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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Proof of sandbox popularity?

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228 posts found
  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8894

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  5/07/13 3:49:16 PM#41
Originally posted by Tierless

Still not there yet...lets try this.

I think most experienced MMO players prefer skilltree  based over classbased..... the feature should be added to a true sandbox, but can be added to any themepark too..

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  rockin_ufo

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 377

Zoraï

5/07/13 3:49:56 PM#42
Or, you know, we all have opinions and some prefer Themeparks to Sandbox. Who cares? Why fight about it? Play your game and calm the hell down.

Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--

  Vahrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 383

5/07/13 3:50:48 PM#43
Originally posted by Drakynn
I really don't see the point of this poll personally.All it will prove is that a active group on this site prefers one or the other.It would in no way constitute proof either way when applied to the whole market.

Using statistical analysis one could infer information about the overall population of mmorpg players using the small sample from mmorpg.com.  The only truly flawed thing about the poll here is that it is a voluntary response poll and thus not a totally random sample. 

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

5/07/13 3:51:00 PM#44
Market has been very clear the last 7 years. 'Make wow clones' Sandbox is the minority.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1707

5/07/13 3:51:58 PM#45

You could argue that the number of Minecraft "units" sold is a good indicator that sandbox games are popular. The biggest factors holding back sandbox mmos could be broken down to two very general categories. First, whenever we get a sandbox style mmo, it also seems to be coupled with Free-for-all pvp, which is not a popular feature among the mmo crowd. Out the gate, the game is already niche. Secondly, there just doesn't seem to be very many developers who know what they are doing attempting to make sandbox games. There seems to have been very little polish on the vast majority of sandbox mmos.

EVE and UO have been exceptions to the norm, but then again, both games were made by developers who seemingly have much love for the games they created, and weren't looking for a quick buck.

In all honesty, sandbox style games are probably better suited to the realm of multiplayer gaming, rather than an mmo setting. Sandbox means a lot of things to a lot of people, and I think it's hard to find a general consensus of what sandbox can mean to everyone. Additionally, there's varying degrees of themepark elements that are accepted in sandbox games to some, but not all.

Minecraft, again, is a good example of this. A minecraft mmo probably wouldn't work. However, there are tons of private servers where those who populate them agree upon the rules of their server. Some people love FTB style mods and play on servers that are setup for FTB or allow mods, etc. However, you have a good number of folks who prefer the vanilla game and play on servers with those rules. Even in a singular game, minecraft, there is far too great of variation of preferred playstyles to really pin into a mmo setting.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8894

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  5/07/13 3:55:31 PM#46
Originally posted by krage

I dont know why the two must be separate, imo I would like a hybrid that has linear themepark levelling/training experience that expands on the worlds lore and systems. That then leads into an open ended sandbox with player created content or even GM lead events that then leads back into an evolving story of the world...where that living lore is then translated into themepark expansions. Basically:

Start Themepark-----> Sandbox endgame ------>expansion themepark content builds from sandbox evolution-----> back to sandbox------>on and on and on.... lol

I think there is definitely room for both, problem I see with most games is they focus on doing only one.

Themepark games end up with themepark endgames that are very repetitive with artifical timesinks to extend the content

and

Sandbox games that are so broad from the start that it has player retention issues and a massive tendency to focus on open world pvp (which I am a fan of) that leads to intimidation of the larger portion of mmo crowds...being pve'rs/explorers/merchants...non hardcore pvpers.

 

When a company finally mixes the two styles successfully we will see a solid virtual world/mmo instead of a big unguided bludgeonfest (Current Sandboxes) or uninspired gear treadmill timesinks (Themeparks).

I really dispise games that change when they reach max level...  leaving behind the stuff that was good and which i loved for all that time is just stupid...

 

Sandbox...   should start from the go... with no hard levels...   skilltrees... and gear determining your power  and how strong you actually are... You die, you loose all your gear, need to start over, unless you reach your death boddy first... or have equall gear in your lockbox/vault.   Much like the orriginal UO or in EvE.  replace your spaceships with your gear and there you have it EvE in a full fantasy world.  

 

 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  udon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1646

5/07/13 3:55:36 PM#47
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by simsalabim77
EVE Online is pretty popular, but it's a niche audience for sure. It just happens that people who prefer that niche are extremely loud on these forums. 

Without using the word WoW, name a themepark that has more subs.

Without using the word EVE point out a sandbox that has a large player base?

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

5/07/13 3:57:22 PM#48


Originally posted by Vahrane

Originally posted by Drakynn I really don't see the point of this poll personally.All it will prove is that a active group on this site prefers one or the other.It would in no way constitute proof either way when applied to the whole market.
Using statistical analysis one could infer information about the overall population of mmorpg players using the small sample from mmorpg.com.  The only truly flawed thing about the poll here is that it is a voluntary response poll and thus not a totally random sample. 


There are a lot of things wrong with polls on sites like these. One is that the people are opting themselves in. Two is the question and poll options; do they actually reflect the information that we want to know? Third is that there is no additional information about the people responding other than their answers. How many hours a week to each of the responders play MMOs? Which MMOs do they play? Do they play games besides MMOs? There's almost nothing about polls on these forums that is 'right'. The only thing these polls might be used for is to get an idea of how people on these forums think, and even that is suspect because of how the questions and poll options are worded.

** ** **

If you're going to use statistical analysis, you would start your science before the poll was even offered up, and you wouldn't use the polls that this site offers.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Vahrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 383

5/07/13 4:02:48 PM#49
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Vahrane

Originally posted by Drakynn I really don't see the point of this poll personally.All it will prove is that a active group on this site prefers one or the other.It would in no way constitute proof either way when applied to the whole market.
Using statistical analysis one could infer information about the overall population of mmorpg players using the small sample from mmorpg.com.  The only truly flawed thing about the poll here is that it is a voluntary response poll and thus not a totally random sample. 


There are a lot of things wrong with polls on sites like these. One is that the people are opting themselves in. Two is the question and poll options; do they actually reflect the information that we want to know? Third is that there is no additional information about the people responding other than their answers. How many hours a week to each of the responders play MMOs? Which MMOs do they play? Do they play games besides MMOs? There's almost nothing about polls on these forums that is 'right'. The only thing these polls might be used for is to get an idea of how people on these forums think, and even that is suspect because of how the questions and poll options are worded.

** ** **

If you're going to use statistical analysis, you would start your science before the poll was even offered up, and you wouldn't use the polls that this site offers.

 

      None of this, besides the first point (which I mentioned), would disqualify the information in this poll from being applicable to the overall population. It's a binomial distribution. Meaning there are two choices either you prefer sandbox mmos (yes) or you prefer themeparks (no, do not prefer sandboxes).

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3545

Hipster

5/07/13 4:03:36 PM#50
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by simsalabim77
EVE Online is pretty popular, but it's a niche audience for sure. It just happens that people who prefer that niche are extremely loud on these forums. 

Without using the word WoW, name a themepark that has more subs.

Without using the word EVE point out a sandbox that has a large player base?

Skyrim, Minecraft, The Sims, Etropia

  Shadowguy64

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 880

5/07/13 4:10:18 PM#51
Would a sandbox work for a non-PVP centric crowd?
  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

5/07/13 4:11:22 PM#52
If we are are naming single player games, Call of duty beats every game out there and thats a theme park

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4941

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

5/07/13 4:13:15 PM#53

Well if you are going to consider those games, which you could because the OP did not specifically ask for MMO.

You could also consider then all the MOBA as they are essentially themepark, and games like d3, CoD.  And of course even older games like supermario, or sonic...

Which of course destroy's sandbox. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

5/07/13 4:14:04 PM#54
There is plenty of proof that single-player sandboxes are very popular.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3545

Hipster

5/07/13 4:14:05 PM#55
Originally posted by jpnz
If we are are naming single player games, Call of duty beats every game out there and thats a theme park

The question asked was name a sandbox with a large playerbase, not name a sandbox more popular than the most popular themepark. Themeparks are more popular than sandboxes, probably always will be as they are simpler for people and more casual, that doesn't mean that sandboxes are not popular also.

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4941

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

5/07/13 4:14:31 PM#56
Originally posted by Shadowguy64
Would a sandbox work for a non-PVP centric crowd?

pve sandbox would work just fine. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  IsilithTehroth

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/05
Posts: 155

5/07/13 4:27:30 PM#57

What happened was most of the older mmorpgs were sandbox or themepark with sandbox features and limits. After the release of WoW(Which has FFA PVP, defusing the debate on sandbox players not like PVP anywhere) they tried to copy WoW removing all aspects of sandbox from games that tried to clone its success. Instead of trying to be different and unique games had a model to follow and follow they did even if it spelled doom.

 

Sandbox mmorpgs were decent from the start (SWG, Uo and variant themepark that weren't part of the status quo model like DAOC and SB), but over time as more casual people entered the market the demographics changed and what the causal people were railed into thinking was fun became the norm. There are some companies that tried to make sandbox mmorpgs, but since they don't have proper funding and experience they tend to flop.(They need to give equal freedom to all play styles, the pvpers, pvers, crafters and explorers) Once companies start product AAA mmorpgs that shake up the status quo we will see better games.

 

Optimally the best mmorpg would be sandbox with some themepark elements attached.

MurderHerd

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

5/07/13 4:28:53 PM#58
Originally posted by Vahrane
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Vahrane

Originally posted by Drakynn I really don't see the point of this poll personally.All it will prove is that a active group on this site prefers one or the other.It would in no way constitute proof either way when applied to the whole market.
Using statistical analysis one could infer information about the overall population of mmorpg players using the small sample from mmorpg.com.  The only truly flawed thing about the poll here is that it is a voluntary response poll and thus not a totally random sample. 


There are a lot of things wrong with polls on sites like these. One is that the people are opting themselves in. Two is the question and poll options; do they actually reflect the information that we want to know? Third is that there is no additional information about the people responding other than their answers. How many hours a week to each of the responders play MMOs? Which MMOs do they play? Do they play games besides MMOs? There's almost nothing about polls on these forums that is 'right'. The only thing these polls might be used for is to get an idea of how people on these forums think, and even that is suspect because of how the questions and poll options are worded.

** ** **

If you're going to use statistical analysis, you would start your science before the poll was even offered up, and you wouldn't use the polls that this site offers.

 

      None of this, besides the first point (which I mentioned), would disqualify the information in this poll from being applicable to the overall population. It's a binomial distribution. Meaning there are two choices either you prefer sandbox mmos (yes) or you prefer themeparks (no, do not prefer sandboxes).

But the first point is crucial.Without a randomly selected cross section of the gaming populace of sufficient size the result will be skewed and unreliable.Which was the point of my post in the first place.Any extrapolation form this poll is flawed from the start.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8894

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  5/07/13 4:37:02 PM#59
Originally posted by DarkLordIxor

What happened was most of the older mmorpgs were sandbox or themepark with sandbox features and limits. After the release of WoW(Which has FFA PVP, defusing the debate on sandbox players not like PVP anywhere) they tried to copy WoW removing all aspects of sandbox from games that tried to clone its success. Instead of trying to be different and unique games had a model to follow and follow they did even if it spelled doom.

 

Sandbox mmorpgs were decent from the start (SWG, Uo and variant themepark that weren't part of the status quo model like DAOC and SB), but over time as more casual people entered the market the demographics changed and what the causal people were railed into thinking was fun became the norm. There are some companies that tried to make sandbox mmorpgs, but since they don't have proper funding and experience they tend to flop.(They need to give equal freedom to all play styles, the pvpers, pvers, crafters and explorers) Once companies start product AAA mmorpgs that shake up the status quo we will see better games.

 

Optimally the best mmorpg would be sandbox with some themepark elements attached.

Some of the older sandbox games  became sandboxes becase they lacked content, ... So people cae up with their own reasons to play.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  H3deon

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/13
Posts: 37

5/07/13 4:43:43 PM#60
Originally posted by Shadowguy64
Would a sandbox work for a non-PVP centric crowd?

would bet alot on a PvE sandbox would work 100x better than a PvP sandbox.....for the majority....but guess need some proof for that ; )

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