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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » 8 months in. Did GW2 break from the WoW formula?

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174 posts found
  DKLond

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 578

5/08/13 1:57:44 PM#101
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by DKLond

Yes, I really think that some people are overestimating how brilliant the GW2 ideas are. But, as I said, that's just my opinion.

Your opinion makes you an arrogant person who thinks he knows better than everyone else what's "good for them", just like extremists in "real life" are. If someone thinks GW2 is brilliant, who are you to dispute his opinion? Are you also doing the same to people who like specific food, or are part of a specific religion, or whatever else?

The answer is simple. You are nobody. In "real life", people like you oppress those who don't think like they do, because they think their opinion is "god sent", but thankfully this doesn't work on the Internet.

I think GW2 is the best MMORPG release since Asheron's Call 1. You can kiss the darkest part of my lily white if you don't agree. Enjoy that and chew on it, I know it's going to be a hard bone for you to accept.

Why these fantasy scenarios and strawmen? Is that something you have to invent to feel better about yourself?

I don't believe I've mentioned what's good for other people. I believe I've said they're overestimating the brilliance of a game. In that same way, I think Avatar is an overrated movie.

I'm disputing an opinion because I disagree with it. That's what happens when you participate on a public forum dedicated to discussing games that people don't agree on.

That's not the same as oppression - though I can see how you would think that if you're particularly sensitive and can't really handle opposing opinions and being challenged.

I have no doubt that you think I'm "nobody" - it sort of fits with how you present yourself in general.

So, thank you for demonstrating your fanaticism and supporting what I'm saying about some of the GW2 fans - who can't quite articulate their opinion without insults and who can't quite accept opposite points of view without calling those who hold them arrogant and extremist nobodies. Oh, and hamsters - right?

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5212

5/08/13 2:03:50 PM#102

I don't get this "WoW mold" crap.

Want to know what game started out in the "WoW mold" but evolved into something completely different from what it started out as? It's a game called World of Warcraft.

There is no WoW mold people. Every game has changed. Even Rift. That game started as probably the most successful game that most closely replicated the model. And by the end of it's vanilla release, it had become nothing like WoW. Oddly enough, Rift is closer to the original WoW than WoW itself currently is. And neither really resemble it all that closely now anyway.

 

Why are MMO players so obsessed with WoW? Why can't we just find concepts and mechanics that work and use them while losing the ones that don't work and we don't like and not care about who used them previously?  So what if ANET didn't "invent" dynamic events? So what if other games used them (or not)? Take what works and use it and improve on it. I'm going to be honest. I think one of ANET's biggest mistakes is that they tried too hard to NOT be WoW so much so that they avoided many things that would have worked with a bit of refinement. Instead, they tried to re-invent too many wheels.

I'll tell you what. If they had copied some things from WoW and it was for the better, you can sit there and shout "WoW clone" til you're blue in the face. I wouldn't care because I'd be too busy enjoying it.

 

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  fantasyfreak112

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 523

5/08/13 2:11:01 PM#103

In some ways GW2 is more WoW then WoW itself. You don't even have to have a chat bar in GW2 as there's no reason to ever say anything to anyone in that game. You don't have to grab quests or even min max gear and keybinds for raids.

GW2 is actually more themepark then WoW is. Never thought that would happen.

  JoeyMMO

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1334

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

5/08/13 3:09:01 PM#104

GW2 sure isn't WoW, it's broken away from itt in many ways.

No gear threadmill.

No tradtional quest hubs that become useless once you outlevel them.

Level playing field in PvP.

No Trinity.

More active combat with dodging.

The game just looks a whole lot better overall.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2893

There... are... four... lights!

5/08/13 3:25:19 PM#105
Originally posted by DKLond

Why these fantasy scenarios and strawmen? Is that something you have to invent to feel better about yourself?

I don't believe I've mentioned what's good for other people. I believe I've said they're overestimating the brilliance of a game. In that same way, I think Avatar is an overrated movie.

So that I can't be accused of making up things, I'm gonna quote your original post again:

Originally posted by DKLond

So, in the end, GW2 was a great idea in theory and it's executed very well. But, in practice, the idea isn't as good as so many people keep insisting it is. It SHOULD be in their minds - but it's really not.

So if people enjoy GW2, it's only in their minds, in your little arrogant opinion. Gotcha.

Same goes for people enjoying Avatar, by the way. You not liking the movie doesn't make those people's opinion wrong. Read my signature. Actually, those people so wrong about Avatar are the majority, by the way.

Yes, people enjoy GW2 a lot, and they are NOT overestimating anything. It's just that the game is made for them, and not for you. Your lack of tolerance for things you don't like doesn't make those things bad.

You may think you're so superior to the average human IN YOUR MIND - but you're not ;)

Actually, I think I'm going to grab my Avatar collector edition blu-ray and have some fun on my home cinema tonight. Thanks for that.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  stevebombsquad

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 668

5/08/13 3:49:58 PM#106
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by stevebombsquad

Comparing UO to those other games isn't quite fair as it is a sandbox and not a themepark.

Did you really read what I posted? I was comparing one feature of UO. Neither in UO nor in GW2 does the game begin at max level, unlike all the EQ/WoW clones.

And by the way... how can you pretend being a judge on sandboxes and theme parks with what you regularly post here? You are the prototype of theme park raid grind player. Your post history clearly shows it. Give us a break, will you? -1

You have no idea what games I have played. SWG happens to be my favorite game and I also love UO. I have also done my fair share of raiding and played themeparks. Don't speak about what you have no idea. I always speak out in favor of sandboxes. 

The problem with GW2 for a lot of people (as I see it anyway) is that there is nothing of consequence after reaching max level. The downlevelling is of no consequence as repeating content with nothing to gain  becomes boring. The same applies to killing world bosses, doing dungeons, or even the PvP. Once you have seen and done the content, there is little to encourage or interest the average player to keep doing the content. The lack of progression with tangible results is a turn-off for some people.

Tangible results? Purple items that become obsolete each new patch/raid? Talk about worthless items, talk about a waste of time. At least in GW2, once I found the gear I like, I know it won't become useless next patch. -1

Sure they are tangible results. As I level I get stronger. I get better gear. I feel a sense of progression. What is so hard about that to understand. It doesn't even have to be a gear treadmill. There is just a lack of a sense of progression. I am not "bashing" you for what you like, I just merely proposed a reason for why so many people may feel that there is no endgame or real sense of progression to keep them engaged. You are the one who took it offensively. 

Other things like a game wide auction house also detract from the end game experience. I know lots of people that play MMOs for crafting alone and like to try to corner the market on their server for certain goods and earn a reputation. This also is not a viable option.

A guildie of mine has over 500g on his name just playing the AH and cornering the market. Don't limit what's possible to the limits of your own imagination. A game wide AH actually avoids smaller servers to have crazy high prices for common goods, which harms all players on that server. I hope more games will adopt that model in the future.

This is your opinion. I know lots of people who prefer a server style as each server develops its own market. It creates more of a community environment. 

Like you, I believe that GW2 is a good game, but I also understand why people feel the way they do and why the game may not hold the longevity or be the "main" game for a lot of people. 

Since every single post of yours is bashing GW2, I really don't want to read anything from you about a game you really dislike then. -1

Not every post I make is bashing it. There are some where state it is a good game. It just didn't hit the mark with me. I personally don't care what you want to read. I come here to discuss games. GW2 is far from perfect and I am not afraid to admit it. My favorite game was SWG, and I will be the first to admit its shortcomings. I also didn't bash people for having an opinion or posting about it. One of us is a little sensitive and it isn't me......

As far as the "you played it wrong" comment, I would be more apt to say that GW2 isn't able to be played the way that you want it to be. The system they designed is not a flexible one, and it appeals to a certain group of players. You really shouldn't bash someone because they don't fall into that group. 

No game can be played exactly the way you want to, not even sandbox games. Try to play chess like you play checkers, and prepare for defeat. GW2 is still more flexible than any EQ/WoW clone, because unlike those games, GW2 does NOT force you into a single play style when comes that damned thing people name "end game". And telling someone he played it wrong isn't bashing. If I saw someone play chess like checkers, I'd also tell him that he's playing it wrong. Keep your indignation for when people really insult each other. -1

Again you commit another logical fallacy. I didn't say that the other games allowed you to be more flexible than GW2. They system in GW2 is different and doesn't suit some play styles.

 

You really need to ease up a little. Not everyone is going to like everything about your "precious" game. None of the things I stated are wrong as it was my opinon and conjecture. I am glad that you have found a game that you love. I just don't happen to love it as much as you. Some of the mechanics are not to my liking. While I state things and reasons as to why parts of the game were not to my liking, you feel the need to bash me for having an opinion. I hope you have a nice day and that youcan find some time to play that game you love so much instead of bashing people who do not share your opinion.

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  DKLond

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 578

5/08/13 3:51:54 PM#107
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by DKLond

Why these fantasy scenarios and strawmen? Is that something you have to invent to feel better about yourself?

I don't believe I've mentioned what's good for other people. I believe I've said they're overestimating the brilliance of a game. In that same way, I think Avatar is an overrated movie.

So that I can't be accused of making up things, I'm gonna quote your original post again:

Originally posted by DKLond

So, in the end, GW2 was a great idea in theory and it's executed very well. But, in practice, the idea isn't as good as so many people keep insisting it is. It SHOULD be in their minds - but it's really not.

So if people enjoy GW2, it's only in their minds, in your little arrogant opinion. Gotcha.

Same goes for people enjoying Avatar, by the way. You not liking the movie doesn't make those people's opinion wrong. Read my signature. Actually, those people so wrong about Avatar are the majority, by the way.

Yes, people enjoy GW2 a lot, and they are NOT overestimating anything. It's just that the game is made for them, and not for you. Your lack of tolerance for things you don't like doesn't make those things bad.

You may think you're so superior to the average human IN YOUR MIND - but you're not ;)

Yes, if I think a movie is overrated - then it's better in the minds of the people who like it that much - than I think it is. Are you telling me you don't understand what these simple things mean?

It doesn't mean I'm oppressing people - it means I disagree and that I think they're overestimating the movie.

That doesn't make me arrogant - it makes me a person who disagrees with them.

I haven't said anything like people are not enjoying themselves or they're delusional. That's another fantasy scenario in your mind - so you can keep being irrational about your position. You insist on belittling people who disagree with you over and over again. That's your whole approach to criticism. That makes your position weak.

I'm saying they're overstating the quality of the GW2 concepts and that those concepts do have flaws if you open your eyes. THEY can have great fun - but that doesn't mean the ideas are fantastic. You used to have a lot of fun in WoW - for instance - so I guess all the ideas were great? That's silly.

I'm not saying people are wrong - or that I'm right, objectively. Objective truth is not something I can determine. I can just have an opinion about what's right and wrong.

You, however, are clearly telling me in a very factual way that people are not overestimating anything - as if they couldn't possibly be wrong - which is of course those who agree with you.

GW2 isn't made for them and not for me. It's just a game that people can think about what they like. My tolerance has nothing to do with it. My preferences have something to do with it.

I'm not superior or inferior. I'm just a human being with an opinion.

It's as if you think you're convincing when you keep saying the same things over and over. Unfortunately, you're having the opposite effect. The more you insist on being irrational - the less convincing you become.

But please go on - I'd love to hear more convincing stuff about how GW2 is fantastic and people who agree with you can't be wrong. I don't think it's all THAT good - just pretty good in some ways and bad in others. That means I'm wrong or intolerant. That's pretty amusing :)

I suppose you have the right to be that silly - but I have the right not to take you seriously. Which comes pretty easily the more you talk :)

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2893

There... are... four... lights!

5/08/13 3:57:15 PM#108
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Sure they are tangible results. As I level I get stronger. I get better gear. I feel a sense of progression. What is so hard about that to understand. It doesn't even have to be a gear treadmill. There is just a lack of a sense of progression. I am not "bashing" you for what you like, I just merely proposed a reason for why so many people may feel that there is no endgame or real sense of progression to keep them engaged. You are the one who took it offensively.

The tangible results are only in your own mind. As I said, when the next raid is released, your actual gear will be obsolete, crap, a pile of junk, and you will have to grind all over again. All those people who follow that famous "gear carrot" are only slaves of their own minds, victims of the attraction of virtual power and gear in a video game. At the end of the day, as I said, that jumping puzzle I just completed for the fun of it doesn't matter less than that purple gear item you got after a month of raiding 3 days a week for 3 hours per night.

I've been there, done that, so I'm not "bashing" people who are like that, but it's a fact. Being a slave of a gear grind doesn't make a game fun - it just forces people to stay subscribed because if they don't, they will fall behind in the gear grind and be unable to participate once they decide to come back. GW2 doesn't do that. That's why it's not a WoW clone, and yes, it broke the WoW clone model, for the greater good of the whole MMORPG genre.

 

[mod edit]

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  stevebombsquad

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 668

5/08/13 5:28:24 PM#109
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Sure they are tangible results. As I level I get stronger. I get better gear. I feel a sense of progression. What is so hard about that to understand. It doesn't even have to be a gear treadmill. There is just a lack of a sense of progression. I am not "bashing" you for what you like, I just merely proposed a reason for why so many people may feel that there is no endgame or real sense of progression to keep them engaged. You are the one who took it offensively.

The tangible results are only in your own mind. As I said, when the next raid is released, your actual gear will be obsolete, crap, a pile of junk, and you will have to grind all over again. All those people who follow that famous "gear carrot" are only slaves of their own minds, victims of the attraction of virtual power and gear in a video game. At the end of the day, as I said, that jumping puzzle I just completed for the fun of it doesn't matter less than that purple gear item you got after a month of raiding 3 days a week for 3 hours per night.

I've been there, done that, so I'm not "bashing" people who are like that, but it's a fact. Being a slave of a gear grind doesn't make a game fun - it just forces people to stay subscribed because if they don't, they will fall behind in the gear grind and be unable to participate once they decide to come back. GW2 doesn't do that. That's why it's not a WoW clone, and yes, it broke the WoW clone model, for the greater good of the whole MMORPG genre.

 

[mod edit]

Why are you trying to dictate what is "fun" to me. Fun is a very subjective thing. By doing so, you prove my point. You do try to force your ideas and beliefs on others. What you find fun might vary greatly from what I do. You are bashing people for what they think is fun and telling them they are wrong. If you think I enjoy raiding for the gear grind then you have it all wrong. I would hazard to say the majority of raiders don't play just for the gear. A lot of people enjoy the teamwork, conversation, and the overcoming adversity with a group of people. They enjoy playing their roles and being good at their in game professions. The gear is just an added benny. In reality, my favorite game had zero raiding, but had a player crafting based economy so raiding isn't a must for me. Gear is a tangible reward. It serves its purpose and increases the power of the character giving a sense of progression. It might not be my preferred method of progression, but it is one.

In GW2, once I have the set I want, what is there left to do? Recycle events? I am mainly a PvE player, but even the PvP is without consequence. You think I hate GW2, but I don't. I still play it. I treat it like a console game. When new content comes out, I play through that content and then shelve it until some more comes along. Is it my favorite game? No. I am only stating some reasons as to why a lot of people most likely complain about the "end game", and I think what I said holds true whether you want to admit it or not. 

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

5/08/13 5:41:16 PM#110

Oh it broke away alright. It took MMOs into an even crappier direction. We had WoW gives us tank charging through dungeons, now with GW2 everyone tries to zerg every boss like a Keep Lord. Forget the adds or the intended mechanics, just ZERG ZERG ZERG. Because of this, future MMO's are going to have to make healers less healy and tanks less tanky and make everyone equally capable of DPS. I'm afraid GW2 broke the trinity, and any sense of strategy in MMOs, most likely forever.

It's a dying genre, commercial success and art are two different things. When crappy media sells it doesn't mean a media or art is still doing good, it just means there are that many stupid people out there supporting bad products if they stroke their ego enough.

There will be a few titles that try to be more traditional, but as they fail, we'll never see them again.

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  Latronus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 718

PC is not political correctness, it means Political Cowardice!

5/08/13 5:42:38 PM#111
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by Manolios
Originally posted by pmiles

Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

 

Still no subscription fees... check

Still no trinity... check

 

Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

 

Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

 

Don't you just love trends?

 

wow is running in circles while gw2 is making improvements...thats an experts opinion i guess?

hmmm gw2 after only 8 months has ''lost'' how many of the daily player base? maybe half? and its a game you only pay once. imagine this game with a sub? i guess you just cant...

wow after almost 10 years has more than 7m subs. not free or b2p users but subs. can you understant the difference?

and yes, we all love trends :)

Spot on.

Spot on?  Really?  That;s why what, over half of those "subs" are Asain players that pay for time and not the entire month so if one wants to play for 1 hour your beloved Blizzard counts them the same as a monthly sub.  Guess you fanbois are blinded by the BS that Blizzard keeps spitting out.  Spot on, more like a skid mark in a 3 year old under-roos.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3101

I am more than some of my parts

5/08/13 5:44:01 PM#112
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Sure they are tangible results. As I level I get stronger. I get better gear. I feel a sense of progression. What is so hard about that to understand. It doesn't even have to be a gear treadmill. There is just a lack of a sense of progression. I am not "bashing" you for what you like, I just merely proposed a reason for why so many people may feel that there is no endgame or real sense of progression to keep them engaged. You are the one who took it offensively.

The tangible results are only in your own mind. As I said, when the next raid is released, your actual gear will be obsolete, crap, a pile of junk, and you will have to grind all over again. All those people who follow that famous "gear carrot" are only slaves of their own minds, victims of the attraction of virtual power and gear in a video game. At the end of the day, as I said, that jumping puzzle I just completed for the fun of it doesn't matter less than that purple gear item you got after a month of raiding 3 days a week for 3 hours per night.

I've been there, done that, so I'm not "bashing" people who are like that, but it's a fact. Being a slave of a gear grind doesn't make a game fun - it just forces people to stay subscribed because if they don't, they will fall behind in the gear grind and be unable to participate once they decide to come back. GW2 doesn't do that. That's why it's not a WoW clone, and yes, it broke the WoW clone model, for the greater good of the whole MMORPG genre.

 

[mod edit]

Why are you trying to dictate what is "fun" to me. Fun is a very subjective thing. By doing so, you prove my point. You do try to force your ideas and beliefs on others. What you find fun might vary greatly from what I do. You are bashing people for what they think is fun and telling them they are wrong. If you think I enjoy raiding for the gear grind then you have it all wrong. I would hazard to say the majority of raiders don't play just for the gear. A lot of people enjoy the teamwork, conversation, and the overcoming adversity with a group of people. They enjoy playing their roles and being good at their in game professions. The gear is just an added benny. In reality, my favorite game had zero raiding, but had a player crafting based economy so raiding isn't a must for me. Gear is a tangible reward. It serves its purpose and increases the power of the character giving a sense of progression. It might not be my preferred method of progression, but it is one.

In GW2, once I have the set I want, what is there left to do? Recycle events? I am mainly a PvE player, but even the PvP is without consequence. You think I hate GW2, but I don't. I still play it. I treat it like a console game. When new content comes out, I play through that content and then shelve it until some more comes along. Is it my favorite game? No. I am only stating some reasons as to why a lot of people most likely complain about the "end game", and I think what I said holds true whether you want to admit it or not. 

So you would enjoy raiding if there wasn't any rewards? No loot. No gear progression?

 

 

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  stevebombsquad

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 668

5/08/13 5:47:54 PM#113
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Sure they are tangible results. As I level I get stronger. I get better gear. I feel a sense of progression. What is so hard about that to understand. It doesn't even have to be a gear treadmill. There is just a lack of a sense of progression. I am not "bashing" you for what you like, I just merely proposed a reason for why so many people may feel that there is no endgame or real sense of progression to keep them engaged. You are the one who took it offensively.

The tangible results are only in your own mind. As I said, when the next raid is released, your actual gear will be obsolete, crap, a pile of junk, and you will have to grind all over again. All those people who follow that famous "gear carrot" are only slaves of their own minds, victims of the attraction of virtual power and gear in a video game. At the end of the day, as I said, that jumping puzzle I just completed for the fun of it doesn't matter less than that purple gear item you got after a month of raiding 3 days a week for 3 hours per night.

I've been there, done that, so I'm not "bashing" people who are like that, but it's a fact. Being a slave of a gear grind doesn't make a game fun - it just forces people to stay subscribed because if they don't, they will fall behind in the gear grind and be unable to participate once they decide to come back. GW2 doesn't do that. That's why it's not a WoW clone, and yes, it broke the WoW clone model, for the greater good of the whole MMORPG genre.

 

[mod edit]

Why are you trying to dictate what is "fun" to me. Fun is a very subjective thing. By doing so, you prove my point. You do try to force your ideas and beliefs on others. What you find fun might vary greatly from what I do. You are bashing people for what they think is fun and telling them they are wrong. If you think I enjoy raiding for the gear grind then you have it all wrong. I would hazard to say the majority of raiders don't play just for the gear. A lot of people enjoy the teamwork, conversation, and the overcoming adversity with a group of people. They enjoy playing their roles and being good at their in game professions. The gear is just an added benny. In reality, my favorite game had zero raiding, but had a player crafting based economy so raiding isn't a must for me. Gear is a tangible reward. It serves its purpose and increases the power of the character giving a sense of progression. It might not be my preferred method of progression, but it is one.

In GW2, once I have the set I want, what is there left to do? Recycle events? I am mainly a PvE player, but even the PvP is without consequence. You think I hate GW2, but I don't. I still play it. I treat it like a console game. When new content comes out, I play through that content and then shelve it until some more comes along. Is it my favorite game? No. I am only stating some reasons as to why a lot of people most likely complain about the "end game", and I think what I said holds true whether you want to admit it or not. 

So you would enjoy raiding if there wasn't any rewards? No loot. No gear progression?

 

 

Yes I would. Gear progression is such a small part of it. Most raiders I know don't play for the gear. Sometimes I think some of you have never been in a "good" raiding guild with skilled players. I also like the organization of a good guild. I am a former military guy and I like playing defined roles in large fights with everyone having their own responsibilities and contributing to the team effort. What is so hard to understand about that?

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  Bad.dog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 1155

5/08/13 6:38:42 PM#114
Originally posted by wordiz

Oh it broke away alright. It took MMOs into an even crappier direction. We had WoW gives us tank charging through dungeons, now with GW2 everyone tries to zerg every boss like a Keep Lord. Forget the adds or the intended mechanics, just ZERG ZERG ZERG. Because of this, future MMO's are going to have to make healers less healy and tanks less tanky and make everyone equally capable of DPS. I'm afraid GW2 broke the trinity, and any sense of strategy in MMOs, most likely forever.

It's a dying genre, commercial success and art are two different things. When crappy media sells it doesn't mean a media or art is still doing good, it just means there are that many stupid people out there supporting bad products if they stroke their ego enough.

There will be a few titles that try to be more traditional, but as they fail, we'll never see them again.

I'm confused ....are 5 man runs now zergs ?

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3101

I am more than some of my parts

5/08/13 6:44:38 PM#115
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Sure they are tangible results. As I level I get stronger. I get better gear. I feel a sense of progression. What is so hard about that to understand. It doesn't even have to be a gear treadmill. There is just a lack of a sense of progression. I am not "bashing" you for what you like, I just merely proposed a reason for why so many people may feel that there is no endgame or real sense of progression to keep them engaged. You are the one who took it offensively.

The tangible results are only in your own mind. As I said, when the next raid is released, your actual gear will be obsolete, crap, a pile of junk, and you will have to grind all over again. All those people who follow that famous "gear carrot" are only slaves of their own minds, victims of the attraction of virtual power and gear in a video game. At the end of the day, as I said, that jumping puzzle I just completed for the fun of it doesn't matter less than that purple gear item you got after a month of raiding 3 days a week for 3 hours per night.

I've been there, done that, so I'm not "bashing" people who are like that, but it's a fact. Being a slave of a gear grind doesn't make a game fun - it just forces people to stay subscribed because if they don't, they will fall behind in the gear grind and be unable to participate once they decide to come back. GW2 doesn't do that. That's why it's not a WoW clone, and yes, it broke the WoW clone model, for the greater good of the whole MMORPG genre.

 

[mod edit]

Why are you trying to dictate what is "fun" to me. Fun is a very subjective thing. By doing so, you prove my point. You do try to force your ideas and beliefs on others. What you find fun might vary greatly from what I do. You are bashing people for what they think is fun and telling them they are wrong. If you think I enjoy raiding for the gear grind then you have it all wrong. I would hazard to say the majority of raiders don't play just for the gear. A lot of people enjoy the teamwork, conversation, and the overcoming adversity with a group of people. They enjoy playing their roles and being good at their in game professions. The gear is just an added benny. In reality, my favorite game had zero raiding, but had a player crafting based economy so raiding isn't a must for me. Gear is a tangible reward. It serves its purpose and increases the power of the character giving a sense of progression. It might not be my preferred method of progression, but it is one.

In GW2, once I have the set I want, what is there left to do? Recycle events? I am mainly a PvE player, but even the PvP is without consequence. You think I hate GW2, but I don't. I still play it. I treat it like a console game. When new content comes out, I play through that content and then shelve it until some more comes along. Is it my favorite game? No. I am only stating some reasons as to why a lot of people most likely complain about the "end game", and I think what I said holds true whether you want to admit it or not. 

So you would enjoy raiding if there wasn't any rewards? No loot. No gear progression?

 

 

Yes I would. Gear progression is such a small part of it. Most raiders I know don't play for the gear. Sometimes I think some of you have never been in a "good" raiding guild with skilled players. I also like the organization of a good guild. I am a former military guy and I like playing defined roles in large fights with everyone having their own responsibilities and contributing to the team effort. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

This is where I'm having problems understanding how you don't care about gear progression

 

Originally posted by stevebombsquad

The problem with GW2 for a lot of people (as I see it anyway) is that there is nothing of consequence after reaching max level...  

 ... The lack of progression with tangible results is a turn-off for some people...

 

... As I level I get stronger. I get better gear. I feel a sense of progression. What is so hard about that to understand. .

 

 

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  Bad.dog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 1155

5/08/13 6:56:18 PM#116
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
 

 

 

 

So you would enjoy raiding if there wasn't any rewards? No loot. No gear progression?

 

 

Yes I would. Gear progression is such a small part of it. Most raiders I know don't play for the gear. Sometimes I think some of you have never been in a "good" raiding guild with skilled players. I also like the organization of a good guild. I am a former military guy and I like playing defined roles in large fights with everyone having their own responsibilities and contributing to the team effort. What is so hard to understand about that?

Bullshit ...Raiders and gear progression are the same as Seagulls and garbage

  elitero

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/12
Posts: 297

5/08/13 7:04:53 PM#117

Some of you here talking about no having defined roles and blah blah progression, in my guild we have defined roles for every class for every situation and they change when we need it, so let me explain a little further about defined roles.

 

When I say defined roles that means combo fields that need to be people need to lay at certain point, so lets take any boss that goes invulnerable (this is just one example) a role is called upon, hey any one with Lightning fields lay them out (e.g Static field by eles) the people with projectiles are aware a lightning field is coming and they are ready to throw projectiles through it so doesnt matter if the boss is invulnerable the lightning field and projectiles going through that will cause vulnerability which does damage, these are what I consider roles, even in WvW we have 8 groups each group does something different than the other, one  thing all groups do as combos is healing fields and blast finishers on it.

 

To give an idea you will probably need to watch this video. When we run dungeons we a have strat for each of them and we roll through them because we have people with defined roles with the combo fields.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i69jtH2A8T8

 

 

Also this one GvG if you see the use of combo fields (but for those who didnt even play the game to understand it wouldn't even know whats going on here but for those that play will know exactly whats going on)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeupSnoQA3Y

  stevebombsquad

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 668

5/08/13 8:31:55 PM#118
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Sure they are tangible results. As I level I get stronger. I get better gear. I feel a sense of progression. What is so hard about that to understand. It doesn't even have to be a gear treadmill. There is just a lack of a sense of progression. I am not "bashing" you for what you like, I just merely proposed a reason for why so many people may feel that there is no endgame or real sense of progression to keep them engaged. You are the one who took it offensively.

The tangible results are only in your own mind. As I said, when the next raid is released, your actual gear will be obsolete, crap, a pile of junk, and you will have to grind all over again. All those people who follow that famous "gear carrot" are only slaves of their own minds, victims of the attraction of virtual power and gear in a video game. At the end of the day, as I said, that jumping puzzle I just completed for the fun of it doesn't matter less than that purple gear item you got after a month of raiding 3 days a week for 3 hours per night.

I've been there, done that, so I'm not "bashing" people who are like that, but it's a fact. Being a slave of a gear grind doesn't make a game fun - it just forces people to stay subscribed because if they don't, they will fall behind in the gear grind and be unable to participate once they decide to come back. GW2 doesn't do that. That's why it's not a WoW clone, and yes, it broke the WoW clone model, for the greater good of the whole MMORPG genre.

 

[mod edit]

Why are you trying to dictate what is "fun" to me. Fun is a very subjective thing. By doing so, you prove my point. You do try to force your ideas and beliefs on others. What you find fun might vary greatly from what I do. You are bashing people for what they think is fun and telling them they are wrong. If you think I enjoy raiding for the gear grind then you have it all wrong. I would hazard to say the majority of raiders don't play just for the gear. A lot of people enjoy the teamwork, conversation, and the overcoming adversity with a group of people. They enjoy playing their roles and being good at their in game professions. The gear is just an added benny. In reality, my favorite game had zero raiding, but had a player crafting based economy so raiding isn't a must for me. Gear is a tangible reward. It serves its purpose and increases the power of the character giving a sense of progression. It might not be my preferred method of progression, but it is one.

In GW2, once I have the set I want, what is there left to do? Recycle events? I am mainly a PvE player, but even the PvP is without consequence. You think I hate GW2, but I don't. I still play it. I treat it like a console game. When new content comes out, I play through that content and then shelve it until some more comes along. Is it my favorite game? No. I am only stating some reasons as to why a lot of people most likely complain about the "end game", and I think what I said holds true whether you want to admit it or not. 

So you would enjoy raiding if there wasn't any rewards? No loot. No gear progression?

 

 

Yes I would. Gear progression is such a small part of it. Most raiders I know don't play for the gear. Sometimes I think some of you have never been in a "good" raiding guild with skilled players. I also like the organization of a good guild. I am a former military guy and I like playing defined roles in large fights with everyone having their own responsibilities and contributing to the team effort. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

This is where I'm having problems understanding how you don't care about gear progression

 

Originally posted by stevebombsquad

The problem with GW2 for a lot of people (as I see it anyway) is that there is nothing of consequence after reaching max level...  

 ... The lack of progression with tangible results is a turn-off for some people...

 

... As I level I get stronger. I get better gear. I feel a sense of progression. What is so hard about that to understand. .

 

 

So? What is your point?  You asked me if I would raid without gear progression and I would.  Like I said before gear progression isn't the major reason I raid. Do I like gear progression in my game? Yes I do?  I also like apples and oranges.  Sometimes I eat them together.... sometimes I don't  I can like one without the other... or both at the same time. They aren't connected at the hip....... It goes beyond gear progression with GW2. The downleveling mechanic also takes away from the progression feeling. When you are auto leveled to an area you don't have that sense of accomplishment or power. Good job.....You took a bunch of sentences out of context and tried to make it fit your twisted views of me. In that post I was stating why GW2 most likely doesn't hold longevity with a lot of people. Sorry but you fail......

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  stevebombsquad

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 668

5/08/13 8:33:14 PM#119
Originally posted by Bad.dog
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
 

 

 

 

So you would enjoy raiding if there wasn't any rewards? No loot. No gear progression?

 

 

Yes I would. Gear progression is such a small part of it. Most raiders I know don't play for the gear. Sometimes I think some of you have never been in a "good" raiding guild with skilled players. I also like the organization of a good guild. I am a former military guy and I like playing defined roles in large fights with everyone having their own responsibilities and contributing to the team effort. What is so hard to understand about that?

Bullshit ...Raiders and gear progression are the same as Seagulls and garbage

You my friend have never been in a good raiding guild. I feel sorry for you. You have no idea.... clueless would be a good word......

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3101

I am more than some of my parts

5/08/13 11:10:34 PM#120
Originally posted by stevebombsquad

 

 

 

So? What is your point?  You asked me if I would raid without gear progression and I would.  Like I said before gear progression isn't the major reason I raid. Do I like gear progression in my game? Yes I do?  I also like apples and oranges.  Sometimes I eat them together.... sometimes I don't  I can like one without the other... or both at the same time. They aren't connected at the hip....... It goes beyond gear progression with GW2. The downleveling mechanic also takes away from the progression feeling. When you are auto leveled to an area you don't have that sense of accomplishment or power. Good job.....You took a bunch of sentences out of context and tried to make it fit your twisted views of me. In that post I was stating why GW2 most likely doesn't hold longevity with a lot of people. Sorry but you fail......

My point is that your arguments are sounding pretty weak. You think they should add raiding because you hate repeating content, and you don't like how there is no gear progression because gear progression isn't a big deal to you.  

Here is what I think.  You could have simply said "I'm a raider, that style of gameplay is what I prefer, and GW2 just isn't the game that works for me"

Instead, you decide to be a regular poster in the GW2 forums, complaining about a lack of raiding when it was known months before launch that they wouldn't be including any sorts of raids, and yet you still go on about it like somebody is going to be caught off guard by the fact.

And now you bring up downleveling because it doesn't give you a powertrip? Are you serious?  Are you actually saying that you would rather make it more difficult to play with friends because you need to feel powerful by rolling over junk mobs? 

 

Oh.

 

I think I might understand you a bit better now.  You really want gear progression. You want to crush meaningless mobs with your uber gear.  (Removed the next sentences for reasons of tact)

 

I knew a guy, he just had to have the biggest truck.  

 

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

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