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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » 8 months in. Did GW2 break from the WoW formula?

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174 posts found
  Thupli

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 404

5/07/13 9:38:33 PM#81
Originally posted by bcbully
There's been some really good post in this thread. Thank you for staying on topic, for the most part :p

Hey BCBULLY-

 

First off, I commend you on your post.  I remember you vividly saying many anti-GW2 comments both before and after the release, but I really find the simplicity of how you asked the question to be a good, long-term "How goes it for folks" question, and I respect that.

 

Briefly, I was a fan before release, got tired as I got to 80, chilled for a while and didn't play the game for about 1 month, and have since been playing it pretty heavily.  A couple things factored into this for me, as I will detail below.

 

1.  GW2 does pve combat much differently than wow.  I love this.  I love the action combat and combo fields.  Did I mention that I LOVE combo-fields?  The depth that these 2 things alone bring to the game make me love it.

2.  The thing that bores me most in the game is the leveling to 80.  I don't see a need for levels and I feel the devs did this to add longevity to "grind/end-game" players. 

3.  Initially (ie, before level 60), I didn't feel that builds were exciting.  It took until really level 80 for me to see how complex traits can be.  It took me longer after that to realize just how much adding a specific gear set does to making a certain trait build even more effective.

4.  I'm not satisfied with weapon abilities right now.  I like that you can pick from different weapons, but they need to add more skills per weapon to choose from.  I realize that like GW1 they will add more in as the game grows, but I am still disappointed right now with the choice selection here.

5.  The first dungeon I played I didn't know what the heck was going on.  It was chaotic (at least for me).  After I hit dungeon 3 I settled into a rhythm, and I absolutely love the dungeons in this game way more than WoW (personal opinion here).  You cant run into a group of mobs and stay there and live for more than 3 seconds in this game.  It is a series of attack, fall back, focus fire, combo/burst down a target, and repeat. 

     I would also say I adore the puzzle elements that they have put in these dungeons (especially the fractals that I have done!).  Pressure plates simultaneously to open doors, white-outs where you must pick up torches and light fires... I could go on, but I really miss that from consul games when I played wow.  The best wow had was BRD, where you unlocked the wheel and lit some torches to get to the end.

 

 

That about sums it up for me, with my post mortum analysis for what I still like about gw2 and what I think needs to be improved.

 

To answer the question, is it different [enough] from WoW?  I'd say a resounding yes, that no trinity (yay!), the action combat, the puzzle nature and different feel of dungeons is just a great change of pace from wow.

That being said, I also look forward to WildStar and the raiding WITH action combat that they plan.

  Br3akingDawn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 1314

5/07/13 9:44:49 PM#82
GW2 was the WoW formula!?? I wish it was a bit more like the WoW formula... : |

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2738

There... are... four... lights!

5/08/13 2:51:28 AM#83
Originally posted by Volkon
Definitely GW2 is the not-WoW. Removing the treadmill, different trinity-free combat style, content remaining viable regardless of character level, lack of the quest-bang packed quest hubs, continual content updates monthly at no charge, living, breathing world (as opposed to static quest based world)... they've walked away from the WoW formula and are enjoying the cashflow as a result. 

This says it all. Yes, GW2 broke the WoW clone model, and thankfully, other games already use elements from GW2. It was about time that someone good stopped that influx of bad clones.

I tried WoW:Pandaria, leveled my main through it, and stopped playing. It's hard to play WoW or one of its clones once you got into a game like GW2, it's hard to go back to grind raids when GW2 offers you a whole world to enjoy even at max level, it's hard to get back grind PvP gear before you're no longer canon fodder when you tried GW2's PvP and WvW, it's hard to be stuck in a few high level areas at max level, it's hard to be forced to go through exactly the same quest content with every alt you level when you've experienced GW2's living world full of events and with the freedom to level anywhere you want.

 

Originally posted by Homitu

During vanilla WoW, my play time looked something like this:  

  • Once I got a level 60, I pretty much played that character exclusively.  I casually leveled two alts, but didn't get them to cap until Burning Crusade.  
  • The only thing I can remember doing on my personal time was running non-stop dungeons: Strat, Scholo, BRD emp runs, UBRS, Dire Maul (once that was added, which, by 8 months in, it was).  It was constant pursuit of specific pieces of gear (Ie. grinding the first boss of DM west for the Mindtap trinket) via dungeons in preparation for raids.  The dungeons were enormous and cavernous and required decent leadership to navigate and counter specific mob types.  Things like DM north tribute runs and timed Strat runs added some intensity and extra motivation.
  • Once Silithus was added (it wasn't yet at the 8 month mark), that became a zone to grind quests and small group content for money and other rewards.
  • Other than that, it was raiding.  The only one available initially was Molten Core.  UBRS was big enough to count as a raid at the time, however.  Looking at the patch history, by the 8th month, BWL was just being added.  Next month would come ZG; 3 months from now would come AQ.
  • 7 months after launch, WoW added its first battlegrounds: AV and WSG.  I would run these very occasionally.

That's about all I can remember doing.  Not much in the open world.  Eventually they added some open world bosses.  

 

 

During vanilla GW2, my play time looks something like this:

 

  • I've leveled 5 characters to cap, but I pretty much play my elementalist exclusively anyway.  
  • What I do on a daily basis completely depends on what time of the month it is.  Significant content updates have completely altered things to do in the world several times now: Halloween, Lost Shores, Wintersday, Flame and Frost, Super Adventure Box.  Next up is Secrets of Southsun in 7 days.  Every time one of these is added to the game, it basically provides me with something completely new to do for 1-2 weeks.  
  • During the other 2-3 weeks of the month, I return to the "normal" game, which consists of...
  • I do my dailies, which thankfully can be done anywhere in any zone.  I tend to hang around whatever zone is relevant to the Living Story.  It's always very populated.
  • I occasionally hop from world boss to world boss, although I liked them a lot more when fewer people did them.  There's no challenge whatsoever atm.  
  • Jumping puzzles.  These are amazing and more significant than I ever imagined they would be.  They are legit forms of gameplay that can occupy hours upon hours of your time.  My guild runs guild nights, which occasionally entail everyone picking out their favorite jumping puzzle and showing it to everyone else.
    • Mini dungeons.  I feel like I needed a sub tab for these because they're so unique.  The ancient treasure hunt in Dredgehaunt Cliffs was probably the most fun I've ever had in an MMO when I found that with a friend.  Vexa's Lab is another amazing one. 
  • Guild missions.  
    • Guild challenges and bounties essentially provide the most difficult encounters in the game so far, with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 dungeon encounters.  That's right, the hardest fights take place in the open world! 
    • Guild rushes provide completely unique type of gameplay.
  • I do do dungeon runs for specific pieces of gear, but there are a few fundamental differences. 
    • Dungeons comprise a minor part of my game time.
    • Combat is extremely different in groups (I honestly greatly preferred WoW's group combat, but GW2's solo combat.)
    • There's no random loot suspense.  You run for badges to purchase your gear.
  • Fractals.  They're basically a dungeon, but with their own distinct progression path.  I progress through these when I feel the itch for that traditionally hard MMO content and to get the best gear.  I think I use these like I used raids in WoW.  
    • They're still not quite as hard, however, or not hard in the same satisfying way.  
    • These actually do require group coordination, but with external mechanics (ie. passing a hammer that has magical uses, or crossing a swamp obstacle course individually to press a button at the same time); this differs from WoW, which rarely used such mechanics early on, and instead required a lot of coordination within the trinity combat system as the bosses abilities and mechanics dictated.
  • I very occasionally run structured pvp, just like I occasionally ran BGs once they were added in WoW.  
  • I do WvW a lot more frequently.  WvW, while it certainly still has issues to work out, is a complete game of its own that must be taken into account.  Hundreds and hundreds of hours can be spent there.  

 

That's my summary.  I'm sure I left some stuff out of both, but that's the general jist of it.  I included things I thought WoW did better as far as execution of individual components, but overall, I certainly think GW2 has a much greater variety of activities to offer than vanilla WoW did.  

A damned good post, and honest too. The revamped old dungeons are great though - have you run AC after the revamp? - that's how they should have been at release in my opinion. And Fractals are just awesome. The new living story dungeons is great too, everything shows that ANet have learned the lesson and have greatly improved the way they design dungeon encounters.

It's amusing to notice that the poster used the word "grind" twice in the WoW part, but not even once in the GW2 part.

Originally posted by eyelolled

They should have added raiding to eliminate the problem with repeating content! Am I right Steve? 

Originally posted by DKLond

You have to understand why certain things appeal to people - and that "grind" or "hard work" is the essence behind any reward system. It's about psychology.

Are you talking about people or hamster in a cage running on a threadmill?

I like my MMORPGs fun and played with good company - my guild and friends - and not a second job. I understand that there are "people" who like to be "hamsterized" by games, just don't try and pretend everybody is like that.

Originally posted by DKLond

But, in practice, the idea isn't as good as so many people keep insisting it is. It SHOULD be in their minds - but it's really not.

What an arrogant little hamster we have here. So you know better than other people what they enjoy or not, what they think is good or not? Do you realize what you just wrote here? You sound like one of those extremists who hold the one and only truth... reality check, you know nothing.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  MikeJezZ

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 1199

Only in death, does duty end.

5/08/13 2:59:09 AM#84

it is not like WoW.

 

There's no endgame and at 80 you have completed it.

 

(mind I no longer play WoW. But I miss something likes gear progression or something that could keep me playing.

Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  Kimril

Novice Member

Joined: 5/08/13
Posts: 6

The more you hate the more you love

5/08/13 3:19:20 AM#85

Honestly for me, GW2 has given me almost everything i look for in MMO’s. Fun leveling, awesome armor sets, skinning your armor, voice acting, beautiful graphics, no more repetitive quests, epic WvWvW, crafting exp, and the nostalgic feeling of exploring.

But what my title states, is that i can no longer play any MMO that follows the gruesome quest log, collecting quests, and so on! I’ve been raised to believe all of that is standard and the only way to enjoy MMO’s. But Guild Wars has changed my outlook on online gaming. I know some of you may not fully agree with what i am going say, but Guild Wars 2 has revolutionized MMO gaming, for me at least.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2738

There... are... four... lights!

5/08/13 3:22:57 AM#86
Originally posted by MikeJezZ

There's no endgame and at 80 you have completed it.

It is not "Super Mario" which is over when you kill the last boss, it's a MMORPG. Something WoW and its clones made people forget about. The whole concept of "end game" hurt the whole genre more than any other element introduced by EQ/WoW clones. Some of us played more than those clones though, games like UO, AC1, games without that stupid "end game" threadmill, game which just don't end.

Saying that the game ends at 80 is typical from people who totally misunderstood what the game is all about, people who tried to play this like another WoW clone because they most likely don't know any better and never played anything different.

Yes, I will dare to say it again: you played it wrong.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2180

First came pride, then envy.

5/08/13 3:23:16 AM#87
Originally posted by MikeJezZ

it is not like WoW.

 

There's no endgame and at 80 you have completed it.

 

(mind I no longer play WoW. But I miss something likes gear progression or something that could keep me playing.

Endgame can mean many different things though.

  • In WoW, endgame is: Dailies, World Bosses, Dungeons/Raids, RBGs/BGs, and Arenas, etc.
  • In GW2, endgame is: Dailies, World Bosses, Guild Content, Exploration, Dungeons, WvW, SPvP (obtaining ranks), etc.
What you want is a gear treadmill, so stop trying to equate that with "endgame".
  Vapors

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/16/10
Posts: 397

5/08/13 3:25:28 AM#88
Originally posted by MikeJezZ

it is not like WoW.

 

There's no endgame and at 80 you have completed it.

 

(mind I no longer play WoW. But I miss something likes gear progression or something that could keep me playing.

Means you can quit at 80? :D since you have completed the game...

Seriously who came up with this no endgame lie is funny. It is same like other games you reach 80 then you start grinding mobs for skills + you are grinding doungens + doing a few spvp's to not loose fun on this repeatable pve stuff.

 

  MikeJezZ

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 1199

Only in death, does duty end.

5/08/13 3:29:18 AM#89

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Originally posted by MikeJezZ

There's no endgame and at 80 you have completed it.

It is not "Super Mario" which is over when you kill the last boss, it's a MMORPG. Something WoW and its clones made people forget about. The whole concept of "end game" hurt the whole genre more than any other element introduced by EQ/WoW clones. Some of us played more than those clones though, games like UO, AC1, games without that stupid "end game" threadmill, game which just don't end.

Saying that the game ends at 80 is typical from people who totally misunderstood what the game is all about.

Yes, I will dare to say it again: you played it wrong.

I am playing it wrong?

 

How dare you. You don't know how I'm playing this game. I am not into silly puzzles, or just zerging to spots to "explorer" some totally useless spots.

 

When I went to 80, theres nothing more to do than some few events, get legendary, then log off, for me.

 

I like getting stronger. I'm not a fan of using too much time getting better. But I mind having a carrot.

 

Keep in mind, that my opinion is not a fact. It is just my opinion. It is fine you defend your game. But I'm just not attracted to a game where there is no carrot. No progression is boring for me. It is not for you and that is allright, we are all different.

 

Originally posted by observer

Originally posted by MikeJezZ

it is not like WoW.

 

There's no endgame and at 80 you have completed it.

 

(mind I no longer play WoW. But I miss something likes gear progression or something that could keep me playing.

Endgame can mean many different things though.

  • In WoW, endgame is: Dailies, World Bosses, Dungeons/Raids, RBGs/BGs, and Arenas, etc.
  • In GW2, endgame is: Dailies, World Bosses, Guild Content, Exploration, Dungeons, WvW, SPvP (obtaining ranks), etc.
What you want is a gear treadmill, so stop trying to equate that with "endgame".
Yeah both has the same, except for a carrot. And that is enough for me. I like being rewarded for time playing.
And I am not a zealot without a job that plays 14 hours a day.
 
I hate how long the grind takes in WoW. I would love something in between.
 
That everything you could do in the end leads to some progression.

 

Keep in mind, that my opinion is not a fact. It is just my opinion. It is fine you defend your game. But I'm just not attracted to a game where there is no carrot. No progression is boring for me. It is not for you and that is allright, we are all different.

Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  MikeJezZ

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 1199

Only in death, does duty end.

5/08/13 3:31:00 AM#90
Originally posted by Vapors
Originally posted by MikeJezZ

it is not like WoW.

 

There's no endgame and at 80 you have completed it.

 

(mind I no longer play WoW. But I miss something likes gear progression or something that could keep me playing.

Means you can quit at 80? :D since you have completed the game...

Seriously who came up with this no endgame lie is funny. It is same like other games you reach 80 then you start grinding mobs for skills + you are grinding doungens + doing a few spvp's to not loose fun on this repeatable pve stuff.

 

Grinding mobs for skills is incredibly boring.

 

Tell me. Grinding for gear is boring. But grinding for useless skillpoints are fun?

 

But, why?

 

Keep in mind, that my opinion is not a fact. It is just my opinion. It is fine you defend your game. But I'm just not attracted to a game where there is no carrot. No progression is boring for me. It is not for you and that is allright, we are all different.

Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2180

First came pride, then envy.

5/08/13 3:39:03 AM#91
Originally posted by MikeJezZ

Originally posted by observer

Originally posted by MikeJezZ

it is not like WoW.

 

There's no endgame and at 80 you have completed it.

 

(mind I no longer play WoW. But I miss something likes gear progression or something that could keep me playing.

Endgame can mean many different things though.

  • In WoW, endgame is: Dailies, World Bosses, Dungeons/Raids, RBGs/BGs, and Arenas, etc.
  • In GW2, endgame is: Dailies, World Bosses, Guild Content, Exploration, Dungeons, WvW, SPvP (obtaining ranks), etc.
What you want is a gear treadmill, so stop trying to equate that with "endgame".
Yeah both has the same, except for a carrot. And that is enough for me. I like being rewarded for time playing.
And I am not a zealot without a job that plays 14 hours a day.
 
I hate how long the grind takes in WoW. I would love something in between.
 
That everything you could do in the end leads to some progression.

 

Keep in mind, that my opinion is not a fact. It is just my opinion. It is fine you defend your game. But I'm just not attracted to a game where there is no carrot. No progression is boring for me. It is not for you and that is allright, we are all different.

Your post is all over the place.

I'm just stating that you're equating endgame with one particular aspect (progression) of an MMO, which is wrong.  There are forms of progression in GW2, but you don't like them, which is fine, but to deny it is not being truthful.

  • GW2 has ranks for SPvP.
  • GW2 has progression for WvW.
  • GW2 has titles to obtain.
  • GW2 has guild "perks" to obtain.
  • GW2 has achievements to obtain.
  • etc
The same things were said of Swtor too, and swtor has endgame activities, as do most MMOs.  People, such as yourself, just think progression is about gear, with character stats, obtained from raids.

 

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2738

There... are... four... lights!

5/08/13 3:42:27 AM#92
Originally posted by MikeJezZ

I am playing it wrong?

 

How dare you. You don't know how I'm playing this game. I am not into silly puzzles, or just zerging to spots to "explorer" some totally useless spots.

When I went to 80, theres nothing more to do than some few events, get legendary, then log off, for me.

I like getting stronger. I'm not a fan of using too much time getting better. But I mind having a carrot.

 

Keep in mind, that my opinion is not a fact. It is just my opinion. It is fine you defend your game. But I'm just not attracted to a game where there is no carrot. No progression is boring for me. It is not for you and that is allright, we are all different.

So you actually agree with me. You tried to play GW2 like a WoW clone, and it didn't work, since GW2 is not a WoW clone. That's what I mean by "you played it wrong". People who can only play when there's a lot of "work" before the fun and with an always renewed gear carrot will indeed not understand what GW2 is all about.

A hint, though... doing puzzles or exploring the map is just as pointless as grinding dungeons to acquire purple gear in WoW. Everything is virtual. That gear you got with your DKP after weeks of raiding in WoW is just as virtual as that jumping puzzle I completed just for fun. Pointless, useless... that's words to use with utter care when talking about video games.

Originally posted by MikeJezZ

Yeah both has the same, except for a carrot. And that is enough for me. I like being rewarded for time playing.

The only meaningful reward for playing a video game is having fun. Everything else, all that gear you use as a carrot to keep you playing, is virtual, it doesn't exist. And the big difference between WoW and its clones and GW2 is that in WoW you are FORCED into the grind if you want to experience the content, while in GW2, no activity is forced on you, and you, the player, decide what you want to do without having some content barred behind a terrible gear grind. I understand how this can be confusing for some people though... they are so used to be forced into activities by the game that when finally a game comes that gives them the choice, they are lost.

There's only one reward for the time spent playing: fun. Nothing else.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

5/08/13 3:45:51 AM#93
Originally posted by bcbully

It's been awhile since I posted in this forum. Before the launch I railed against the hype. After launch I loved the game for 3 weeks.

 

Since then I've seen many columns dedicated to the progress of GW2. From the fringe I've read about dungeons, dailies,  WvW fixes. and mini-games.

 

To those still playing-

Do you feel that GW2 has broken away for the WoW formula? If so, it what ways?

 

Do you feel GW2 has become more like WoW? If so, in what ways?

1.) The game is still not gear-centric. There may be a shift in mechanics regarding Fractals, but the gear threadmill is isolated and contained only to those doing fractals. I am in no way restricted to entering any place because of my lack of gear.

2.) The game still has no hard trinity. Finding groups is still easy and I still don't have to give way to Tanks and Healers.

 

Overall still an awesome game.

  MikeJezZ

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 1199

Only in death, does duty end.

5/08/13 3:45:58 AM#94
Originally posted by observer

Your post is all over the place.

I'm just stating that you're equating endgame with one particular aspect (progression) of an MMO, which is wrong.  There are forms of progression in GW2, but you don't like them, which is fine, but to deny it is not being truthful.

  • GW2 has ranks for SPvP.
  • GW2 has progression for WvW.
  • GW2 has titles to obtain.
  • GW2 has guild "perks" to obtain.
  • GW2 has achievements to obtain.
  • etc
The same things were said of Swtor too, and swtor has endgame activities, as do most MMOs.  People, such as yourself, just think progression is about gear with character stats obtained from raids.

 

AFAIK, it is easy to get legendary, like you can get it VERY fast, which is not bad... but what to do after?

 

sPvP ranks yeah. But it doesnt do much other than giving you a chance for bettter looking cosmetic gear.

Progression for WvW is more levels than gear.

Im not interested in titles

Not interested in guild perks

Same with achievements.

 

I like to feel I get stronger at every level and when I obtain new gear. I dont feel that in GW2.

Playing ATM: Elder Scrolls Online, Diablo 3
MMO's shelted: Check my mmorpg profile
KICKSTARTED: Camelot Unchained. (250 USD)

  stevebombsquad

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 605

5/08/13 5:28:18 AM#95
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by MikeJezZ

There's no endgame and at 80 you have completed it.

It is not "Super Mario" which is over when you kill the last boss, it's a MMORPG. Something WoW and its clones made people forget about. The whole concept of "end game" hurt the whole genre more than any other element introduced by EQ/WoW clones. Some of us played more than those clones though, games like UO, AC1, games without that stupid "end game" threadmill, game which just don't end.

Saying that the game ends at 80 is typical from people who totally misunderstood what the game is all about, people who tried to play this like another WoW clone because they most likely don't know any better and never played anything different.

Yes, I will dare to say it again: you played it wrong.

Comparing UO to those other games isn't quite fair as it is a sandbox and not a themepark. The problem with GW2 for a lot of people (as I see it anyway) is that there is nothing of consequence after reaching max level. The downlevelling is of no consequence as repeating content with nothing to gain  becomes boring. The same applies to killing world bosses, doing dungeons, or even the PvP. Once you have seen and done the content, there is little to encourage or interest the average player to keep doing the content. The lack of progression with tangible results is a turn-off for some people. Other things like a game wide auction house also detract from the end game experience. I know lots of people that play MMOs for crafting alone and like to try to corner the market on their server for certain goods and earn a reputation. This also is not a viable option. Like you, I believe that GW2 is a good game, but I also understand why people feel the way they do and why the game may not hold the longevity or be the "main" game for a lot of people. 

As far as the "you played it wrong" comment, I would be more apt to say that GW2 isn't able to be played the way that you want it to be. The system they designed is not a flexible one, and it appeals to a certain group of players. You really shouldn't bash someone because they don't fall into that group. 

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2738

There... are... four... lights!

5/08/13 6:55:20 AM#96
Originally posted by stevebombsquad

Comparing UO to those other games isn't quite fair as it is a sandbox and not a themepark.

Did you really read what I posted? I was comparing one feature of UO. Neither in UO nor in GW2 does the game begin at max level, unlike all the EQ/WoW clones.

And by the way... how can you pretend being a judge on sandboxes and theme parks with what you regularly post here? You are the prototype of theme park raid grind player. Your post history clearly shows it. Give us a break, will you?

The problem with GW2 for a lot of people (as I see it anyway) is that there is nothing of consequence after reaching max level. The downlevelling is of no consequence as repeating content with nothing to gain  becomes boring. The same applies to killing world bosses, doing dungeons, or even the PvP. Once you have seen and done the content, there is little to encourage or interest the average player to keep doing the content. The lack of progression with tangible results is a turn-off for some people.

Tangible results? Purple items that become obsolete each new patch/raid? Talk about worthless items, talk about a waste of time. At least in GW2, once I found the gear I like, I know it won't become useless next patch.

Other things like a game wide auction house also detract from the end game experience. I know lots of people that play MMOs for crafting alone and like to try to corner the market on their server for certain goods and earn a reputation. This also is not a viable option.

A guildie of mine has over 500g on his name just playing the AH and cornering the market. Don't limit what's possible to the limits of your own imagination. A game wide AH actually avoids smaller servers to have crazy high prices for common goods, which harms all players on that server. I hope more games will adopt that model in the future.

Like you, I believe that GW2 is a good game, but I also understand why people feel the way they do and why the game may not hold the longevity or be the "main" game for a lot of people. 

Since every single post of yours is bashing GW2, I really don't want to read anything from you about a game you really dislike then.

As far as the "you played it wrong" comment, I would be more apt to say that GW2 isn't able to be played the way that you want it to be. The system they designed is not a flexible one, and it appeals to a certain group of players. You really shouldn't bash someone because they don't fall into that group. 

No game can be played exactly the way you want to, not even sandbox games. Try to play chess like you play checkers, and prepare for defeat. GW2 is still more flexible than any EQ/WoW clone, because unlike those games, GW2 does NOT force you into a single play style when comes that damned thing people name "end game". And telling someone he played it wrong isn't bashing. If I saw someone play chess like checkers, I'd also tell him that he's playing it wrong. Keep your indignation for when people really insult each other.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2139

5/08/13 7:30:33 AM#97
Originally posted by Volkon
Definitely GW2 is the not-WoW. Removing the treadmill, different trinity-free combat style, content remaining viable regardless of character level, lack of the quest-bang packed quest hubs, continual content updates monthly at no charge, living, breathing world (as opposed to static quest based world)... they've walked away from the WoW formula and are enjoying the cashflow as a result. 

 

Yes I tend to agree with this.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  DKLond

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 543

5/08/13 10:41:59 AM#98

Originally posted by DKLond

You have to understand why certain things appeal to people - and that "grind" or "hard work" is the essence behind any reward system. It's about psychology.

Are you talking about people or hamster in a cage running on a threadmill?

I like my MMORPGs fun and played with good company - my guild and friends - and not a second job. I understand that there are "people" who like to be "hamsterized" by games, just don't try and pretend everybody is like that.

Originally posted by DKLond

But, in practice, the idea isn't as good as so many people keep insisting it is. It SHOULD be in their minds - but it's really not.

What an arrogant little hamster we have here. So you know better than other people what they enjoy or not, what they think is good or not? Do you realize what you just wrote here? You sound like one of those extremists who hold the one and only truth... reality check, you know nothing.

You can call working towards something you want running a hamster wheel if you want. If that's what you're doing when you're working on your legendary in GW2 or your next skin - or your crafting progress - then you're running on a hamster wheel. I don't really mind that you think of yourself that way.

I'm talking about basic human psychology and how it works in relation to rewards.

If you're being handed rewards with minimal effort - the rewards will tend to feel less rewarding. It's pretty simple.

It's too much of a good thing - and it's like getting 1000 presents at Christmas instead of 5. You know? If you have 1000 presents - you'll be sick of them by the time you open your 500th present. They don't feel as special and you can't really decide what you want to play with.

See? Ultra basic psychology. This applies to ALL human beings on the planet. So, it's not me being psychic. The thing I'm arguing is that GW2 went too far. It's nothing but my opinion.

I'm talking about a balance between the effort you put into something and the reward you get when you're done.

In my opinion, GW2 reduced the effort - and they reduced the rewards by making them about vanity and not power. Though, naturally, it does have power-rewards as well.

The end result is a watered down reward system requiring less effort. Some people enjoy that - and you apparently enjoy running on the GW2 hamster wheel, as you call it. That's fair enough.

As for me being an extremist and a hamster - I'm afraid I don't agree.

I'm not the one meticulously replying to EVERY SINGLE post that doesn't say exclusively good things about my favorite game. I'm not on a religious crusade - and I can disagree without going overboard.

I don't have to talk down to people to make my point - and as far as I'm concerned, that's a major warning sign that you're being irrationally attached to your position.

Yes, I really think that some people are overestimating how brilliant the GW2 ideas are. But, as I said, that's just my opinion. I think some people got attached to the GW2 manifesto - much like ArenaNet did - and they're clinging to it like it can't possibly be flawed. If I'm arrogant for believing so - then so be it. You seem to be the perfect example with your exceedingly fierce defense of the game in every single thread. It's a little disturbing in some ways :)

A lot of people seem to be able to enjoy GW2 without thinking it's flawless - and they're much more interesting to exchange with.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2738

There... are... four... lights!

5/08/13 12:40:26 PM#99
Originally posted by DKLond

Yes, I really think that some people are overestimating how brilliant the GW2 ideas are. But, as I said, that's just my opinion.

Your opinion makes you an arrogant person who thinks he knows better than everyone else what's "good for them", just like extremists in "real life" are. If someone thinks GW2 is brilliant, who are you to dispute his opinion? Are you also doing the same to people who like specific food, or are part of a specific religion, or whatever else?

The answer is simple. You are nobody. In "real life", people like you oppress those who don't think like they do, because they think their opinion is "god sent", but thankfully this doesn't work on the Internet.

I think GW2 is the best MMORPG release since Asheron's Call 1. You can kiss the darkest part of my lily white if you don't agree. Enjoy that and chew on it, I know it's going to be a hard bone for you to accept.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1568

5/08/13 12:57:16 PM#100
Originally posted by KhinRunite
Originally posted by bcbully

It's been awhile since I posted in this forum. Before the launch I railed against the hype. After launch I loved the game for 3 weeks.

 

Since then I've seen many columns dedicated to the progress of GW2. From the fringe I've read about dungeons, dailies,  WvW fixes. and mini-games.

 

To those still playing-

Do you feel that GW2 has broken away for the WoW formula? If so, it what ways?

 

Do you feel GW2 has become more like WoW? If so, in what ways?

1.) The game is still not gear-centric. There may be a shift in mechanics regarding Fractals, but the gear threadmill is isolated and contained only to those doing fractals. I am in no way restricted to entering any place because of my lack of gear.

2.) The game still has no hard trinity. Finding groups is still easy and I still don't have to give way to Tanks and Healers.

 

Overall still an awesome game.

I would say these two points pretty well sum things up. I'll also add that obtaining Exotics is a fairly easy process, considering that you can obtain exotics in whichever avenue you choose. Whether it be crafting, karma, trade post, wvw, dungeons. The only gear "progression" that exists in in Fractals with Agony Resistance, and again it pertains to just that portion of the game (like Khin said).

GW2 isn't perfect by any means, but I am finding the changes are nice and a break away from the norm.

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