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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Dead MMOs and Emotional Connections

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84 posts found
  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

5/12/13 11:43:39 AM#61
Originally posted by Beatnik59
/snipped for epic levels of brevity

Again, whether you think the service cancelation issue is a problem or not is immaterial. It's a problem for many, and if you don't believe me, use your eyes and look at this thread.  Myself, I'd just rather play something better, wait for something better and wait for something more secure.

What's wrong with that?

Whats wrong with that is you live and work in a service based economy, This is not going to change until it can be shown that a non service based one is better. Till then you will be waiting a long time for a game with a decent production value to make a dent much less replace it. An mmo is no different from a whore. You can get on a first name basis, be friends, chit chat on the phone, whatever. But it will never stop the fact that you are paying her for sex. I am sorry that your "normal" buddies and your mom are not smart enough to realize this, but that is how the world works.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Beatnik59

Elite Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2218

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

5/12/13 12:54:49 PM#62
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Beatnik59
/snipped for epic levels of brevity

Again, whether you think the service cancelation issue is a problem or not is immaterial. It's a problem for many, and if you don't believe me, use your eyes and look at this thread.  Myself, I'd just rather play something better, wait for something better and wait for something more secure.

What's wrong with that?

Whats wrong with that is you live and work in a service based economy, This is not going to change until it can be shown that a non service based one is better. Till then you will be waiting a long time for a game with a decent production value to make a dent much less replace it. An mmo is no different from a whore. You can get on a first name basis, be friends, chit chat on the phone, whatever. But it will never stop the fact that you are paying her for sex. I am sorry that your "normal" buddies and your mom are not smart enough to realize this, but that is how the world works.

You know who the bigger fool is in the "john and whore" relationship, don't you?

See, smart folks don't go in for whores, because they know that the momentary need to "scratch an itch" ain't worth the price.  Because all the whore can give you is the illusion of something real, not anything real.  When you need her the most, she ain't there.  When you run out of cash, she's gone.  When you're laid up in the hospital, she doesn't even know your name.  And when the going gets rough, she denies you.

Smart people know not to get mixed up with whores because it never ends well.  That's why the friends and family you insult speak the truth.  Far from being "not smart enough," they are--in fact--far smarter than people like you give them credit for.  Because they know, just like you and I know, that "an mmo is no different from a whore," and that it never ends well for the john.

The people who go in for whores are the worst of the worst: people with low impulse control.  People with esteem issues.  People who are hit upside the head by some tragedy and looking for an escape.  It is not dissimilar to most of the vice industries: gambling, booze and drugs.  It is an industry that is built upon exploiting the vulnerable.  And MMOs have become, like it or not, just another panderer of illusions, to pander to the exploitable.

It wasn't always thought of in that way.  In the early 2000s, people like Edward Castronova, Richard Bartle, Clay Shirkey and Raph Koster had high hopes that this new, virtual landscape we were creating could be a new source of community.  It could be a new route of creativity and self-expression. 

And, indeed, the games themselves give off powerful illusions of these very things.  But it ain't real.  None of it is real.  If it were real, it couldn't be taken away so easily.  You only get a sense of this when a publisher "takes the money and runs," and you are left with nothing but regret.  Your "friends" are gone.  Your means of expression is gone.  The things with which you build your self-esteem are gone.  And you are thrown back out into the world that has passed you by worse than when you started.

But who is the bigger fool?  The person who takes the money and runs?  Or the person who was taken for a ride?

Sometimes, you've got to act the fool so that you learn the hard way.  Folks who got burned by this industry, and really feel the sting, become a little wiser.  They won't make the same mistakes twice.

Now perhaps you're right.  Perhaps this industry "is not going to change" for the better, but will stagnate, dig in their heels and attempt to sell us the same old deal they did the last time.  All that means is that the problems of alienation and regret will only grow worse, and affect more people, the more time goes on.  And the more time goes by, and the more people get burned by the choices out there, will only mean that the people like me will grow in number.

Besides, there's so much to play out there, a person really doesn't have to wait around for something better.  So I'll wait a long time?  Big deal.  At least I won't get screwed.

But the definition of insanity, I have heard, is doing the same old thing and expecting a different result.  Given that I don't want the same result of my last three MMOs that closed down on me, why on earth would I be stupid enough to buy into the same thing?

 

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

5/12/13 1:21:18 PM#63
Originally posted by Beatnik59

You know who the bigger fool is in the "john and whore" relationship, don't you?

See, smart folks don't go in for whores, because they know that the momentary need to "scratch an itch" ain't worth the price.  Because all the whore can give you is the illusion of something real, not anything real.  When you need her the most, she ain't there.  When you run out of cash, she's gone.  When you're laid up in the hospital, she doesn't even know your name.  And when the going gets rough, she denies you.

Except you are still making the same mistake. The "need" for sex is not the same as the need for intimacy. Of course you do not go to a whore to fulfill the former.

Smart people know not to get mixed up with whores because it never ends well.  That's why the friends and family you insult speak the truth.  Far from being "not smart enough," they are--in fact--far smarter than people like you give them credit for.  Because they know, just like you and I know, that "an mmo is no different from a whore," and that it never ends well for the john.

Really? http://studioknow.com/2011/05/top-12-famous-prostitutes-in-history/ Just how little do you know of the worlds oldest profession. And that is just one of dozens of links.

It wasn't always thought of in that way.  In the early 2000s, people like Edward Castronova, Richard Bartle, Clay Shirkey and Raph Koster had high hopes that this new, virtual landscape we were creating could be a new source of community.  It could be a new route of creativity and self-expression. 

WOW! You invoke the name of Koster? Here is what he has to say on games as service http://www.raphkoster.com/2011/07/21/10-game-design-lessons-for-games-as-service-my-cc2011-talk/

Now perhaps you're right.  Perhaps this industry "is not going to change" for the better, but will stagnate, dig in their heels and attempt to sell us the same old deal they did the last time.  All that means is that the problems of alienation and regret will only grow worse, and affect more people, the more time goes on.  And the more time goes by, and the more people get burned by the choices out there, will only mean that the people like me will grow in number.

Not likely. The playerbase only continues to grow year after year http://www.newzoo.com/insights/the-global-mmo-market-sizing-and-seizing-opportunities-2/

Besides, there's so much to play out there, a person really doesn't have to wait around for something better.  So I'll wait a long time?  Big deal.  At least I won't get screwed.

But the definition of insanity, I have heard, is doing the same old thing and expecting a different result.  Given that I don't want the same result of my last three MMOs that closed down on me, why on earth would I be stupid enough to buy into the same thing?

Because its not insanity when you are the problem and not the game. You have a serious loss issue, I recommend you seek therapy.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Beatnik59

Elite Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2218

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

5/12/13 1:44:22 PM#64
Originally posted by Livnthedream
 

Besides, there's so much to play out there, a person really doesn't have to wait around for something better.  So I'll wait a long time?  Big deal.  At least I won't get screwed.

But the definition of insanity, I have heard, is doing the same old thing and expecting a different result.  Given that I don't want the same result of my last three MMOs that closed down on me, why on earth would I be stupid enough to buy into the same thing?

Because its not insanity when you are the problem and not the game. You have a serious loss issue, I recommend you seek therapy.

There's no need.  I just have to stop throwing this industry dollars it doesn't deserve.

Besides, what would a therapist say?  "If your experience with MMOs makes you mad, don't play MMOs."

Yes, I have a serious loss issue.  It was caused by this industry you defend.  Is it my problem?  It sure isn't yours.  For all I know, you might be a person who profits off problems like this.

Which is all the more reason why, if people like me have problems with how this business operates, we ought not engage in this business.  If we have problems with the loss, we shouldn't expose ourselves to the loss.

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  BlueTiger33

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/13
Posts: 169

5/12/13 5:41:29 PM#65
I whole heartedly miss the RVR of DAOC...and I got into SWG a couple months before they pulled the switch. =\


I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
My Blog

  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 897

There's some lovely filth down here.

5/12/13 7:11:52 PM#66
Originally posted by cration
Dude. Its just a game.

Member since '08, 1st post ever on the account, and man, I couldn't have put it more succinctly myself.

 

Brilliant, sir, and well played.

 

I love gaming, but I don't think I've had had the sort of emotional attachment to a character or game as Mr. Barreiro is exhibiting.  Bacon, yes.  Beer, most assuredly.  Games?  Nah.

  freegames

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 158

5/12/13 7:44:51 PM#67
The game makes the game, but having friendly players helps.
  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3544

5/12/13 7:50:27 PM#68
According to some posters on this thread, you should never get power cause the moment you un subscribe, you lose power. Which is a weird logic that makes no sense but w/e.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

5/13/13 1:44:37 AM#69
Originally posted by Beatnik59

There's no need.  I just have to stop throwing this industry dollars it doesn't deserve.

Besides, what would a therapist say?  "If your experience with MMOs makes you mad, don't play MMOs."

Yes, I have a serious loss issue.  It was caused by this industry you defend.  Is it my problem?  It sure isn't yours.  For all I know, you might be a person who profits off problems like this.

Which is all the more reason why, if people like me have problems with how this business operates, we ought not engage in this business.  If we have problems with the loss, we shouldn't expose ourselves to the loss.

No, because you are still missing the point. You are the one ascribing these issues to them. They are not the ones creating them. Stop blaming the industry for your own shortcomings. I mean look at how you are treating this entire subject? Its called grief counseling. They generally do not tell you to stop doing an activity. Grief counselers often help one deal with divorce for example. They are not going to tell you never to get married again. Besides the fact its unhealthy, that would be quite insane. Seriously guy, seek some help as you most certainly have a problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grief_counseling

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  sunshadow21

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/04
Posts: 355

5/13/13 9:50:41 AM#70
While I certainly don't think that deep sorrow is required, from what I have seen of several high profile closures, I can certainly understand some people's unwillingness to continue to participate in the genre. Many of the companies involved did little to encourage people to simply find new games, and much to discourage them to do so.
  Beatnik59

Elite Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2218

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

5/13/13 9:54:32 AM#71
Originally posted by Livnthedream
Originally posted by Beatnik59

There's no need.  I just have to stop throwing this industry dollars it doesn't deserve.

Besides, what would a therapist say?  "If your experience with MMOs makes you mad, don't play MMOs."

Yes, I have a serious loss issue.  It was caused by this industry you defend.  Is it my problem?  It sure isn't yours.  For all I know, you might be a person who profits off problems like this.

Which is all the more reason why, if people like me have problems with how this business operates, we ought not engage in this business.  If we have problems with the loss, we shouldn't expose ourselves to the loss.

No, because you are still missing the point. You are the one ascribing these issues to them. They are not the ones creating them. Stop blaming the industry for your own shortcomings. I mean look at how you are treating this entire subject? Its called grief counseling. They generally do not tell you to stop doing an activity. Grief counselers often help one deal with divorce for example. They are not going to tell you never to get married again. Besides the fact its unhealthy, that would be quite insane. Seriously guy, seek some help as you most certainly have a problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grief_counseling

Frankly, if any grief counsellor would tell me, after getting burned on an MMO, to go back into MMOs, I'd fire him.

You are way, waaay too invested in this issue.  I mean seriously, what's your beef?  You can't force me to buy or pay for this business model, so it ain't like you are doing any good for me.

Say I am suffering grief.  Isn't it, in the greater scheme of things, a good thing that people like me find better things to do than MMOs, if I'm this worked up about it?  I mean seriously.  That's like telling a compulsive gambler that he ought to go back in the casino...which is not that far off the mark with how a lot of people around here seem.

If you like having the things you buy taken away from you, have at it hoss.  If you want the things you like taken offline, go right ahead.

But I'm not satisfied with that.  Maybe you don't think you deserve better, but I deserve better.  I think you deserve better.  I don't see the point in throwing so much time and money into something if it is just going to disappear because a producer wants to shut things down.  I've been down that road before...several times.  It sucks, and I'm not going back there.

Some (probably most people that are outside the "MMORPG echo chamber" ) would call that smart.  Because you've got to think that things are only going to get worse with the service cancelations and the fragility of the model, with the number of games, and P2P and all.

I just don't think it's right, nor fair, to take away someone's fun for reasons wholly unrelated to his willingness or ability to pay.  And there isn't a thing you can say or do to make me think it isn't right for me to think that way, and act on it.

 

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

5/13/13 10:12:44 AM#72
Originally posted by Beatnik59

Frankly, if any grief counsellor would tell me, after getting burned on an MMO, to go back into MMOs, I'd fire him.

You are way, waaay too invested in this issue.  I mean seriously, what's your beef?  You can't force me to buy or pay for this business model, so it ain't like you are doing any good for me.

Say I am suffering grief.  Isn't it, in the greater scheme of things, a good thing that people like me find better things to do than MMOs, if I'm this worked up about it?  I mean seriously.  That's like telling a compulsive gambler that he ought to go back in the casino...which is not that far off the mark with how a lot of people around here seem.

If you like having the things you buy taken away from you, have at it hoss.  If you want the things you like taken offline, go right ahead.

But I'm not satisfied with that.  Maybe you don't think you deserve better, but I deserve better.  I think you deserve better.  I don't see the point in throwing so much time and money into something if it is just going to disappear because a producer wants to shut things down.  I've been down that road before...several times.  It sucks, and I'm not going back there.

Some (probably most people that are outside the "MMORPG echo chamber" ) would call that smart.  Because you've got to think that things are only going to get worse with the service cancelations and the fragility of the model, with the number of games, and P2P and all.

I just don't think it's right, nor fair, to take away someone's fun for reasons wholly unrelated to his willingness or ability to pay.  And there isn't a thing you can say or do to make me think it isn't right for me to think that way, and act on it.

That is right, you would most certainly deserve better if someone just turned off the servers one day and said "so long suckers!" and took your money and ran. Problem being that is not what has happened. In fact they have even returned money (within reason) and given 30+ days advance notice. The problem being you still think something ways taken from you that was not paid for.
 

You know, you sit there and you talk of loss and all that, and how they should have to remain open, and how "normal" people find it normal for you to be mmo shy now. I have had 2 rather fantastic resturants close nearby. One because the couple just did not want to continue to operate it (which really is sad, made the best clam chowder I have ever eaten) and a chinese place that made some fantastic General Tso's chicken. Is it reasonable for me to stop going out to eat?

And yes, I am caught up on it for the very "echo chamber" bs you keep toting. The more you keep on with it and people see no opposition and see it as having merit the more it gets spread. This is not healthy either for the industry nor for you, no matter how much in denial you may be. You need some help. If I could organize and intervention for you I would as you have clearly been misusing the gaming space anyway.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  ElderRat

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/10
Posts: 909

5/13/13 10:19:29 AM#73

I have lived through the closing of several games.  Shadowbane hit the hardest. It was a game,  I moved on though because becoming angry would not reopen the game. Now, i have anger issues and playing games helps me with those. I find killing 100 boars or space aliens or whatever is relaxing and will not end me up in jail.  I can do it on a mmo or a single player game.  I do not have to have any specific game to do it.  

Having said that, I do get attached to games and kind of have a love/hate affair with them. EQ2, EVE, LOTRO are 3 I have played, quit, and then played again several times.  If/when they are eventually discontinued it will be sad. It will not destroy my faith in mmo's... mostly because the f2p scheme has done that quite nicely, but in the long run they are only games. I was a D&D DM. I had boxes of maps and notes on a world I created. We had great fun playing it. Then a friend came over and told my GF at the time that I said he could borrow it and he sold it for 2 bags of weed.  I made

a new world. When a game ends I find a new game - mmo or single player. I have a couple of single player games I have played for years that work when I am bored with mmos.  

I am 61, I know life is transitory, I have friends who have been "discontinued" and I miss them far more than any game I have played. End of rant, and as always this is just MY opinion.

 

 

Currently bored with MMO's.

  irfan799

Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/11
Posts: 9

5/13/13 10:32:46 AM#74

Thanks for this post. very selected few have responded correctly.

ever since my games have closed down few years back, i have never found the same attachment in any other game. the sense of achievement from the dedication is all lost and meaningless. yes, its painful and one that will always remind me of the good times.

also makes me think, it could be that phase when mmo was still new to all the gamers who had been playing single player games a lot. and this wave of mmo boom caught the fancy of many and hung on with great attachment to their games. i dont think the gamers of this generation would understand so easily.. hence the trolls, and "just a gamer's"  

  Beatnik59

Elite Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2218

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

5/13/13 5:33:15 PM#75
Originally posted by Livnthedream

And yes, I am caught up on it for the very "echo chamber" bs you keep toting. The more you keep on with it and people see no opposition and see it as having merit the more it gets spread. This is not healthy either for the industry nor for you, no matter how much in denial you may be. You need some help. If I could organize and intervention for you I would as you have clearly been misusing the gaming space anyway.

The help I need--and the help everyone needs who is growing attached to virtual worlds--is the truth.  And the truth is this: the industry doesn't care if it hurts you or not.  In fact, when you grieve for an MMO, it's a sign that they did their job well.  They want to get you so attached to these things that you feel a deep, emotional connection.  Because when they do that, you'll fork over dollars, time and PR to their money-making endevors.

And people also ought to know that the moment they grow tired of our fun, they will take our fun away without hesitation.  At that point, all we become are liabilities for them that ought to be discarded, or recycled into a new virtual world where they can start you in on the ground level.  And when they close down one world, they'll hype you on another, feeding it money, time and emotional attachment until they pull that rug out from under us.

But for those of us that are feeling loss at what we had, the absolute worst thing we can do is to go into "grief counseling" like it was our pet Fido's time to go.  Unlike Fido, MMOs are machines.  Someone made the choice to take the things we buy away from us.  And they did so because they got what they wanted from us and are ready to discard us.

Now if I get you correctly, Livinthedream, If a producer took a person's ball away and went home, and the person feels a sense of alienation and loss, they ought to pick up another MMO.  I guess a person can do that, and get hurt again, and start over again, and get hurt again ad naueum.  It certainly is better for the industry when people do that.  A person would have to start from square one and buy all his upgrades, costumes and emotes from scratch again, which adds up to a ton of $$$.

That's good for the industry.  But is that good for us?  The ones who get emotionally thrown around like a rag doll because of virtual worlds?

I'm suggesting something different.  I'm done having my emotions manipulated by this industry.  I'm taking my control back.  I'm understanding the mechanisms that are used to create the emotional attachment.  And I'm demanding better.  If they don't want to give me better, that's their choice.  But I'm done getting into yet another MMO, hoping that the next one will last, only to find out a few years down the line that it's closing down, and I wasn't done with it yet.

Producers don't care if we feel loss.  Producers don't care what we want.  They are in this for themselves, and if they cause people emotional distress, pain and loss, that's just the price of business..."nothing personal" as they would say.

So, I'm making the choice not to buy into the hype of these new MMOs, or throw money or time at the old MMOs.  It's "nothing personal," just a personal decision that I have every right to make.

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  Livnthedream

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 582

I like this planet, YOU get off!

5/13/13 5:49:18 PM#76
Originally posted by Beatnik59

And people also ought to know that the moment they grow tired of our fun, they will take our fun away without hesitation.  At that point, all we become are liabilities for them that ought to be discarded, or recycled into a new virtual world where they can start you in on the ground level.  And when they close down one world, they'll hype you on another, feeding it money, time and emotional attachment until they pull that rug out from under us.

Why do you continue to attribute their actions to malice?

But for those of us that are feeling loss at what we had, the absolute worst thing we can do is to go into "grief counseling" like it was our pet Fido's time to go.  Unlike Fido, MMOs are machines.  Someone made the choice to take the things we buy away from us.  And they did so because they got what they wanted from us and are ready to discard us.

So just like girlfriend that dumped you for the jock in highschool you will live out your days in your parents basement, forever growing the perfect neckbeard. For the pain is just too unbearable in society.

Now if I get you correctly, Livinthedream, If a producer took a person's ball away and went home, and the person feels a sense of alienation and loss, they ought to pick up another MMO.  I guess a person can do that, and get hurt again, and start over again, and get hurt again ad naueum.  It certainly is better for the industry when people do that.  A person would have to start from square one and buy all his upgrades, costumes and emotes from scratch again, which adds up to a ton of $$$.

No, you should learn how to play the games correctly. They are just games, not loved ones. Treating them as such is where your problem lies.

I'm suggesting something different.  I'm done having my emotions manipulated by this industry.  I'm taking my control back.  I'm understanding the mechanisms that are used to create the emotional attachment.  And I'm demanding better.  If they don't want to give me better, that's their choice.  But I'm done getting into yet another MMO, hoping that the next one will last, only to find out a few years down the line that it's closing down, and I wasn't done with it yet.

That is not demanding better, that is being unreasonable. You want to turn a service into a tangible thing which will never happen. Your bank, your grocery store, your barbershop, your favorite restaurant. None of them are permanent. They are all services. Asking them to be permanent is not reasonable. Them closing up shop is not out of malice or spite. Its generally something out of their control.

Producers don't care if we feel loss.  Producers don't care what we want.  They are in this for themselves, and if they cause people emotional distress, pain and loss, that's just the price of business..."nothing personal" as they would say.

That is generally demonstrably false. Producers want to make a game that wants to be played. Producers are rarely the ones making the call. Even if they were though, "you" is not enough. there needs to be more than you. As CoH rather clearly showed. When you do not make enough money you get shut down, just like every other service industry.

So, I'm making the choice not to buy into the hype of these new MMOs, or throw money or time at the old MMOs.  It's "nothing personal," just a personal decision that I have every right to make.

Bullshit. You are rather clearly making it personal. All for the sake of being an unreasonable shit who wants Cocoa Puffs and mommy is telling you they cannot afford it. Get over yourself.

http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/

Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!

  Beatnik59

Elite Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2218

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

5/13/13 8:52:18 PM#77
Originally posted by Livnthedream

Why do you continue to attribute their actions to malice?

I'm pretty sure customers aren't important enough for them to harbor malicious thoughts.  They didn't want us to suffer.  They just weren't concerned if we suffered.

So just like girlfriend that dumped you for the jock in highschool you will live out your days in your parents basement, forever growing the perfect neckbeard. For the pain is just too unbearable in society.

Sucks, don't it?  Perhaps you ought to shave, get out of the basement, and live a little instead of sitting around trolling what is, in the greater scheme of things, a real stupid thing to get worked up about.

No, you should learn how to play the games correctly. They are just games, not loved ones. Treating them as such is where your problem lies.

This from the guy who wants me to go to "grief counseling" to accept the loss of my MMO?  Grief is for Fido.  Anger is for getting ripped off, and not making the same mistakes.  Besides, I'm sure your house isn't a "loved one" like your mother, but it doesn't mean you have to go "thank you sir, may I have another?" when the DEA busts it all up and says "sorry."

That is not demanding better, that is being unreasonable. You want to turn a service into a tangible thing which will never happen. Your bank, your grocery store, your barbershop, your favorite restaurant. None of them are permanent. They are all services. Asking them to be permanent is not reasonable. Them closing up shop is not out of malice or spite. Its generally something out of their control.

I don't think it's all that unreasonable.  After all, they turned the video game from a commodity to a service in the first place.  The game itself can be commoditized.  The add ons can too, as seen in any PS3 store.  They can create a stand alone client, they can license--heck, even a contingency plan to keep the game up would be enough.

But the way things stand now, the service model this industry adopted is just too fragile.  I mean, you can reasonably estimate with a high degree of certainty what the above businesses (barber shop, grocery, restaurant) can gross, what their clientele consists of, etc.  They aren't so dependent on fickle things like fashion, public opinion or buzz to keep them afloat.  That's because the demographics and the needs are simple, "from mediocristan," if we were to quote Taleb.

MMORPG services, by contrast, are highly unpredictable by comparison.  They can last 30 years or 30 days, and there's really no way to tell what you've got until after you have it.  There are so many factors that may cause a service like this to be forced to shut down, some related to the revenue the game generates and others not.  In other words, there's no way for them to predict...let alone the end-user to predict...what the longevity of the purchases will be.

They don't need to turn these "services" into "tangible things," but if they want to remain services, they should at least work out a strategy by which they can become more robust.  A customer shouldn't be left guessing whether they'll enjoy their $50 purchase for 30 days or 30 years.

That is generally demonstrably false. Producers want to make a game that wants to be played. Producers are rarely the ones making the call. Even if they were though, "you" is not enough. there needs to be more than you. As CoH rather clearly showed. When you do not make enough money you get shut down, just like every other service industry.

The only thing that CoH "clearly" showed is how fragile these games are.  Because the game was actually making more money than it cost to operate.  The problem was that NCSoft wanted to close down Paragon Studios in its restructuring scheme.  The customers were, sadly, collateral damage.

Of course "I" am not enough to keep one of these games going...and that's the problem.  Because I can only do what I can do.  I can't be held responsible for the publisher's quarterly profit targets, and yet when they aren't met, my purchases are taken from me.  Heck, even when I--and several other subscribers--pay our way, it might not be enough.  They might not like the profit we give them, and they might want to cut their losses.  Or we might be making them a nice sum, but they want to "change direction" and become something else.

In short, there are all of the same risks associated with this form of computer entertainment (hardware malfunction, etc), plus the risks of an entire production and publishing company that the consumer has to bear, including the fickle nature of MMO management.  And that's just a whole lot more fragile than, say, a single player game or a peer-to-peer multiplayer game.

You are rather clearly making it personal. All for the sake of being an unreasonable shit who wants Cocoa Puffs and mommy is telling you they cannot afford it. Get over yourself.

What if I am making it personal?  I've been playing these games for about ten years now.  I'm not some person who hasn't looked at their model, didn't give this industry a chance, and wasn't willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.  I'm just sick of getting screwed.

You're just mad that I'm not buying into the hype of these games anymore, and you are mad that I'm taking issue with your business model.  Maybe because you have a stake in this industry somehow, and someone like me is bad for business.

But I'm not here for the business.  I'm here for the people who feel regret, anger and sorrow when their games, online friends, characters and purchases get taken from them.

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  Squeak69

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 960

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

5/13/13 9:31:02 PM#78
Originally posted by jdlamson75
Originally posted by cration
Dude. Its just a game.

Member since '08, 1st post ever on the account, and man, I couldn't have put it more succinctly myself.

 

Brilliant, sir, and well played.

 

I love gaming, but I don't think I've had had the sort of emotional attachment to a character or game as Mr. Barreiro is exhibiting.  Bacon, yes.  Beer, most assuredly.  Games?  Nah.

if you can grow attached to anything why is it hard to beleave that something that people spent a good chunk of several years in, where they meet and had fun with thier friends, where they went to escape everyday nnonsence.

i dont understand why people think im a fool for not thinking the way they do, but i know that i miss a few MMOs that have closed.

and in respose to a earlyier post that says, more old MMOs should close to make way for the new, well ill agree with that when i stop driveing my 1968 el cameno, just casue things are new dont mean they are better and i would still be playing CoH and not looking at other games if it was still live.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  tenyearsofmmorpgs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 6

5/13/13 10:42:42 PM#79
This article really hit home with me because i internally am pondering this same dilemma.  I have games that are out of date graphics with little to no community left yet i feel the desire to go back. Is the desire that I am great? That i somehow am rich on this older mmorpg that i loved so  much? The motivation has baffled me to no end. Becasue with some mmorpgs i can simply Uninstall the game and quit. Other mmorpgs i find myself coming back to over and over...quitting them coming back in some odd way like an Alchoholic or a drug addict goes back to there drug. I think it really lies in the how deeply the pathway was burnt into the brain for that particular mmorpg. I think some i find this very personal connection with the players that i just feel a need to go back to say hi to my old friends. Then there is the object connection. I think its masterfully done when an mmorpg  can suck one into so deep one feels a need to come back to that game even when bored.  I guess my bottom line is that MMORPGs are an addiction and are created as such. They want you to never have an end to never quit so they can make more money. Sometimes i just have to give it all away and delete my characters to move on. The stubborn sense of denial that a game wont die and it MUST live on forever can seem crazy from an abject point of view but so sane to one experiencing it .   Its hard for me but sometimes i just have to delete it all and remind myself its all not real (even though we dam well know the people behind the characters are real) and just move on with life and sometimes ...theres just no reason to leave...because real life can suck ass. :) YOU SO CRAY MIXED FEELINGS 
  tenyearsofmmorpgs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 6

5/13/13 10:46:44 PM#80
To be fully honest i think some of us who are this addicted need help...but then what you get help you try to be normal but your not...you never were...so why let go of that one thing that makes your odd ass happy? lol
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