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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Wipe before release?

18 posts found
  jusomdude

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 2310

 
OP  5/08/13 3:52:10 PM#1
Are current characters getting wiped at release? Just want to know if I should keep playing or wait for release.
  Wakygreek

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 4/30/08
Posts: 1244

Reason is a necessity

5/08/13 3:53:23 PM#2
Originally posted by jusomdude
Are current characters getting wiped at release? Just want to know if I should keep playing or wait for release.

No more character wipes, the last one was on 04/25/2013 right before the open beta of the game.

  AIMonster

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2016

5/08/13 3:56:19 PM#3
I'm not sure why it's okay for them to use the term "open beta" when the game is clearly released.  If you are able to buy things from the cash shop and characters are not going to be wiped and reset in my opinion that qualifies the game as "released".

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Skaioverride

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 48

5/08/13 3:56:29 PM#4
Did you even read the website?, do a little research before making a thread. And btw, open beta counts as release for free to play games.
  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2854

5/08/13 4:36:23 PM#5

The "Open Beta" label is like a disclaimer 

 

While the game is "not released", it means Cryptic can do almost anything and justify it because it's "still in beta". It also justifies giving the public access to a game that is not full-featured or 100% stable yet, but at the same time the Cash Shop is 100% open for business. So Cryptic can start making money on the game as if it's already released.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6663

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

5/08/13 4:41:24 PM#6
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

The "Open Beta" label is like a disclaimer 

 

While the game is "not released", it means Cryptic can do almost anything and justify it because it's "still in beta". It also justifies giving the public access to a game that is not full-featured or 100% stable yet, but at the same time the Cash Shop is 100% open for business. So Cryptic can start making money on the game as if it's already released.

What he said^^

Pretty sad really is it not?BTW it is not about Cryptic,Perfect World is handling the publishing and what happens on their servers.

Some players that are higher level are already claiming the game changes a lot to support the cash shop,that would be a misleading game.

Last i read it is actually illegal to mislead a customer on any product.The problem is free to play sort of lets them off the hook.Just another reason F2P is a really bad gimmick.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Shadowguy64

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 880

5/08/13 4:45:03 PM#7
The game is ready for you OP. Go for it. It's pretty fun.
  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5039

5/08/13 7:33:50 PM#8
The game is released, when F2P games go open beta and start taking cash in online store = released game
  Slappy1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/12
Posts: 464

5/08/13 7:34:58 PM#9
No more character wipe's.

Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

Arya Stark

  Gyrus

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 2322

5/08/13 8:32:15 PM#10
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

The "Open Beta" label is like a disclaimer 

 

While the game is "not released", it means Cryptic can do almost anything and justify it because it's "still in beta". It also justifies giving the public access to a game that is not full-featured or 100% stable yet, but at the same time the Cash Shop is 100% open for business. So Cryptic can start making money on the game as if it's already released.

What he said^^

Pretty sad really is it not?BTW it is not about Cryptic,Perfect World is handling the publishing and what happens on their servers.

Some players that are higher level are already claiming the game changes a lot to support the cash shop,that would be a misleading game.

Last i read it is actually illegal to mislead a customer on any product.The problem is free to play sort of lets them off the hook.Just another reason F2P is a really bad gimmick.

Yes.  It just occurred to me too... they are 'banning' accounts.

You don't ban accounts from a test... if players do find an exploit (and it's a test) you say "Thank you very much for finding that before the game reached release."

 

So, I have to agree, this game is released.

Players who have been banned should see if they can lodge a complaint with whatever consumer body they have in their country.

I just did a quick search and PW and Cryptic could be hard to nail down... but a complaint directed and Wizards of the Coast (A US based LLC) might get results? (Especially since WotC won't want issues here)

Edit: Cryptic is in CA but their website is short on details?  Says they are an Incorporated company - I really thought they needed more info on the website (legally?).

Don't know... you don't always have to buy stuff depending on the product or complaint... but it depends on where the customer is and where the 'merchant' is (developer is in this case).

Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4605

5/08/13 8:42:40 PM#11

Who says you don't ban beta testers ? A beta tester finds a bug or exploit and reports it. An exploiter keeps using it for personal gain.

With no character wipe all those accounts should at the very least be reset. Banning worked all the same.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Ezhae

Novice Member

Joined: 9/03/06
Posts: 734

5/08/13 8:55:28 PM#12
Originally posted by Gyrus
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

The "Open Beta" label is like a disclaimer 

 

While the game is "not released", it means Cryptic can do almost anything and justify it because it's "still in beta". It also justifies giving the public access to a game that is not full-featured or 100% stable yet, but at the same time the Cash Shop is 100% open for business. So Cryptic can start making money on the game as if it's already released.

What he said^^

Pretty sad really is it not?BTW it is not about Cryptic,Perfect World is handling the publishing and what happens on their servers.

Some players that are higher level are already claiming the game changes a lot to support the cash shop,that would be a misleading game.

Last i read it is actually illegal to mislead a customer on any product.The problem is free to play sort of lets them off the hook.Just another reason F2P is a really bad gimmick.

Yes.  It just occurred to me too... they are 'banning' accounts.

You don't ban accounts from a test... if players do find an exploit (and it's a test) you say "Thank you very much for finding that before the game reached release."

 

So, I have to agree, this game is released.

Players who have been banned should see if they can lodge a complaint with whatever consumer body they have in their country.

I just did a quick search and PW and Cryptic could be hard to nail down... but a complaint directed and Wizards of the Coast (A US based LLC) might get results? (Especially since WotC won't want issues here)

Edit: Cryptic is in CA but their website is short on details?  Says they are an Incorporated company - I really thought they needed more info on the website (legally?).

Don't know... you don't always have to buy stuff depending on the product or complaint... but it depends on where the customer is and where the 'merchant' is (developer is in this case).

Just out of curiosity on what grounds would you complain to WotC? They are just license holder. That's one. Two, games are not public good, if the developer/publisher decides you deserve a ban, going by their standards they can ban you, just like restaurant owner can ask you to leave or even not let you in if you aren't dressed accordingly. 

Sure it's kind of douche move from their side to just ban people without a word of warning first that maybe abusing the Foundry is not exactly how they envision the game, but still it doesn't really break any customer rights since by logging in and creating a character you agreed to their Terms of Service (and ToS is generally considered legally bidning unless it violates your local/federal laws) 

  Gyrus

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 2322

5/08/13 9:00:17 PM#13
Originally posted by DamonVile

Who says you don't ban beta testers ? A beta tester finds a bug or exploit and reports it. An exploiter keeps using it for personal gain.

With no character wipe all those accounts should at the very least be reset. Banning worked all the same.

I sort of agree... but this is the problem with these 'Open Betas' - you shouldn't be allowing people to 'test' your game unless you know they are dedicated testers who know what they are doing and can actually recognise a 'bug' when they see it.

But then when you say "OPEN BETA! KEY GIVEAWAY!" WTF do you expect?  you are not asking for 'quality testers' at that point.

So, as some developers say, they monitor and observe. Exploits are picked up by odd things happening.  True - the 'testers' should have reported it - but if they didn't then they are bad testers only.  Also, you don't open cash shops to 'testers' unless you are prepared refund money.

Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  Gyrus

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 2322

5/08/13 9:07:39 PM#14
Originally posted by Ezhae
Originally posted by Gyrus
.....

Just out of curiosity on what grounds would you complain to WotC? They are just license holder. That's one. Two, games are not public good, if the developer/publisher decides you deserve a ban, going by their standards they can ban you, just like restaurant owner can ask you to leave or even not let you in if you aren't dressed accordingly. 

Sure it's kind of douche move from their side to just ban people without a word of warning first that maybe abusing the Foundry is not exactly how they envision the game, but still it doesn't really break any customer rights since by logging in and creating a character you agreed to their Terms of Service (and ToS is generally considered legally bidning unless it violates your local/federal laws) 

Complain to WotC?

If all else fails the buck stops there - it's their IP.  But it does depend on local laws.

Oh and ToS are not "legally binding" until tested in court.   Several have been overturned even in the US.  It's simply a case of waiting on a really good test case.   Which is a problem admittedly - since it's not worth a court case for $25... although in some countries the consumer body will take things to court on behalf of all consumers if they think there is a case.

 

Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  jpnole

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/13/10
Posts: 1650

5/08/13 9:22:30 PM#15
Originally posted by jusomdude
Are current characters getting wiped at release? Just want to know if I should keep playing or wait for release.

type "neverwinter open beta wipe" into Google

1st Google result:

 

http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=849741

 

 

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2894

I actually still like MMORPGs

5/08/13 11:37:32 PM#16
CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT!!!!

  Ezhae

Novice Member

Joined: 9/03/06
Posts: 734

5/09/13 5:47:39 AM#17
Originally posted by Gyrus
 

Complain to WotC?

If all else fails the buck stops there - it's their IP.  But it does depend on local laws.

Oh and ToS are not "legally binding" until tested in court.   Several have been overturned even in the US.  It's simply a case of waiting on a really good test case.   Which is a problem admittedly - since it's not worth a court case for $25... although in some countries the consumer body will take things to court on behalf of all consumers if they think there is a case.

 

Good luck challenging ToS on basis of being banned for alleged exploiting flaw in game design. It usually only works if they mess up with handling private data and even that rarely works out in courts. It's not the same as EULA that is pretty much worthless, ToS is a contract you agree to the moment you create account. Hell there even been several cases where ToS was basis for the company to sue the user and the companies won.

If it was that easy and common you'd see plenty of lawsuits against Steam for banning cheaters accounts worth way more than 25$. 

  Gyrus

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 2322

5/09/13 6:30:54 AM#18
Originally posted by Ezhae
Originally posted by Gyrus
 

Complain to WotC?

If all else fails the buck stops there - it's their IP.  But it does depend on local laws.

Oh and ToS are not "legally binding" until tested in court.   Several have been overturned even in the US.  It's simply a case of waiting on a really good test case.   Which is a problem admittedly - since it's not worth a court case for $25... although in some countries the consumer body will take things to court on behalf of all consumers if they think there is a case.

 

Good luck challenging ToS on basis of being banned for alleged exploiting flaw in game design. It usually only works if they mess up with handling private data and even that rarely works out in courts. It's not the same as EULA that is pretty much worthless, ToS is a contract you agree to the moment you create account. Hell there even been several cases where ToS was basis for the company to sue the user and the companies won.

If it was that easy and common you'd see plenty of lawsuits against Steam for banning cheaters accounts worth way more than 25$. 

Well, for a start - exactly how would a ToS hold up for a game that is still, allegedly, in Beta?

I mean, Terms of Service, implies a Service is being provided and that a commercial arrangement of sorts exists?

And if the game is in Beta (still in testing) then they are not providing a Service - since they cannot guarantee that service since they are still testing it?

 

As for law suits and ToS, EULA, consumer rights and other things related: I find that people usually don't know their rights, aren't prepared to stand up for their rights, think it would be too much trouble to stand up for their rights or simply don't like to complain.  Then with the internet, there are issues about how and where those rights apply?

For example, I can tell you for a fact that half the games I own have EULAs and ToS that do not apply to me, or apply in part, or simply are not needed since other laws cover the same things (copyright laws for example).

But in the event of a problem - I cannot do anything since I downloaded the game from a company I knew was overseas from where I live.  That's a big issue too.

I also know that consumer protection laws regarding software and "shrink wrap contracts" in the US are pathetic.  Frankly I am surprised US citizens aren't talking to their representatives about it- getting the laws changed...

As for Steam - I don't know where you live - but where I live online software prices and services are under investigation.

Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.