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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » I'm so confused about how this game is thriving...

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383 posts found
  dotdotdash

Elite Member

Joined: 6/01/11
Posts: 360

5/17/13 10:36:22 AM#81


Originally posted by Muke

Originally posted by Caldrin

Originally posted by DanitaKusor Most MMOs soon abandon levelling zones, Guild Wars 2 is no exception. One of the reasons I think game levelling content is a waste of time.  An MMO with all endgame content would be far preferable to one that spends its entire budget on leveling content that people only do once.
No lets not get rid of character progression thats part of what makes a MMORPG a MMORPG..   What we need is a good game that people will enjoy playing multiple times..  
sandbox.

It's not even about sandbox being better than themepark.

There are some truly awful sandbox games out there that gamers have shunned, in the same way that there's a plethora of truly awful themepark games out now that we shun.

  doodphace

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1719

5/17/13 10:42:22 AM#82
Originally posted by dotdotdash

 


Originally posted by Muke

Originally posted by Caldrin

Originally posted by DanitaKusor Most MMOs soon abandon levelling zones, Guild Wars 2 is no exception. One of the reasons I think game levelling content is a waste of time.  An MMO with all endgame content would be far preferable to one that spends its entire budget on leveling content that people only do once.
No lets not get rid of character progression thats part of what makes a MMORPG a MMORPG..   What we need is a good game that people will enjoy playing multiple times..  
sandbox.

 

It's not even about sandbox being better than themepark.

There are some truly awful sandbox games out there that gamers have shunned, in the same way that there's a plethora of truly awful themepark games out now that we shun.

True. While the game is doing ok, its not "thriving" in the sense that it was at launch. Some form of endgame progression will turn that around immediately.

PS:...dont reply with "ZOMG WE DONT NEED SHINY WOW RAID GEAR TREADMILL CARROT"..im talking about any form of charecter progression. ANet is a good company, im sure they can come up with more than a gear treadmill.

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

5/17/13 10:42:42 AM#83


Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Originally posted by ZedTheRock Sure looks like the server is dead doesnt it?
This can't be true, 10am on a week work day?

You must have faked that screenshot!

 

(/sarcasm) ;-)




It's entirely possible for a highly populated server to look empty under the right conditions. That's the problem with anecdotes. They give a very tiny view into a situation.

It doesn't change the experience of the individual telling the anecdote though. If person A doesn't see anyone, the whole server looks empty. It doesn't matter if everyone is just on the other side of a wall or not.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4847

5/17/13 10:44:55 AM#84
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by aesperus
**snip**

That is your own interpretation of me simply questioning someone calling a poster 'a liar' for mentioning low population on other server which are obviously not heavily populated like TC. I don't see from where you got the 'sky is falling' bit.

But is it true that every time in a MMO this topic is brought up fans start using their own heavily populated servers to undermine the larger issue? yes.

Their accusations aren't entirely baseless, though.

According to the OP he's on the server Blackgate. If you look at the list I linked in my previous post, Blackgate is one of the top 3 servers (both in WvW and in Population). It rivals the population of Tarnished Coast. Now, if someone came on here saying 'Tarnished Coast has no players!?! this game must be failing!!' Would you think they were being truthful?

Even if you were to give him the benefit of the doubt, it's such a disproportionate claim to the data (and experience) most of us have had w/ that server, that it kinda warrants some kind of proof, no?

As for the 'sky is falling' comment,  I'm merely stated that, in your previous post, you're being just as over-dramatic as your accusing the fans of being. On this site especially, it's deemed 'more acceptable' to be overly skeptical / negative, than it is to be positive, for whatever reason. Maybe it's all the people who feel like they've been burnt. It's fairly common on this site, but the truth is often more in the middle.

Not saying that there aren't overly-zealous fans, but there are in every popular game. It doesn't mean that anyone who defends a game is being ridiculous or a fanboy. Especially when a game gets hated on as much as GW2 does.

  Vorch

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 809

5/17/13 10:49:59 AM#85

It seems the issue for many is that people are playing, but not playing in the open world. Most are in dungeons, Orr, Southsun Cove post-update, and fractals. That leaves the rest of the world "empty" when meta-events are not occurring.

They took a step in the right direction by scaling green and gold loot from all enemies (they will be at your level no matter what zone you are in).

I think that they also need to scale DE rewards as well. Scale higher levels down a *bit* more, and then equalize all events. Waypoint fees also could be cut in half to help out a bit.

 

Other than that, the game is doing fine. I laugh at the whole "Sales are down" pitch...that is EXACTLY how a buy to play game works. You wouldn't call Fable or Skyrim a failure if sales of the game dropped 3 and 6 months after release...you don't need to pay to play the game again! You buy once, pay for items that you want, and play when you want...server fees are a lot cheaper than they were in the past.

If a GW2 expansion doesn't sell well, THEN you can talk about the game doing poorly...but til then, my personal experience has been great since launch.

"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

5/17/13 10:50:59 AM#86
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by aesperus
**snip**

That is your own interpretation of me simply questioning someone calling a poster 'a liar' for mentioning low population on other server which are obviously not heavily populated like TC. I don't see from where you got the 'sky is falling' bit.

But is it true that every time in a MMO this topic is brought up fans start using their own heavily populated servers to undermine the larger issue? yes.

Their accusations aren't entirely baseless, though.

According to the OP he's on the server Blackgate. If you look at the list I linked in my previous post, Blackgate is one of the top 3 servers (both in WvW and in Population). It rivals the population of Tarnished Coast. Now, if someone came on here saying 'Tarnished Coast has no players!?! this game must be failing!!' Would you think they were being truthful?

Even if you were to give him the benefit of the doubt, it's such a disproportionate claim to the data (and experience) most of us have had w/ that server, that it kinda warrants some kind of proof, no?

As for the 'sky is falling' comment,  I'm merely stated that, in your previous post, you're being just as over-dramatic as your accusing the fans of being. On this site especially, it's deemed 'more acceptable' to be overly skeptical / negative, than it is to be positive, for whatever reason. Maybe it's all the people who feel like they've been burnt. It's fairly common on this site, but the truth is often more in the middle.

Not saying that there aren't overly-zealous fans, but there are in every popular game. It doesn't mean that anyone who defends a game is being ridiculous or a fanboy. Especially when a game gets hated on as much as GW2 does.

I was talking about MMOS in general. Not just GW2. I have seen this happening with virtually every MMO to this date. i thought i made this point clear in earlier post. Do i ever expect fans to acknowledge the issue without dishing out clinched insults ? nope. I think there are better chances that pigs will fly some day than fan of any MMO admitting that 'yes our MMO indeed is having population issues'. Once again if you read my previous comment i was talking about MMOS in general and how things goes once population issues are brought up and so far this topic has been on the proven track.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2893

There... are... four... lights!

5/17/13 10:53:29 AM#87

I guested on one of the lowest pop servers of Europe, Seafarer's Rest.

It's a work day here in Europe, definitely not prime time either. I'll redo one at prime time if you want.

Troll event:

[mod edit]

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2676

5/17/13 10:54:24 AM#88

So I just quickly grabbed myself another account, chose Seaferers Rest (Eu), a medium population server (so should be empty), rolled a Norn, one of the least popular starting areas/races, and just out of the tutorial area I was playing with 2 other people.

All this on a friday, before 4 GMT.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2893

There... are... four... lights!

5/17/13 10:57:17 AM#89
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

So I just quickly grabbed myself another account, chose Seaferers Rest (Eu), a medium population server (so should be empty), rolled a Norn, one of the least popular starting areas/races, and just out of the tutorial area I was playing with 2 other people.

All this on a friday, before 4 GMT.

Hehe amusing, same server for my screenie above :)

Yep, the game is dead, no doubt.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2824

We all breathe and we all die.

5/17/13 10:57:19 AM#90
Originally posted by dotdotdash

 


Originally posted by DanitaKusor
Most MMOs soon abandon levelling zones, Guild Wars 2 is no exception. One of the reasons I think game levelling content is a waste of time.  An MMO with all endgame content would be far preferable to one that spends its entire budget on leveling content that people only do once.

 

Personally I don't understand why a developer hasn't looked at the TES series for inspiration in this area.

It stands to reason that players in general need a sense of progression through the game to inspire them to move forward, to give them a reason to play. So a leveling system is not inherently a bad thing; it's a straightforward measure of that progress (and, not to mention, a fundamental element of the RPG genre). So I don't think removing leveling is the answer.

I think the answer lies in dynamic content scaling. That is to say that when I join the game at level 1, I should not be set on a path to particular zones at level 60. Instead, all monsters and quests in the game world should offer rewards and experience that scales to my level. If I get to a zone and decide I do not want to be there, I should be free to move to any other zone in the game. When I tag a monster, it's damage, health and other such elements should automatically scale to whatever level I am.

In addition to this, class skills shouldn't be level gated. When I "ding", I should be able to choose what skills I want from a wide pool. There may well be some skills that require other skills to be taken before they can be picked up, but the bulk of the skills available to me should be available to me whenever I want them. If I move to X zone, and X boxx has X skill that I can't deal with, I should be able to go to my class skill trainer and pick up skills that would allow me to deal with that boss. The higher my level, the more skills I can unlock. Again, there's no reason a linear "suggested" system could not be included that suggests skills based on the zone you are in, or the level you are at, or based on the skills that you've already chosen, but I should be free to do it my way if I want to.

Gaming culture on the development side of things is all about concentrated content and features. GW2 is no exception to this, which is why I don't play it. Developers like Blizzard and ArenaNet think that novel systems, such as sitting down and having to drink every so often, are worthless because they just waste time. The reality is that MOST gamers are playing for the experience, not for concentrated content and features. MOST gamers WANT novel elements to their games, and find great joy in them. LotRo for example may not be the best MMO in the world, but it's instrument system makes it memorable (I had HOURS of fun playing my lute). Again, RIFT may not be the best MMO in the world but the Dimension system (and the soul tree system) make it memorable; regarding the soul system: it may not be a requirement - there may be cookie cutter builds - but it's fun, it's interesting, and it's unique. And there's a reason that "general gaming audiences" when a bit nuts about Eve Online and Walking in Stations (even though it appears to be cancelled now); it was novel, it looked fun, and it added a memorable layer to the game.

I sincerely hope developers and designers of the next generation aren't as lazy and unimaginative as the bunch we have now. I hope Kickstarter school conventional studios hard.

Ohhhhh boy *sighs*

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Whitebeards

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 823

5/17/13 11:02:23 AM#91
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

So I just quickly grabbed myself another account, chose Seaferers Rest (Eu), a medium population server (so should be empty), rolled a Norn, one of the least popular starting areas/races, and just out of the tutorial area I was playing with 2 other people.

All this on a friday, before 4 GMT.

Hehe amusing, same server for my screenie above :)

Yep, the game is dead, no doubt.

Oh look at you two so hard at work trying to prove something. Unless you got the data from all the 51 servers you are not in any position to make claim about GW2 being dead or alive.

These screenshots are as legit as fans of SWTOR posting screenshot of starfleet and the selective areas to show how one server was very populated (which obviously according to them meant entire game is doing great) while rest were dwindling in numbers...and then merge happened.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2676

5/17/13 11:08:18 AM#92
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

So I just quickly grabbed myself another account, chose Seaferers Rest (Eu), a medium population server (so should be empty), rolled a Norn, one of the least popular starting areas/races, and just out of the tutorial area I was playing with 2 other people.

All this on a friday, before 4 GMT.

Hehe amusing, same server for my screenie above :)

Yep, the game is dead, no doubt.

Oh look at you two so hard at work trying to prove something. Unless you got the data from all the 51 servers you are not in any position to make claim about GW2 being dead or alive.

These screenshots are as legit as fans of SWTOR posting screenshot of starfleet and the selective areas to show how one server was very populated while rest where dwindling in numbers...and then merge happened.

Sure server mergers and people being laid off will disprove my argument.

What will disprove the argument of the game being empty?

High population servers don't count.

LA screen shots don't count either.

Now, even screenshots of low population servers, at off peak times, in one of the least popular starting area/race don[t count either.

Again what disproves it?

SWTOR had layoffs and server mergers within 4 months of release.

The game is dying song for GW2 started in September

Almost 9 months later no layoffs, no server mergers.

Not that server merges prove or disprove anything.

Blizzard does no server merges even when they lost 4 million people in the last 2 years or so.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  keirion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 48

5/17/13 11:10:37 AM#93
Originally posted by Whitebeards

Oh look at you two so hard at work trying to prove something. Unless you got the data from all the 51 servers you are not in any position to make claim about GW2 being dead or alive.

These screenshots are as legit as fans of SWTOR posting screenshot of starfleet and the selective areas to show how one server was very populated (which obviously according to them meant entire game is doing great) while rest were dwindling in numbers...and then merge happened.

Actually you are incorrect. Information has been offered with screenshots which were requested to point out that even the less populated servers have a population in the starting zones, which was the complaint of the op in one of the more populated servers.

Therefore, unless evidence can be offered to the contrary, as the data shows at this point, the OP was incorrect and therefore his points are invalid, end of discussion.

  Whitebeards

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 823

5/17/13 11:15:01 AM#94

To two posters above me. Once again..there are 51 servers in this game. if OP has no leg to stand on to make a claim about dwindling population  neither do you guys or anyone else posting screenshots from couple of servers. 

Data my a**!

 

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2893

There... are... four... lights!

5/17/13 11:15:52 AM#95
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Almost 9 months later no layoffs, no server mergers.

Actually, not only no layoff, but ArenaNET are RECRUITING more people all the time.

Their "Career" page is full.

I'm sure they plan to pay all those people with the money they get from their "dying" game.

That's approximatively the same time after release when SW:TOR was starting the layoffs.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2676

5/17/13 11:21:59 AM#96
Originally posted by Whitebeards

To two posters above me. Once again..there are 51 servers in this game. if OP has no leg to stand on to make a claim about dwindling population  neither do you guys or anyone else posting screenshots from couple of servers. 

Data my a**!

 

What servers are dying then?

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  doodphace

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1719

5/17/13 11:23:44 AM#97
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Almost 9 months later no layoffs, no server mergers.

Actually, not only no layoff, but ArenaNET are RECRUITING more people all the time.

Their "Career" page is full.

I'm sure they plan to pay all those people with the money they get from their "dying" game.

That's approximatively the same time after release when SW:TOR was starting the layoffs.

Their payroll wasn't built for and doesn't depend on subscriptions. The game could theoretically have 0 players, but the boxes were already sold.

Im not implying the game is dead or dying, just pointing out the flaws in your defense.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2893

There... are... four... lights!

5/17/13 11:27:49 AM#98
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Whitebeards

To two posters above me. Once again..there are 51 servers in this game. if OP has no leg to stand on to make a claim about dwindling population  neither do you guys or anyone else posting screenshots from couple of servers. 

Data my a**!

 

What servers are dying then?

Good point actually, Gaia... isn't it those who make the claim who should prove it?

Originally posted by doodphace

Their payroll wasn't built for and doesn't depend on subscriptions. The game could theoretically have 0 players, but the boxes were already sold.

Im not implying the game is dead or dying, just pointing out the flaws in your defense.

What you post makes no sense here. Have you ever been in charge of a company? Me, yes.

You can't keep hiring and paying people if you don't have a steady income somewhere, people won't stay if they aren't paid. That's why Bioware fired so many people, and I remind you that SW:TOR was a buy to play + subscription game with a box price just as high as GW2.

Fact is, ArenaNET gets enough income from its game to be able to hire more people to make it run. No company worth its grain of salt is stupid enough to invest on a failing product. You can be sure they get a steady flow from GW2 from both new box sales, but also from gem purchases. And people who purchase all those gems are... yes, you guessed, bravo! Active players!

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  doodphace

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1719

5/17/13 11:38:53 AM#99
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Whitebeards

To two posters above me. Once again..there are 51 servers in this game. if OP has no leg to stand on to make a claim about dwindling population  neither do you guys or anyone else posting screenshots from couple of servers. 

Data my a**!

 

What servers are dying then?

Good point actually, Gaia... isn't it those who make the claim who should prove it?

Originally posted by doodphace

Their payroll wasn't built for and doesn't depend on subscriptions. The game could theoretically have 0 players, but the boxes were already sold.

Im not implying the game is dead or dying, just pointing out the flaws in your defense.

What you post makes no sense here. Have you ever been in charge of a company? Me, yes.

You can't keep hiring and paying people if you don't have a steady income somewhere, people won't stay if they aren't paid. That's why Bioware fired so many people, and I remind you that SW:TOR was a buy to play + subscription game with a box price just as high as GW2.

Fact is, ArenaNET gets enough income from its game to be able to hire more people to make it run. No company worth its grain of salt is stupid enough to invest on a failing product. You can be sure they get a steady flow from GW2 from both new box sales, but also from gem purchases. And people who purchase all those gems are... yes, you guessed, bravo! Active players!

And need I remind you that Bioware built their huge team with continued subscription income in mind? Why does logic go completely out the window when it comes to GW2 on this site? Not to mention that ANet completely reorganized their teams after launch due to their business model (smartly).

Again, you take that post as me saying GW2 is dead...when in reality the point was that they can afford a larger active player dropoff than an MMO basing their staff off of subscriptions...The GW2 heroes on these forms really need to calm down and breath lol

 

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2893

There... are... four... lights!

5/17/13 11:47:18 AM#100
Originally posted by doodphace

And need I remind you that Bioware built their huge team with continued subscription income in mind? Why does logic go completely out the window when it comes to GW2 on this site? Not to mention that ANet completely reorganized their teams after launch due to their business model (smartly).

Again, you take that post as me saying GW2 is dead...when in reality the point was that they can afford a larger active player dropoff than an MMO basing their staff off of subscriptions...The GW2 heroes on these forms really need to calm down and breath lol

[mod edit]

Do you really think ArenaNET made GW2 without expecting to sell a healthy amount of gems regularly? Gems are GW2's equivalent of a subscription.

And do you really think they would hire more people if they weren't sure they could afford them?

Fact is, they have enough players buying enough gems to allow them to hire people almost constantly since the game's release.

Fact also is, SW:TOR did NOT have enough subscription money to hire people when needed, and instead of that, they fired a good amount of them. Not to mention SW:TOR had a world wide popular IP GW2 does not have, making things even worse.

So when you compare a game relying on a rather "unreliable" way of income, buy to play with non mandatory gems sales, but yet still hiring more people each month, with a game which relied back then on a safe way of income, buy to play AND a MANDATORY subscription each month, firing people, you know which game is successful and which one tanked badly.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

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