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EVE Online

EVE Online 

Jita (General)  » Would "gold battlecruisers" bring more casual players to eve ?

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241 posts found
  hfztt

Elite Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 692

5/15/13 5:22:38 PM#181
Originally posted by apanz3r
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Chillbilly

Step 1: Train up Planetary Interaction skills

Step 2: Gain passive income from your planets

Unless you are going out of your way to get blown up the ISK you make from Planetary Interaction should more than cover the cost of replacement ships.

There is your "Free" Battlecruiser, I know it sounds complicated, but if I can do it anybody can lol

http://www.eve-online-fan.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Eve_PI_Diagrams_v1_4.pdf

 

might seem complicated but it's not. start at bottom and follow the lines up.

Now this is indeed a constructive answer. Thank you very much.

Please indulge me with a question. Can this produce enough isk to replace 5-6 pvp ships per week  including t2 fitt (even if those ships are regular battle cruisers).


The Core of EVE is that when you enter combat, you ahve something on the line. If you COULD replace ships at that rate without any efford, there would be no real danger in eve, and the game experience changes completely. Death has a cost. Remove that cost and you kill the soul of the game. If you wnat not risk play WoW or similar. Dont try to turn EVE into something that other are doing far better.

Losses in EVE should be a pain. A pretty big one.

No other game I play can ever give me cold sweats like EVE still can after 10 years.  Real loss is the key to that. Gold ships goes directly against that, and is why I would oppose such a move.

  apanz3r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 281

 
OP  5/15/13 6:06:31 PM#182
Originally posted by sunshadow21
Originally posted by apanz3r


Be assured that eve is doing so well because is pretty much the only mmo in space and this is because the game industry moved away from the space genre. But it only takes 1-2 successes before the real sharks move the attention to the genre and you may see the success of world of tanks in space.

EVE is doing well because CCP has a clear vision of what they want to make, and they stick to it. Other space games may well come along that are equally successful, but they won't likely poach much of EVE's population because the only way they will be successful is by being different from EVE, and therefore, appeal to a different kind of player for the most part. Even if they do get the attention of EVE players, it will likely be because those players like both games, not because they are abandoning EVE for something else.

This was indeed a fun post to read.

"EVE is doing well because CCP has a clear vision of what they want to make, and they stick to it".

Walking in station 3d-avatar  eve needed it like fish needs bike.

w space, barely used by anyone

factional warfare  barely used by anyone

incursions - a major annoyance in 0.0 for aliances

 

The only vision ccp had was plex,  monocle and multi boxing

Now let's see what will result from the bastard child with sony - dust 514

  apanz3r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 281

 
OP  5/15/13 6:16:08 PM#183
Originally posted by Loktofeit

apanz3r, you're looking at it only from the side of combat. You seem to be under the impression that if people are given free ships more people will be out PvPing. Let's pretend for a moment that the cost of losing a ship is the main reason people who don't already PVP aren't PVPing. It damages the market for minerals, manufacturing and ships in general. The more popular your free ships are the more damage it is to the game economy because each free ship that is created from thin air is minerals that weren't expended, manufacturing that wasn't done and ships that weren't sold. It's also ships that weren't risked in the entire process and gameplay that is now less valuable or profitable.

You're not looking beyond "give everyone free ships and they'll go PVP." Listen to some of the EVE players here. I know you've been playing since domis in 0.0 or whatever your eCred was, but it is clear you really don't know the game. Re-read some of their posts because they're looking at the bigger picture here and they've been doing a good job of explaining it so far.

I'm not going to touch any of the other assumptions because they are exactly that, but in complete denial of actual math - like the fact that the Drake has been one of the top 10 flown ships since its release, and that's only one of the 12 Tech 1 battleships. Also not going to ask why you think veteran players are regularly PVPing in faction fit Tech 3 Cruisers.

You forget one thing: not all the ships will be the gold ones.  There will be lost normal ones too. And like i mentioned i would love to be in a bs gang takiong on one of those gangs. They may kill some of us but they will be decimate.

Result of battle : industry needs to replace the modules for everybody and the lost bses.

Now let's analyze your scenario: we all stay docked. Nobody have fun. Nobody build everythinh.

Please indulge me and tell me why the battles are so rare in eve in your opinion. You either gank somebody on gate or belt, you fight a blob or you have space holding fights.

And they can balance the gold ship making it a bit worse than drake.

>>Also not going to ask why you think veteran players are regularly PVPing in faction fit Tech 3 Cruisers.

first it wasn;t veteran but hardcore.

second: i was just ironic

3rd  there are special fittings that require faction fits for t3. no point to enter in this if you don;t know it

  apanz3r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 281

 
OP  5/15/13 6:25:10 PM#184
Originally posted by hfztt
Originally posted by apanz3r
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Chillbilly

Step 1: Train up Planetary Interaction skills

Step 2: Gain passive income from your planets

Unless you are going out of your way to get blown up the ISK you make from Planetary Interaction should more than cover the cost of replacement ships.

There is your "Free" Battlecruiser, I know it sounds complicated, but if I can do it anybody can lol

http://www.eve-online-fan.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Eve_PI_Diagrams_v1_4.pdf

 

might seem complicated but it's not. start at bottom and follow the lines up.

Now this is indeed a constructive answer. Thank you very much.

Please indulge me with a question. Can this produce enough isk to replace 5-6 pvp ships per week  including t2 fitt (even if those ships are regular battle cruisers).


The Core of EVE is that when you enter combat, you ahve something on the line. If you COULD replace ships at that rate without any efford, there would be no real danger in eve, and the game experience changes completely. Death has a cost. Remove that cost and you kill the soul of the game. If you wnat not risk play WoW or similar. Dont try to turn EVE into something that other are doing far better.

Losses in EVE should be a pain. A pretty big one.

No other game I play can ever give me cold sweats like EVE still can after 10 years.  Real loss is the key to that. Gold ships goes directly against that, and is why I would oppose such a move.


You lie yourself if you want that to have fun you need to risk something but half of the eve pvpers are playing world of tanks, a game that is 50 times bigger than eve. In world of tanks you don;t risk anything, you just have fun. (there are some death penality in certain casses)

  Silmapelikone

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/07
Posts: 134

5/15/13 6:30:52 PM#185
So called "gold ships" make absolutely no sense in a game like EVE. You worry about losses but at the same time you already have so many passive ways to make ISK more than enough to support your PvP.
  apanz3r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 281

 
OP  5/15/13 6:45:53 PM#186
Originally posted by adeptuz
So called "gold ships" make absolutely no sense in a game like EVE. You worry about losses but at the same time you already have so many passive ways to make ISK more than enough to support your PvP.

So far everybody who tried to conovince me that make no sense turned out to be carebear who only cared about his business and does pvp only when the alliance give him a free ship.

So how i can have passive incime in eve of about 1 bil/month to cover my pvp ?

  apanz3r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 281

 
OP  5/15/13 6:47:23 PM#187
Originally posted by NetSage
Originally posted by apanz3r
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Robokapp

that's not game design that needs changes, thats your playstyle that's inappropriate. 

I thought that was immediately obvious when he wanted to turn a hardcore game into a casual one.

fair enough.

Is ccp game and my money. I used to give them about 500eoros per year. Now i give this money to other company , including pledges for incoming games like star citizen and elite dangerous.

At the end of the day less money for ccp means less development for game.

Considering EVE is one of the few games that has sub numbers consistently increasing still I'm sure they'll be fine.

eve got to these numbers in 10 years and in conditions where everybody and his dog have 2-4 accounts it's pretty much the only aaa game on the market.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

5/15/13 6:48:48 PM#188
Originally posted by apanz3r

So far everybody who tried to conovince me that make no sense turned out to be carebear who only cared about his business and does pvp only when the alliance give him a free ship.

So how i can have passive incime in eve of about 1 bil/month to cover my pvp ?

You realize 70% of the players are in high sec right?

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

5/15/13 6:50:05 PM#189

It's just not a good idea. I'm not even sure it makes sense to even bother discussing the idea. There is nothing about Eve's game play that would lead anyone to think casual players would have fun in the game, free ships or no. Care bears, sure. Casuals? No. That doesn't even get into the effects of injecting unlimited, free resources into a closed economy or how pissy existing Eve players would get with a sudden influx of clowns running around crashing their ships into stuff.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  apanz3r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 281

 
OP  5/15/13 6:53:14 PM#190
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by apanz3r

So far everybody who tried to conovince me that make no sense turned out to be carebear who only cared about his business and does pvp only when the alliance give him a free ship.

So how i can have passive incime in eve of about 1 bil/month to cover my pvp ?

You realize 70% of the players are in high sec right?

I have to recognize that i missed this one, good point.

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3840

5/15/13 6:57:17 PM#191
Free ships are a daft idea for obvious reasons apparent to anyone who plays eve. 'Care bears' = people who want to pve, not get free pvp. Pvpers are not going to love mining because they get free shovels.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (10000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (600 runemaster/Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR

  apanz3r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 281

 
OP  5/15/13 6:57:36 PM#192
Originally posted by lizardbones

It's just not a good idea. I'm not even sure it makes sense to even bother discussing the idea. There is nothing about Eve's game play that would lead anyone to think casual players would have fun in the game, free ships or no. Care bears, sure. Casuals? No. That doesn't even get into the effects of injecting unlimited, free resources into a closed economy or how pissy existing Eve players would get with a sudden influx of clowns running around crashing their ships into stuff.

Casual play in 00 or low  sec.

Your alliance announce roam at   19:30 for next day.

You log in at 19:20 , you get your gold ship, you use the trash fitt that the ship may have or replace with a better one.

At 19:25 you undock and meet the gang

At 19:30 roam is leaving

At 20:00-20:15 you find another gang and shot each other. At 20:30 you lost your ship and head back to station in pod.

AT 20:45 you logout.

Next day: repeat

 

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4814

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/15/13 7:06:31 PM#193
Originally posted by apanz3r
Originally posted by lizardbones

It's just not a good idea. I'm not even sure it makes sense to even bother discussing the idea. There is nothing about Eve's game play that would lead anyone to think casual players would have fun in the game, free ships or no. Care bears, sure. Casuals? No. That doesn't even get into the effects of injecting unlimited, free resources into a closed economy or how pissy existing Eve players would get with a sudden influx of clowns running around crashing their ships into stuff.

Casual play in 00 or low  sec.

Your alliance announce roam at   19:30 for next day.

You log in at 19:20 , you get your gold ship, you use the trash fitt that the ship may have or replace with a better one.

At 19:25 you undock and meet the gang

At 19:30 roam is leaving

At 20:00-20:15 you find another gang and shot each other. At 20:30 you lost your ship and head back to station in pod.

AT 20:45 you logout.

Next day: repeat

 

that's your vision for eve ?

 

the pvp equivalent of raid-logging ?

 

you know there's dueling in eve now why do you need to pvp when you can duel and not lose anything ? you want to lose nothing...start dueling.

 

edit: what you describe is called a "Battleground".

  apanz3r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 281

 
OP  5/15/13 7:12:53 PM#194
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by apanz3r
Originally posted by lizardbones

It's just not a good idea. I'm not even sure it makes sense to even bother discussing the idea. There is nothing about Eve's game play that would lead anyone to think casual players would have fun in the game, free ships or no. Care bears, sure. Casuals? No. That doesn't even get into the effects of injecting unlimited, free resources into a closed economy or how pissy existing Eve players would get with a sudden influx of clowns running around crashing their ships into stuff.

Casual play in 00 or low  sec.

Your alliance announce roam at   19:30 for next day.

You log in at 19:20 , you get your gold ship, you use the trash fitt that the ship may have or replace with a better one.

At 19:25 you undock and meet the gang

At 19:30 roam is leaving

At 20:00-20:15 you find another gang and shot each other. At 20:30 you lost your ship and head back to station in pod.

AT 20:45 you logout.

Next day: repeat

 

that's your vision for eve ?

 

the pvp equivalent of raid-logging ?

 

you know there's dueling in eve now why do you need to pvp when you can duel and not lose anything ? you want to lose nothing...start dueling.


this is what i can afford considering that i have a demanding job and a family

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

5/15/13 7:14:39 PM#195


Originally posted by apanz3r

Originally posted by lizardbones It's just not a good idea. I'm not even sure it makes sense to even bother discussing the idea. There is nothing about Eve's game play that would lead anyone to think casual players would have fun in the game, free ships or no. Care bears, sure. Casuals? No. That doesn't even get into the effects of injecting unlimited, free resources into a closed economy or how pissy existing Eve players would get with a sudden influx of clowns running around crashing their ships into stuff.
Casual play in 00 or low  sec.

Your alliance announce roam at   19:30 for next day.

You log in at 19:20 , you get your gold ship, you use the trash fitt that the ship may have or replace with a better one.

At 19:25 you undock and meet the gang

At 19:30 roam is leaving

At 20:00-20:15 you find another gang and shot each other. At 20:30 you lost your ship and head back to station in pod.

AT 20:45 you logout.

Next day: repeat

 




That would be a small percentage of Eve's game play.

Progression in Eve involves playing for a long period of time. The players in the free ships will not progress by killing other ships, even if they are good at it. In WoT, progression is faster the better you are at killing other tanks. There is constant positive reinforcement to go out and destroy more tanks. Not so in Eve. Again, none of the systems in Eve are geared around casual game play.

Most players are in High Security space because what they want to do is mine, or play the economic side of the game. Those things are a huge part of the Eve universe. Roaming gangs of casual players would either disrupt that game play, or the roaming gangs would only fight each other, with no reward, because progression depends on time, not kills. If those roving gangs ran into a group of experienced players, they would just die.

Using the model you've outlined above, the casual players would never see or engage in any of Eve's other game play mechanics. The mechanics that make up what is arguably the majority of the game. The only thing those players would be good for is getting together in gangs and looking for fights. There's no follow up to the free ships thing. Some casual players would long in for awhile, then they'd leave the game.

It would make a lot more sense to make WoT in space. It would serve the same purpose and wouldn't disrupt an existing game's systems.

Also, not sure if anyone has noticed this or said it out loud, but this is a variation on the whole "add open world PvP to the PvE game" or "add a PvE only server to the PvP focused game". So it is at least a new variation on a common theme on this site.

** ** **

In the case of Eve, the core concept is "nothing is free, everything requires time or effort", and the idea is "add something for free that doesn't take effort".

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4814

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/15/13 7:14:50 PM#196
Originally posted by apanz3r

this is what i can afford considering that i have a demanding job and a family

okay. but the rest of us can afford more than this. No point ruining the game for us due to your demanding job and family. there's other MMOs that offer battlegrounds,including world of tanks.

 

why are you trying to mess eve up ? isn't that a little selfish ?

  apanz3r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 281

 
OP  5/15/13 7:20:45 PM#197
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by apanz3r

this is what i can afford considering that i have a demanding job and a family

okay. but the rest of us can afford more than this. No point ruining the game for us due to your demanding job and family. there's other MMOs that offer battlegrounds,including world of tanks.

 

why are you trying to mess eve up ? isn't that a little selfish ?

nothing gets ruined, i explained many times, you just refuse to accept. Actually it seems that you are not interested at all in pvp so i am not sure why you even bother with this issue.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4814

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

5/15/13 7:26:35 PM#198
Originally posted by apanz3r
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by apanz3r

this is what i can afford considering that i have a demanding job and a family

okay. but the rest of us can afford more than this. No point ruining the game for us due to your demanding job and family. there's other MMOs that offer battlegrounds,including world of tanks.

 

why are you trying to mess eve up ? isn't that a little selfish ?

nothing gets ruined, i explained many times, you just refuse to accept. Actually it seems that you are not interested at all in pvp so i am not sure why you even bother with this issue.

the poll asks "would gold battlecruisers bring more casual players to eve".

 

the poll has over 80% "NO".

 

I'm not sure on what ground you can keep arguing what to us sounds like an absurdity or why you think your reasoning behind it will ever be accepted when it will ruin gameplay at all levels.

 

i even bother with this issue because you'll ruin eve's economy, because you'll make attrition warfare impossible, because it violates basic game principles, because of slipery slope when that BC gets hard-countered, and because I'm reading how to improve pvp from a guy who loses a ship a day and gets podded every other day.

 

i'm sorry, op, but your idea is disturbing and disgusting to us. your job and family might ruin your game but I don't want them ruining mine as well.

 

 

  apanz3r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 281

 
OP  5/15/13 7:30:54 PM#199
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by apanz3r

Originally posted by lizardbones It's just not a good idea. I'm not even sure it makes sense to even bother discussing the idea. There is nothing about Eve's game play that would lead anyone to think casual players would have fun in the game, free ships or no. Care bears, sure. Casuals? No. That doesn't even get into the effects of injecting unlimited, free resources into a closed economy or how pissy existing Eve players would get with a sudden influx of clowns running around crashing their ships into stuff.
Casual play in 00 or low  sec.

 

Your alliance announce roam at   19:30 for next day.

You log in at 19:20 , you get your gold ship, you use the trash fitt that the ship may have or replace with a better one.

At 19:25 you undock and meet the gang

At 19:30 roam is leaving

At 20:00-20:15 you find another gang and shot each other. At 20:30 you lost your ship and head back to station in pod.

AT 20:45 you logout.

Next day: repeat

 




That would be a small percentage of Eve's game play.

Progression in Eve involves playing for a long period of time. The players in the free ships will not progress by killing other ships, even if they are good at it. In WoT, progression is faster the better you are at killing other tanks. There is constant positive reinforcement to go out and destroy more tanks. Not so in Eve. Again, none of the systems in Eve are geared around casual game play.

Most players are in High Security space because what they want to do is mine, or play the economic side of the game. Those things are a huge part of the Eve universe. Roaming gangs of casual players would either disrupt that game play, or the roaming gangs would only fight each other, with no reward, because progression depends on time, not kills. If those roving gangs ran into a group of experienced players, they would just die.

Using the model you've outlined above, the casual players would never see or engage in any of Eve's other game play mechanics. The mechanics that make up what is arguably the majority of the game. The only thing those players would be good for is getting together in gangs and looking for fights. There's no follow up to the free ships thing. Some casual players would long in for awhile, then they'd leave the game.

It would make a lot more sense to make WoT in space. It would serve the same purpose and wouldn't disrupt an existing game's systems.

Also, not sure if anyone has noticed this or said it out loud, but this is a variation on the whole "add open world PvP to the PvE game" or "add a PvE only server to the PvP focused game". So it is at least a new variation on a common theme on this site.

 


progression in eve ? lol

in eve only exists the right tool for the right job. you can have or not the (eve) skills to fly the stuff  and the human skiils to fly them.

what other mechanics ? mining ? hauling ? metagaming ? booting ? scamming ?

all eve is about  is predators and prey  , simple as that.

Some people(carebears)  imagine other mechanics because they don;t want to accept what they really are (prey).

From here all the hate for free pvp ships that can make their life even harder.

 

  apanz3r

Novice Member

Joined: 11/17/11
Posts: 281

 
OP  5/15/13 7:36:27 PM#200
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by apanz3r
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by apanz3r

this is what i can afford considering that i have a demanding job and a family

okay. but the rest of us can afford more than this. No point ruining the game for us due to your demanding job and family. there's other MMOs that offer battlegrounds,including world of tanks.

 

why are you trying to mess eve up ? isn't that a little selfish ?

nothing gets ruined, i explained many times, you just refuse to accept. Actually it seems that you are not interested at all in pvp so i am not sure why you even bother with this issue.

the poll asks "would gold battlecruisers bring more casual players to eve".

 

the poll has over 80% "NO".

 

I'm not sure on what ground you can keep arguing what to us sounds like an absurdity or why you think your reasoning behind it will ever be accepted when it will ruin gameplay at all levels.

 

i even bother with this issue because you'll ruin eve's economy, because you'll make attrition warfare impossible, because it violates basic game principles, because of slipery slope when that BC gets hard-countered, and because I'm reading how to improve pvp from a guy who loses a ship a day and gets podded every other day.

 

i'm sorry, op, but your idea is disturbing and disgusting to us. your job and family might ruin your game but I don't want them ruining mine as well.

 

 


funny enough the 80% no is close to the percentage of the carebears living in highsec and that are afraid that will become even more pray. Anything that can disturb their carebear life seems to disgust them.

You fail to provide any projection and model why would be bad, is it bad just because it is bad for YOU.

I used to love suicide ganking carebears in high sec, sometime just for their tears - their t3 ships with t2 fitt.

So be happy that ccp keep protecting you.

 

Attrition war with battlecruisers : LOL . Atrition war is for space holding and space holding is done with other ships.

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