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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » 2M F2P vs. 1.7M Reconciling the numbers.

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51 posts found
  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1187

 
OP  5/11/13 8:17:32 AM#21
Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by Scalpless

Originally posted by Skooma2 Allow me to state at the outset that I am not a troll.  I have a question that perhaps can be answered by the community.   Why do any of you care how many subs a particular MMO has?  Unless you are 1) playing a game teetering on the edge of a shutdown cliff,or, 2) are a shareholder of the company at issue,  what possible difference can a game's sub numbers mean to you?
Generally, the sub numbers and cash shop sales affect an MMO's budget, so a game that's doing great will have more updates than a game that's barely alive. If TOR's sub numbers keep falling and F2P fails to make up for it, Makeb may be the last big update it gets.

EA also announced that revenue is up.

 


So, either the next update will be bigger than Makeb or EA will just pocket the cash and future updates will be similar in scope.

Yep.

 

To be fair though it does depends on what Makeb cost. They probably spent capital - i.e. new money as opposed to revenue to produce Makeb. And some of Makeb may have been finished before staff were cut. 

Execs did say that the next update would depend on Makeb however so if Makeb has sold around 500k (based on above numbers) then its revenue would be $5M and - allowing for EA's gross profit target of 70% - that would set the budget for the next update at $3M.

If 300k people resubbed to get Makeb then a more accurate number for Makeb's revenue would be $9.5M - which would support a higher budget of c. $5M. Would depend on how EA count things.

A budget of $3-5M is not to shabby however and would support a reasonable headcount.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1187

 
OP  5/11/13 8:38:29 AM#22
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by simplius

if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

 

If I log into TOR I can see server load on the server screen and when I play I can /who for all players playing, it takes a bit more effort but I last did it (yes I'm sad) when i recently resubbed to TOR after a 8 month absence. Server, The Progenitor RP server EU,  server load Heavy, the player concurrent logins on server, 4598, both factions counted Sunday evening peak time. Every Planet has how many players are on the planet in the top left corner with friends and guildies online, you can search OP's, FP's, WZ's, class, race etc.. can you do that in EvE? The info is there for all to see if you want to, so do you want to its free?

 

NEXT!

err .. yes. You do know how many servers and instances Eve has yes? CCP also produce regular figures for "subs" - and like Blizzard they count an active monthly game card as a sub.

EA brings comments about its numbers upon itself. As tiefighter25 mentioned last February EA announced in their quarterly report that SWTOR had 1.7M subscribers but in March revealed that "just about half of those" were in their free month. Now counted people in their free month is fine but that wasn't how EA pitched the number. Then last summer they gave all subscribers a free month - which almost certainly resulted in their 1M to 500k count. They had padded the number but were legally obligated not to mislead investors - which they would have done if they had suggested that the game back then still had 1M.

And now at the end of March Bioware said they had 2M new F2P accounts and yet this week they only have 1.7M. Can they not count?

I have suggested a simple explanation for the difference; the alternative is that Bioware are in the business of being very creative ... with their numbers.

  Sulaa

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/11
Posts: 830

5/11/13 1:37:17 PM#23

I had one Swtor account from beta  and a second account made after Swtor went freemium (forgot password and secret question to first account)  - when I tried to check if it's good enough to play it like single player game for free.     So 2 accounts that did not bring even one cent and will not bring EA any money ever,  those accounts even have not attracted other players to spend money since I was using them for short time, at odd hours and not groping. 

I wonder how many of those 2 mln accounts are accounts like that - created and dumped after few hours or few days.

 

Companies that use f2p, freemium of b2p+cs model for their MMOs need to start providing average PCU (peak concurrent users) per month in official investor reports - like many Asian companies on Asian f2p market.    All those "combined account numbers" is an informateion that barely tell anything.     There are browser games that were closed down because of low revenues - that had millions of created accounts. 

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 978

5/11/13 1:39:04 PM#24
they should try, and put some of that "creativity" in their games instead
  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

5/11/13 1:41:25 PM#25
The cross street nearest to my house has over 100,000 users. I just looked out there and saw 3 cars. The F2P account population counting is ridiculously irrelevent.  

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 978

5/11/13 1:50:24 PM#26
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by simplius

if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

 

If I log into TOR I can see server load on the server screen and when I play I can /who for all players playing, it takes a bit more effort but I last did it (yes I'm sad) when i recently resubbed to TOR after a 8 month absence. Server, The Progenitor RP server EU,  server load Heavy, the player concurrent logins on server, 4598, both factions counted Sunday evening peak time. Every Planet has how many players are on the planet in the top left corner with friends and guildies online, you can search OP's, FP's, WZ's, class, race etc.. can you do that in EvE? The info is there for all to see if you want to, so do you want to its free?

 

NEXT!

no thanx, im a carebear, so i dont play EVE

but i do have higher confidence in ccp numbers, than in those from EA

hell,,at this point,,i would believe in hitler, rather than EA

 

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5105

5/11/13 1:55:05 PM#27
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by simplius

if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

 

If I log into TOR I can see server load on the server screen and when I play I can /who for all players playing, it takes a bit more effort but I last did it (yes I'm sad) when i recently resubbed to TOR after a 8 month absence. Server, The Progenitor RP server EU,  server load Heavy, the player concurrent logins on server, 4598, both factions counted Sunday evening peak time. Every Planet has how many players are on the planet in the top left corner with friends and guildies online, you can search OP's, FP's, WZ's, class, race etc.. can you do that in EvE? The info is there for all to see if you want to, so do you want to its free?

 

NEXT!

err .. yes. You do know how many servers and instances Eve has yes? CCP also produce regular figures for "subs" - and like Blizzard they count an active monthly game card as a sub.

EA brings comments about its numbers upon itself. As tiefighter25 mentioned last February EA announced in their quarterly report that SWTOR had 1.7M subscribers but in March revealed that "just about half of those" were in their free month. Now counted people in their free month is fine but that wasn't how EA pitched the number. Then last summer they gave all subscribers a free month - which almost certainly resulted in their 1M to 500k count. They had padded the number but were legally obligated not to mislead investors - which they would have done if they had suggested that the game back then still had 1M.

And now at the end of March Bioware said they had 2M new F2P accounts and yet this week they only have 1.7M. Can they not count?

I have suggested a simple explanation for the difference; the alternative is that Bioware are in the business of being very creative ... with their numbers.

The thing about Eve only having 1 server kind of takes the guesswork out of it when it tells you exactly how many players are online in the game when you log in (about 30 mins ago just over 49,000)  you don't need to check planets, although if you did, you'd be counting the dust players, and i think overall theres about 4,000 of them, total that is (including the offline players )

as for the f2p accounts in SW;TOR, they don't tend to generate any revenue, so does it matter if there are 1.7 million or 17 million of them..  0 multiplied by x amount of players is still.. 0..

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3714

RIP City of Heroes!

5/11/13 2:23:45 PM#28
Originally posted by gervaise1

EA announced 1.7M new F2P accounts in their quarterly results. This has to be accurate.

But towards the end of March Bioware revealed that they had 2M new F2P accounts.

Assuming that Bioware were being truthful the only way I can reconcile the two numbers is if 300k F2P accounts became subscribers in April when Makeb came out. (The $10 discount being close to the cost of a 1 month sub).

As EA also said that the game had "just under 500k" this would also mean that prior to Makeb the game had c. 200k subs.

NOTE: only assumption here is that Bioware were telling the truth.

 

EA also said that since they went F2P they had doubled their monthly revenue.

ASSUMPTION:  the game had 200k subs prior to going F2P and an average of 200k from December through March.

- So: pre-F2P revenue would have been c. 200k x $15 or $3M / month.

- For December through March revenue would have been (200k x $15) + cash shop. Or $12M + cash shop over 4 months.

- In April revenue jumps to: Subs: 500k x $15; Makeb purchases: 500kk x $10. Or $12.5M + cash shop.

- Total revenue in 5 months: $24.5M + cash shop or a monthly average of $4.9M + cash shop.

So doubling their revenue would mean that the cash shop would have to have generated (at least) $5.5M in 5 months. $1M per month average. 50c. a month based on 2M accounts or $10 over 5 months based on 100k people paying. (Zynga's metrics suggest that only 5% of F2P account pay anything, most play for free!).

So this works with what EA and Bioware have said.

 

TWEAK: the game probably lost some subscribers after it went F2P. If it had c. 260k prior to going F2P then this would have been $4M revenue per month. And to double revenue EA would have to have made $15.5M from the cash shop in 5 months. Say $3M per month or an average of $1.50 based on 2M accounts per month or $30 total from 100k users. Probably something between the two extremes: F2P accounts spending $5 to get preferred and then others buying packs etc.

 

I think I am happy with the number of subs dropping when the game went F2P and the cash shop bringing in more money but these sort of numbers seem to work with what Bioware and EA have said.

 What is the point of your thread?  Is it just another hate thread??????

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

5/11/13 3:05:57 PM#29
Originally posted by waynejr2
What is the point of your thread?  Is it just another hate thread??????

I think he was trying to rationalize how 2 million new FTP accounts suddenly became 1.7 million new FTP accounts.

I guess he hates a 300,000 headcount discrepancy.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1658

5/11/13 3:28:35 PM#30
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by simplius

if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

 

If I log into TOR I can see server load on the server screen and when I play I can /who for all players playing, it takes a bit more effort but I last did it (yes I'm sad) when i recently resubbed to TOR after a 8 month absence. Server, The Progenitor RP server EU,  server load Heavy, the player concurrent logins on server, 4598, both factions counted Sunday evening peak time. Every Planet has how many players are on the planet in the top left corner with friends and guildies online, you can search OP's, FP's, WZ's, class, race etc.. can you do that in EvE? The info is there for all to see if you want to, so do you want to its free?

 

NEXT!

err .. yes. You do know how many servers and instances Eve has yes? CCP also produce regular figures for "subs" - and like Blizzard they count an active monthly game card as a sub.

EA brings comments about its numbers upon itself. As tiefighter25 mentioned last February EA announced in their quarterly report that SWTOR had 1.7M subscribers but in March revealed that "just about half of those" were in their free month. Now counted people in their free month is fine but that wasn't how EA pitched the number. Then last summer they gave all subscribers a free month - which almost certainly resulted in their 1M to 500k count. They had padded the number but were legally obligated not to mislead investors - which they would have done if they had suggested that the game back then still had 1M.

And now at the end of March Bioware said they had 2M new F2P accounts and yet this week they only have 1.7M. Can they not count?

I have suggested a simple explanation for the difference; the alternative is that Bioware are in the business of being very creative ... with their numbers.

 

Your post is irrelevant, my post has actual numbers taken from the games /who lists which can be corroborated by parsing them to your guildies who are online. The post is refuting the post quoted with actual data that is all it is, so I'm not sure why you quoted me. 

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1658

5/11/13 3:36:26 PM#31
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by simplius

if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

 

If I log into TOR I can see server load on the server screen and when I play I can /who for all players playing, it takes a bit more effort but I last did it (yes I'm sad) when i recently resubbed to TOR after a 8 month absence. Server, The Progenitor RP server EU,  server load Heavy, the player concurrent logins on server, 4598, both factions counted Sunday evening peak time. Every Planet has how many players are on the planet in the top left corner with friends and guildies online, you can search OP's, FP's, WZ's, class, race etc.. can you do that in EvE? The info is there for all to see if you want to, so do you want to its free?

 

NEXT!

no thanx, im a carebear, so i dont play EVE

but i do have higher confidence in ccp numbers, than in those from EA

hell,,at this point,,i would believe in hitler, rather than EA

 

A free MMO that allows you to /who all players on the server, seems like someone is truly a carebear and a keyboard warrior to boot. Your inference and Ref Minor's that you can find out the amount of players on Tranquility and not any of EA's TOR servers has been found out to be not true and this is all you can come up with.

 

"hell,,at this point,,i would believe in hitler, rather than EA"

Also it is this...

"Hell, at this point I would rather believe in Hitler, than EA"

 

The information is there for all to see.

 

NEXT!

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1658

5/11/13 3:41:38 PM#32
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by simplius

if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

 

If I log into TOR I can see server load on the server screen and when I play I can /who for all players playing, it takes a bit more effort but I last did it (yes I'm sad) when i recently resubbed to TOR after a 8 month absence. Server, The Progenitor RP server EU,  server load Heavy, the player concurrent logins on server, 4598, both factions counted Sunday evening peak time. Every Planet has how many players are on the planet in the top left corner with friends and guildies online, you can search OP's, FP's, WZ's, class, race etc.. can you do that in EvE? The info is there for all to see if you want to, so do you want to its free?

 

NEXT!

err .. yes. You do know how many servers and instances Eve has yes? CCP also produce regular figures for "subs" - and like Blizzard they count an active monthly game card as a sub.

EA brings comments about its numbers upon itself. As tiefighter25 mentioned last February EA announced in their quarterly report that SWTOR had 1.7M subscribers but in March revealed that "just about half of those" were in their free month. Now counted people in their free month is fine but that wasn't how EA pitched the number. Then last summer they gave all subscribers a free month - which almost certainly resulted in their 1M to 500k count. They had padded the number but were legally obligated not to mislead investors - which they would have done if they had suggested that the game back then still had 1M.

And now at the end of March Bioware said they had 2M new F2P accounts and yet this week they only have 1.7M. Can they not count?

I have suggested a simple explanation for the difference; the alternative is that Bioware are in the business of being very creative ... with their numbers.

The thing about Eve only having 1 server kind of takes the guesswork out of it when it tells you exactly how many players are online in the game when you log in (about 30 mins ago just over 49,000)  you don't need to check planets, although if you did, you'd be counting the dust players, and i think overall theres about 4,000 of them, total that is (including the offline players )

as for the f2p accounts in SW;TOR, they don't tend to generate any revenue, so does it matter if there are 1.7 million or 17 million of them..  0 multiplied by x amount of players is still.. 0..

 

How many players supplement their subs with Plex? By what nuymber do you multiply 49k with to get at the actual sub number?  How many EvE players have multiple accounts? How many play on the Chinese server and buy multiple gamecards that are counted as multiple subs? Blizzard has been accused of this practice for years to fudge their numbers. There is as much guesswork with EvE as with any other MMO. Keep spinning guys.

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10429

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

5/11/13 4:47:13 PM#33

 

[mod edit]


You are obviously new here. The answer is, "Nope".

 

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3541

Hipster

5/11/13 4:47:30 PM#34
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by simplius

if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

 

If I log into TOR I can see server load on the server screen and when I play I can /who for all players playing, it takes a bit more effort but I last did it (yes I'm sad) when i recently resubbed to TOR after a 8 month absence. Server, The Progenitor RP server EU,  server load Heavy, the player concurrent logins on server, 4598, both factions counted Sunday evening peak time. Every Planet has how many players are on the planet in the top left corner with friends and guildies online, you can search OP's, FP's, WZ's, class, race etc.. can you do that in EvE? The info is there for all to see if you want to, so do you want to its free?

 

NEXT!

err .. yes. You do know how many servers and instances Eve has yes? CCP also produce regular figures for "subs" - and like Blizzard they count an active monthly game card as a sub.

EA brings comments about its numbers upon itself. As tiefighter25 mentioned last February EA announced in their quarterly report that SWTOR had 1.7M subscribers but in March revealed that "just about half of those" were in their free month. Now counted people in their free month is fine but that wasn't how EA pitched the number. Then last summer they gave all subscribers a free month - which almost certainly resulted in their 1M to 500k count. They had padded the number but were legally obligated not to mislead investors - which they would have done if they had suggested that the game back then still had 1M.

And now at the end of March Bioware said they had 2M new F2P accounts and yet this week they only have 1.7M. Can they not count?

I have suggested a simple explanation for the difference; the alternative is that Bioware are in the business of being very creative ... with their numbers.

The thing about Eve only having 1 server kind of takes the guesswork out of it when it tells you exactly how many players are online in the game when you log in (about 30 mins ago just over 49,000)  you don't need to check planets, although if you did, you'd be counting the dust players, and i think overall theres about 4,000 of them, total that is (including the offline players )

as for the f2p accounts in SW;TOR, they don't tend to generate any revenue, so does it matter if there are 1.7 million or 17 million of them..  0 multiplied by x amount of players is still.. 0..

 

How many players supplement their subs with Plex? By what nuymber do you multiply 49k with to get at the actual sub number?  How many EvE players have multiple accounts? How many play on the Chinese server and buy multiple gamecards that are counted as multiple subs? Blizzard has been accused of this practice for years to fudge their numbers. There is as much guesswork with EvE as with any other MMO. Keep spinning guys.

The Chinese game cards are usable on multiple games not just EvE, they would therefore only be counted when activated against an EvE account, similar to how a subscription would count once payment is made against an account. I believe there is just over 100k Chinese subs. I can't tell you how many Japanese subs there are, or Russian or US or EU, nationality doesn't matter, a monthly sub is a monthly sub.

Why is Plex relevant? If I purchase a Plex and sell it for credits and the buyer pays for their subscription with it, why on earth would it count differently than if my Auntie bought me a gametime card for WoW vs a regular WoW subscription

  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

5/11/13 4:52:41 PM#35
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by ninjapy
WTF, who gives a shit. Can't people just play a game anymore and not have a need to ANALyze shit that means nothing to them what so ever.



You are obviously new here. The answer is, "Nope".

 

The forums would be pretty damn dead without the hair-splitting.

  simsalabim77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/27/13
Posts: 613

5/11/13 5:28:24 PM#36
Originally posted by Skooma2

Allow me to state at the outset that I am not a troll.  I have a question that perhaps can be answered by the community.

 

Why do any of you care how many subs a particular MMO has?  Unless you are 1) playing a game teetering on the edge of a shutdown cliff,or, 2) are a shareholder of the company at issue,  what possible difference can a game's sub numbers mean to you?

 

People want their choice of entertainment vindicated for some weird reason. I don't understand why, but I'm guessing those people don't have much going on for them IRL.

People can't play games because they enjoy it. That's freaking crazy talk!

First you have to find out how popular the game is, then look at stock prices for the publisher. After that, you head to the forums to see what complete strangers think of the game. After that, you look at Raptr and Xfire for reasons unknown; maybe check out Amazon reviews and Metacritic while you're at it. Next, maybe you're finally close to deciding whether or not you can enjoy the game, but first you have to analyze every aspect of the game and compare it against a game that you still love but refuse to play because it's too old. 

It's really not that damn complicated. Are you enjoying the game? If so, continue playing it. If you're not, then quit and move on with your life.

Sorry for the rant. 

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1658

5/11/13 5:36:35 PM#37
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by simplius

if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

 

If I log into TOR I can see server load on the server screen and when I play I can /who for all players playing, it takes a bit more effort but I last did it (yes I'm sad) when i recently resubbed to TOR after a 8 month absence. Server, The Progenitor RP server EU,  server load Heavy, the player concurrent logins on server, 4598, both factions counted Sunday evening peak time. Every Planet has how many players are on the planet in the top left corner with friends and guildies online, you can search OP's, FP's, WZ's, class, race etc.. can you do that in EvE? The info is there for all to see if you want to, so do you want to its free?

 

NEXT!

err .. yes. You do know how many servers and instances Eve has yes? CCP also produce regular figures for "subs" - and like Blizzard they count an active monthly game card as a sub.

EA brings comments about its numbers upon itself. As tiefighter25 mentioned last February EA announced in their quarterly report that SWTOR had 1.7M subscribers but in March revealed that "just about half of those" were in their free month. Now counted people in their free month is fine but that wasn't how EA pitched the number. Then last summer they gave all subscribers a free month - which almost certainly resulted in their 1M to 500k count. They had padded the number but were legally obligated not to mislead investors - which they would have done if they had suggested that the game back then still had 1M.

And now at the end of March Bioware said they had 2M new F2P accounts and yet this week they only have 1.7M. Can they not count?

I have suggested a simple explanation for the difference; the alternative is that Bioware are in the business of being very creative ... with their numbers.

The thing about Eve only having 1 server kind of takes the guesswork out of it when it tells you exactly how many players are online in the game when you log in (about 30 mins ago just over 49,000)  you don't need to check planets, although if you did, you'd be counting the dust players, and i think overall theres about 4,000 of them, total that is (including the offline players )

as for the f2p accounts in SW;TOR, they don't tend to generate any revenue, so does it matter if there are 1.7 million or 17 million of them..  0 multiplied by x amount of players is still.. 0..

 

How many players supplement their subs with Plex? By what nuymber do you multiply 49k with to get at the actual sub number?  How many EvE players have multiple accounts? How many play on the Chinese server and buy multiple gamecards that are counted as multiple subs? Blizzard has been accused of this practice for years to fudge their numbers. There is as much guesswork with EvE as with any other MMO. Keep spinning guys.

The Chinese game cards are usable on multiple games not just EvE, they would therefore only be counted when activated against an EvE account, similar to how a subscription would count once payment is made against an account. I believe there is just over 100k Chinese subs. I can't tell you how many Japanese subs there are, or Russian or US or EU, nationality doesn't matter, a monthly sub is a monthly sub.

Why is Plex relevant? If I purchase a Plex and sell it for credits and the buyer pays for their subscription with it, why on earth would it count differently than if my Auntie bought me a gametime card for WoW vs a regular WoW subscription

 

Thanks for answering those two questions I wondered where you were. Plex is relevant as it is a way for subscribers with multiple accounts to pay for their alt accounts, which puts into question how many individual accounts EvE has. EvE is a game that only allows the leveling of one character per account so in order to play EvE effectively you really need multiple accounts and puts questions to the actual nature of all those 500k accounts. So you believe there to be 100k Chinese accounts? So.. There is as much guesswork with EvE as with any other MMO. You are making the claim that CCP are more transparent about their playerbase than EA which is clearly wrong.

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Antiquated

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 479

5/11/13 5:37:23 PM#38
Originally posted by simsalabim77

People can't play games because they enjoy it. That's freaking crazy talk!

It's a classic attack, ye olden subs argument.

Not quite sure why; by this point, more/most players should have encountered a "lesser" title (not one of the current, say, five biggest), a "niche" game that they personally enjoyed playing?

May be the one and only way to break a Popularity True Believer out of the habit, I suppose.
  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3541

Hipster

5/11/13 6:15:25 PM#39
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by simplius

if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

 

If I log into TOR I can see server load on the server screen and when I play I can /who for all players playing, it takes a bit more effort but I last did it (yes I'm sad) when i recently resubbed to TOR after a 8 month absence. Server, The Progenitor RP server EU,  server load Heavy, the player concurrent logins on server, 4598, both factions counted Sunday evening peak time. Every Planet has how many players are on the planet in the top left corner with friends and guildies online, you can search OP's, FP's, WZ's, class, race etc.. can you do that in EvE? The info is there for all to see if you want to, so do you want to its free?

 

NEXT!

err .. yes. You do know how many servers and instances Eve has yes? CCP also produce regular figures for "subs" - and like Blizzard they count an active monthly game card as a sub.

EA brings comments about its numbers upon itself. As tiefighter25 mentioned last February EA announced in their quarterly report that SWTOR had 1.7M subscribers but in March revealed that "just about half of those" were in their free month. Now counted people in their free month is fine but that wasn't how EA pitched the number. Then last summer they gave all subscribers a free month - which almost certainly resulted in their 1M to 500k count. They had padded the number but were legally obligated not to mislead investors - which they would have done if they had suggested that the game back then still had 1M.

And now at the end of March Bioware said they had 2M new F2P accounts and yet this week they only have 1.7M. Can they not count?

I have suggested a simple explanation for the difference; the alternative is that Bioware are in the business of being very creative ... with their numbers.

The thing about Eve only having 1 server kind of takes the guesswork out of it when it tells you exactly how many players are online in the game when you log in (about 30 mins ago just over 49,000)  you don't need to check planets, although if you did, you'd be counting the dust players, and i think overall theres about 4,000 of them, total that is (including the offline players )

as for the f2p accounts in SW;TOR, they don't tend to generate any revenue, so does it matter if there are 1.7 million or 17 million of them..  0 multiplied by x amount of players is still.. 0..

 

How many players supplement their subs with Plex? By what nuymber do you multiply 49k with to get at the actual sub number?  How many EvE players have multiple accounts? How many play on the Chinese server and buy multiple gamecards that are counted as multiple subs? Blizzard has been accused of this practice for years to fudge their numbers. There is as much guesswork with EvE as with any other MMO. Keep spinning guys.

The Chinese game cards are usable on multiple games not just EvE, they would therefore only be counted when activated against an EvE account, similar to how a subscription would count once payment is made against an account. I believe there is just over 100k Chinese subs. I can't tell you how many Japanese subs there are, or Russian or US or EU, nationality doesn't matter, a monthly sub is a monthly sub.

Why is Plex relevant? If I purchase a Plex and sell it for credits and the buyer pays for their subscription with it, why on earth would it count differently than if my Auntie bought me a gametime card for WoW vs a regular WoW subscription

 

Thanks for answering those two questions I wondered where you were. Plex is relevant as it is a way for subscribers with multiple accounts to pay for their alt accounts, which puts into question how many individual accounts EvE has. EvE is a game that only allows the leveling of one character per account so in order to play EvE effectively you really need multiple accounts and puts questions to the actual nature of all those 500k accounts. So you believe there to be 100k Chinese accounts? So.. There is as much guesswork with EvE as with any other MMO. You are making the claim that CCP are more transparent about their playerbase than EA which is clearly wrong.

Some plex will be used to pay for multiple accounts, some will pay for time rich folks to play for free. Some people have multiple accounts in WoW and in others, some people accounts are paid for by others, at the end of the day the only meaningful number is the number of paid for accounts whether by credit card, Plex or parents buying gift cards.

I apologise for my Chinese language skills not being up to searching for an official number for the Chinese only server.

If you think EA are more transprent than CCP about their subscriber numbers then there isn't anything I can say to help you see reality so go ahead and claim victory, you win the internetz.

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 978

5/11/13 11:57:14 PM#40
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by simplius

if i log into EVE, i can see how many players are online ,,every time

compare that to EAs quarterly reports, which are intentionally vague

also note, that EA numbers appear to be beefed up

cccp may do the same,,but not to the same extent

one company have good numbers,,and theyre proud, to show them

the other company have bad numbers,,and what do they do?

 

If I log into TOR I can see server load on the server screen and when I play I can /who for all players playing, it takes a bit more effort but I last did it (yes I'm sad) when i recently resubbed to TOR after a 8 month absence. Server, The Progenitor RP server EU,  server load Heavy, the player concurrent logins on server, 4598, both factions counted Sunday evening peak time. Every Planet has how many players are on the planet in the top left corner with friends and guildies online, you can search OP's, FP's, WZ's, class, race etc.. can you do that in EvE? The info is there for all to see if you want to, so do you want to its free?

 

NEXT!

no thanx, im a carebear, so i dont play EVE

but i do have higher confidence in ccp numbers, than in those from EA

hell,,at this point,,i would believe in hitler, rather than EA

 

A free MMO that allows you to /who all players on the server, seems like someone is truly a carebear and a keyboard warrior to boot. Your inference and Ref Minor's that you can find out the amount of players on Tranquility and not any of EA's TOR servers has been found out to be not true and this is all you can come up with.

 

"hell,,at this point,,i would believe in hitler, rather than EA"

Also it is this...

"Hell, at this point I would rather believe in Hitler, than EA"

 

The information is there for all to see.

 

NEXT!

okay, then,,go and count them

and compare your numbers, to EAs

i would be VERY surprised , if they match each other

sorry about my bad grammar,,but when you can write me in my native language, you might have a point

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