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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » ShoddyCast Elder Scrolls AllStars

18 posts found
  nilden

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 886

 
OP  5/09/13 4:55:35 AM#1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY7VzG3DMDc

If your following TESO I found this video voices many of my concerns. They left out faction locks and stuff but it was worth the watch and I hope game devs are paying very close attention to some of the points brought up.

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  SavageHorizon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1547

5/09/13 5:04:45 AM#2

TESO is what it is, time to except it's another linear, themepark MMO. Your not lock into one faction area anymore so that's why he has left out the faction lock issue. PVP is in Cyrodiil, that's where the threat is so forget about PVP outside of that zone, it makes sense to keep it all in Cyrodiil.

The game has more PVE than it does PVP which is cool. TESO isn't going to be the next big MMO, i have a feeling that EQN will trump it, hybrid not themepark is the future.

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  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

5/09/13 8:02:05 AM#3
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

TESO is what it is, time to except it's another linear, themepark MMO. Your not lock into one faction area anymore so that's why he has left out the faction lock issue. PVP is in Cyrodiil, that's where the threat is so forget about PVP outside of that zone, it makes sense to keep it all in Cyrodiil.

The game has more PVE than it does PVP which is cool. TESO isn't going to be the next big MMO, i have a feeling that EQN will trump it, hybrid not themepark is the future.

I still think we have far too little info on EQN to judge it fairly. Although, one has to wonder since the game is blackboxed.. As in, we probably wont even see a closed beta before they reveal EQN August at the SOE Live event.  However, the game will probably go into open beta 2 weeks - a month following SOE Live I would guess, since Smedley hinted players will have their hands on the game this year "and I'm not just talking about a beta". They are blackboxing it because they feel they have innovative tools that no other MMO have before, and they want to drop it like a bombshell so companies are playing catch up. However, SOE's recent track record leaves a lot to be concerned (and rightfully so)

 

There are so many questions with EQN.

 

Is there progression end-game?

instances?

LFG?

World PvP?

Ava?

 

All we know is that its supposedly the largest sandbox MMO of all time, you can do several things not just grinding or quest hub to hub, the world apparently isnt just a backdrop and players can impact/destroy the world

 

ESO will fail if it doesnt have proper end-game raiding, which is supposedly doesnt.. World Bosses as the PvE end-game content is a joke. And no, questing in two other zones doesnt count as end-game PvE. And AvA in Cyrodill wont last forever.. I'm sure by the 200th time it'll have lost its charm for me.

 

What I like is most these guys love Elder Scrolls, love MMOs, and wont blindly ride the jock of the game because of the name of the IP. Most their concerns are legitimate concerns, but I understand why fanboys might get defensive: Because that's what fanboys do, they hate any thought of negativity towards THEIR game.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2526

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

5/09/13 8:04:35 AM#4
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

TESO is what it is, time to except it's another linear, themepark MMO. Your not lock into one faction area anymore so that's why he has left out the faction lock issue. PVP is in Cyrodiil, that's where the threat is so forget about PVP outside of that zone, it makes sense to keep it all in Cyrodiil.

The game has more PVE than it does PVP which is cool. TESO isn't going to be the next big MMO, i have a feeling that EQN will trump it, hybrid not themepark is the future.

 You say that like its a bad thing... nothing wrong with linear themepark styles if done correctly.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

5/09/13 8:07:33 AM#5
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

TESO is what it is, time to except it's another linear, themepark MMO. Your not lock into one faction area anymore so that's why he has left out the faction lock issue. PVP is in Cyrodiil, that's where the threat is so forget about PVP outside of that zone, it makes sense to keep it all in Cyrodiil.

The game has more PVE than it does PVP which is cool. TESO isn't going to be the next big MMO, i have a feeling that EQN will trump it, hybrid not themepark is the future.

 You say that like its a bad thing... nothing wrong with linear themepark styles if done correctly.

For Elder Scrolls fans who dont partake in MMOs, it'll probably be a big shock to them. A lot of them are naive to the nature of MMOs, and are expecting Skyrim with friends even though they've been told not to. They are used to no limitations, and now they'll be faced with a lot of limitations and "rules" that will probably turn off an alright size of the hardcore Elder Scroll IP base that doesnt play multiplayer games.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2526

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

5/09/13 8:10:02 AM#6
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

TESO is what it is, time to except it's another linear, themepark MMO. Your not lock into one faction area anymore so that's why he has left out the faction lock issue. PVP is in Cyrodiil, that's where the threat is so forget about PVP outside of that zone, it makes sense to keep it all in Cyrodiil.

The game has more PVE than it does PVP which is cool. TESO isn't going to be the next big MMO, i have a feeling that EQN will trump it, hybrid not themepark is the future.

 You say that like its a bad thing... nothing wrong with linear themepark styles if done correctly.

For Elder Scrolls fans who dont partake in MMOs, it'll probably be a big shock to them. A lot of them are naive to the nature of MMOs, and are expecting Skyrim with friends even though they've been told not to. They are used to no limitations, and now they'll be faced with a lot of limitations and "rules" that will probably turn off an alright size of the hardcore Elder Scroll IP base that doesnt play multiplayer games.

 For every one person that won't play this title, there is 5 more that will.... just saying.  The vocal people are the minority not the majority.

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

5/09/13 8:14:08 AM#7
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

TESO is what it is, time to except it's another linear, themepark MMO. Your not lock into one faction area anymore so that's why he has left out the faction lock issue. PVP is in Cyrodiil, that's where the threat is so forget about PVP outside of that zone, it makes sense to keep it all in Cyrodiil.

The game has more PVE than it does PVP which is cool. TESO isn't going to be the next big MMO, i have a feeling that EQN will trump it, hybrid not themepark is the future.

 You say that like its a bad thing... nothing wrong with linear themepark styles if done correctly.

For Elder Scrolls fans who dont partake in MMOs, it'll probably be a big shock to them. A lot of them are naive to the nature of MMOs, and are expecting Skyrim with friends even though they've been told not to. They are used to no limitations, and now they'll be faced with a lot of limitations and "rules" that will probably turn off an alright size of the hardcore Elder Scroll IP base that doesnt play multiplayer games.

 For every one person that won't play this title, there is 5 more that will.... just saying.  The vocal people are the minority not the majority.

Elder Scrolls fans wont be the minority. There are even a lot of big name MMO streamers who are very skeptical about ESO. A lot of MMO players are PvE end-game type people, and dont like the sound that there doesnt appear to be any raiding tiers/real end-game progression besides World Bosses that wont even be out at launch. If they wont be out at the launch, the game damn well better be coming out this year, no excuse for a release next year with no Adventure Zones. A lot of people dont care for questing past max level unless it's dailies for currency/etc.

 

The ironic part is it sounds like a lot of Elder Scrolls fans should be interested in Everquest Next instead of ESO. It sounds like they want a big sandbox game and that is what Everquest Next is going for, while ESO is going more the main-stream route but with a twist.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2526

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

5/09/13 8:16:47 AM#8
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

TESO is what it is, time to except it's another linear, themepark MMO. Your not lock into one faction area anymore so that's why he has left out the faction lock issue. PVP is in Cyrodiil, that's where the threat is so forget about PVP outside of that zone, it makes sense to keep it all in Cyrodiil.

The game has more PVE than it does PVP which is cool. TESO isn't going to be the next big MMO, i have a feeling that EQN will trump it, hybrid not themepark is the future.

 You say that like its a bad thing... nothing wrong with linear themepark styles if done correctly.

For Elder Scrolls fans who dont partake in MMOs, it'll probably be a big shock to them. A lot of them are naive to the nature of MMOs, and are expecting Skyrim with friends even though they've been told not to. They are used to no limitations, and now they'll be faced with a lot of limitations and "rules" that will probably turn off an alright size of the hardcore Elder Scroll IP base that doesnt play multiplayer games.

 For every one person that won't play this title, there is 5 more that will.... just saying.  The vocal people are the minority not the majority.

Elder Scrolls fans wont be the minority. There are even a lot of big name MMO streamers who are very skeptical about ESO. A lot of MMO players are PvE end-game type people, and dont like the sound that there doesnt appear to be any raiding tiers/real end-game progression besides World Bosses that wont even be out at launch. If they wont be out at the launch, the game damn well better be coming out this year, no excuse for a release next year with no Adventure Zones. A lot of people dont care for questing past max level unless it's dailies for currency/etc.

 

The ironic part is it sounds like a lot of Elder Scrolls fans should be interested in Everquest Next instead of ESO. It sounds like they want a big sandbox game and that is what Everquest Next is going for, while ESO is going more the main-stream route but with a twist.

 To each is there own... /shrug

  hMJem

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 468

5/09/13 8:21:54 AM#9

I mean, a lot of Elder Scrolls players consider Skyrim/etc Sandbox. So they think "Well this is an Elder Scrolls game but an MMO" but arent getting a Sandbox experience.

 

There is something wrong with theme park -- If you do it wrong, it fails a lot quicker than a sandbox game. No one wants to see bad WoW clone #24. I've seen some MMO streamers who are very popular pretty much say they'd love a WoW clone that is great, but it just doesnt happen.

 

If you go the theme park route, which is most associated with WoW nowadays, you have to nail it. They are alienating end game progression players by having "World Bosses" and no end game progression/tiered raids. And they also risk alienating the die hard Elder Scrolls player by the game having rules and limits to what you can do. Most Elder Scrolls people like Elder Scrolls because it's THEIR world, they get to do with it what they want. Not the case in ESO.

 

I never said what's right and wrong. But just as the debate in this video talked about: Zenimax is walking a very difficult rope trying to please the Elder Scrolls fanboys and the MMO crowd, and at the end of the day which becomes more important, the casual MMO crowd or the Elder Scrolls crowd? If they can't nail the perfect 50-50 split that also blends well together, they have to pick which side to cater to. If it fails, the game is going to faceplant, and fast. They cant afford to piss off both crowds, although I think being a Triple A name, they are trying to please both. I dont think they want to be a mediocre MMO like Neverwinter/games left in the dust and forgotten about within 2-4 months.

 

And assuming ESO and EQN dont back down and both want to release before Christmas, they are indirectly competing with each other because they are both MMORPG's, despite one being "Themepark" and one being "Sandbox" Not a lot of people like to dedicate time to multiple MMOs, too time consuming. Will people try both out? Sure, lots will. There will also be people who will only pick one. If ESO wasthe only MMORPG releasing in its time frame, more people would try it probably, but a lot of publishers or whoever want their game to hit right before Christmas season as sells boom. I think the number of MMORPG's that release this year from January to the end of December will be 23, which is pretty insane. So its a tough market to be in right now, and I dont think ESO wants to fall in the middle or the bottom tier. In fact I'm sure they want to beat out EQN. They can put the dagger in EQN if ESO is amazing

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

5/09/13 8:54:34 AM#10

This topic has been done to death. Dont like the game, go find one ya do. 6 years in development with the current 3 faction lock system. At this point your only option is to vote with your money. As I will by buying this game.

 

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2608

110100100

5/09/13 3:02:57 PM#11


Originally posted by hMJem

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by hMJem

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by SavageHorizon TESO is what it is, time to except it's another linear, themepark MMO. Your not lock into one faction area anymore so that's why he has left out the faction lock issue. PVP is in Cyrodiil, that's where the threat is so forget about PVP outside of that zone, it makes sense to keep it all in Cyrodiil. The game has more PVE than it does PVP which is cool. TESO isn't going to be the next big MMO, i have a feeling that EQN will trump it, hybrid not themepark is the future.
 You say that like its a bad thing... nothing wrong with linear themepark styles if done correctly.
For Elder Scrolls fans who dont partake in MMOs, it'll probably be a big shock to them. A lot of them are naive to the nature of MMOs, and are expecting Skyrim with friends even though they've been told not to. They are used to no limitations, and now they'll be faced with a lot of limitations and "rules" that will probably turn off an alright size of the hardcore Elder Scroll IP base that doesnt play multiplayer games.
 For every one person that won't play this title, there is 5 more that will.... just saying.  The vocal people are the minority not the majority.
Elder Scrolls fans wont be the minority. There are even a lot of big name MMO streamers who are very skeptical about ESO. A lot of MMO players are PvE end-game type people, and dont like the sound that there doesnt appear to be any raiding tiers/real end-game progression besides World Bosses that wont even be out at launch. If they wont be out at the launch, the game damn well better be coming out this year, no excuse for a release next year with no Adventure Zones. A lot of people dont care for questing past max level unless it's dailies for currency/etc.

 

The ironic part is it sounds like a lot of Elder Scrolls fans should be interested in Everquest Next instead of ESO. It sounds like they want a big sandbox game and that is what Everquest Next is going for, while ESO is going more the main-stream route but with a twist.


most ES fans wont buy this regardless because its not on the consoles (where the vast majority of ES fans play their ES games) and likely has a sub fee.

but he is right, you vocal minority are the minority. you also cant speak for all ES fans even though you seem to think you can.

either way, i would assume this game will not have a problem with initial sales at launch compared to other highly anticipated mmo's, its keeping people playing after they plow through the content that will be the issue.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3702

5/09/13 4:16:37 PM#12
Originally posted by hMJem
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

TESO is what it is, time to except it's another linear, themepark MMO. Your not lock into one faction area anymore so that's why he has left out the faction lock issue. PVP is in Cyrodiil, that's where the threat is so forget about PVP outside of that zone, it makes sense to keep it all in Cyrodiil.

The game has more PVE than it does PVP which is cool. TESO isn't going to be the next big MMO, i have a feeling that EQN will trump it, hybrid not themepark is the future.

 You say that like its a bad thing... nothing wrong with linear themepark styles if done correctly.

For Elder Scrolls fans who dont partake in MMOs, it'll probably be a big shock to them. A lot of them are naive to the nature of MMOs, and are expecting Skyrim with friends even though they've been told not to. They are used to no limitations, and now they'll be faced with a lot of limitations and "rules" that will probably turn off an alright size of the hardcore Elder Scroll IP base that doesnt play multiplayer games.

What planet are these Skyrim players from? Anyone 8 years old or older knows all about WOW and how it plays. Even if they've never played it, they've either seen friends playing it or heard them talking about it. You're trying to make them sound like an elite group who are dedicated to sandboxes...even though none of the TES games are.

you guys flogging your dead horse just don't quit do you? "hardcore Elder Scrolls IP base that doesn't play multiplayer games"... Do you speak for all 3 of them?

  Punk999

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/26/04
Posts: 878

5/09/13 4:20:15 PM#13
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

This topic has been done to death. Dont like the game, go find one ya do. 6 years in development with the current 3 faction lock system. At this point your only option is to vote with your money. As I will by buying this game.

 

lol awesome

"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com

  ZedTheRock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/13
Posts: 175

5/14/13 8:25:55 AM#14
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

TESO is what it is, time to except it's another linear, themepark MMO. Your not lock into one faction area anymore so that's why he has left out the faction lock issue. PVP is in Cyrodiil, that's where the threat is so forget about PVP outside of that zone, it makes sense to keep it all in Cyrodiil.

The game has more PVE than it does PVP which is cool. TESO isn't going to be the next big MMO, i have a feeling that EQN will trump it, hybrid not themepark is the future.

I consider TESO a hybrid of sorts as well.  From the open ended class systems to the open exploration centric Elder Scrolls like world.

SUP

  SavageHorizon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1547

5/14/13 8:32:08 AM#15
Originally posted by ZedTheRock
Originally posted by SavageHorizon

TESO is what it is, time to except it's another linear, themepark MMO. Your not lock into one faction area anymore so that's why he has left out the faction lock issue. PVP is in Cyrodiil, that's where the threat is so forget about PVP outside of that zone, it makes sense to keep it all in Cyrodiil.

The game has more PVE than it does PVP which is cool. TESO isn't going to be the next big MMO, i have a feeling that EQN will trump it, hybrid not themepark is the future.

I consider TESO a hybrid of sorts as well.  From the open ended class systems to the open exploration centric Elder Scrolls like world.

It's not an open world for exploration, i can't go anywhere i want. I can use any weapon in RaiderZ , it's an open ended class system but that don't make the game a hybrid.

RaiderZ class system, sounds familiar don't it http://raiderz.perfectworld.com/news/?p=390301

TESO is themepark make no mistake about that, it's only claim by some of being a hybrid is the skill system but that not even an open ended skill system, look at DarkFall and Mortal online.

 

The game has carebear pvp that does nothing but give you bragging rights and faction buffs and alliance points, their is no real risk involved at all. The game is linear and single player story mode like GW2/SWTOR, nope TESO is far from hybrid.

 

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  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3702

5/14/13 10:42:55 AM#16
Originally posted by Punk999
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

This topic has been done to death. Dont like the game, go find one ya do. 6 years in development with the current 3 faction lock system. At this point your only option is to vote with your money. As I will by buying this game.

 

lol awesome

However, modern management thinking has identified a range of alternative strategies for dealing with the problem of a dead horse:  



  1. Change riders.
  2. Reclassify the dead horse as a paradigm shift and keep riding it. 

  3. Buy a stronger whip and flog the horse until it shows signs of life. 

  4. Do nothing: "This is the way we have always ridden dead horses".

  5. Develop a Strategic Plan for the management of dead horses. 

  6. Arrange an international programme visit to see how they ride dead horses in other countries.

  7. Perform a productivity study to see if lighter riders improve the dead horse's performance.

  8. Hire outside consultants to ride the dead horse.

  9. Harness several dead horses together in an attempt to increase the speed.

  10. Provide additional funding for external training that will increase the dead horse’s performance. 

  11. Appoint a committee to study the horse and assess how dead it actually is. 

  12. Rewrite the horse’s job description in line with the new Competency Framework Guidelines for Deceased Equine Models.

  13. Re-classify the dead horse as suffering from "Vital Life-Sign Indetectability Syndrome".

  14. Promote the dead horse to a management position.

  15. Declare that, as the dead horse does not have to be fed, it is less costly, carries lower overheads, and therefore contributes substantially more to the bottom line than many other horses.

  16. Contact IT to see if the whole stable is down, or just your horse. 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/14/13 10:55:57 AM#17
HmJem

Those hard core mmoers you talk about.

They all sod off back to wow after 2 months anyway.

Why make a mmo to cater to this minority, they aren't with bothering with, wow more than looks after them, several games gave tried to lure them, they go these games temporaralily during a lull in wow content, then return to wow
  buegur

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 458

5/14/13 11:18:01 AM#18
Not sure where peeps come off saying that most ES fans aren't going to play this game.  I for one, am a fan of ES and will play this game, as are most of my friends who are ES fans.  I personally despise the raid elements of most MMo end games that must be repeated until bored to death just to obtain better gear so you can do hard modes of the same thing.  That said I could care less if they did include that although I laugh that many of the lore purest seem to be on that band wagon, and i sure didn't see that in any of the Es games to date.  To me defending my alliance is a better end game, so I hope they develope  that into something meaningful.  I would like to see developers make some sort of random mission maker that could make meaningful multi-path stories that had an effect on the game world.  Would be kool to see mobs move into to different areas if peeps failed on their stories or even have NPC's complement players for their heroic deeds to other players if they succeed.