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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Neverwinter performance scaling: doesn't need much of a video card, but does need a stronger CPU than is commercially available

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55 posts found
  dotdotdash

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/01/11
Posts: 350

5/09/13 9:28:16 AM#21


Originally posted by botrytis
Sounds like the game is on GPU optimized yet - just hang on. That usually happens in beta testing.

With the graphics of this game, I am surprised it stresses any current CPU as the graphics are garbage.


The point is that the game - like most MMOs - does the majority of the crunching on the CPU. It has little to do with the quality of the graphics, and more to do with the volume of data being processed live and on the fly. It's got a lot to do with server-client interactions.

The problem is that there's a lot of data to crunch and a lot to display on the screen, so offloading that crunching onto the GPU isn't really an option (especially if you're targeting mid to low end machines, which most MMOs do).

I mean... they could of course put the effort in and have it switch between CPU heavy or GPU heavy processing based on the system specifications of the machine being used, but that's a bitch to optimise in the long term. Where that sort of set up might work internally, in the wild things are very different.

Obviously over time things will get better, but the efforts will be to optimise the process already in place; it's doubtful they'll change it.

  Balkin31

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 225

5/09/13 9:35:53 AM#22

Wow that's really interesting, so people with CTD CPU's less than 3.0ghz are most likely really hurting and older AMD chip players must really be hurting.

 

I hope they get some good feedback and fix the bottleneck that this game so clearly has with CPU's!!

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/09/13 9:49:47 AM#23
The game uses 3 threads

If your on a dual core it will be slow.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/09/13 9:57:32 AM#24
Constant 50deg + while running a game

Especially with an i5

Is a cooling problem!

You should only get those sort of temps when you put it under a program specifically designed to test it.

I run several cpu intensive games (e.g ps2, civ 5), I have an normal sized after market air cooler. I never go above 35 or so apart from when I ran a stress test to test my system.

How else do you explain my stead 60fps with a 6300fx, where as the faster I5 was acting sluggish. TEMPERATURES. Intel stock coolers are known to be underwhelming.

50 for a gpu is normal though.
  Miblet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 333

5/09/13 10:26:38 AM#25
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Constant 50deg + while running a game

Especially with an i5

Is a cooling problem!

You should only get those sort of temps when you put it under a program specifically designed to test it.

I run several cpu intensive games (e.g ps2, civ 5), I have an normal sized after market air cooler. I never go above 35 or so apart from when I ran a stress test to test my system.

How else do you explain my stead 60fps with a 6300fx, where as the faster I5 was acting sluggish. TEMPERATURES. Intel stock coolers are known to be underwhelming.

50 for a gpu is normal though.

50-60c for an i5 is well within spec. when under load.  There will be no damage sustained from this temperature range within the time you will use it (it will likely die long after it has become obselete).

If your i5 was running sluggishly at that range then you should have sent it back, it was likely faulty, or another part of your system was.  It happens.  Most stock coolers are underwhelming, not just intel, AMDs are far from perfect and if you can afford to purchase a CPU at that price range it seems a bit silly to not spend a little more for better cooling.

For an i5 idle temps of low 30s to low 40s are fine (depending on ambient temp and air flow in case), load temps are fine to 70-75c, obviously lower is better as it allows more head room for when temperatures rise.  Within these temperature ranges your CPU won't die to temp until it has become obselete from the temperature.  Intel even have the safe running temp of i5s at tcase 67.8c.  To say that anything above 50c at load is damaging is merely misinformation.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/09/13 10:30:55 AM#26
Constantly above 50 isn't normal
  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2310

"Free to play, pay to win""

5/09/13 10:35:04 AM#27
50 during a game is actually quite, quite fine.

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13578

 
OP  5/09/13 10:36:29 AM#28
Originally posted by DeniZg

My old Intel e5200 with Ati4850 can run this around 25FPS at close to maximum settings, with 1680*1050 rez. Drops to 15-20 in the city.  My i5-3470 with AMD 7850 runs this at 1080p, absolute max setting, without any drops below 60FPS, anywhere.

Around 25 frames per second, and drops to 15-20 in some areas, and you don't see any problem with that?  I don't know about you, but I like higher frame rates.

  Betaguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2646

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

5/09/13 10:39:02 AM#29
Originally posted by Dibdabs
I am using an old dual-core and there's no problems at all.  Is it PCs with more cores than that having issues?

 Same, I am using a 2-3 year old machine Duo Core 2.8Ghz, 4 GB Ram, and a crappy ATI 6430HD 1GB.  ZERO LAG, ZERO FRAMERATES DROPPED. Just saying.

  Miblet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 333

5/09/13 10:59:32 AM#30
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Constantly above 50 isn't normal

He said under load he reaches 59-61c, which I would assume would mean 35-42c idle.

50c and above is fine under load, and yes it is normal.  Having 35c under load is far, far better than normal expectancy for an i5 (really it's damn good with a top end air cooling solution, if you don't have that then hats off to you...or your temperature sensors are badly off ;p).

My system gets 60fps and rarely dips to 50ish (pretty much only when in Protectors Enclave) and runs up to 60c under load in Neverwinter on max settings. I have an i5 3570k@4GHz.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/09/13 11:16:20 AM#31
See that's mad I'm getting same fps as you with a 6300 and much lower temps

Now I do have a fairly high end gpu, factory clocked / cooled 7950 but...
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/09/13 11:17:33 AM#32
Ah unless Intels naturally run hotter? But is expect it to be other way round with AMD using larger die size and what have you
  Miblet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/10
Posts: 333

5/09/13 11:38:25 AM#33
Originally posted by ShakyMo
See that's mad I'm getting same fps as you with a 6300 and much lower temps

Now I do have a fairly high end gpu, factory clocked / cooled 7950 but...

Depending on how clocked the GPU is you will be getting roughly the same fps as me, gaming is not going produce massive differences between the 2 chips.  With the 6300 being better price / performance.  At best, assuming identical GPU and opertaing environments you will see up to 5fps difference, if your GPU is clocked higher than mine (very possible as mine is only very slightly overclocked - stability issues with this card when clocking, luck of the draw etc.) you will see that diminish or likely be overtaken.

The Intel chip should be running cooler at stock iirc, which as I said your temps are very, very good for an air cooled solution.  35c under load is amazing, my ambient room temperature would make that near impossible for me to attain with an air cooling solution.  Though my overclock did lead a hefty temperature rise in itself.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3482

5/09/13 11:42:56 AM#34

Keep in mind that temperature is a function of two inputs: the thermal load (CPU) and the cooling capacity (heat sink).

While 60C may be unusual for you, it is perfectly within design specifications. Intel lists a maximum Tcase of 72.6C. TCase is the temperature on the top of the Die, not internal core temp, which will be several degrees hotter.

So long as your cooling solution can keep the CPU before 72.6 on the top of the die, it's fine. Cooler is better, sure, but 60C is hardly broken. Now, if it were running at 40C and all of a sudden jumped to 60C - that indicates a problem, but it still isn't necessarily broke yet.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/09/13 11:43:06 AM#35
Ah I do live in England.
  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2819

5/09/13 11:43:37 AM#36
I'm running with a AMD FX-8120 Eight-core processor and I have no issue pushing 80+ FPS in this game. I think it's just you Quiz.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Reizla

Elite Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 3036

MMORPGs are no longer about the mass multi-user anymore *sadly*

5/09/13 11:46:33 AM#37
Originally posted by Quizzical

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/neverwinter-performance-benchmark,3495-8.html

Basically, they took the game engine of Champions Online and Star Trek Online that tried to do way too much on the CPU rather than offloading it to the GPU and then made it do even more on the CPU, likely just by having to draw more stuff without changing the engine itself much.  And they did that without making it scale well to many CPU cores.  Oops.

Crappy piece of work on Tom's Hardware for a change :(

Neverwinter uses by default the DX9 rendering and that's the thing killing the performance on DX11 cards. Not to mention it forces the card to work at 100% generating a buttload of heat as well.

When you go to Graphics -> Troubleshooting you can change the rendering to DX11. This will improve the FPS a lot and lower the GPU usage by 25% on my system (set to highest settings). I've dropped from AA16x to AA8x (with the rest still at max) and the GPUs run now only on 55% tops with the FPS having an extra 10% improvement.

More info on my blog.

Demigoth's RPG adventures ~ My blog

AsRock 990FX Extreme3
AMD Phenom II 1090T ~3.2Ghz
GEiL 16Gb DDR3 1600Mhz
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  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/09/13 11:48:40 AM#38
Ah that's another difference, I always run with the settings on my card, rather than "let game decide"
  9ineven

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/09
Posts: 159

5/09/13 11:53:54 AM#39
The game runs better than GW2 on my old Quad Core Q8400, DDR2 RAM and a GTX 560.
  khartokhar3

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/07
Posts: 490

5/09/13 12:10:12 PM#40

didn't had any problems yet. actually i kinda was surprised how good the performance is atm. almost every mmo which have been released last months had some performance issues. but this one seems to worrk pretty well.

my specs:

cpu: amd phenonm ii x4 (3ghz)

gfx: xfx 5770 gt 1gb

ram: 4gb

system: vista 32

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