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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Temporary Content and where ANet got it all wrong.

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65 posts found
  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3481

5/15/13 5:13:52 AM#41

I don't know how it works for other players, but for me temporary content is just annoying. Most of the time I end up simply ignoring it, because I don't like how it creates this rush to complete that content. And that I need to play this weekend or I'll miss it etc. So nowadays I just skip the temporary content in games.

The only exception to this are holiday themed events. Although in GW2 I started to ignore those too thanks to the stupid player culling in cities.

  kabitoshin

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 699

5/15/13 5:28:01 AM#42
Originally posted by someforumguy

I don't know how it works for other players, but for me temporary content is just annoying. Most of the time I end up simply ignoring it, because I don't like how it creates this rush to complete that content. And that I need to play this weekend or I'll miss it etc. So nowadays I just skip the temporary content in games.

The only exception to this are holiday themed events. Although in GW2 I started to ignore those too thanks to the stupid player culling in cities.

I don't see how you feel rushed the first part of the living story lasted 3 months. Instead of releasing new raid content, they create something in the world for you to do, and limited so that you'll want to do it for cool items.

  1vald2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/12
Posts: 75

5/15/13 5:34:16 AM#43
Originally posted by IPolygon
whoop de doo

Sorry to disappoint you mate but it seems like you are slowly starting to dislike a game, like I did. After the initial fun you will see the game's faults and then it is for you to decide whether there are enough good things to balance out the things YOU don't like anymore. It happened to me, so I quit GW2. Either you try and ignore (or accept) these things as part of the game or it's time to move on. 

There are lots of other games to look forward to! :)

  User Deleted
5/15/13 5:36:41 AM#44

Yeah not really interested in temporary content. Seems like a wasted opportunity. 

Could have been effort spent on new fractals, dungeons or battlegrounds. I know they are different teams, but the resources could have been better spent.

I have currently seen all I need to see from GW2. Aside from the odd PvP match, theres really no reason for me to go back and visit, and the Southsun content doesnt really call out to me either.

I will probably go back if they add a new continent (Cantha or Elona), as the leveling was enjoyable, but it doesnt really have the same appeal at endgame as GW1 had for me. Basically they need a dungeon revamp and more battleground / arena modes.  Also more character customisation. 1 set of skills per weapon is not enough. I was hoping an expansion would have fixed that, but that is apparently on ice.  The new skills in the GW1 expansions kept the game fresh. They need that.

I think they just focused on all the wrong things. Only thing that has gotten decent love is WvW.

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3545

5/15/13 5:40:22 AM#45

The investor call showed that NCSoft's prediction wasn't met when it came to GW2.

Previously the GW2 Cash Shop was predicted to provide income to offset the lack of subs and with the constant temporary contents, you'd get players keep on coming back (and hopefully use the Cash shop).

It was actually a really well thought-out strategy.

This prediction turned out to be horribly off as GW2's revenue fell through the floor (less than half from before in 3 months).

It just shows that you need that 'Free' bit to get constant new players into the game so they'd use the CS.

If you get repeated players due to the '$60 box price', they generally won't use the CS.

A new player is much more likely to use the CS than a returning player.

More pressure on ANet to get GW2 Exp out earlier (mid term) and more things in the CS like unique cosmetic items (Short term) seems like reasonable next steps.

 

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2589

5/15/13 6:11:22 AM#46
Originally posted by jpnz

The investor call showed that NCSoft's prediction wasn't met when it came to GW2.

Previously the GW2 Cash Shop was predicted to provide income to offset the lack of subs and with the constant temporary contents, you'd get players keep on coming back (and hopefully use the Cash shop).

It was actually a really well thought-out strategy.

This prediction turned out to be horribly off as GW2's revenue fell through the floor (less than half from before in 3 months).

It just shows that you need that 'Free' bit to get constant new players into the game so they'd use the CS.

If you get repeated players due to the '$60 box price', they generally won't use the CS.

A new player is much more likely to use the CS than a returning player.

More pressure on ANet to get GW2 Exp out earlier (mid term) and more things in the CS like unique cosmetic items (Short term) seems like reasonable next steps.

 

How did it show that?

Where there projections for it?

The last 3 months had around 2.5 Million boxes in it.

The game made another $35M and most of it had to come from the CS unless they sold another 500k-1M boxes.

What they need to add to the cash shop is stuff that players with multiple characters would want and not stuff that caters for the people with a single character.

And in my personal opinion they really need to get expansions rolling.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3481

5/15/13 6:55:09 AM#47
Originally posted by kabitoshin
Originally posted by someforumguy

I don't know how it works for other players, but for me temporary content is just annoying. Most of the time I end up simply ignoring it, because I don't like how it creates this rush to complete that content. And that I need to play this weekend or I'll miss it etc. So nowadays I just skip the temporary content in games.

The only exception to this are holiday themed events. Although in GW2 I started to ignore those too thanks to the stupid player culling in cities.

I don't see how you feel rushed the first part of the living story lasted 3 months. Instead of releasing new raid content, they create something in the world for you to do, and limited so that you'll want to do it for cool items.

Rushed was the wrong translation, it is more about feeling pressured to play. And the limited time and cool items are the reason for that. I don't play games like that. I don't play a game because I might otherwise miss certain cool items. So for my playing style, temporary content is wasted if I don't have the time or if I play temporarily a different game. I rather see them using that dev time for permanent content/features.

You don't have to agree with this, this is also why I wrote that this is how it works for ME.

  QSatu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 1765

5/15/13 7:05:09 AM#48

I think they are doing temporary content for 3 main reasons.

1. to make the world feel alive and changing.

2. To make people spend more money at cash shop. With each update they put some temporary items in cash shop and people are more willing to buy them if they know they are timed.

3. It makes the community revisit specific regions of the world so those areas feel busy and full of life. It also makes e.g. a temporary dungeon the main content for some time so it's easy to find party to do it.

 

 

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2675

5/15/13 7:32:03 AM#49
Originally posted by Tierless

 


Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Tierless I'd rather have consequences than instances. True open world PVP would be nice too.
A.Net already stated, NO OPEN WORLD PvP. I don't get that people always bring it up. GW2 was designed NOT to have that option.

 

Life lesson here, nothin is forever, especially in MMOs. MMOs are alive, they evolve, they change over time. If Anet saw a market for it, if enough requested it, and if they had a good idea on how to implement it, anything, even something as "crazy" as meaningful pvp is suddenly on the table.

Open world  pvp is meaningful to you. I don't find it meaningful. There is a lot less skill required in open world pvp and it not so competitive. For me those things make a pvp experience meaningful and arenanet seem to be on the same page as me.

I don't agree with this idea of temporary content. What pisses me off is the timescales Arenanet is forcing on us. I mean we had 2-3 months to repair sign posts but only like 10 days to do a dungeon. How does that make sense? What pissed me off even more is the Rallying Flame Achievement. They released it on 12 May and they removed it on the 14th even they SAID it was going to be up till the 16th. Not everyone has the time to check the game daily. I really feel super forced to play the game especially at the moment even though I don't have time. I am not going to play anyway cause I can't but I am pissed off that I am missing out on content. ARenanet told us that they would not force you into certain playstyles but they sure are forcing us to play this new content which lasts for like a week now.

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

5/15/13 8:03:47 AM#50
Originally posted by IPolygon
I still haven't heard a valid reason why living story cannot be incorporated into the persistent world we got.

 

It actually is. Do you see those settlements and changes on SouthSun? Those are permanent. A lot of this will be permanent with some temporary added to it. In addition, this is leading up to something called the Dragon Bash festival which will be an annual holiday type event. Some things come, some things go, some things stay behind. Some stay the same, some are changed forever. That's the concept of their living world.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  MadDemon64

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1071

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

5/15/13 9:09:03 AM#51
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by IPolygon
I still haven't heard a valid reason why living story cannot be incorporated into the persistent world we got.

 

It actually is. Do you see those settlements and changes on SouthSun? Those are permanent. A lot of this will be permanent with some temporary added to it. In addition, this is leading up to something called the Dragon Bash festival which will be an annual holiday type event. Some things come, some things go, some things stay behind. Some stay the same, some are changed forever. That's the concept of their living world.

Exactly.  The damage from the Molten Alliance will persist, but you can't exactly keep fighting them in their dungeon after they are defeated.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

5/15/13 10:44:33 AM#52
Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by IPolygon
I still haven't heard a valid reason why living story cannot be incorporated into the persistent world we got.

 

It actually is. Do you see those settlements and changes on SouthSun? Those are permanent. A lot of this will be permanent with some temporary added to it. In addition, this is leading up to something called the Dragon Bash festival which will be an annual holiday type event. Some things come, some things go, some things stay behind. Some stay the same, some are changed forever. That's the concept of their living world.

Exactly.  The damage from the Molten Alliance will persist, but you can't exactly keep fighting them in their dungeon after they are defeated.

 

They are hinting that this could come back as a Fractal though, which would be pretty cool imo.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  MadDemon64

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1071

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

5/15/13 2:14:42 PM#53
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by MadDemon64
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by IPolygon
I still haven't heard a valid reason why living story cannot be incorporated into the persistent world we got.

 

It actually is. Do you see those settlements and changes on SouthSun? Those are permanent. A lot of this will be permanent with some temporary added to it. In addition, this is leading up to something called the Dragon Bash festival which will be an annual holiday type event. Some things come, some things go, some things stay behind. Some stay the same, some are changed forever. That's the concept of their living world.

Exactly.  The damage from the Molten Alliance will persist, but you can't exactly keep fighting them in their dungeon after they are defeated.

 

They are hinting that this could come back as a Fractal though, which would be pretty cool imo.

Certainly sounds cool.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  Homitu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2039

5/15/13 10:22:49 PM#54
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Ayulin
And anyway, arguing who did it first is missing the point.

If it weren't important then why did you include it as part of the great tirade against why these things are TERRIBLE!!! 

Yeah, the person you're responding to here isn't the OP...  Since he/she hasn't been back to give you the whole "wtf are you talking about?" reaction, I figured I'd point it out.  

  Destai

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/31/09
Posts: 487

5/15/13 10:32:25 PM#55

I'm not against having episodic content, per se. I'm against having it be in place of permanent content. Whether ArenaNet wants to admit it or not, we need more than 8 dungeons. We need more than fractals. We need 12, 16 man dungeon/raids. Just something. And it's not there. It saddens that they release such good content, like the Super Adventure Box, and then just take it away. What's the point in that?

It is nice to see them breathing some life into lower level zones. However, some of the mid 30 - 40 zones could use some love. Those are some awesome zones, like Timberline Falls. It's nice that they're adding content to Southsun Cove, but it's not enough. This game is horribly shallow compared to more traditional MMOs. 

The game needs more of the following:

1. Dungeons. One for each zone, telling the overall story for that zone. Well, each zone besides Arah. 

2. More skills. It's a common complaint that you get all your skills early on. I don't feel like my character grows any. So many mechanics are orphaned in this game. The personal story, the personality measurements, the journal - it's all done or pointless. 

3. Mini-games in each city. I want a reason to go the pubs in each city. Fable had a great thing going with their mini games. I'm sure the talent ArenaNet has could think of something more than crab toss, especially after how awesome SAB was. 

The thing about this game is that is so young yet. So much is yet to come, but I don't feel ArenaNet has decided on their direction yet. That worries me. It's evident they're having an identity crisis right now, and the game will suffer as a result. 

Current MMOs: Wildstar, Guild Wars 2, the Secret World, World of Warcraft

Past Loves: Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Everquest

  Thupli

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 404

5/15/13 10:35:01 PM#56
Originally posted by IPolygon
I still haven't heard a valid reason why living story cannot be incorporated into the persistent world we got.

I think a valid reason would be that the threat is taken care of and has been brought to completion.

 

I love that it is there then gone.  It creates good memories.  For those that missed it, never fear, for new stuff is coming down the pipe.  News flash: you don't have to experience every part of a game to enjoy it!  I'm only at 55% map completion and that doesn't stop me from liking what I have gotten to experience.

  User Deleted
5/15/13 10:38:31 PM#57

I think they'll find this sort of approach isn't sustainable.  Unless they have some kind of in-house dungeon generator thing going on, it's usually not worth putting effort into parts of a game that few people will get to experience, either because they weren't around at the time, or weren't the right level, or were out of town, or whatever.

WoW went through this a bit with their raids.  They were spending 90% of their development time on creating new raids, yet only about 10% of the playerbase ever set foot in anything past Molten Core (the entry level raid).  Eventually, this transitioned into the 10 and 20 man raid options, first in ZG during Vanilla, then in Kara during TBC.  Long story short: they realized that it's more effective to work on stuff that will get used.

  Lakytus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/07/04
Posts: 55

5/15/13 10:48:43 PM#58

I don't see why they can't have both. The way they did Southsun Cove is the way they should do most of these update; a big onetime event that adds something to the game permanently. Then keep their holiday themed events. Adding a dungeon for 2 weeks is a waste of time since it can never be that great, because there is no reason to put a lot of work into something that is disappearing.

The world does not feel dynamic and ever changing since if I miss 2 weeks, I miss the event and the game is the same as the way it was before. If most of it stays, but I miss the big boss battle, like the giant Karka, then it fulfills both types of players.

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3545

5/16/13 3:32:39 AM#59
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
 

How did it show that?

Where there projections for it?

The last 3 months had around 2.5 Million boxes in it.

The game made another $35M and most of it had to come from the CS unless they sold another 500k-1M boxes.

What they need to add to the cash shop is stuff that players with multiple characters would want and not stuff that caters for the people with a single character.

And in my personal opinion they really need to get expansions rolling.

 

The investor call before this one (2 months after GW2 Launched I think) NCSoft was predicting 'robust CS sale which will continue into the next quarter and continue to grow in revenue'.

Well, GW2 revenue tanked HARD; 48% to 21% is not stellar.

GW2 made millions and was a very profitable game. But according to this call, it isn't 'profitable enough'.

No, that isn't a 'GW2 is dying LOL!!1111' statement, but it is acknowledging that 'hey, stuff might change soon'.

Pretty confident we'll see something at E3 or one of those 'cons' shortly after E3 about GW2 expansion pack.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2589

5/16/13 3:47:39 AM#60
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
 

How did it show that?

Where there projections for it?

The last 3 months had around 2.5 Million boxes in it.

The game made another $35M and most of it had to come from the CS unless they sold another 500k-1M boxes.

What they need to add to the cash shop is stuff that players with multiple characters would want and not stuff that caters for the people with a single character.

And in my personal opinion they really need to get expansions rolling.

 

The investor call before this one (2 months after GW2 Launched I think) NCSoft was predicting 'robust CS sale which will continue into the next quarter and continue to grow in revenue'.

Well, GW2 revenue tanked HARD; 48% to 21% is not stellar.

GW2 made millions and was a very profitable game. But according to this call, it isn't 'profitable enough'.

No, that isn't a 'GW2 is dying LOL!!1111' statement, but it is acknowledging that 'hey, stuff might change soon'.

Pretty confident we'll see something at E3 or one of those 'cons' shortly after E3 about GW2 expansion pack.

The last investor call was in February. There was one before in November.

I've listened to the last call and this call and in both they expected lower revenue from GW2 as less boxes would be moved, especially since 4Q12 had the lionshare of the sales of 3Q12 as well. 48% to 21% is simply the contribution of GW2 to the total revenue of NCSoft.

Again nowhere they said it wasn't profitable enough.

NCSoft both in last call and this call talked about an expansion and release in China - in last call they said they expected an expansion to be released in 2013, now they didn't give any time window.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

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