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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » The problem with MMO's like Neverwinter...

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60 posts found
  simsalabim77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 617

5/11/13 7:38:25 PM#21
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Maelwydd
The problem with games today is players like the OP. Games are to have fun, to relax, enjoy a story, meet people and generally do things that games are for. All this 'end game' shit and the whole PvP'ers moaning about pay to win is the problem. Just play the damn game and have fun and if you can't just leave!

What you are describing is casual gaming. Not everyone is a casual gamer.

 

So casual gaming is for people who want to have fun, relax, and generally treat a game as a form of entertainment? To me that sounds like a person of sound mind. What are the traits that define a non-casual player? 

  Vannor

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2997

5/11/13 7:38:31 PM#22
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by sexypanda198
Originally posted by simsalabim77
If you commit? Commit what exactly? It's a F2P game. If you run out of content or stop having fun, then stop playing. Not like you're shackled to the game because you spent 'x' amount of time playing it already. 

Exactly so very true. Free to play so you lose zero. That is like someone offering free meal then complaining expecting something for the bad taste in your mouth. IT IS FREE suck it up and move on. If you dont pay money then dont expect the right to whine like baby.

You ever heard of time?

If you committed time to a game which turned out to be garbage then you have every right to complain. I am pretty sure it is part of the whole free speech thing and to my knowledge you dont need to spend a dime to use it.

It's not even about time. If someone gives you a free burger but it tastes like crap.. are you expected to say there's nothing wrong with it just because it was free? If it's crap, it's crap.. free or not.

I like NW btw.. so don't misinterpret that as a bash on the game. Just making a point. 

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

5/11/13 7:38:38 PM#23
Originally posted by kizan0601
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by xKopogerox

I got the feeling if I commit I'll end up stuck at endgame with nothing to do due to lack of content. On top the way it's headed with big raids and 5v5 I'll be depending on a community, which will limit me when and how much I can enjoy it.

It's been proven in the past that themepark designed MMORPG's without big revenue cannot maintain a steady content and endgame features.

ThemeParks cannot maintain a steady content, period. WoW is the only one that has, it is simply a flawed model for a sustained MMO and that is why virtually every MMO, again except WoW, have seen declining subs unless they give the game away and go F2P.

Eq1 has put out more content then WoW and Eq2 has put out just as much as WoW so no its not the only one that can.

Trion Worlds too has put out a lot of varied content for Rift.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

5/11/13 7:41:24 PM#24
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Maelwydd
The problem with games today is players like the OP. Games are to have fun, to relax, enjoy a story, meet people and generally do things that games are for. All this 'end game' shit and the whole PvP'ers moaning about pay to win is the problem. Just play the damn game and have fun and if you can't just leave!

What you are describing is casual gaming. Not everyone is a casual gamer.

 

So casual gaming is for people who want to have fun, relax, and generally treat a game as a form of entertainment? To me that sounds like a person of sound mind. What are the traits that define a non-casual player? 

I'm a Hardcore gamer I believe and you know what?I game for fun maybe not always relaxation but if a game is not fun why would I play it?I have in the past played MMOs longer than I've enjoyed them but due to the people I was gaming with not the game.

  austriacus

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 626

5/11/13 7:41:55 PM#25
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by sexypanda198
Originally posted by simsalabim77
If you commit? Commit what exactly? It's a F2P game. If you run out of content or stop having fun, then stop playing. Not like you're shackled to the game because you spent 'x' amount of time playing it already. 

Exactly so very true. Free to play so you lose zero. That is like someone offering free meal then complaining expecting something for the bad taste in your mouth. IT IS FREE suck it up and move on. If you dont pay money then dont expect the right to whine like baby.

You ever heard of time?

If you committed time to a game which turned out to be garbage then you have every right to complain. I am pretty sure it is part of the whole free speech thing and to my knowledge you dont need to spend a dime to use it.

While i agree with you, this two words are not true. USA consitution doesnt apply to the internet(not USA soil), anyone is free to censor you :P

  Vannor

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2997

5/11/13 7:42:13 PM#26
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Maelwydd
The problem with games today is players like the OP. Games are to have fun, to relax, enjoy a story, meet people and generally do things that games are for. All this 'end game' shit and the whole PvP'ers moaning about pay to win is the problem. Just play the damn game and have fun and if you can't just leave!

What you are describing is casual gaming. Not everyone is a casual gamer.

So casual gaming is for people who want to have fun, relax, and generally treat a game as a form of entertainment? To me that sounds like a person of sound mind. What are the traits that define a non-casual player? 

Someone who likes to have fun in competitive situations... much like playing sports. Your way is not the only way to have fun so please forgive others for not being holier than thou.

  simsalabim77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 617

5/11/13 7:46:59 PM#27
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Maelwydd
The problem with games today is players like the OP. Games are to have fun, to relax, enjoy a story, meet people and generally do things that games are for. All this 'end game' shit and the whole PvP'ers moaning about pay to win is the problem. Just play the damn game and have fun and if you can't just leave!

What you are describing is casual gaming. Not everyone is a casual gamer.

So casual gaming is for people who want to have fun, relax, and generally treat a game as a form of entertainment? To me that sounds like a person of sound mind. What are the traits that define a non-casual player? 

Someone who likes to have fun in competitive situations... much like playing sports. Your way is not the only way to have fun so please forgive others for not being holier than thou.

 

So non-casual plyayers enjoy competing in MMO's? That's what a hardcore player is? Casuals can enjoy competition as well. 

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

5/11/13 7:47:29 PM#28
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Maelwydd
The problem with games today is players like the OP. Games are to have fun, to relax, enjoy a story, meet people and generally do things that games are for. All this 'end game' shit and the whole PvP'ers moaning about pay to win is the problem. Just play the damn game and have fun and if you can't just leave!

What you are describing is casual gaming. Not everyone is a casual gamer.

So casual gaming is for people who want to have fun, relax, and generally treat a game as a form of entertainment? To me that sounds like a person of sound mind. What are the traits that define a non-casual player? 

Someone who likes to have fun in competitive situations... much like playing sports. Your way is not the only way to have fun so please forgive others for not being holier than thou.

I would say competition is a big part of MMOs and is what adds to the fun and extends the longevity of the game but it can only extend a  game that is fundamentally not fun at the end so far.

  Xthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2650

5/11/13 7:51:51 PM#29

If I find a mmo to be shallow, and the systems not designed well, then it is not fun and worth my time, no pvp or power gaming about it...

 

I like to play all aspects of a mmo, and if only 1 aspect is any good, then I am left with 1/4 or 1/3 of a game.  I do not demand this out of non-mmos, but I do a mmo, as I view them as being a 'world', not a lobby matchmaker, like LoL (which I play).  I expect LoL to be shallow.  Before it is type, "treat a lobby mmo, like you do LoL", doesn't work, as a lobby mmo tries to be more, so it is a jumble/mess imo.

 

It is all about quality/depth, not price, not f2p/b2p/p2p....I will pay for the quality/depth if need be (I prefer, but that is another debate).  Just because something is free doesn't make it worth playing.

 

  Vannor

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2997

5/11/13 7:52:36 PM#30
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Maelwydd
The problem with games today is players like the OP. Games are to have fun, to relax, enjoy a story, meet people and generally do things that games are for. All this 'end game' shit and the whole PvP'ers moaning about pay to win is the problem. Just play the damn game and have fun and if you can't just leave!

What you are describing is casual gaming. Not everyone is a casual gamer.

So casual gaming is for people who want to have fun, relax, and generally treat a game as a form of entertainment? To me that sounds like a person of sound mind. What are the traits that define a non-casual player? 

Someone who likes to have fun in competitive situations... much like playing sports. Your way is not the only way to have fun so please forgive others for not being holier than thou.

So non-casual plyayers enjoy competing in MMO's? That's what a hardcore player is? Casuals can enjoy competition as well. 

And hardcore players can enjoy exploring and just simple questing at times as well. Its just about priorities. A casual gamer might prioritise learning the lore, enjoying the atmosphere, having a social experience. A hardcore player would prioritise something like earning every achievement, getting world firsts or topping a PvP or Raid league. All kinds of players will still dabble in a bit everything sometimes though.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

5/11/13 8:02:01 PM#31
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by simsalabim77
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Maelwydd
The problem with games today is players like the OP. Games are to have fun, to relax, enjoy a story, meet people and generally do things that games are for. All this 'end game' shit and the whole PvP'ers moaning about pay to win is the problem. Just play the damn game and have fun and if you can't just leave!

What you are describing is casual gaming. Not everyone is a casual gamer.

So casual gaming is for people who want to have fun, relax, and generally treat a game as a form of entertainment? To me that sounds like a person of sound mind. What are the traits that define a non-casual player? 

Someone who likes to have fun in competitive situations... much like playing sports. Your way is not the only way to have fun so please forgive others for not being holier than thou.

So non-casual plyayers enjoy competing in MMO's? That's what a hardcore player is? Casuals can enjoy competition as well. 

And hardcore players can enjoy exploring and just simple questing at times as well. Its just about priorities. A casual gamer might prioritise learning the lore, enjoying the atmosphere, having a social experience. A hardcore player would prioritise something like earning every achievement, getting world firsts or topping a PvP or Raid league. All kinds of players will still dabble in a bit everything sometimes though.

In my hardcore experience I did dabble in non competitive stuff in between competitive stuff but even that stuff was to further improve my character for the main stuff or to grind funds to improve my character.

Of course these days you can bypass all of that by opening your wallet and are encouraged strongly to do so by the games.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3737

RIP City of Heroes!

5/11/13 8:10:54 PM#32
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by sexypanda198
Originally posted by simsalabim77
If you commit? Commit what exactly? It's a F2P game. If you run out of content or stop having fun, then stop playing. Not like you're shackled to the game because you spent 'x' amount of time playing it already. 

Exactly so very true. Free to play so you lose zero. That is like someone offering free meal then complaining expecting something for the bad taste in your mouth. IT IS FREE suck it up and move on. If you dont pay money then dont expect the right to whine like baby.

You ever heard of time?

If you committed time to a game which turned out to be garbage then you have every right to complain. I am pretty sure it is part of the whole free speech thing and to my knowledge you dont need to spend a dime to use it.

It's not even about time. If someone gives you a free burger but it tastes like crap.. are you expected to say there's nothing wrong with it just because it was free? If it's crap, it's crap.. free or not.

I like NW btw.. so don't misinterpret that as a bash on the game. Just making a point. 

 Sounds like beggars can be choosers?

  Vannor

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2997

5/11/13 8:57:51 PM#33
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Vannor
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by sexypanda198
Originally posted by simsalabim77
If you commit? Commit what exactly? It's a F2P game. If you run out of content or stop having fun, then stop playing. Not like you're shackled to the game because you spent 'x' amount of time playing it already. 

Exactly so very true. Free to play so you lose zero. That is like someone offering free meal then complaining expecting something for the bad taste in your mouth. IT IS FREE suck it up and move on. If you dont pay money then dont expect the right to whine like baby.

You ever heard of time?

If you committed time to a game which turned out to be garbage then you have every right to complain. I am pretty sure it is part of the whole free speech thing and to my knowledge you dont need to spend a dime to use it.

It's not even about time. If someone gives you a free burger but it tastes like crap.. are you expected to say there's nothing wrong with it just because it was free? If it's crap, it's crap.. free or not.

I like NW btw.. so don't misinterpret that as a bash on the game. Just making a point. 

 Sounds like beggars can be choosers?

They'll still eat the burger.. but it's still a crap burger.

There is a lot of free burgers out there to choose from these days though....

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3158

5/11/13 9:01:04 PM#34

It's an MMO, there should be no such thing as an endgame.  "Endgame" is a made up term for content carnivores that eat it up then cry about how there isn't enough of it.  The only time in an MMO there should be an endgame is when they're shutting down the servers forever.  People just don't read the texts anymore, heck in most new games you don't even have to read, just listen lol.  I got booted from a group in MD because I was reading a lore object lol...no wonder people don't have fun in MMOs...MMOs never end, so why are you rushing to the "endgame"?  MMOs always have been, and always will be, about the journey, not the destination.  Players and Developers alike would do well to remember that.

 

Edit: Anyone who says this isn't a D&D game doesn't read the text or the millions of lore objects everywhere.  It might not roll dice and calculate like P&P, but it is set very well in the lore of D&D.  Just because you ran through the quests just killing this, killing that, doesn't mean it's not D&D.  It's like playing P&P, without any narration or a DM...which would be horrible...my advice to any player playing just about any MMO is to slow it down, take your time, and enjoy the lore.  Rushing gets you nowhere, but the next MMO.

  Deznts

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/05
Posts: 168

5/11/13 9:10:57 PM#35
Originally posted by Gravarg

It's an MMO, there should be no such thing as an endgame.  "Endgame" is a made up term for content carnivores that eat it up then cry about how there isn't enough of it.  The only time in an MMO there should be an endgame is when they're shutting down the servers forever.  People just don't read the texts anymore, heck in most new games you don't even have to read, just listen lol.  I got booted from a group in MD because I was reading a lore object lol...no wonder people don't have fun in MMOs...MMOs never end, so why are you rushing to the "endgame"?  MMOs always have been, and always will be, about the journey, not the destination.  Players and Developers alike would do well to remember that.

 

Edit: Anyone who says this isn't a D&D game doesn't read the text or the millions of lore objects everywhere.  It might not roll dice and calculate like P&P, but it is set very well in the lore of D&D.  Just because you ran through the quests just killing this, killing that, doesn't mean it's not D&D.  It's like playing P&P, without any narration or a DM...which would be horrible...my advice to any player playing just about any MMO is to slow it down, take your time, and enjoy the lore.  Rushing gets you nowhere, but the next MMO.

It's fine if you don't like "end game", but I see way too much negativity regarding it. Would you rather play an mmo that scrolled the credits and logged you out when you hit level cap? Get over yourself

  sado2020

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/10
Posts: 112

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is my PVP

5/11/13 9:18:11 PM#36
Originally posted by Deznts
Originally posted by Gravarg

It's an MMO, there should be no such thing as an endgame.  "Endgame" is a made up term for content carnivores that eat it up then cry about how there isn't enough of it.  The only time in an MMO there should be an endgame is when they're shutting down the servers forever.  People just don't read the texts anymore, heck in most new games you don't even have to read, just listen lol.  I got booted from a group in MD because I was reading a lore object lol...no wonder people don't have fun in MMOs...MMOs never end, so why are you rushing to the "endgame"?  MMOs always have been, and always will be, about the journey, not the destination.  Players and Developers alike would do well to remember that.

 

Edit: Anyone who says this isn't a D&D game doesn't read the text or the millions of lore objects everywhere.  It might not roll dice and calculate like P&P, but it is set very well in the lore of D&D.  Just because you ran through the quests just killing this, killing that, doesn't mean it's not D&D.  It's like playing P&P, without any narration or a DM...which would be horrible...my advice to any player playing just about any MMO is to slow it down, take your time, and enjoy the lore.  Rushing gets you nowhere, but the next MMO.

It's fine if you don't like "end game", but I see way too much negativity regarding it. Would you rather play an mmo that scrolled the credits and logged you out when you hit level cap? Get over yourself

 

 

The only thing Im not really liking about endgame nowadays in games is that it falls in one of three categories; Raiding, PVP, or Solo Daily Quests (which all fall into the same lines of kill 100 of these or harvest 50 of these).  While I like all of those things and the idea of an "endgame" it just seems things have gotten too constricting.  Now Im not that creative to offer ideas on that and how to change it those are just my feelings on the situation.

 

As to the mentioned stigma about endgame, for me alot of it revolved around gearscores in WoW and how endgame just became another item consumption at an even more frantic pace. 

Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO

  Tyvolus4

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 184

5/11/13 9:21:55 PM#37
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by xKopogerox

I got the feeling if I commit I'll end up stuck at endgame with nothing to do due to lack of content. On top the way it's headed with big raids and 5v5 I'll be depending on a community, which will limit me when and how much I can enjoy it.

It's been proven in the past that themepark designed MMORPG's without big revenue cannot maintain a steady content and endgame features.

ThemeParks cannot maintain a steady content, period. WoW is the only one that has, it is simply a flawed model for a sustained MMO and that is why virtually every MMO, again except WoW, have seen declining subs unless they give the game away and go F2P.

 I hope you don't consider EQ or EQ 2 themeparks.  because wow and blizz could learn a thing or 2 about steady content from SOE.    oh and wow sucks.

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5631

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

5/11/13 9:25:19 PM#38

A lot of People really need to change the way they see mmo gaming in order to have a better gaming experience.

 

Play the game for the journey. If by the time you reach the so called endgame you like what they offer at level cap then decide if you want to stick to the game at level cap for a long time. Dont just go playing every single mmo with the long term endgame pro raiding mentality from level 1.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  flizzer

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1236

5/11/13 9:34:39 PM#39

Im currently playing Neverwinter and figuring out how long I'll be around.  It seems the end-game is where spending money becomes more of an issue.  So for me I will probably level to cap with my cleric and maybe another character or two and then consider I finished the game and move on. In these type of games I find the leveling is the  game and the end game really is the "end of the game"  for me.  Just doing the same dungeons doesnt interest me at endgame.  The Foundry does hold out hope, although people are saying a maxed character who does Foundry quests has a hard time, not sure about any of that yet but will see soon I guess.

 

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1462

5/11/13 9:38:05 PM#40
Originally posted by SoulStain
I hate end-game in mmos..the raids and pvp that is expected to keep us entertained forever. An mmo's endgame for me is usually going to play different mmo.

It's funny, because I hate leveling in an MMO.  To me that would be time better spent on a single player game with a significantly better storyline and gameplay.  I can't even fathom why anyone would play an MMO if not for endgame, and especially purely to level.  To each their own I guess.

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