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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » How will the economy work?

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59 posts found
  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1696

5/09/13 4:13:29 PM#21
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Tamanous

Asheron's Call had their form of currency but once crafting became more involved in the game it became clear that rare craft items became the real currency. Pyreal notes soon became primarily used for vendor purchasing and not much else. CU may require some sort of currency for NPCs crafters will always demand resources for the products others require them to make.

 

I simply do not see how CU can dodge the basic barter system as it is managed by the players. All CSE has to do allow the economy to flourish and the players will determine what is most in demand.

Asheron's Call economny was based on a Loot economy, rather it be Pyreal Motes, Shards & Fragments in the early days then to Major's and Epics in the latter days.

 

Still told, the Crafting in AC was solly based on the ability to augment/enchant or Tinker loot dropped items and at no point was it ever possible to craft an armor piece or weapon, only augment them.  Beautiful system that ESO is reinstituting right down to the dynamic loot differentiation on gear where no 2 "like" items will have the same stats.  Enjoy CU where the economy is based on nothing and any lasting appeal to do find something worthwhile is destroyed with the sense that you cna jsut hire someone to craft it.  Borring!

Ah well we now know why you are here then. Thanks for your opinion. You can now move along to other game boards you actually support. Your omniscient precognition for games not yet even released is impressive but we'll just proceed into the gaming abyss that is CU by ourselves now.

 

Thankyous!

You stay sassy!

  Edany

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 187

5/09/13 4:36:45 PM#22
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Tamanous

Asheron's Call had their form of currency but once crafting became more involved in the game it became clear that rare craft items became the real currency. Pyreal notes soon became primarily used for vendor purchasing and not much else. CU may require some sort of currency for NPCs crafters will always demand resources for the products others require them to make.

 

I simply do not see how CU can dodge the basic barter system as it is managed by the players. All CSE has to do allow the economy to flourish and the players will determine what is most in demand.

Asheron's Call economny was based on a Loot economy, rather it be Pyreal Motes, Shards & Fragments in the early days then to Major's and Epics in the latter days.

 

Still told, the Crafting in AC was solly based on the ability to augment/enchant or Tinker loot dropped items and at no point was it ever possible to craft an armor piece or weapon, only augment them.  Beautiful system that ESO is reinstituting right down to the dynamic loot differentiation on gear where no 2 "like" items will have the same stats.  Enjoy CU where the economy is based on nothing and any lasting appeal to do find something worthwhile is destroyed with the sense that you cna jsut hire someone to craft it.  Borring!

Ahhhh yes, the good old 'dynamic loot differentiation' routine, where tanks get lovely items with +Intelligence stats based on some Loot RNG table - a cool enough item in itself, that no other mage really wants to buy. Better yet, some totally awesome item that will sell for an over-inflated price that nobody else will ever be able to re-create because it was completely dependent on same said RNG. <insert a twirl of my finger in the air>

Whoop-de-do.  I'm happy for you that some totally random and useless, or potentially op, RNG items excite you, but I'm hoping for a little bit more from CSE here.

Other than stopping by to concern troll, I don't see at all where you think that the CU economy will be based on 'nothing'. People will need blueprints to build. Those will have to be purchased or created. They will need them to build seige weapons, forts, walls, roads, houses, and any other number of creative structures.

This doesn't even factor in armor, weapons, consumables, fluff, housing items, on and on and on...

So what if I have to hire a crafter to make it? Thank God! That means I don't have to spend hours and hours grinding for the hope that some piece of gear or weapon that I want or need drops, and I don't have to spend time praying to the MMO RNG Gods that I roll high enough to even win the said item. I can just help a crafter farm the materials and be done with it, freeing up my time to kill players such as yourself, standing around in the open, farming mobs hoping for that shiny ring.

In DAoC, having a crafter make an MP piece of gear, and then finding an Enchanter to augment it with the stats I chose to have put on it didn't take any sense of 'accomplishment' away from me, I was thrilled to get it, and even more thrilled that I didn't have to grind away at crafting since some other poor bastard chose to do that for me. All that much faster to get out into the action - aka RvR and NOT PvE which you seem to love.

PvE is obviously your thing. That's awesome, for you. There are countless PvE games for you to choose from out there and we wish you the best of luck -----> over there ---------------> with the PvE games in the PvE game forums.

Thanks for stopping by to voice your concerns though.

  professornomos

Novice Member

Joined: 4/29/13
Posts: 67

5/09/13 4:46:54 PM#23
Originally posted by Edany
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Tamanous

Asheron's Call had their form of currency but once crafting became more involved in the game it became clear that rare craft items became the real currency. Pyreal notes soon became primarily used for vendor purchasing and not much else. CU may require some sort of currency for NPCs crafters will always demand resources for the products others require them to make.

 

I simply do not see how CU can dodge the basic barter system as it is managed by the players. All CSE has to do allow the economy to flourish and the players will determine what is most in demand.

Asheron's Call economny was based on a Loot economy, rather it be Pyreal Motes, Shards & Fragments in the early days then to Major's and Epics in the latter days.

 

Still told, the Crafting in AC was solly based on the ability to augment/enchant or Tinker loot dropped items and at no point was it ever possible to craft an armor piece or weapon, only augment them.  Beautiful system that ESO is reinstituting right down to the dynamic loot differentiation on gear where no 2 "like" items will have the same stats.  Enjoy CU where the economy is based on nothing and any lasting appeal to do find something worthwhile is destroyed with the sense that you cna jsut hire someone to craft it.  Borring!

Ahhhh yes, the good old 'dynamic loot differentiation' routine, where tanks get lovely items with +Intelligence stats based on some Loot RNG table - a cool enough item in itself, that no other mage really wants to buy. Better yet, some totally awesome item that will sell for an over-inflated price that nobody else will ever be able to re-create because it was completely dependent on same said RNG.

Whoop-de-do.  I'm happy for you that some totally random and useless, or potentially op, RNG items excite you, but I'm hoping for a little bit more from CSE here.

Other than stopping by to concern troll, I don't see at all where you think that the CU economy will be based on 'nothing'. People will need blueprints to build. Those will have to be purchased or created. They will need them to build seige weapons, forts, walls, roads, houses, and any other number of creative structures.

This doesn't even factor in armor, weapons, consumables, fluff, housing items, on and on and on...

So what if I have to hire a crafter to make it? Thank God! That means I don't have to spend hours and hours grinding for the hope that some piece of gear or weapon that I want or need drops, and I don't have to spend time praying to the MMO RNG Gods that I roll high enough to even win the said item. I can just help a crafter farm the materials and be done with it, freeing up my time to kill players such as yourself, standing around in the open, farming mobs hoping for that shiny ring.

In DAoC, having a crafter make an MP piece of gear, and then finding an Enchanter to augment it with the stats I chose to have put on it didn't take any sense of 'accomplishment' away from me, I was thrilled to get it, and even more thrilled that I didn't have to grind away at crafting since some other poor bastard chose to do that for me. All that much faster to get out into the action - aka RvR and NOT PvE which you seem to love.

PvE is obviously your thing. That's awesome, for you. There are countless PvE games for you to choose from out there and we wish you the best of luck -----> over there ---------------> with the PvE games in the PvE game forums.

Thanks for stopping by to voice your concerns though.

 

Great series of posts in this thread Edany

  zekuel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/13
Posts: 39

5/09/13 4:59:15 PM#24
Infinite gold means we need to pay taxes. Also there will be npc builders from what a recall they just won't be as good as player builders. As for crafters needing gold I would assume there are costs for crafting as well and many will play alts also. Crafting bot FTW. Rez sick will cost money too I would think. I believe MJ said that there would/could be a market to buy and sell materials but not for items. As far as just being a crafter with no alts I assume you will spend your money doing things you like to do being that you are just playing for that. That would include buying supplies for building too. Since crafters can not fight my assumption would be that they would use the market more after they have established funds and when the market as established reasonable resources. Of course there is a lot of assumptions here.
  Edany

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 187

5/09/13 4:59:36 PM#25
Originally posted by professornomos

Great series of posts in this thread Edany

Thank you!!

I am pretty excited for the potential economy that this game *could* have, and most of the ideas I've been tossing about are nothing more than possibilities, but they're possibilities that I'll be pretty vocal about in testing. :)

I see a lot of concerns over the economy, when a player based economy tends to drive itself. Augmented by trivial money sinks in the form of NPC vendors spread about here and there, the possibilities are pretty limitless and its one of the least of my concerns in the game. Sure there will be items that cost a small fortune, but there will be plenty of other things that don't and a wise player can find all sorts of ways to either make themselves filthy rich or spend themselves into virtual poverty and debt.

The game economy for me falls far behind class balance, combat mechanics, implementation of CD, ironing out bugs, animations, etc etc.

  Lawtoween

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/13
Posts: 104

5/09/13 5:07:48 PM#26

Not only has MJ not said there will be no NPC vendors, I believe he has said there WILL be.  They just won't be selling items that a crafter could not make something far better than.  As for money sinks, on another board someone once mentioned to me that plots will have to be maintained.  I think we can assume this will be in the form of currency, although it may be in the form of resources. 

Incidentally, a barter system will eventually determine a currency.  A currency is, after all, only the commodity that everyone accepts in exchange for everything else because it is portable, easily quantified, and difficult to counterfeit.  Obviously, counterfeiting is not an issue in a game (although you could almost call loot drops a method of counterfeiting, and I would say gold farming IS the same as counterfeiting), so our currency only needs to be portable and easily quantified.  Portability may or may not be an issue in the game.  If things have weight, then it will be, unless CSE implements a currency and says it has no weight, then their currency wil have a HUGE advantage over any commodity.  If they choose not to create an in game currency (which I'm pretty sure MJ has said they will, but maybe if the backers talk him out of it...) then the commodity that becomes the currency will have to be highly valueable per unit of weight.  By easily quantified I mean two things.  First, it can be measured.  Again, in a game this is really a non-issue, but for theorycrafting I have to point it out.  Whether it be by weight (as in the case of gold) or some other unit, you have to be able to know how much of it you have to exchange for the things you want.  The second part of being quantifiable is that it can be easily made into equal units (in the real world we would call these coins), the smaller the better. 

As has been mentioned several times, loot drops are likely to cause inflation, because money sinks can not be so burdensome as to cause everyoe to become broke.  Balancing that is impossible, because everyone will earn money at a different rate so the sink would have to be tied with the way you earn money.  MJ has said  there will be no loss from looting, so he has eliminated the sink tied to the RvR way of earning money (you gain gold from killing, but do not lose it from dying).  Sure there will be item deterioration, but that has to balance the gathering of resources, so it can't be used as a money sink, since it is a resource sink.  Also, the aforementioned plot maintenance.  Presumably that will be time based.  Something that cannot be easily balanced between casual (low hour per week) players and hard core players.  Thus it will be low compared to the potential to gather money, and not serve that particular purpose (although it will serve the purpose of preventing abandoned buildings from making the landscape ugly).

I'll have to think a bit more on this to offer a better solution than a finite amount of gold tied to killing and dying.

  professornomos

Novice Member

Joined: 4/29/13
Posts: 67

5/09/13 5:54:11 PM#27
Originally posted by Edany
Originally posted by professornomos

Great series of posts in this thread Edany

Thank you!!

I am pretty excited for the potential economy that this game *could* have, and most of the ideas I've been tossing about are nothing more than possibilities, but they're possibilities that I'll be pretty vocal about in testing. :)

I see a lot of concerns over the economy, when a player based economy tends to drive itself. Augmented by trivial money sinks in the form of NPC vendors spread about here and there, the possibilities are pretty limitless and its one of the least of my concerns in the game. Sure there will be items that cost a small fortune, but there will be plenty of other things that don't and a wise player can find all sorts of ways to either make themselves filthy rich or spend themselves into virtual poverty and debt.

The game economy for me falls far behind class balance, combat mechanics, implementation of CD, ironing out bugs, animations, etc etc.

 

While I agree those things are important, I think that the way the Economy works will be integral to game design because it will be the a key element of the game.  Though RvR is the foundation of CU, what will separate CU from a tactical combat simulation will be the economy and the way the each realm is able to optimize its economy to fuel its war machine. 

 

Logistics will win this game.

 

 

To the main topic:

Take EvE (which is my go to PvP sandbox example).   For starting money,  they have "Rats" that earn players a bounty for destroying them (along with salvage).   Each of the realms could have bounties in place (either on NPCs or even PCs) which help to give players some cash.

What really intrigues me is the way that crafting/gear progression will work.  The crafting in EvE is about more than just stats but its also a progression.   The longer you play the "cooler" ships you can build/fly.  This climb up the ship ladder is part of what keeps EvE in business.   CU (or any Fantasy MMO) can't really have quite the same gear progression because it ruins a lot of the cool factor.   E.g. starting with daggers  and grinding skills up to 2H swords.

 

The real challenge for crafting in CU will be making the progression fun for everyone.  In EvE players actively talk about how close they/corp mate are to making teh cool ships as a matter of self sufficiency and pride.  It is my hope that  in CU, crafters and the players will just excited about having getting new crafting skills as players are in EvE. 

 

In EvE, the money sink is that ships blow up all the time thus crafters are never out of business.  Another major issue for CU crafting is how to avoid over production without making crafting the worst grind in the game.

 

 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18987

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

5/09/13 5:59:59 PM#28
A bit off topic, but MJ has sort of stopped dropping by to weigh in on topics like this anymore.

I think the hostility got to him.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Daizedd

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/13
Posts: 143

5/09/13 6:02:37 PM#29

Essentially, in the real world, for any currency to have value, it has to be taxed. So if we want to have an in game currency, we need NPCs that require it and that offer something for that currency that we require to continue playing the game or to enhance our gameplay.

In my opinion, the most elegant solution would be that various consumables, needed by either crafters, RvRers, or both, had to be purchased from NPCs. This would mirror taxes irl. We would most probably have  to add to that a few other non-crafter items sold by NPCs that everyone wanted and had to be purchased with gold... various mounts, perhaps siege weapons or vanity items for housing. There would have to be a decent amount of things to buy for gold from NPCs that players would be interested in having and that crafters could not make.

The other option, is to do entirely without a currency and work on a barter system. But in that case  RvRers would need something to trade. This might be crafting materials, but that is a bit of a closed loop system that will not make for a very compelling economy, and something crafters might demand even in a gold economy (mats + 500 gold for the sword please).

  professornomos

Novice Member

Joined: 4/29/13
Posts: 67

5/09/13 6:08:03 PM#30
Originally posted by Kyleran
A bit off topic, but MJ has sort of stopped dropping by to weigh in on topics like this anymore.

I think the hostility got to him.

Or maybe he's actually taking a legit vacation away from work?  Or if I may be cynical, he doesn't have to sell the game anymore?

Sure there's a lot of doubters here but there are relatively few trolls.

  TigsKC

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 139

5/09/13 6:10:26 PM#31
Originally posted by Kyleran
A bit off topic, but MJ has sort of stopped dropping by to weigh in on topics like this anymore.
 

He and the rest of the CSE team are on a well-deserved vacation.  Just my guess, but I would expect to hear from him on Monday.

 

  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

 
OP  5/09/13 9:14:41 PM#32
Originally posted by Edany
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Tamanous

Asheron's Call had their form of currency but once crafting became more involved in the game it became clear that rare craft items became the real currency. Pyreal notes soon became primarily used for vendor purchasing and not much else. CU may require some sort of currency for NPCs crafters will always demand resources for the products others require them to make.

 

I simply do not see how CU can dodge the basic barter system as it is managed by the players. All CSE has to do allow the economy to flourish and the players will determine what is most in demand.

Asheron's Call economny was based on a Loot economy, rather it be Pyreal Motes, Shards & Fragments in the early days then to Major's and Epics in the latter days.

 

Still told, the Crafting in AC was solly based on the ability to augment/enchant or Tinker loot dropped items and at no point was it ever possible to craft an armor piece or weapon, only augment them.  Beautiful system that ESO is reinstituting right down to the dynamic loot differentiation on gear where no 2 "like" items will have the same stats.  Enjoy CU where the economy is based on nothing and any lasting appeal to do find something worthwhile is destroyed with the sense that you cna jsut hire someone to craft it.  Borring!

Ahhhh yes, the good old 'dynamic loot differentiation' routine, where tanks get lovely items with +Intelligence stats based on some Loot RNG table - a cool enough item in itself, that no other mage really wants to buy. Better yet, some totally awesome item that will sell for an over-inflated price that nobody else will ever be able to re-create because it was completely dependent on same said RNG.

Whoop-de-do.  I'm happy for you that some totally random and useless, or potentially op, RNG items excite you, but I'm hoping for a little bit more from CSE here.

Other than stopping by to concern troll, I don't see at all where you think that the CU economy will be based on 'nothing'. People will need blueprints to build. Those will have to be purchased or created. They will need them to build seige weapons, forts, walls, roads, houses, and any other number of creative structures.

This doesn't even factor in armor, weapons, consumables, fluff, housing items, on and on and on...

So what if I have to hire a crafter to make it? Thank God! That means I don't have to spend hours and hours grinding for the hope that some piece of gear or weapon that I want or need drops, and I don't have to spend time praying to the MMO RNG Gods that I roll high enough to even win the said item. I can just help a crafter farm the materials and be done with it, freeing up my time to kill players such as yourself, standing around in the open, farming mobs hoping for that shiny ring.

In DAoC, having a crafter make an MP piece of gear, and then finding an Enchanter to augment it with the stats I chose to have put on it didn't take any sense of 'accomplishment' away from me, I was thrilled to get it, and even more thrilled that I didn't have to grind away at crafting since some other poor bastard chose to do that for me. All that much faster to get out into the action - aka RvR and NOT PvE which you seem to love.

PvE is obviously your thing. That's awesome, for you. There are countless PvE games for you to choose from out there and we wish you the best of luck -----> over there ---------------> with the PvE games in the PvE game forums.

Thanks for stopping by to voice your concerns though.

I don't want to derail my own thread, but...

This is one of the most brutal and complete dismantlings of a troll I've ever seen.  Well done!

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  professornomos

Novice Member

Joined: 4/29/13
Posts: 67

5/09/13 9:53:20 PM#33
Originally posted by Daizedd

Essentially, in the real world, for any currency to have value, it has to be taxed. So if we want to have an in game currency, we need NPCs that require it and that offer something for that currency that we require to continue playing the game or to enhance our gameplay.

In my opinion, the most elegant solution would be that various consumables, needed by either crafters, RvRers, or both, had to be purchased from NPCs. This would mirror taxes irl. We would most probably have  to add to that a few other non-crafter items sold by NPCs that everyone wanted and had to be purchased with gold... various mounts, perhaps siege weapons or vanity items for housing. There would have to be a decent amount of things to buy for gold from NPCs that players would be interested in having and that crafters could not make.

The other option, is to do entirely without a currency and work on a barter system. But in that case  RvRers would need something to trade. This might be crafting materials, but that is a bit of a closed loop system that will not make for a very compelling economy, and something crafters might demand even in a gold economy (mats + 500 gold for the sword please).

 

Just a few nit-picks.  Its not taxes that make money valuable, its the perceived value of money that makes it valuable.  Historically this value was pegged to: a) a weight of metal b) a fixed unit of labor (day, week, month or year)  or c) a staple commodity (ie a bushel of wheat). Today most developed economies have a floating currency which allows the relative strength of its currency to be determined vis a vis other currencies.

 

Your are right however, that NPCs can serve to "peg" the value of a copper/silver/gold by having a fixed purchase value of materials. 

For example if players know that NPCs will buy Minotaur Hide for 1G , faire wings for 1S and Oak logs for 1C.   What this does for the economy is  in theory set the price floor for these goods and likely to have it trade higher.  The US government (among others) does something similar to this with several commodities already and it wouldn't be too far a stretch to have it in CU.

  skyexile

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 701

5/10/13 12:10:35 AM#34

I think its fine, for money to just be given to players from kills. Imagine as it been the US just mashing out bills, if there is more money out there, then people will charge more for things. simple as that. what the game then needs to do unlike other games is then take more money out of the economy through taxes or fees. not so good for new players maybe...

Another way you could perhaps do thinks is make an RVR kill worth more the more money is in your realms kitty...it you could an algorithm to sort out how many kills there are each week etc and pay people people based off that, each week that amount could be adjusted based off how much the realm earned through taxes, from build fees, trades etc....whole thing could take more of an economy expert to work out.

but essentially you would have RvR's working for the realm, and been paid by them and crafted would work for themselves but still be taxed on their earnings, you would need to make it so that crafting has a value though, in wow it simply doesn't work, items crafted are sometimes worth less than their base mats, perhaps with limited crafters available this might be possible but also i think by having the best crafting stations and resources in enemy lands then you could perhaps perhaps turn a profit through crafting.

I dont see why there needs to be items drops for an economy, can somebody explain the reasoning behind this thinking, i dont understand it.

SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  Taldier

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 249

5/10/13 12:26:45 AM#35

There does need to be something limiting currency inflation.  If you just magically generate gold by killing someone then in a year we'll be buying a loaf of bread for a million pounds of gold.  And thats assuming that a crafter would even take your gold.  If gold becomes too heavily inflated in this type of economy everyone will just barter other more scarce resources.

 

Kills generating gold also really heavily motivates guilds to make alt accounts on an opposing realm and kill farm them for money.  Sure you can catch them and ban them sometimes, but you wont get them all, and its better not to encourage it in the first place.

  UOlover

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/10
Posts: 331

5/10/13 12:33:07 AM#36

Well first off there was a lot that he didn't reveal about making money whenever he was asked about it

Second I don't need much gold when my friend can make me everything want and the houses come from resources that we gather and I can repair my own stuff.

  zeroumus

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 54

5/10/13 12:37:06 AM#37

there does not need to be drops for an economy.      Put the good resources where people are forced to RvR.    make the game less about having gold coin, and more about moving materials around the world...

 

 

I would even go with the idea of a finite money supply.        there does have to be money however,  and everything in the game should be able to covert to money.       if you want a real economy in the game,   then money and resources have to start behaving like they should.   Having items and gold drop off PVE mobs is a sure way to wreck a game economy.   having items that you can not convert to cash is another way to wreck the economy.     

  Daizedd

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/13
Posts: 143

5/10/13 1:46:25 AM#38
Originally posted by professornomos
Originally posted by Daizedd

Essentially, in the real world, for any currency to have value, it has to be taxed. So if we want to have an in game currency, we need NPCs that require it and that offer something for that currency that we require to continue playing the game or to enhance our gameplay.

In my opinion, the most elegant solution would be that various consumables, needed by either crafters, RvRers, or both, had to be purchased from NPCs. This would mirror taxes irl. We would most probably have  to add to that a few other non-crafter items sold by NPCs that everyone wanted and had to be purchased with gold... various mounts, perhaps siege weapons or vanity items for housing. There would have to be a decent amount of things to buy for gold from NPCs that players would be interested in having and that crafters could not make.

The other option, is to do entirely without a currency and work on a barter system. But in that case  RvRers would need something to trade. This might be crafting materials, but that is a bit of a closed loop system that will not make for a very compelling economy, and something crafters might demand even in a gold economy (mats + 500 gold for the sword please).

 

Just a few nit-picks.  Its not taxes that make money valuable, its the perceived value of money that makes it valuable.  Historically this value was pegged to: a) a weight of metal b) a fixed unit of labor (day, week, month or year)  or c) a staple commodity (ie a bushel of wheat). Today most developed economies have a floating currency which allows the relative strength of its currency to be determined vis a vis other currencies.

 

Your are right however, that NPCs can serve to "peg" the value of a copper/silver/gold by having a fixed purchase value of materials. 

For example if players know that NPCs will buy Minotaur Hide for 1G , faire wings for 1S and Oak logs for 1C.   What this does for the economy is  in theory set the price floor for these goods and likely to have it trade higher.  The US government (among others) does something similar to this with several commodities already and it wouldn't be too far a stretch to have it in CU.

I do not want to go totally off subject, but there is a rather convincing set of economic theories which argue that by taxing its citizens in a particular currency the government creates the initial demand for that currency. In other words, just as you say, it creates a perceived value. If you think about it, it does make sense. Your comment that "its the perceived value of money that makes it valuable" is a circular argument and does not really address the question as it just leads to a new question: "What makes people perceive a currency (a bit of paper) as having value?". Yes it has value because people demand it as payment. But the first entity to demand it as payment is the state. If the state did not tax in its own currency there would be no initial condition making the currency of value and nothing stopping people from adopting any other old bit of paper for their currency.  For your own reference : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartalism . This is not the only source for this theory and is a common claim made by several more mainstream economists as well.

NPCs may also serve to peg a bottom value for a product, but if you only have NPCs buying things, your currency will have no value and nothing will be sold to them anyways. You need to have NPCs selling objects you cannot find elsewhere and that people want to create value for the currency.This is a hidden form of in-game taxation. We could also add rent /upkeep for housing as another form of in-game tax which would give value to the currency. If you have a currency, you need some form of tax, otherwise you will immediately evolve into a barter system, which is not necessarily a bad thing tbh, but may be disconcerting for some players.

  grimjakk

Novice Member

Joined: 1/01/06
Posts: 195

5/10/13 2:11:00 AM#39
Originally posted by UOlover

Well first off there was a lot that he didn't reveal about making money whenever he was asked about it

Second I don't need much gold when my friend can make me everything want and the houses come from resources that we gather and I can repair my own stuff.

 

Like everything else, it'll center around RvR, I bet. 

  • Awards and bounties paid out by your Realm for RvR missions. 
  • Pocket change from enemy players. 
  • Resources (sellable to crafters) and coin retrieved from looted enemy structures.

 

And on the 'sink' side, even with your friend donating time and resources to your rustic Cottage of Doom,  you'll have to pay the Realm for rights to the plot, and perhaps hire NPC servants to maintain the structure (there's your weekly 'upkeep' cost) or work your field if the plot is large enough... maybe even guards to help keep the bad guys from toasting marshmallows on what used to be your roof.

Lots of ways this could work.  

  naezgul

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/13
Posts: 389

5/10/13 8:24:51 AM#40
Originally posted by grimjakk
Originally posted by UOlover

Well first off there was a lot that he didn't reveal about making money whenever he was asked about it

Second I don't need much gold when my friend can make me everything want and the houses come from resources that we gather and I can repair my own stuff.

 

Like everything else, it'll center around RvR, I bet. 

  • Awards and bounties paid out by your Realm for RvR missions. 
  • Pocket change from enemy players. 
  • Resources (sellable to crafters) and coin retrieved from looted enemy structures.

 

And on the 'sink' side, even with your friend donating time and resources to your rustic Cottage of Doom,  you'll have to pay the Realm for rights to the plot, and perhaps hire NPC servants to maintain the structure (there's your weekly 'upkeep' cost) or work your field if the plot is large enough... maybe even guards to help keep the bad guys from toasting marshmallows on what used to be your roof.

Lots of ways this could work.  

Nail meet hammer!

mj stated that the realm will pay you for your actions, and enemy players drop coin

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