

Wildstar for example.

PVP servers that have zero world pvp content at launch but instance pvp just like wow.

Yeah not everyone can handle real PVP I guess. :)

WoW is a bad example, PVE game where they just smacked on PVP + it is faction based and casual.

  Punk999

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/04
Posts: 882

5/22/13 6:29:46 PM#100
Originally posted by Kuro1n
Originally posted by Punk999

There are plenty of other games  that will have your meaningless world pvp.

Wildstar for example.

PVP servers that have zero world pvp content at launch but instance pvp just like wow.

Yeah not everyone can handle real PVP I guess. :)

WoW is a bad example, PVE game where they just smacked on PVP + it is faction based and casual.

I dont mind this "Real pvp" My favorite MMO PVP is AC Darktide server and next would be shadowbane.

Theres no need for worldpvp if you dont lose anything when you die.

"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com

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