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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Promoting RP is Good for Community

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49 posts found
  XilentStorm

Novice Member

Joined: 3/11/10
Posts: 206

Games are epic.

5/14/13 12:07:21 PM#21
Originally posted by Eladi

PS: my personal RP benchmark.. if I cant sit on a damn chair the developer placed in the world then the game was not and will never become a long term RP game.  It will be a used car  I will drive it but only until i find better. 

Sort of like APB, APB has a lot of elements, while also lacking so many. :/

Veteran MMORPG Player -

ROM
EVE
RS (pre-EOC)- Habbo
Combat Arms - Crossfire -AVA
Maplestory, and more.

  aspekx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2151

5/15/13 5:17:08 AM#22

"but the value to having populated servers with engaged, returning players, is something that shouldn’t be underestimated."

 

that above statement you make i think is key. and overlooked almost every time.

i would go so far as to argue that the whole 'sandbox' debate is really about that statement.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  Terranah

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3612

5/15/13 8:58:27 AM#23

Thanks for the article.

 

I'm what might be called a light RP'er.  I like to play my character.  I liken it to acting.  But there are times I have to leave character for various reasons and I'm okay with that. 

 

I tend to choose RP servers almost exclusively, but even still I think there are a lot of people who don't understand role play.  I suspect they have a very low creative intelligence or just a very sad child hood that didn't allow them to explore their creativity.  What is especially frustrating is when you get attitude from people and I have to say, 'Hey, this is an RP server.'  I would never go to a pvp server for instance and complain I don't like pvp. 

 

I used to rp 100% in SWG.  I agree that games placed in settings we are familiar with are more conducive to rp.  Sometimes in fantasy games where I don't know the backstory I feel a little shy about rp because I don't want to contradict lore.  But I also feel that even in real life there are people with a more micro view of the world and so that is how I play my character, more concerned with family and local events than broad over reaching arcs.

 

 

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5140

5/15/13 9:32:55 AM#24

"MMO tourism” is where we are today. The problem with the statement "Promoting RP is Good for the Community" is I am not certain that designers care about community much anymore. Even if they do the history of MMO players; roleplayers, hardcore, console and social media types has left us with no community. These disparate groups do not pull together and at best stay in their own world within the MMO. At worse they won't even fraternise with their own group and just go solo.

Oh and never be worried about contradicting lore, you can always retrofit and come up with something that does fit. If you think 'that's what I typed and now can never unsay it." then you have roleplaying in MMOs all wrong. The harsh nature of typing and everyone seeing means we have to allow for a bit of stage craft, the ability to take back or alter what we said.

  Konfess

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/07
Posts: 695

5/15/13 2:50:34 PM#25

I was so happy to see Images of MxO again (Vixens).  I luved that game and left EQ1&2, SWG and WoW for it.  I’m a Social/Explorer, and was disappointed to see MxO’s clubs deserted and that stupid telephone box made into a social hub.  Then I tried SWTOR and again I see it done.  A large Cantina was made in the first questing zone of Corellia, but did players use it?  No, they crammed into the hole in the wall cantina, in the trade district at the base of the Senate.

How would I support RP?  Create a large indoor multi room space.  Have it near banking, relevant economy(trade and crafting), and communications/distribution(mail).

Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.

  kriminal66

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 76

5/15/13 3:10:13 PM#26
Christina i would love to role play with you. :)
  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

5/15/13 8:31:25 PM#27
Op, I completely disagree with many of your points. For example you claim that rpers are disappearing (which you claim is due to lack of support) and then you claim that they form the glue that holds your community together, both of which the numbers disprove. Rpers only make up ~5% of a playerbase. They are disappearing because there are flatly more places for them to go, and the playerbases tend to be larger. Any lack of support is due mainly to the fact that rpers both play less than more "normal" players and are said tiny percent. Plus rpers are rather elitist. They like being part of their tiny niche, and they tend to have other psychological problems, using rp as a means of coping.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5140

5/16/13 4:37:26 AM#28

"They like being part of their tiny niche, and they tend to have other psychological problems, using rp as a means of coping."

We can be elitist and like being in cliques too much. But psychological problems? I don't need a guy who thinks he is Captain America to tell me we have psychological problems thanks. :D

  Rewhymo

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/12
Posts: 53

5/16/13 5:14:40 AM#29

I played SWG from day 1 to its very last day. It had its ups it had its downs (CU-NGE) but no matter what i always found that RP in that game was so vivid and full of life. You could always tell who was a new RPer and who was a vet. But no matter what in the end it always felt like ready a book.

What i miss from the original release was the skill progression. It allowed veterans and noobs to figh together without the standard *if hes ten levels higher you get nothing* issue it todays mmos. 

i could log into SWG and RP for hours apon hours across all the planets. Its sandbox build and jump to lightspeed expansion made it the number one mmorpg out there IMO. 

Ive been across MMOs today and i find myself finding the same thing over and over. People join rp servers and rush to max level just so they can RP but that can take anywhere from 2 weeks to a month of work. 

Now the best RPing ive ever done in any game was in Second life. from SWRP to Gor, to a meriad of different RP worlds. I got so addicted to Second life Roleplaying as there was legitimatly nothing you couldnt do. If you think of it chances are its been made you just need to find it.

"Plus rpers are rather elitist. They like being part of their tiny niche, and they tend to have other psychological problems, using rp as a means of coping."

To the above yes i can agree some RPers can be elitist but for good reasons. We enjoy or story telling and its rather annoying when "normal" players as you refer to them grief us and ruin our game. This is why we keep to ourselves. As for psychological problems? Not all humans have a mental fortitude of steal and every deals with issues differently. If a video allows a person peace and escape who are you to judge them? 

But thats only a minority within the RP groups. The majority of roleplayers like myself roleplay and choose who we RP with carefully because we want mind challenging stories and indepth game play that truly feels like another life in of itself. Actually one RPer i played with in Second life is an accomplished novelist. 

The "normal" boring grind and gear tread mill is just to plain and simplistic. its not mentally engaging for us. 

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/16/13 6:22:41 AM#30
Originally posted by superdarth

Though I find it sad, the time where roleplayers, story and immersion was an MMO's source of primary income is well and truly past. Roleplayers are loyal, yes, but also in such an extreme minority that no profit can be generated from roleplayers alone. We are simply not the target audience. Gamers looking for easy fun or online entertainment, raiding, PvP, all generate more income.

That is not to say a game can't increase their profit by catering to roleplayers, but roleplaying is a niche, with a relatively low amount of players, especially outside the mainstream MMO.

I mean, I love roleplaying, but still, it's pretty obvious we're not a cash cow.

In fact, we're a cost; for a game to 'do it right' on our behalf.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

5/16/13 11:56:46 AM#31
Originally posted by Scot

"They like being part of their tiny niche, and they tend to have other psychological problems, using rp as a means of coping."

We can be elitist and like being in cliques too much. But psychological problems? I don't need a guy who thinks he is Captain America to tell me we have psychological problems thanks. :D

That is Captain Murica. But yeah, the data would disagree with you.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2010/02/15/what-roleplayers-look-like/

There is also real data why "virtual worlds" have disappeared.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2011/06/03/are-virtual-worlds-just-for-kids/

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5140

5/17/13 4:05:46 AM#32
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Scot

"They like being part of their tiny niche, and they tend to have other psychological problems, using rp as a means of coping."

We can be elitist and like being in cliques too much. But psychological problems? I don't need a guy who thinks he is Captain America to tell me we have psychological problems thanks. :D

That is Captain Murica. But yeah, the data would disagree with you.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2010/02/15/what-roleplayers-look-like/

There is also real data why "virtual worlds" have disappeared.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2011/06/03/are-virtual-worlds-just-for-kids/

 

Well now I know who Captain Murcia is, it must be more a US thing.

A couple of papers proves little. Might I ask, was a random set of people used as a control group? If you take a sub set of society you are going to find people with "psychological problems" especially if that's what you are looking for. So a random group of people as a control would be essential.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

5/17/13 9:34:11 AM#33
Originally posted by Scot

A couple of papers proves little. Might I ask, was a random set of people used as a control group? If you take a sub set of society you are going to find people with "psychological problems" especially if that's what you are looking for. So a random group of people as a control would be essential.

Not quite, because this was pulled from a total playerbase. Those particular findings are pulled from many terabytes of data pulled from Eq2 total metrics. Though there has also been similar findings from a similar chunk pulled from total player metrics from Second Life. Though it is only pulled from a single game, and may not be conclusive for all playerbases it must be taken at face value until more data is acquired.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11896

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

5/17/13 10:03:18 AM#34

Roleplaying is definitely one facet of the greater goal of giving players context within the game world so that they spend their time focusing on being part of it (of which the community is one part) rather than leveling through it. When a player's interactions with the world environment and other players in the game world has more meaning or relevance than just necessities for progression, stronger communities form within the player population. 

 

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

5/17/13 12:56:43 PM#35
Originally posted by Loktofeit

Roleplaying is definitely one facet of the greater goal of giving players context within the game world so that they spend their time focusing on being part of it (of which the community is one part) rather than leveling through it. When a player's interactions with the world environment and other players in the game world has more meaning or relevance than just necessities for progression, stronger communities form within the player population. 

I do not feel that is a fair assessment and would love to see data to the contrary. I do not see how roleplaying your own story within the game world brings deeper or more meaningful interaction than say being part of a raid team.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11896

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

5/17/13 1:22:03 PM#36
Originally posted by jimdandy26   I do not see how roleplaying your own story within the game world brings deeper or more meaningful interaction than say being part of a raid team.

I agree, and made no such claim to the contrary.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

5/17/13 1:52:39 PM#37
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by jimdandy26   I do not see how roleplaying your own story within the game world brings deeper or more meaningful interaction than say being part of a raid team.

I agree, and made no such claim to the contrary.

Fair enough. I seemingly read too much into your comment about "necessities for progression". I enjoy good debate, especially when taking the unpopular position but there is far too much "you shot my dog" feelings coming from the popular side so I tend to get defensive. :(

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5140

5/18/13 5:08:16 AM#38

You did not shoot my dog, but I have a bit of a bug when it comes to scientific accuracy. I think it is reasonable to extrapolate from a few games to many. But like most social studies this starts from the assumption you don't need a control group, coming from a background in biology I always question that.

Further I would not expect this to be done for every study. Such studies of groups could be compared to a control group for the year it was done. But sociologists see no reason to do this, they think they can iron out internal bias with methodology and personal veracity. That is very questionable in my eyes.

I wonder how many people in a control group would seen as needing a group as a crutch, have addictive behaviour and so on? While I do not discount such work, it always raises a question mark with me.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

5/18/13 8:50:09 PM#39
Originally posted by Scot

You did not shoot my dog, but I have a bit of a bug when it comes to scientific accuracy. I think it is reasonable to extrapolate from a few games to many. But like most social studies this starts from the assumption you don't need a control group, coming from a background in biology I always question that.

Further I would not expect this to be done for every study. Such studies of groups could be compared to a control group for the year it was done. But sociologists see no reason to do this, they think they can iron out internal bias with methodology and personal veracity. That is very questionable in my eyes.

I wonder how many people in a control group would seen as needing a group as a crutch, have addictive behaviour and so on? While I do not discount such work, it always raises a question mark with me.

Because in biology its generally gathering data for a hypothesis based on some sort of change. This was nothing more than pure measurement of data. You do not need a control group when asking how many cherries there are in your cup of fruit cocktail.

You can find similar studies from both Yee and Bartle. Bartle still has his own personal blog, and arguably has the most hands on expertise. Yee has his Daedlus project, which is unfortunately no longer updated, but still has a ton of data still floating around if you want to nab it.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

5/18/13 9:02:22 PM#40
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Op, I completely disagree with many of your points. For example you claim that rpers are disappearing (which you claim is due to lack of support) and then you claim that they form the glue that holds your community together, both of which the numbers disprove. Rpers only make up ~5% of a playerbase. They are disappearing because there are flatly more places for them to go, and the playerbases tend to be larger. Any lack of support is due mainly to the fact that rpers both play less than more "normal" players and are said tiny percent. Plus rpers are rather elitist. They like being part of their tiny niche, and they tend to have other psychological problems, using rp as a means of coping.

No. A coping skill is not something that requires a pathology to utilize. Are you licensed and trained to diagnose these symptoms? If so, where did you get the background information disclosed in order to perform your assessment? In what way was their behavior maladaptive enough to warrant the Dx in the first place? 

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Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

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