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Lord of the Rings Online

Lord of the Rings Online 

General Discussion  » Slot Machines in Middle Earth? A new low in MMORPGs...

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40 posts found
  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2707

There... are... four... lights!

5/16/13 5:37:07 AM#21

The worst aspect of them is that they are not even integrated in the game. You don't talk to a NPC or interact with something in game, you just click a notification icon and there comes a slot machine like UI popping out of no where, and then the "rewards" pop in your inventory also out of the blues. They didn't even make the effort to hide their money grabber a bit, try to make it part of the game. They just added a crappy "facebook quality" slot machine game.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1814

"I shall take your position into consideration"

5/16/13 5:41:01 AM#22

MMOs / MMORPGs are created with only one purpose...to generate profit.

Maybe it is one of the reasons why I prefer P2P games. You subscribe, the subs is automatically charged from your account every month and the whole business aspect of the game is more or less subtle. I also do not mind WoW's cash shop which is completely separated from the game.

In F2P games, the cash shop is omnipresent. I know it sounds like cliche, but it breaks immersion. Whether it is a huge button "Buy coins" or slot machines like you mention in the OP does not matter. It simply does not belong here.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2707

There... are... four... lights!

5/16/13 5:51:29 AM#23
Originally posted by coretex666

MMOs / MMORPGs are created with only one purpose...to generate profit.

Maybe it is one of the reasons why I prefer P2P games. You subscribe, the subs is automatically charged from your account every month and the whole business aspect of the game is more or less subtle. I also do not mind WoW's cash shop which is completely separated from the game.

In F2P games, the cash shop is omnipresent. I know it sounds like cliche, but it breaks immersion. Whether it is a huge button "Buy coins" or slot machines like you mention in the OP does not matter. It simply does not belong here.

The LOTRO cash shop is a quite bad one indeed, with not only that optional gambling aspect but also many "pay to win" elements. Another pretty nasty one is the Neverwinter one.

GW2 got the balance right I think. You don't need to use the shop at all if you don't want to, I have guildies who never bought a cent past the initial box price and who play just fine converting in game gold to gems, and people like me have to option to buy some to support a game they enjoy.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/16/13 5:55:23 AM#24
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by InsaneDalek

I still don't understand how companies which do things like this can get around the rules & regulations regarding gambling. Perhaps it's because you technically can't 'lose', since no matter what you receive something, even if the quality and / or usefulness of what you receive is low. That's about the only way I can think of.

There is no monetary value to the items you gain. A game of chance with no monetary value to the prize is not considered gambling as far as most laws are concerned. To be clear, I'm not saying it's right or wrong to have it in the game, and I'm not saying it's good or bad to have it in the game. I'm just explaining to you why it isn't considered gambling and thus not illegal to have. 

Old Ladies Weekly Bingo Game, a fine American tradition.

There aren't many states left that still stand firmly against gambling. They just tax, regulate, and control it. The Bread and Circuses that Americans seem to want, it can't really be so surprising or morally outrageous in video games. The Lottery Line forms at my local gas station every Weds and Sat.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1814

"I shall take your position into consideration"

5/16/13 6:00:50 AM#25
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by coretex666

MMOs / MMORPGs are created with only one purpose...to generate profit.

Maybe it is one of the reasons why I prefer P2P games. You subscribe, the subs is automatically charged from your account every month and the whole business aspect of the game is more or less subtle. I also do not mind WoW's cash shop which is completely separated from the game.

In F2P games, the cash shop is omnipresent. I know it sounds like cliche, but it breaks immersion. Whether it is a huge button "Buy coins" or slot machines like you mention in the OP does not matter. It simply does not belong here.

The LOTRO cash shop is a quite bad one indeed, with not only that optional gambling aspect but also many "pay to win" elements. Another pretty nasty one is the Neverwinter one.

GW2 got the balance right I think. You don't need to use the shop at all if you don't want to, I have guildies who never bought a cent past the initial box price and who play just fine converting in game gold to gems, and people like me have to option to buy some to support a game they enjoy.

It was probably overgeneralization on my side. I realize there are F2P games whose cash shops are ok.

I would change the wording to "In most F2P games, the cash shop...."

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  MMOGamer71

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1516

5/17/13 11:16:38 PM#26
Rift App has "scratch off" tickets.
  Magiknight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 735

5/18/13 10:44:29 PM#27
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by InsaneDalek

I still don't understand how companies which do things like this can get around the rules & regulations regarding gambling. Perhaps it's because you technically can't 'lose', since no matter what you receive something, even if the quality and / or usefulness of what you receive is low. That's about the only way I can think of.

There is no monetary value to the items you gain. A game of chance with no monetary value to the prize is not considered gambling as far as most laws are concerned. To be clear, I'm not saying it's right or wrong to have it in the game, and I'm not saying it's good or bad to have it in the game. I'm just explaining to you why it isn't considered gambling and thus not illegal to have. 

Old Ladies Weekly Bingo Game, a fine American tradition.

There aren't many states left that still stand firmly against gambling. They just tax, regulate, and control it. The Bread and Circuses that Americans seem to want, it can't really be so surprising or morally outrageous in video games. The Lottery Line forms at my local gas station every Weds and Sat.

Only Hawaii and Utah still oppose it. I will repeat, I hate the corrupt gambling industry.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5639

5/19/13 12:39:24 AM#28
Originally posted by MMOGamer1971
Rift App has "scratch off" tickets.

That mobile game is fun.  Turbine should have done something like that or like someone said, made it an npc in Bree and other hubs.  The idea isn't that bad, but Turbine implemented it in the dorkiest most jarring possible manner.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  jesteralways

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/13
Posts: 530

5/19/13 12:56:46 AM#29
How could publishers include gambling in online games in the 1st place? publishers call it RNG, yes it is RNG and gambling is also RNG. anything that is generated randomly is pure luck, no exception. i had developed simple gambling game for my project purpose in university and even though i wrote the code myself i could never tell which number(read card) it would generate next, it is purely luck. when you go to a casino you pay real money to buy chips to gamble, in online games we buy store credits with real money and then gamble. you may say in casino you will lose all of your money  but in game you at least get something so it is not gambling, well in casino you get free drinks; when we open a "random loot box" 99% time players get pots(free drinks), there is no difference here. how can game companies include gambling like this? do they have gambling license? if they don't have gambling license why aren't authority doing anything?

No panties, No Life

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15502

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/19/13 1:03:13 AM#30
Originally posted by jesteralways
How could publishers include gambling in online games in the 1st place? publishers call it RNG, yes it is RNG and gambling is also RNG. anything that is generated randomly is pure luck, no exception. i had developed simple gambling game for my project purpose in university and even though i wrote the code myself i could never tell which number(read card) it would generate next, it is purely luck. when you go to a casino you pay real money to buy chips to gamble, in online games we buy store credits with real money and then gamble. you may say in casino you will lose all of your money  but in game you at least get something so it is not gambling, well in casino you get free drinks; when we open a "random loot box" 99% time players get pots(free drinks), there is no difference here. how can game companies include gambling like this? do they have gambling license? if they don't have gambling license why aren't authority doing anything?

The only thing the Government would do about it is force the companies into a position of vying to make more money than they're paying out to said legislation.

Edit- in other words, we the consumer would be no better off.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1990

5/19/13 1:05:33 AM#31
Originally posted by Torvaldr

Turbine should have done something like that or like someone said, made it an npc in Bree and other hubs.  The idea isn't that bad, but Turbine implemented it in the dorkiest most jarring possible manner.

Why Bree? Shire, Party Tree, where the hobbit food race is happening during the festival :)

Turbine could've put a birthday party in the middle of the course, that's an unused area anyway, which party is going on 24/7 (since there's a hobbit birthday every day indeed), and players who cheer the birthday hobbit (it could even rotate every day to a different npc among the party-goers) could take a present from the heap for him/herself.

(not my idea, Cryptic does that all the time, in STO obviously Q giving out presents, in CO there was a huge christmas tree in the middle of Millennium City and everybody could take a box every day from under it)

 

Or if they insist to the slotmachine look, at least give us a switch-off option, I've never used the lotteries either and I don't like the announcement icon pop up every login...

 

Edit: but ofc they won't do it, since it's not about immersion or giving out freebies, it's only about mithril coins sadly, and its effectiveness requires to shove it into everybody's faces at login.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

5/19/13 1:07:36 AM#32
Originally posted by Gravarg
If they got rid of gambling in games they would be boring.  You wouldn't have loot tables.  Mobs would drop the same item(s) everytime.

Silly response, your analogy is a massive generalization of gaming systems.  Killing mobs is not a micro transaction cash shop item.

Here let me play along with you since you like derailing threads, when I get out of bed in the morning I am gambling with my life by driving to work.  Or going to a movie theater is gambling because I might get a bad seat.

There you got some attention.

 

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15502

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

5/19/13 1:09:32 AM#33
Originally posted by Gravarg
If they got rid of gambling in games they would be boring.  You wouldn't have loot tables.  Mobs would drop the same item(s) everytime.

WTF?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Thenextbigthing

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/02/12
Posts: 113

5/20/13 2:06:13 PM#34
Originally posted by trancejeremy

Now when you log in, you are presented with "free" hobbit presents, which are essentially a spin on a slot machine (or perhaps more accurately, a Wheel of Fortune).

 

Want more spins? Pony up money via purchasing Mithril Coins.

 

I thought gambling boxes were bad, but this, this is a new low. You can't escape them. And oh, you say, just use willpower to avoid them. Well, yeah, many people can. But let's not pretend that there isn't a brain chemistry reason that gambling is exciting and that many aren't able to cope with it well.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_dysregulation_syndrome

 

 

Don't be stupid, it's a random free gift daily, not on every log in. I never even thought of it as a slot machine until you suggested it. It isn't part of the game world. They are just trying to give you a reward for using the game daily.

 

It's typical of your posts on this forum to make lotro sound far worse than it is. Pathetic to be honest. Do you just log in occasionally to see what else you can have a moan about?

 

Also have you never rolled for loot drops in dungeons or in groups? If you have, then you are a hypocrit OP.

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 4012

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

5/20/13 3:00:40 PM#35
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by MMOGamer1971
Rift App has "scratch off" tickets.

That mobile game is fun.  Turbine should have done something like that or like someone said, made it an npc in Bree and other hubs.  The idea isn't that bad, but Turbine implemented it in the dorkiest most jarring possible manner.

I agree with this.  I don't have much of an issue with the concept itself, but it would have been much better as a phone app, or just put it in the browser like the lotteries they already have.

EA does the "free prize, but you can buy extra pulls" concept for their Simpsons phone game, too.  It's not a new concept in the world of free games, and morality wise, I think it's a step or 2 up from the chests that only open with keys you buy from the store(I think nearly every F2P has this right now).

For those that struggle with gambling addiction, I can understand their being upset, though.  There's no denying that it appeals to that impulse.    Certainly the "boxes/store keys" appeal to this, not even having a free pull.  But as others have said, raiding has that appeal as well; it just doesn't let you buy extra "pulls".

For me, I've only profited.  I only do the free pull, and have gotten a number of consumables, as well as a Universal Crafting kit which costs about 160TP (about $1.40-2.20 depending on how you buy points). 

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3728

RIP City of Heroes!

5/20/13 3:16:38 PM#36
Originally posted by jesteralways
How could publishers include gambling in online games in the 1st place? publishers call it RNG, yes it is RNG and gambling is also RNG. anything that is generated randomly is pure luck, no exception. i had developed simple gambling game for my project purpose in university and even though i wrote the code myself i could never tell which number(read card) it would generate next, it is purely luck. when you go to a casino you pay real money to buy chips to gamble, in online games we buy store credits with real money and then gamble. you may say in casino you will lose all of your money  but in game you at least get something so it is not gambling, well in casino you get free drinks; when we open a "random loot box" 99% time players get pots(free drinks), there is no difference here. how can game companies include gambling like this? do they have gambling license? if they don't have gambling license why aren't authority doing anything?

 I love this thinking:  "publishers call it RNG, yes it is RNG and gambling is also RNG."

So all red apples are red and all red cars are red, therefore all red cars are apples............................

j/k

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 4012

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

5/20/13 3:51:59 PM#37
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by jesteralways
How could publishers include gambling in online games in the 1st place? publishers call it RNG, yes it is RNG and gambling is also RNG. anything that is generated randomly is pure luck, no exception. i had developed simple gambling game for my project purpose in university and even though i wrote the code myself i could never tell which number(read card) it would generate next, it is purely luck. when you go to a casino you pay real money to buy chips to gamble, in online games we buy store credits with real money and then gamble. you may say in casino you will lose all of your money  but in game you at least get something so it is not gambling, well in casino you get free drinks; when we open a "random loot box" 99% time players get pots(free drinks), there is no difference here. how can game companies include gambling like this? do they have gambling license? if they don't have gambling license why aren't authority doing anything?

 I love this thinking:  "publishers call it RNG, yes it is RNG and gambling is also RNG."

So all red apples are red and all red cars are red, therefore all red cars are apples............................

j/k

I guess it firstly comes down to whether something can be called gambling if you don't lose anything.  IE, the free pull. 

I think most would say it isn't.  Would anyone argue that poker for chips just to keep score is gambling?  I don't think so.  Now imagine playing poker for no money and still getting something for it.  This is the LOTRO HP model if you don't buy more "lever pulls".

But then, you have to ask if you are gambling when you're guaranteed to win something that costs more than what you spent for the extra pull.  I think this is arguable either way. 

  User Deleted
5/20/13 9:35:09 PM#38
Originally posted by Magiknight
[mod edit]. Gambling is going to be in every video game soon enough. Gambling will provide nothing for the players but it will rob them.

It's already in GW2 everything is RNG, and their answer to people complaining about RNG and the new boxes is more RNG but paid for by their new currency, Laurels. It's really bad over there simply because all of their loot works on this broken principle.

 

  Pie_Rat

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/05
Posts: 287

5/20/13 9:59:07 PM#39
Originally posted by theAsna

 I have played 30 year old single player CRPGs that had gambling integrated. You could play black jack and other mini-games. But you would only bet in-game money. That was a nice little addition. Similar to Pazaak in Kotor.

Questron (SSI 1984) had gambling with in game currency, I can confirm that much. But this is something else entirely...almost as lame as D3's real money AH.

I wonder when all these crooks are going to become aware of their own stench.

  HabitualFrogStomp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 220

6/22/13 10:14:24 AM#40

It seems a lot of people don't realize that casinos WILL give you free money to gamble with. In the past I've received offers from casinos to spend a free night and give me $50 free credit to gamble with, its a pretty common marketing ploy. And its not different in its concept to what LOTRO has now. What is different, and why LOTRO is most definitely not gambling is because you will always win something, regardless of how useful it might be. Of course, you could argue that its still gambling but its pointless, it doesn't meet the textbook (and as far as I'm concerned legal definition) of gambling so its a pointless exercise. \

If you could prove in court that in game items have value and hence you are in effect paying to gamble for a prize, you would also be proving that the so called useless items would also hold value, removing any semblance of gambling from the equation.

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