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54 posts found
  reeereee

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 490

5/12/13 9:01:19 PM#21
Originally posted by flizzer
Ive never completely understood the appeal of WoW since I never liked the game, I suppose.  I remember reading a long post on here about how someone said many of these people complaining about finding a game after WoW don't really like MMos but only like WoW.  I'm not sure how true that is, but I did find it interesting.  

Why are these people not satisfied with all the WoW clones out there?  There is no shortage of games that are very similar to WoW. 

 

I think most people who played WoW for a long time are looking for something very different, but there is little out there other than gw2 and small niche games like DF.

  Epicent

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/10
Posts: 662

Die clickers Die!!!

 
OP  5/12/13 9:04:25 PM#22
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DarkLordIxor
Originally posted by DavisFlight
You can't be picky if you thought WoW was deep or well made...

Haha exactly this. WoW ruined the genre and now for the pat 7+ years every mmo wants to carbon copy their success which is not possible and completely stagnant the genre.

??? WoW used to be a great game. Even though I don't enjoy it anymore and don't like the direction it went in I don't let personal bias cloud my judgement when I make statements about a game. WoW does what it does and it does it well. It just doesn't suit me as it has changed through the years.

What is does is a boring mindless treadmill. And it was never a great game. It was an average to below average game, with a lot of flaws imported from EverQuest. But it was better in the past than it is now.

Literally millions of people disagree with you I'm sure. There is a reason it retains so many subs. I hated Cataclysm and I dislike MoP but to say the game is a bad mmo seems naive to me. It did many many things right and has earned my respect as one of the best mmos ever created. To the post above this one I have played EQ2. :). Liked it alot but couldnt hold my interest for more than a couple of months. Couldnt stand that I could run vertically up mountains lol.

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 622

5/12/13 9:13:30 PM#23
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DarkLordIxor
Originally posted by DavisFlight
You can't be picky if you thought WoW was deep or well made...

Haha exactly this. WoW ruined the genre and now for the pat 7+ years every mmo wants to carbon copy their success which is not possible and completely stagnant the genre.

??? WoW used to be a great game. Even though I don't enjoy it anymore and don't like the direction it went in I don't let personal bias cloud my judgement when I make statements about a game. WoW does what it does and it does it well. It just doesn't suit me as it has changed through the years.

What is does is a boring mindless treadmill. And it was never a great game. It was an average to below average game, with a lot of flaws imported from EverQuest. But it was better in the past than it is now.

Literally millions of people disagree with you I'm sure. There is a reason it retains so many subs. I hated Cataclysm and I dislike MoP but to say the game is a bad mmo seems naive to me. It did many many things right and has earned my respect as one of the best mmos ever created. To the post above this one I have played EQ2. :). Liked it alot but couldnt hold my interest for more than a couple of months. Couldnt stand that I could run vertically up mountains lol.

Lady gaga and Pewdiepie of youtube are also popular with millions of followers, doesnt make their music and lets plays respectively any good what so ever.

Popularity doesnt equal quality.

WoW was always a mediocre game loved by the masses by its ease of acess and dumbed down gameplay, just like LoL is now liked for the same reasons.

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5414

5/12/13 9:34:15 PM#24
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DarkLordIxor
Originally posted by DavisFlight
You can't be picky if you thought WoW was deep or well made...

Haha exactly this. WoW ruined the genre and now for the pat 7+ years every mmo wants to carbon copy their success which is not possible and completely stagnant the genre.

??? WoW used to be a great game. Even though I don't enjoy it anymore and don't like the direction it went in I don't let personal bias cloud my judgement when I make statements about a game. WoW does what it does and it does it well. It just doesn't suit me as it has changed through the years.

What is does is a boring mindless treadmill. And it was never a great game. It was an average to below average game, with a lot of flaws imported from EverQuest. But it was better in the past than it is now.

Literally millions of people disagree with you I'm sure. There is a reason it retains so many subs. I hated Cataclysm and I dislike MoP but to say the game is a bad mmo seems naive to me. It did many many things right and has earned my respect as one of the best mmos ever created. To the post above this one I have played EQ2. :). Liked it alot but couldnt hold my interest for more than a couple of months. Couldnt stand that I could run vertically up mountains lol.

Lady gaga and Pewdiepie of youtube are also popular with millions of followers, doesnt make their music and lets plays respectively any good what so ever.

Popularity doesnt equal quality.

WoW was always a mediocre game loved by the masses by its ease of acess and dumbed down gameplay, just like LoL is now liked for the same reasons.

Yeah, but the opinion of some random forum guy doesn't make anything good or bad either. Popularity also doesn't equal lack of quality no matter what the MMORPG wannabe hipsters would like to believe.

 

He liked the game and you don't. Does this make you think that you're right or something?

 

WoW was one of the best games ever.

WoW was mediocre.

WoW was awesome.

WoW sucked.

 

At least have some kind of reasoning behind what you say. "WoW was dumbed down" doesn't say anything except that you may be incredibly inept at finding the depth that is in the gameplay. I mean, what do you even play? Could you at least recommend a game that this poor player that loves this mediocre experience can pick up? 

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Magiknight

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 607

5/12/13 9:41:59 PM#25
Originally posted by DavisFlight
You can't be picky if you thought WoW was deep or well made...

rofl

  MyBoot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/25/12
Posts: 132

5/12/13 9:47:42 PM#26
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DarkLordIxor
Originally posted by DavisFlight
You can't be picky if you thought WoW was deep or well made...

Haha exactly this. WoW ruined the genre and now for the pat 7+ years every mmo wants to carbon copy their success which is not possible and completely stagnant the genre.

??? WoW used to be a great game. Even though I don't enjoy it anymore and don't like the direction it went in I don't let personal bias cloud my judgement when I make statements about a game. WoW does what it does and it does it well. It just doesn't suit me as it has changed through the years.

What is does is a boring mindless treadmill. And it was never a great game. It was an average to below average game, with a lot of flaws imported from EverQuest. But it was better in the past than it is now.

Literally millions of people disagree with you I'm sure. There is a reason it retains so many subs. I hated Cataclysm and I dislike MoP but to say the game is a bad mmo seems naive to me. It did many many things right and has earned my respect as one of the best mmos ever created. To the post above this one I have played EQ2. :). Liked it alot but couldnt hold my interest for more than a couple of months. Couldnt stand that I could run vertically up mountains lol.

Lady gaga and Pewdiepie of youtube are also popular with millions of followers, doesnt make their music and lets plays respectively any good what so ever.

Popularity doesnt equal quality.

WoW was always a mediocre game loved by the masses by its ease of acess and dumbed down gameplay, just like LoL is now liked for the same reasons.

Yeah, but the opinion of some random forum guy doesn't make anything good or bad either. Popularity also doesn't equal lack of quality no matter what the MMORPG wannabe hipsters would like to believe.

 

He liked the game and you don't. Does this make you think that you're right or something?

 

WoW was one of the best games ever.

WoW was mediocre.

WoW was awesome.

WoW sucked.

 

At least have some kind of reasoning behind what you say. "WoW was dumbed down" doesn't say anything except that you may be incredibly inept at finding the depth that is in the gameplay. I mean, what do you even play? Could you at least recommend a game that this poor player that loves this mediocre experience can pick up? 

Different things make MMO's great to different people, I played WoW for years and I played with real life mates and we had a blast, It was my friends I played with that made the game great not the game itself. After they left for other games and I ended up playing with pugs and guilds where I didn't know the people as well is when I lost interest in the game.  

  Epicent

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/10
Posts: 662

Die clickers Die!!!

 
OP  5/12/13 9:52:44 PM#27
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DarkLordIxor
Originally posted by DavisFlight
You can't be picky if you thought WoW was deep or well made...

Haha exactly this. WoW ruined the genre and now for the pat 7+ years every mmo wants to carbon copy their success which is not possible and completely stagnant the genre.

??? WoW used to be a great game. Even though I don't enjoy it anymore and don't like the direction it went in I don't let personal bias cloud my judgement when I make statements about a game. WoW does what it does and it does it well. It just doesn't suit me as it has changed through the years.

What is does is a boring mindless treadmill. And it was never a great game. It was an average to below average game, with a lot of flaws imported from EverQuest. But it was better in the past than it is now.

Literally millions of people disagree with you I'm sure. There is a reason it retains so many subs. I hated Cataclysm and I dislike MoP but to say the game is a bad mmo seems naive to me. It did many many things right and has earned my respect as one of the best mmos ever created. To the post above this one I have played EQ2. :). Liked it alot but couldnt hold my interest for more than a couple of months. Couldnt stand that I could run vertically up mountains lol.

Lady gaga and Pewdiepie of youtube are also popular with millions of followers, doesnt make their music and lets plays respectively any good what so ever.

Popularity doesnt equal quality.

WoW was always a mediocre game loved by the masses by its ease of acess and dumbed down gameplay, just like LoL is now liked for the same reasons.

Yeah, but the opinion of some random forum guy doesn't make anything good or bad either. Popularity also doesn't equal lack of quality no matter what the MMORPG wannabe hipsters would like to believe.

 

He liked the game and you don't. Does this make you think that you're right or something?

 

WoW was one of the best games ever.

WoW was mediocre.

WoW was awesome.

WoW sucked.

 

At least have some kind of reasoning behind what you say. "WoW was dumbed down" doesn't say anything except that you may be incredibly inept at finding the depth that is in the gameplay. I mean, what do you even play? Could you at least recommend a game that this poor player that loves this mediocre experience can pick up? 

People just have a habit of bashing on WoW. No other game gets as much hate and there is a reason for this.  These forums are full of trolls though. I don't expect maturity from most of the people on here anymore. WoW isn't my favorite game. But the feeling I got when I used to play it was very good. The world was huge. They had a ton of raids. Open world pvp used to be awesome. The dungeons were great. (this was all before dungeon and raid finder mind you.) The game WAS really deep to ME regardless of what you might say. If you want a very very small portion of the list of games I have played just refer to my profile. I have literally played..........damn................has to be well over 100 mmos if I count them all up. I am completely non biased and have even got kicked out of guilds for saying other mmos are good in certain games. If a game has fine points I will point them out. If it has weaknesses I will point those out. I don't have some odd emotional tie to certain games that I have to get on the forums and bash them. You remind me of a certain other forum user that gets on the Darkfall Forums and CONSTANTLY bashes that game. Thats ridiculous trolling and not the point of these forums. That user shall remain nameless but people hunt alot of deer where I am from...........................if you catch my drift.

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 622

5/12/13 9:54:25 PM#28
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DarkLordIxor
Originally posted by DavisFlight
You can't be picky if you thought WoW was deep or well made...

Haha exactly this. WoW ruined the genre and now for the pat 7+ years every mmo wants to carbon copy their success which is not possible and completely stagnant the genre.

??? WoW used to be a great game. Even though I don't enjoy it anymore and don't like the direction it went in I don't let personal bias cloud my judgement when I make statements about a game. WoW does what it does and it does it well. It just doesn't suit me as it has changed through the years.

What is does is a boring mindless treadmill. And it was never a great game. It was an average to below average game, with a lot of flaws imported from EverQuest. But it was better in the past than it is now.

Literally millions of people disagree with you I'm sure. There is a reason it retains so many subs. I hated Cataclysm and I dislike MoP but to say the game is a bad mmo seems naive to me. It did many many things right and has earned my respect as one of the best mmos ever created. To the post above this one I have played EQ2. :). Liked it alot but couldnt hold my interest for more than a couple of months. Couldnt stand that I could run vertically up mountains lol.

Lady gaga and Pewdiepie of youtube are also popular with millions of followers, doesnt make their music and lets plays respectively any good what so ever.

Popularity doesnt equal quality.

WoW was always a mediocre game loved by the masses by its ease of acess and dumbed down gameplay, just like LoL is now liked for the same reasons.

Yeah, but the opinion of some random forum guy doesn't make anything good or bad either. Popularity also doesn't equal lack of quality no matter what the MMORPG wannabe hipsters would like to believe.

 

He liked the game and you don't. Does this make you think that you're right or something?

 

WoW was one of the best games ever.

WoW was mediocre.

WoW was awesome.

WoW sucked.

 

At least have some kind of reasoning behind what you say. "WoW was dumbed down" doesn't say anything except that you may be incredibly inept at finding the depth that is in the gameplay. I mean, what do you even play? Could you at least recommend a game that this poor player that loves this mediocre experience can pick up? 

You can love a game and it can still be mediocre. I love a lot of mediocre games. Me loving them does not make them suddenly deep.

Yes WoW was dumbed down in comparisson to previous MMOs, thats the whole reason it became so popular, it opened a door to a niche genre by making it more accesible. (Im not going to go in detail, this has been discussed  for years)

Also, mainstream of w/e is always very shallow, always, because the majority of people are like that and are atracted to that kind of entertainment. And theres nothing wrong with that.

I play guild wars 2, like you do. Love the game and its a step above WoW. But i will never claim its a very deep game, it is deep enough for a mainstream game, and thats all it needs.

But if you really want a game that i play that is deep i would nominate the Civ series or right now on alpha  kerbal space program

  Epicent

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/10
Posts: 662

Die clickers Die!!!

 
OP  5/12/13 9:56:24 PM#29
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DarkLordIxor
Originally posted by DavisFlight
You can't be picky if you thought WoW was deep or well made...

Haha exactly this. WoW ruined the genre and now for the pat 7+ years every mmo wants to carbon copy their success which is not possible and completely stagnant the genre.

??? WoW used to be a great game. Even though I don't enjoy it anymore and don't like the direction it went in I don't let personal bias cloud my judgement when I make statements about a game. WoW does what it does and it does it well. It just doesn't suit me as it has changed through the years.

What is does is a boring mindless treadmill. And it was never a great game. It was an average to below average game, with a lot of flaws imported from EverQuest. But it was better in the past than it is now.

Literally millions of people disagree with you I'm sure. There is a reason it retains so many subs. I hated Cataclysm and I dislike MoP but to say the game is a bad mmo seems naive to me. It did many many things right and has earned my respect as one of the best mmos ever created. To the post above this one I have played EQ2. :). Liked it alot but couldnt hold my interest for more than a couple of months. Couldnt stand that I could run vertically up mountains lol.

Lady gaga and Pewdiepie of youtube are also popular with millions of followers, doesnt make their music and lets plays respectively any good what so ever.

Popularity doesnt equal quality.

WoW was always a mediocre game loved by the masses by its ease of acess and dumbed down gameplay, just like LoL is now liked for the same reasons.

Yeah, but the opinion of some random forum guy doesn't make anything good or bad either. Popularity also doesn't equal lack of quality no matter what the MMORPG wannabe hipsters would like to believe.

 

He liked the game and you don't. Does this make you think that you're right or something?

 

WoW was one of the best games ever.

WoW was mediocre.

WoW was awesome.

WoW sucked.

 

At least have some kind of reasoning behind what you say. "WoW was dumbed down" doesn't say anything except that you may be incredibly inept at finding the depth that is in the gameplay. I mean, what do you even play? Could you at least recommend a game that this poor player that loves this mediocre experience can pick up? 

You can love a game and it can still be mediocre. I love a lot of mediocre games. Me loving them does not make them suddenly deep.

Yes WoW was dumbed down in comparisson to previous MMOs, thats the whole reason it became so popular, it opened a door to a niche genre by making it more accesible. (Im not going to go in detail, this has been discussed  for years)

Also, mainstream of w/e is always very shallow, always, because the majority of people are like that and are atracted to that kind of entertainment. And theres nothing wrong with that.

I play guild wars 2, like you do. Love the game and its a step above WoW. But i will never claim its a very deep game, it is deep enough for a mainstream game, and thats all it needs.

But if you really want a game that i play that is deep i would nominate the Civ series or right now on alpha  kerbal space program

WoW was dumbed down and that is why it has become popular? Are you serious? Even vanilla WoW had huge numbers and was immensely popular.

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 622

5/12/13 10:02:24 PM#30
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DarkLordIxor
Originally posted by DavisFlight
You can't be picky if you thought WoW was deep or well made...

Haha exactly this. WoW ruined the genre and now for the pat 7+ years every mmo wants to carbon copy their success which is not possible and completely stagnant the genre.

??? WoW used to be a great game. Even though I don't enjoy it anymore and don't like the direction it went in I don't let personal bias cloud my judgement when I make statements about a game. WoW does what it does and it does it well. It just doesn't suit me as it has changed through the years.

What is does is a boring mindless treadmill. And it was never a great game. It was an average to below average game, with a lot of flaws imported from EverQuest. But it was better in the past than it is now.

Literally millions of people disagree with you I'm sure. There is a reason it retains so many subs. I hated Cataclysm and I dislike MoP but to say the game is a bad mmo seems naive to me. It did many many things right and has earned my respect as one of the best mmos ever created. To the post above this one I have played EQ2. :). Liked it alot but couldnt hold my interest for more than a couple of months. Couldnt stand that I could run vertically up mountains lol.

Lady gaga and Pewdiepie of youtube are also popular with millions of followers, doesnt make their music and lets plays respectively any good what so ever.

Popularity doesnt equal quality.

WoW was always a mediocre game loved by the masses by its ease of acess and dumbed down gameplay, just like LoL is now liked for the same reasons.

Yeah, but the opinion of some random forum guy doesn't make anything good or bad either. Popularity also doesn't equal lack of quality no matter what the MMORPG wannabe hipsters would like to believe.

 

He liked the game and you don't. Does this make you think that you're right or something?

 

WoW was one of the best games ever.

WoW was mediocre.

WoW was awesome.

WoW sucked.

 

At least have some kind of reasoning behind what you say. "WoW was dumbed down" doesn't say anything except that you may be incredibly inept at finding the depth that is in the gameplay. I mean, what do you even play? Could you at least recommend a game that this poor player that loves this mediocre experience can pick up? 

People just have a habit of bashing on WoW. No other game gets as much hate and there is a reason for this.  These forums are full of trolls though. I don't expect maturity from most of the people on here anymore. WoW isn't my favorite game. But the feeling I got when I used to play it was very good. The world was huge. They had a ton of raids. Open world pvp used to be awesome. The dungeons were great. (this was all before dungeon and raid finder mind you.) The game WAS really deep to ME regardless of what you might say. If you want a very very small portion of the list of games I have played just refer to my profile. I have literally played..........damn................has to be well over 100 mmos if I count them all up. I am completely non biased and have even got kicked out of guilds for saying other mmos are good in certain games. If a game has fine points I will point them out. If it has weaknesses I will point those out. I don't have some odd emotional tie to certain games that I have to get on the forums and bash them. You remind me of a certain other forum user that gets on the Darkfall Forums and CONSTANTLY bashes that game. Thats ridiculous trolling and not the point of these forums. That user shall remain nameless but people hunt alot of deer where I am from...........................if you catch my drift.

You can check my previous posts if you like, ive never bashed WoW.  I also played for maybe 3 weeks, got no sentimental atachment to it. But theres no more to WoW than meets the eye.  Creating an optimal skill build was always  pretty easy, relies on the trinity for all its high end content, set rotations of skills for everyone, lower penalty in death etc. When you can predict exactly how something will go  by not even watching it 90% of the time, then its not very deep.

  simsalabim77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 530

5/12/13 10:06:03 PM#31

 

You can love a game and it can still be mediocre. I love a lot of mediocre games. Me loving them does not make them suddenly deep.

Yes WoW was dumbed down in comparisson to previous MMOs, thats the whole reason it became so popular, it opened a door to a niche genre by making it more accesible. (Im not going to go in detail, this has been discussed  for years)

Also, mainstream of w/e is always very shallow, always, because the majority of people are like that and are atracted to that kind of entertainment. And theres nothing wrong with that.

I play guild wars 2, like you do. Love the game and its a step above WoW. But i will never claim its a very deep game, it is deep enough for a mainstream game, and thats all it needs.

But if you really want a game that i play that is deep i would nominate the Civ series or right now on alpha  kerbal space program

 

Quality is in the eye of the beholder which seems to be something that the majority of posters on this forum are easily confused by. If you can give me a single reasons as to why WoW is mediocre then I will be proven wrong, but keep in mind the reasons have to be facts and not your opinion. You can't do it. You think WoW lacks depth. I don't really care about depth. 

Having an opinion and defending it is fine, but you can't state, as a fact, that a certain game is mediocre. It is mediocre based on your previous experiences with the genre, but someone else will have a completely different viewpoint because they have a completely different background. 

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 622

5/12/13 10:11:00 PM#32
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by DarkLordIxor
Originally posted by DavisFlight
You can't be picky if you thought WoW was deep or well made...

Haha exactly this. WoW ruined the genre and now for the pat 7+ years every mmo wants to carbon copy their success which is not possible and completely stagnant the genre.

??? WoW used to be a great game. Even though I don't enjoy it anymore and don't like the direction it went in I don't let personal bias cloud my judgement when I make statements about a game. WoW does what it does and it does it well. It just doesn't suit me as it has changed through the years.

What is does is a boring mindless treadmill. And it was never a great game. It was an average to below average game, with a lot of flaws imported from EverQuest. But it was better in the past than it is now.

Literally millions of people disagree with you I'm sure. There is a reason it retains so many subs. I hated Cataclysm and I dislike MoP but to say the game is a bad mmo seems naive to me. It did many many things right and has earned my respect as one of the best mmos ever created. To the post above this one I have played EQ2. :). Liked it alot but couldnt hold my interest for more than a couple of months. Couldnt stand that I could run vertically up mountains lol.

Lady gaga and Pewdiepie of youtube are also popular with millions of followers, doesnt make their music and lets plays respectively any good what so ever.

Popularity doesnt equal quality.

WoW was always a mediocre game loved by the masses by its ease of acess and dumbed down gameplay, just like LoL is now liked for the same reasons.

Yeah, but the opinion of some random forum guy doesn't make anything good or bad either. Popularity also doesn't equal lack of quality no matter what the MMORPG wannabe hipsters would like to believe.

 

He liked the game and you don't. Does this make you think that you're right or something?

 

WoW was one of the best games ever.

WoW was mediocre.

WoW was awesome.

WoW sucked.

 

At least have some kind of reasoning behind what you say. "WoW was dumbed down" doesn't say anything except that you may be incredibly inept at finding the depth that is in the gameplay. I mean, what do you even play? Could you at least recommend a game that this poor player that loves this mediocre experience can pick up? 

You can love a game and it can still be mediocre. I love a lot of mediocre games. Me loving them does not make them suddenly deep.

Yes WoW was dumbed down in comparisson to previous MMOs, thats the whole reason it became so popular, it opened a door to a niche genre by making it more accesible. (Im not going to go in detail, this has been discussed  for years)

Also, mainstream of w/e is always very shallow, always, because the majority of people are like that and are atracted to that kind of entertainment. And theres nothing wrong with that.

I play guild wars 2, like you do. Love the game and its a step above WoW. But i will never claim its a very deep game, it is deep enough for a mainstream game, and thats all it needs.

But if you really want a game that i play that is deep i would nominate the Civ series or right now on alpha  kerbal space program

WoW was dumbed down and that is why it has become popular? Are you serious? Even vanilla WoW had huge numbers and was immensely popular.

When i say WoW im including its vanilla time. It was indeed less deep than games before it, thats why it rose in popularity so fast. By 2005 it had about 1 million subs,  unheard of at the time.

Rest exp, less downtime between fights,  lower death penalties etc, were the main contributions to this.

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5414

5/12/13 10:15:19 PM#33
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by colddog04

Yeah, but the opinion of some random forum guy doesn't make anything good or bad either. Popularity also doesn't equal lack of quality no matter what the MMORPG wannabe hipsters would like to believe.

 

He liked the game and you don't. Does this make you think that you're right or something?

 

WoW was one of the best games ever.

WoW was mediocre.

WoW was awesome.

WoW sucked.

 

At least have some kind of reasoning behind what you say. "WoW was dumbed down" doesn't say anything except that you may be incredibly inept at finding the depth that is in the gameplay. I mean, what do you even play? Could you at least recommend a game that this poor player that loves this mediocre experience can pick up? 

You can love a game and it can still be mediocre. I love a lot of mediocre games. Me loving them does not make them suddenly deep.

Yes WoW was dumbed down in comparisson to previous MMOs, thats the whole reason it became so popular, it opened a door to a niche genre by making it more accesible. (Im not going to go in detail, this has been discussed  for years)

Also, mainstream of w/e is always very shallow, always, because the majority of people are like that and are atracted to that kind of entertainment. And theres nothing wrong with that.

I play guild wars 2, like you do. Love the game and its a step above WoW. But i will never claim its a very deep game, it is deep enough for a mainstream game, and thats all it needs.

But if you really want a game that i play that is deep i would nominate the Civ series or right now on alpha  kerbal space program

See, you're doing it again. You are just stating it is dumbed down without offering anything to back it up. You call it mediocre because... I think it's because you believe it to be fact. I'm writing a web series with one of my buddies about EQ using EQ 1999 and EQ might be the ultimate in dumbed down experiences in my opinion. While relentless in it's punishment for death and it's xp curve, it actually plays like retarded turtle. That came before WoW. I mean, if we are talking straight gameplay, WoW blew a lot of those older MMOs out of the water.

 

I agree that WoW made their game more accessible. But accessibility does not equal shallow, dumbed down or mediocre. It did open the doors for the genre and it has probably had too much influence on what was made after it. But that does not equal what you are saying. You are saying mediocre without actually saying why. 

 

Mainsteam is not always very shallow. That might be one of the most ridiculous points I've ever read. Was Radiohead shallow? What about some of the great comedians? Was George Carlin shallow? Was The Godfather shallow? Was A Tale of Two Cities shallow?

 

Going outside of the genre to find a game seems a little strange since the OP actually asked for an MMORPG. But whatever. I play Civ too and there are a ton of great single player experiences you can have. Just like, in my opinion, there are a lot of great MMORPG experiences you can have.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 622

5/12/13 10:20:51 PM#34
Originally posted by simsalabim77

 

You can love a game and it can still be mediocre. I love a lot of mediocre games. Me loving them does not make them suddenly deep.

Yes WoW was dumbed down in comparisson to previous MMOs, thats the whole reason it became so popular, it opened a door to a niche genre by making it more accesible. (Im not going to go in detail, this has been discussed  for years)

Also, mainstream of w/e is always very shallow, always, because the majority of people are like that and are atracted to that kind of entertainment. And theres nothing wrong with that.

I play guild wars 2, like you do. Love the game and its a step above WoW. But i will never claim its a very deep game, it is deep enough for a mainstream game, and thats all it needs.

But if you really want a game that i play that is deep i would nominate the Civ series or right now on alpha  kerbal space program

 

Quality is in the eye of the beholder which seems to be something that the majority of posters on this forum are easily confused by. If you can give me a single reasons as to why WoW is mediocre then I will be proven wrong, but keep in mind the reasons have to be facts and not your opinion. You can't do it. You think WoW lacks depth. I don't really care about depth. 

Having an opinion and defending it is fine, but you can't state, as a fact, that a certain game is mediocre. It is mediocre based on your previous experiences with the genre, but someone else will have a completely different viewpoint because they have a completely different background. 

I want to point out to you something that you and coldog might be missing. Ive never said previous mmos werent mediocre either(notice i said games). MMOs until recently were glorified chat rooms. Most were bad designed games with lots of problems.

A game can be deep and still mediocre. A game doesnt need to be deep to be good.

Maybe my sentecne construction at the begginign didnt make it ovious(english isnt my first language sorry) But when i used the lady gaga and pewdiepie thing to say it doesnt make them any good i was trying to just point out that saying something is good because a lot of other people like it its not very smart to the op

  simsalabim77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 530

5/12/13 10:23:51 PM#35
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by simsalabim77

 

You can love a game and it can still be mediocre. I love a lot of mediocre games. Me loving them does not make them suddenly deep.

Yes WoW was dumbed down in comparisson to previous MMOs, thats the whole reason it became so popular, it opened a door to a niche genre by making it more accesible. (Im not going to go in detail, this has been discussed  for years)

Also, mainstream of w/e is always very shallow, always, because the majority of people are like that and are atracted to that kind of entertainment. And theres nothing wrong with that.

I play guild wars 2, like you do. Love the game and its a step above WoW. But i will never claim its a very deep game, it is deep enough for a mainstream game, and thats all it needs.

But if you really want a game that i play that is deep i would nominate the Civ series or right now on alpha  kerbal space program

 

Quality is in the eye of the beholder which seems to be something that the majority of posters on this forum are easily confused by. If you can give me a single reasons as to why WoW is mediocre then I will be proven wrong, but keep in mind the reasons have to be facts and not your opinion. You can't do it. You think WoW lacks depth. I don't really care about depth. 

Having an opinion and defending it is fine, but you can't state, as a fact, that a certain game is mediocre. It is mediocre based on your previous experiences with the genre, but someone else will have a completely different viewpoint because they have a completely different background. 

I want to point out to you something that you and coldog might be missing. Ive never said previous mmos werent mediocre either(notice i said games). MMOs until recently were glorified chat rooms. Most were bad designed games with lots of problems.

A game can be deep and still mediocre. You can love a game and it doenst need to be deep for it. 

 

You're completely missing the point, but that's okay. 

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5414

5/12/13 10:24:06 PM#36
Originally posted by austriacus

When i say WoW im including its vanilla time. It was indeed less deep than games before it, thats why it rose in popularity so fast. By 2005 it had about 1 million subs,  unheard of at the time.

Rest exp, less downtime between fights,  lower death penalties etc, were the main contributions to this.

None of those things means it has less depth. Maybe that's where the disconnection is. You think that harsh death penalties, harsher leveling curves and more downtime between fight = depth. Depth requires that choices be made. In your examples, there are no choices to be made.

 

Wait... here, watch this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/depth-vs.-complexity

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Shadowguy64

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 880

5/12/13 10:24:12 PM#37

Real MMO players don't take the WoW bashers seriously. Obviously they are bashing WoW to overcompensate for something. Just like middle aged men buy fancy sports cars to overcompensate certain limitations they have. I'm willing to bet very few of these 'WoW bashers" were very good at whatever MMO they deem superior. 

 

WoW is popular for a reason. Being a shallow shell of a game isn't one of them.  

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 622

5/12/13 10:29:57 PM#38
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by austriacus

When i say WoW im including its vanilla time. It was indeed less deep than games before it, thats why it rose in popularity so fast. By 2005 it had about 1 million subs,  unheard of at the time.

Rest exp, less downtime between fights,  lower death penalties etc, were the main contributions to this.

None of those things means it has less depth. Maybe that's where the disconnection is. You think that harsh death penalties, harsher leveling curves and more downtime between fight = depth. Depth requires that choices be made. In your examples, there are no choices to be made.

 

Wait... here, watch this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/depth-vs.-complexity

When you know before an encounter that you will recover HP quickly or that you will not take heavy loses after a death you are indeed taking less choices because theres less factors you have to consider for your next action

I watch extra credits religiously no need to point it out to me.

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5414

5/12/13 10:37:33 PM#39
Originally posted by austriacus
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by austriacus

When i say WoW im including its vanilla time. It was indeed less deep than games before it, thats why it rose in popularity so fast. By 2005 it had about 1 million subs,  unheard of at the time.

Rest exp, less downtime between fights,  lower death penalties etc, were the main contributions to this.

None of those things means it has less depth. Maybe that's where the disconnection is. You think that harsh death penalties, harsher leveling curves and more downtime between fight = depth. Depth requires that choices be made. In your examples, there are no choices to be made.

 

Wait... here, watch this: http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/depth-vs.-complexity

When you know after an encounter that you will recover HP quickly or that you will not take heavy loses after a death you are indeed taking less choices because theres less factors you have to consider for your next action

I watch extra credits religiously no need to point it out to me.

Ok, so we've reduced it to one thing. Health recovery. You are saying that slow health recovery has more depth than fast health recovery and that WoW has less depth than previous games because your health recovers faster than those games.

 

So lets use your example with a melee class. I would say that you actually have more actions to consider with fast health recovery. If your health recovers quickly, you can kill or wait. If your health recovers slowly, you can only wait. Under your conditions (which I personally don't think constitute depth), WoW has more depth.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  jacktors

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/16/11
Posts: 117

5/12/13 10:51:31 PM#40

So, the original post was asking for a recommendation for an MMORPG that could spark his interest. He liked Wrath of the Lich King in WOW, which is an example of his gameplay style.. This thread has turned into a WOW bashfest. 

Lets get back on topic.

I recommend waiting for 

Wildstar and The Elder Scrolls Online.

 I really do not see very many games with the storyline and depth that WOTLK gave us. But, Guildwars2 certainly has alot of good elements that could keep you very entertained until one of these other games launch. 

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