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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » I'm so confused about how this game is thriving...

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383 posts found
  keirion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 48

5/17/13 9:40:54 AM#41
Starting zones: I`ve never seen these without lots of players. Even in off hours someone will say `Troll` and a half dozen people will show up for the event.

Later zones: Currently I can`t get into my server in Southsun Cove (that anyone gets scaled up to 80 for atm) because of all the people playing there even at off hours.

Overall Playerbase: In February they said the number of players playing had been growing for something like 2 months every week after the original dropoff. I haven`t heard numbers recently but my personal experience has been more wvw queues, larger dragon zergs, etc.

End game: If you mean there are no 10-25 man raids you`re right. However, there are 34 dungeons, dozens of open world mini-dungeons with challenge, living world content coming each week, dailies for those who like that, gear to work toward a bit for stats and more for appearance, and large world boss zergs. To say there is `no` endgame is just factually inaccurate. There is quite a bit for many different playstyles, just not hardcore raiding.
  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

5/17/13 9:42:37 AM#42
Originally posted by Normandy7
You see WoW has an excuse why people have left the old leveling zones, it is an old game. The same with other games but GW2 has no excuse why this happened. GW2 is still very new and yes op the living world in GW2 is pretty much barren for the simple fact that people have already left for good. You will only get a handful of people at best in the lower level areas.

Wrong. I have leveled a new character in GW2 recently, and the starter areas are actually packed at peak hours and still alive with players at off hours. Gandara (EU) server.  And in the higher level areas, each time I announced a group event on map chat, more than enough people showed up to beat the event.

Of course you can't see that when you don't even play the game but just post assumptions about what you believe happens on forums...

I can't say the same about WoW's starter zones or Pandaria zones. The starter zones are empty (except a few kiddies duelling in goldshire with twinks or with high level char against level 5 ones), same for the Pandaria ones, and that was last November, not even 2 months after the release of the expansion.

 

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  ThomasN7

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6672

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

5/17/13 9:45:56 AM#43
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Normandy7
You see WoW has an excuse why people have left the old leveling zones, it is an old game. The same with other games but GW2 has no excuse why this happened. GW2 is still very new and yes op the living world in GW2 is pretty much barren for the simple fact that people have already left for good. You will only get a handful of people at best in the lower level areas.

Wrong. I have leveled a new character in GW2 recently, and the starter areas are actually packed at peak hours and still alive with players at off hours. Gandara (EU) server.

Of course you can't see that when you don't even play the game but just post on forums...

That is so not true. I tried this game many times on many different servers way after launch. The only time servers were hopping was at launch and now over time only a small few servers have decent population at best. I understand it might be your favorite game but I'm sorry, facts are facts here.

  doodphace

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1719

5/17/13 9:47:02 AM#44
Originally posted by Aeander
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112

GW2 has impressive game quality, especially considering all the crap that's been slung at us over the years. It's the only game to put any sort of dent into WoW in the past 8 years.

That said, the game was sorely missing a key component. A point to playing it after the brief fun wears off.

Now there's a problem - why do you need a reason to play a game? "Fun" should more than suffice. Why does your character need bonus stats on his epicly rare legendary sword of fabled shinyness in order for you to continue playing? 

 

If the fun wears off, it's because of a sadly limited number of available skills and a lack of viable builds, not a lack of a purpose. 

The main purpose of RPGs is to improve your character, make him/her stronger over time. Most Themepark MMOs do this with gear. If ANet can come up with a meaningfull non gear related endgame improvement system, power to them, but until there is some type of character progressions at endgame, its endgame is little more than "Unreal Tournament".

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

5/17/13 9:47:42 AM#45
Originally posted by Normandy7
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Normandy7
You see WoW has an excuse why people have left the old leveling zones, it is an old game. The same with other games but GW2 has no excuse why this happened. GW2 is still very new and yes op the living world in GW2 is pretty much barren for the simple fact that people have already left for good. You will only get a handful of people at best in the lower level areas.

Wrong. I have leveled a new character in GW2 recently, and the starter areas are actually packed at peak hours and still alive with players at off hours. Gandara (EU) server.

Of course you can't see that when you don't even play the game but just post on forums...

That is so not true. I tried this game many times on many different servers way after launch. The only time servers were hopping was at launch and now over time only a small few servers have decent population at best. I understand it might be your favorite game but I'm sorry, facts are facts here.

Your facts are wrong and/or dated then. My facts date from now, since I play this game daily, with various chars of various levels.

Don't confuse your opinion and perception with facts.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  killion81

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 915

5/17/13 9:48:03 AM#46
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by lizardbones

"Lots of new players" is a relative thing. I would bet that the vast majority of players are at or near the top levels in the game and are doing whatever it is people do in GW2 at the top level.

I would also bet that people don't play nearly as regularly as they would with a subscription game. The people play when they want to play, instead of playing every day because they've spent the money on the sub.

Combine these two things and you can have a "booming" game, where a new player doesn't see too many other players.

I don't know... I'm playing just as much or more than I did in my WoW raiding days, but it's not scheduled, just because I want to. Well, Friday night reset... I guess that's technically scheduled, but if you WvW that's kind of "THE" time to play. Looked last night, I've 1960 hours so far in this game and I'm seeing people with well over 2K.

 

That's pretty close to 8 hours per day, every single day since release.  I guess a small handful of people REALLY like it.  Most people I know got bored of it within a month.

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

5/17/13 9:50:12 AM#47
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Normandy7
You see WoW has an excuse why people have left the old leveling zones, it is an old game. The same with other games but GW2 has no excuse why this happened. GW2 is still very new and yes op the living world in GW2 is pretty much barren for the simple fact that people have already left for good. You will only get a handful of people at best in the lower level areas.

Wrong. I have leveled a new character in GW2 recently, and the starter areas are actually packed at peak hours and still alive with players at off hours. Gandara (EU) server.  And in the higher level areas, each time I announced a group event on map chat, more than enough people showed up to beat the event.

Of course you can't see that when you don't even play the game but just post assumptions about what you believe happens on forums...

I can't say the same about WoW's starter zones or Pandaria zones. The starter zones are empty (except a few kiddies duelling in goldshire with twinks or with high level char against level 5 ones), same for the Pandaria ones, and that was last November, not even 2 months after the release of the expansion.

 

In every MMO when someone brings up issue of population dwindling on their server someone like you always pops his head out of the bush and says 'but my server is doing great', well good for you but that means nothing because GW2 has a lot more other servers which are not doing so well.

So what i did? i got my 1,800 gems and transferred to Tarnished Coast. Sooner or later ANET will have to suck it up and merge servers. Till then? ignorance is bliss.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

5/17/13 9:51:15 AM#48
Originally posted by doodphace 

The main purpose of RPGs is to improve your character, make him/her stronger over time. Most Themepark MMOs do this with gear. If ANet can come up with a meaningfull non gear related endgame improvement system, power to them, but until there is some type of character progressions at endgame, its endgame is little more than "Unreal Tournament".

Wrong. That's what games like EQ or WoW have made people believe, but it's wrong.

The main purpose of a RPG is and has always been, since Dungeon and Dragons and Chainmail before, to roleplay a character, exploring new places and living adventures. Hell, some RPGs don't even have combat.

It's the EQ/WoW clones which made those games into hamster wheels where the primary purpose is to grind gear, and also sadly fooled people into thinking that's what RPGs are all about.

RPG means "Role Playing Game", and not "Raid Plenty for Gear".

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  doodphace

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1719

5/17/13 9:54:08 AM#49
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by doodphace 

The main purpose of RPGs is to improve your character, make him/her stronger over time. Most Themepark MMOs do this with gear. If ANet can come up with a meaningfull non gear related endgame improvement system, power to them, but until there is some type of character progressions at endgame, its endgame is little more than "Unreal Tournament".

Wrong. That's what games like EQ or WoW have made people believe, but it's wrong.

The main purpose of a RPG is and has always been, since Dungeon and Dragons and Chainmail before, to roleplay a character, explore new places and live adventures with it. It's the EQ/WoW clones which made those games into hamster wheels where the primary purpose is to grind gears.

RPG means "Role Playing Game", and not "Raid Plenty for Gear".

Who said anything about mandatory raids? AoC has an alternate endgame progressions system completely independent of gear...you need to calm down and stop bringing up WoW and raids everytime someone says anything that's not praising GW2.

A HUGE part of D&D is character progressions, that's one of the MAIN activates in RPGs and what keeps people playing, this isnt debatable.

 

EDIT: Raiding isnt the only way to get gear in WoW and other Themeparks btw....just putting that out there lol...but lets turn this away from gear/raid progressions, because thats apparently where you want to steer this in order to get around the no endgame progression in GW2.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2677

5/17/13 9:58:37 AM#50
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by doodphace 

The main purpose of RPGs is to improve your character, make him/her stronger over time. Most Themepark MMOs do this with gear. If ANet can come up with a meaningfull non gear related endgame improvement system, power to them, but until there is some type of character progressions at endgame, its endgame is little more than "Unreal Tournament".

Wrong. That's what games like EQ or WoW have made people believe, but it's wrong.

The main purpose of a RPG is and has always been, since Dungeon and Dragons and Chainmail before, to roleplay a character, explore new places and live adventures with it. It's the EQ/WoW clones which made those games into hamster wheels where the primary purpose is to grind gears.

RPG means "Role Playing Game", and not "Raid Plenty for Gear".

Who said anything about raids? AoC has an alternate endgame progressions system completely independent of gear...you need to calm down and stop bringing up WoW and raids everytime someone says anything that's not praising GW2.

A HUGE part of D&D is character progressions, that's one of the MAIN activates in RPGs and what keeps people playing, this isnt debatable.

It has to be character progression because you wont start shooting fireballs or turning undead.

But on a PC game the progression can be based on the player skill progression not on stats.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4849

5/17/13 9:59:25 AM#51
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Normandy7
You see WoW has an excuse why people have left the old leveling zones, it is an old game. The same with other games but GW2 has no excuse why this happened. GW2 is still very new and yes op the living world in GW2 is pretty much barren for the simple fact that people have already left for good. You will only get a handful of people at best in the lower level areas.

Wrong. I have leveled a new character in GW2 recently, and the starter areas are actually packed at peak hours and still alive with players at off hours. Gandara (EU) server.  And in the higher level areas, each time I announced a group event on map chat, more than enough people showed up to beat the event.

Of course you can't see that when you don't even play the game but just post assumptions about what you believe happens on forums...

I can't say the same about WoW's starter zones or Pandaria zones. The starter zones are empty (except a few kiddies duelling in goldshire with twinks or with high level char against level 5 ones), same for the Pandaria ones, and that was last November, not even 2 months after the release of the expansion.

In every MMO when someone brings up issue of population dwindling on their server someone like you always pops his head out of the bush and says 'but my server is doing great', well good for you but that means nothing because GW2 has a lot more other servers which are not doing so well.

So what i did? i got my 1,800 gems and transferred to Tarnished Coast. Sooner or later ANET will have to suck it up and merge servers. Till then? ignorance is bliss.

Yes, if you're playing on a T3 server or below, populations won't be as heavy.

However T2-T1 (that's 6 servers american + 6 europian) are consistantly populated. I play on Sanctum of Ral and there's always stuff going on. Zones always have people in them, and map chat is always being used by random people I don't know.

I know there are a few servers with lower populations, though, but to imply that it's all of them is a bit of an exaggeration. Furthermore, people need to keep in mind that different servers have different demographics. I.E. Ral does get somewhat slower during oceanic times (though we've made an effort to bring more oceanics over), other servers are the opposite (and this is regardless of if you're playing US or EU).

Another thing to consider is this game has a pretty fluid population. People are leaving / quiting / taking a break, but they also have new people trying the game out all the time. I wouldn't have believed it, but I'm still running into newer players almost daily.

Eventually, yes, the game will die and they may have to merge, but it's too soon to tell, tbh. A lot of it will depend on how long they take to introduce some sort of expansion, and step up some of the content they've laid the groundwork for. The game still gets lagfest-packed with each event they introduce (monthly). The day - day may not be as packed as it used to be, but it's fairly unrealistic to expect that nowadays. People just have too many games to play, and no one plays just one.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

5/17/13 9:59:47 AM#52
Originally posted by doodphace

Who said anything about raids? AoC has an alternate endgame progressions system completely independent of gear...you need to calm down and stop bringing up WoW and raids everytime someone says anything that's not praising GW2.

Gear grinds in general include raids in most WoW clones. Alternate grinds remain... grinds. And I'm very calm, just sort of sad that MMORPGs so badly twisted the prime reason why people used to play those games... and beside that, you do not tell me what I can post or not.

A HUGE part of D&D is character progressions, that's one of the MAIN activates in RPGs and what keeps people playing, this isnt debatable.

D&D was never about gear farming or even leveling at all costs. What keeps people playing is a good GM which makes good scenarios and knows how to tell the story to his players, and good fellow players of course, not levels and shiny trinkets. And that, my friend, any pen and paper players worth his grain of salt will tell you is indeed not debatable.

Hell, in my group, when someone didn't have a high enough character for a campaign, he was just rolling one directly of the right level for the campaign.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

It has to be character progression because you wont start shooting fireballs or turning undead.

But on a PC game the progression can be based on the player skill progression not on stats.

I've played pen and paper RPG which didn't even have character stats.

Character progression can be PART of a RPG, definitely, but it also definitely is NOT the main purpose of that type of games, and has never been.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 3006

5/17/13 9:59:52 AM#53

I have never seen any placeholders in the game but I never played the beta. 

I play on Aurora Glade (EU) and there are plenty of people around. Starting zones are very populated. Mid-level zones - not so much. I have no idea if it's your server cause I've never played there. But I can definitely disprove anyone who claims that Aurora Glade is dead :D

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

5/17/13 10:03:05 AM#54
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Normandy7
You see WoW has an excuse why people have left the old leveling zones, it is an old game. The same with other games but GW2 has no excuse why this happened. GW2 is still very new and yes op the living world in GW2 is pretty much barren for the simple fact that people have already left for good. You will only get a handful of people at best in the lower level areas.

Wrong. I have leveled a new character in GW2 recently, and the starter areas are actually packed at peak hours and still alive with players at off hours. Gandara (EU) server.  And in the higher level areas, each time I announced a group event on map chat, more than enough people showed up to beat the event.

Of course you can't see that when you don't even play the game but just post assumptions about what you believe happens on forums...

I can't say the same about WoW's starter zones or Pandaria zones. The starter zones are empty (except a few kiddies duelling in goldshire with twinks or with high level char against level 5 ones), same for the Pandaria ones, and that was last November, not even 2 months after the release of the expansion.

In every MMO when someone brings up issue of population dwindling on their server someone like you always pops his head out of the bush and says 'but my server is doing great', well good for you but that means nothing because GW2 has a lot more other servers which are not doing so well.

So what i did? i got my 1,800 gems and transferred to Tarnished Coast. Sooner or later ANET will have to suck it up and merge servers. Till then? ignorance is bliss.

Yes, if you're playing on a T3 server or below, populations won't be as heavy.

However T2-T1 (that's 6 servers american + 6 europian) are consistantly populated. I play on Sanctum of Ral and there's always stuff going on. Zones always have people in them, and map chat is always being used by random people I don't know.

I know there are a few servers with lower populations, though, but to imply that it's all of them is a bit of an exaggeration. Furthermore, people need to keep in mind that different servers have different demographics. I.E. Ral does get somewhat slower during oceanic times (though we've made an effort to bring more oceanics over), other servers are the opposite (and this is regardless of if you're playing US or EU).

Another thing to consider is this game has a pretty fluid population. People are leaving / quiting / taking a break, but they also have new people trying the game out all the time. I wouldn't have believed it, but I'm still running into newer players almost daily.

Eventually, yes, the game will die and they may have to merge, but it's too soon to tell, tbh. A lot of it will depend on how long they take to introduce some sort of expansion, and step up some of the content they've laid the groundwork for. The game still gets lagfest-packed with each event they introduce (monthly). The day - day may not be as packed as it used to be, but it's fairly unrealistic to expect that nowadays. People just have too many games to play, and no one plays just one.

I have been through this song and dance of denial and acceptance so many times that it has become almost a cliche. Neither hardcore fan base or the companies want to admit population troubles that is why you would see the name of same 4 or 5 servers being plastered on the wall every time someone wants to point towards the low population. I thought players would learn by now but i see same pattern being followed every single time with every MMO down the lane when population begins to drop. There are a lot of servers which needs a merge. 

I finally decided to leave and join Tarnished Coast and i am sure i am not the only one heading towards the most populated servers because the way GW2 is designed you can not enjoy this game without healthy player base. I just dislike it when people start using their own populated severs as an example to show that all servers of GW2 are doing great. Typical thing to do to undermine the issue.

 

 

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  doodphace

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1719

5/17/13 10:03:46 AM#55
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by doodphace

Who said anything about raids? AoC has an alternate endgame progressions system completely independent of gear...you need to calm down and stop bringing up WoW and raids everytime someone says anything that's not praising GW2.

Gear grinds in general include raids in most WoW clones. Alternate grinds remain... grinds. And I'm very calm, just sort of sad that MMORPGs so badly twisted the prime reason why people used to play those games... and beside that, you do not tell me what I can post or not.

A HUGE part of D&D is character progressions, that's one of the MAIN activates in RPGs and what keeps people playing, this isnt debatable.

D&D was never about gear farming or even leveling at all costs. What keeps people playing is a good GM which makes good scenarios and knows how to tell the story to his players, and good fellow players of course, not levels and shiny trinkets. And that, my friend, any pen and paper players worth his grain of salt will tell you is indeed not debatable.

Who said D&D was about gear farming? I said D&D was about character progression...most RPGS are about charecter progression. AoC was onto something with their alternate advancement system. Thats all im saying...without charecter progression (stop bringing up gear treadmills, im sure ANet can come up with other ways, just like funcom did), GW2 endgame is nothing more than Unreal Torunament.

Are you guys even reading what I am typing? As soon as someon mentiones progression and GW2's lack there of, you guys start spewing buzz words like "gear treadmill, shiny trinket etc tec"...its like if you say those things, its discussion over...not once did I imply GW2 needed raided gear progression.

  doodphace

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1719

5/17/13 10:04:53 AM#56
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by doodphace

Who said anything about raids? AoC has an alternate endgame progressions system completely independent of gear...you need to calm down and stop bringing up WoW and raids everytime someone says anything that's not praising GW2.

Gear grinds in general include raids in most WoW clones. Alternate grinds remain... grinds. And I'm very calm, just sort of sad that MMORPGs so badly twisted the prime reason why people used to play those games... and beside that, you do not tell me what I can post or not.

A HUGE part of D&D is character progressions, that's one of the MAIN activates in RPGs and what keeps people playing, this isnt debatable.

D&D was never about gear farming or even leveling at all costs. What keeps people playing is a good GM which makes good scenarios and knows how to tell the story to his players, and good fellow players of course, not levels and shiny trinkets. And that, my friend, any pen and paper players worth his grain of salt will tell you is indeed not debatable.

Hell, in my group, when someone didn't have a high enough character for a campaign, he was just rolling one directly of the right level for the campaign.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

It has to be character progression because you wont start shooting fireballs or turning undead.

But on a PC game the progression can be based on the player skill progression not on stats.

I've played pen and paper RPG which didn't even have character stats.

Character progression can be PART of a RPG, definitely, but it also definitely is NOT the main purpose of that type of games, and has never been.

Im sure there are many RPGs our there without charecter stats....im obviously not implying that every single RPG ever made is like that.....why are you guys so against prolonging the lifespan of GW2 with endgame alternate advancement?

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

5/17/13 10:05:52 AM#57
Originally posted by Doogiehowser

I have been through this song and dance of denial and acceptance so many times that it has become almost a cliche. Neither hardcore fan base or the companies want to admit population troubles that is why you would see the name of same 4 or 5 servers being plastered on the wall every time someone wants to point towards the low population. I thought players would learn by now but i see same pattern being followed every single time with every MMO down the lane when population begins to drop.

We won't lie just to please people who are only here to spam negativity. Anyone playing the game can guest to Gandara and see that I'm telling the truth, I would be silly to lie about that.

Of course, those who play the forums more than the game may not know it... ;-)

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4849

5/17/13 10:06:38 AM#58
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by doodphace 

The main purpose of RPGs is to improve your character, make him/her stronger over time. Most Themepark MMOs do this with gear. If ANet can come up with a meaningfull non gear related endgame improvement system, power to them, but until there is some type of character progressions at endgame, its endgame is little more than "Unreal Tournament".

Wrong. That's what games like EQ or WoW have made people believe, but it's wrong.

The main purpose of a RPG is and has always been, since Dungeon and Dragons and Chainmail before, to roleplay a character, explore new places and live adventures with it. It's the EQ/WoW clones which made those games into hamster wheels where the primary purpose is to grind gears.

RPG means "Role Playing Game", and not "Raid Plenty for Gear".

Who said anything about raids? AoC has an alternate endgame progressions system completely independent of gear...you need to calm down and stop bringing up WoW and raids everytime someone says anything that's not praising GW2.

A HUGE part of D&D is character progressions, that's one of the MAIN activates in RPGs and what keeps people playing, this isnt debatable.

It has to be character progression because you wont start shooting fireballs or turning undead.

But on a PC game the progression can be based on the player skill progression not on stats.

It still amazes me how stuck people are on linear progression. We have so many games (RPGs even) that offer progression in alternate ways, that are awesome. And yet most of us still can't get over that gear carrot. Hell, some of the funnest parts of games like Zelda, Guild Wars, Metroid, etc. was getting a variety of different skills to unlock different areas or make bosses easier. I'm actually glad that we are starting to see more MMORPGs try and do the same.

It does require more thought, rather then having the game just tell you 'this is better, enjoy it', but it also leads to a much more fulfilling character. Eve is another good example of this, where you start off only being mediocre in one area, and then grow to become efficient in multiple.

I know I'm probably in the minority on this, but I find linear progression to be a very shallow cop-out when it comes to progression.

  doodphace

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1719

5/17/13 10:07:14 AM#59
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by doodphace 

The main purpose of RPGs is to improve your character, make him/her stronger over time. Most Themepark MMOs do this with gear. If ANet can come up with a meaningfull non gear related endgame improvement system, power to them, but until there is some type of character progressions at endgame, its endgame is little more than "Unreal Tournament".

Wrong. That's what games like EQ or WoW have made people believe, but it's wrong.

The main purpose of a RPG is and has always been, since Dungeon and Dragons and Chainmail before, to roleplay a character, explore new places and live adventures with it. It's the EQ/WoW clones which made those games into hamster wheels where the primary purpose is to grind gears.

RPG means "Role Playing Game", and not "Raid Plenty for Gear".

Who said anything about raids? AoC has an alternate endgame progressions system completely independent of gear...you need to calm down and stop bringing up WoW and raids everytime someone says anything that's not praising GW2.

A HUGE part of D&D is character progressions, that's one of the MAIN activates in RPGs and what keeps people playing, this isnt debatable.

It has to be character progression because you wont start shooting fireballs or turning undead.

But on a PC game the progression can be based on the player skill progression not on stats.

It still amazes me how stuck people are on linear progression. We have so many games (RPGs even) that offer progression in alternate ways, that are awesome. And yet most of us still can't get over that gear carrot. Hell, some of the funnest parts of games like Zelda, Guild Wars, Metroid, etc. was getting a variety of different skills to unlock different areas or make bosses easier. I'm actually glad that we are starting to see more MMORPGs try and do the same.

It does require more thought, rather then having the game just tell you 'this is better, enjoy it', but it also leads to a much more fulfilling character. Eve is another good example of this, where you start off only being mediocre in one area, and then grow to become efficient in multiple.

I know I'm probably in the minority on this, but I find linear progression to be a very shallow cop-out when it comes to progression.

^This

Unless GW2 has any type of progressions at endgame, its little more than "Unreal Torunament". You can say that progression comes from improvement of skill, and while true, also applies to unreal tournament.

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

5/17/13 10:08:40 AM#60
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Doogiehowser

I have been through this song and dance of denial and acceptance so many times that it has become almost a cliche. Neither hardcore fan base or the companies want to admit population troubles that is why you would see the name of same 4 or 5 servers being plastered on the wall every time someone wants to point towards the low population. I thought players would learn by now but i see same pattern being followed every single time with every MMO down the lane when population begins to drop.

We won't lie just to please people who are only here to spam negativity. Anyone playing the game can guest to Gandara and see that I'm telling the truth, I would be silly to lie about that.

Of course, those who play the forums more than the game may not know it... ;-)

But the issue that is being discussed here is not about Gandara or Tarnished coast or other handful of heavily populated but all other servers where players are struggling or just causing more imbalance by moving to these already packed servers.

Unless you think Gandara = entire GW2 population.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

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