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General Discussion  » 8 months in. Did GW2 break from the WoW formula?

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174 posts found
  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

5/07/13 12:14:08 PM#41

yep

of all the new era mmos it was over the fastest. ive never had the displeasure of playing through more shallow and easy mode content in my life. broke the new mmo formula wide open in that regard.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  Slampig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2395

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

5/07/13 12:15:12 PM#42
Originally posted by pmiles

Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

 

Still no subscription fees... check

Still no trinity... check

 

Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

 

Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

 

Don't you just love trends?

I take it you are current player then? I mean if not, how would you know about patches being screwed?

 

And after 8 months and all GW2 has done is the same thing it launched with, which is no sub fee and no trinity, how is that progress? Seems pretty static to me...

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1775

5/07/13 12:21:28 PM#43
Originally posted by Slampig
Originally posted by pmiles

Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

 

Still no subscription fees... check

Still no trinity... check

 

Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

 

Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

 

Don't you just love trends?

I take it you are current player then? I mean if not, how would you know about patches being screwed?

 

And after 8 months and all GW2 has done is the same thing it launched with, which is no sub fee and no trinity, how is that progress? Seems pretty static to me...

So I take it you think WoW's sub based pay model, trinity, raids, and gear grind new and refreshing or just a warm fuzzy comfort blanket?

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3088

I am more than some of my parts

5/07/13 12:21:49 PM#44
Originally posted by Praetalus
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by kjempff

 

I like the dynamic events and alot of the mechanics and features, jump puzzles. Mini stories/adventurers are clever compared to kill 10 rats types although a bit heavy on the escort types of missions, its just that I don't really care.. in 10 minutes the same merchant is back wanting the same escort. Take back a centaur infested town, and 5 mins later centaurs are back in control, why did I bother?. Clear some mobs, bam same mobs attack me less than a minute after I just killed them. Those things does not make dynamic, it makes it feel constructed.

  

 

Need to touch on this point... you sound like someone that didn't wait around to follow event chains. For example, you defend the town from centaurs. Event will spawn to begin pushing into centaur country. Eventually you wind up with the mega-event fighting the Champion centaur and his minions. You need to push a lot of events or yes, they'll push you instead.

You make that sound much more epic then it actually is in game. Most will agree I'm sure. You can even make a chain quest in wow sound fun and engaging if you try. 

He's not even trying to make it sound epic.  LOL

Pay attention to what he said and learn something or live in ignorance. It's YOUR choice.

 

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  kjempff

Elite Member

Joined: 10/12/04
Posts: 706

Make worlds not stories

5/07/13 12:23:33 PM#45
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by kjempff

.. 

Need to touch on this point... you sound like someone that didn't wait around to follow event chains. For example, you defend the town from centaurs. Event will spawn to begin pushing into centaur country. Eventually you wind up with the mega-event fighting the Champion centaur and his minions. You need to push a lot of events or yes, they'll push you instead.

Nah I know the deal, chains blahblah kill big thing at the end unlock a trader with nothing interesting hehe - Atleast I have never found a good reason I should do it.. no there was one time I needed to do it to get the last point for a 100% completion. Also as a Mesmer with not alot of dps, the pushing part takes forever without help. Well I am not done with GW2, I can enjoy the good parts.. and I want a total completion before I quit.

  stevebombsquad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 609

5/07/13 12:44:38 PM#46
Originally posted by Epicent
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by Manolios
Originally posted by pmiles

Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

 

Still no subscription fees... check

Still no trinity... check

 

Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

 

Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

 

Don't you just love trends?

 

wow is running in circles while gw2 is making improvements...thats an experts opinion i guess?

hmmm gw2 after only 8 months has ''lost'' how many of the daily player base? maybe half? and its a game you only pay once. imagine this game with a sub? i guess you just cant...

wow after almost 10 years has more than 7m subs. not free or b2p users but subs. can you understant the difference?

and yes, we all love trends :)

Spot on.

They lost population.................yet all the servers are high or full with no server merges........................right.

You are trying to tell me that the population is the same as it was at launch or even two months afterwards? It isn't. Not even close. You can spin it anyway that you want, but the reality of the matter is that the population is way less. I don't hate the game, and I still play it occasionally. But let's be real, it isn't growing.

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  botrytis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2537

5/07/13 12:49:38 PM#47
Originally posted by azmundai

yep

of all the new era mmos it was over the fastest. ive never had the displeasure of playing through more shallow and easy mode content in my life. broke the new mmo formula wide open in that regard.

LOL - this is the typical anti-GW2 comment - so funny!. How far did you get? lvl 10? just asking - try Orr or Southsun Coast solo an see if it is easy. JEEZ!!

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  stevebombsquad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 609

5/07/13 12:49:40 PM#48
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by kjempff

 

I like the dynamic events and alot of the mechanics and features, jump puzzles. Mini stories/adventurers are clever compared to kill 10 rats types although a bit heavy on the escort types of missions, its just that I don't really care.. in 10 minutes the same merchant is back wanting the same escort. Take back a centaur infested town, and 5 mins later centaurs are back in control, why did I bother?. Clear some mobs, bam same mobs attack me less than a minute after I just killed them. Those things does not make dynamic, it makes it feel constructed.

  

 

Need to touch on this point... you sound like someone that didn't wait around to follow event chains. For example, you defend the town from centaurs. Event will spawn to begin pushing into centaur country. Eventually you wind up with the mega-event fighting the Champion centaur and his minions. You need to push a lot of events or yes, they'll push you instead.

And then as soon as you are done, it recycles and the same thing happens again. Maybe if they only popped once or twice a day it might be fine, but most of them recycle so quickly that you see them happen so many times and begin to careless about if so and so needs and escort or if the centaurs control some bridge. There really aren't significant enough consequences for not doing them for it to matter.

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

5/07/13 12:57:23 PM#49


Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by azmundai yep of all the new era mmos it was over the fastest. ive never had the displeasure of playing through more shallow and easy mode content in my life. broke the new mmo formula wide open in that regard.LOL - this is the typical anti-GW2 comment - so funny!. How far did you get? lvl 10? just asking - try Orr or Southsun Coast solo an see if it is easy. JEEZ!!

fully discovered orr, solo on a thief. sure i followed some zergs around as well, but there really wasn't anything interesting and the only reason it was challenging was because the mobs were packed in like sardines. luckily as a thief I could just train and stealth. id have probably quit way earlier if I had to actually clear through the hordes of meaningless mobs in that horrible zone. cleared most of the dungeons and even spent a few weeks in wvw ... uninstalled 2 months after purchase. boring, repetitive game with zero community and zero endgame ... even came back for the wvw revamp ... /lol yawn

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2812

5/07/13 12:58:40 PM#50
Originally posted by dlld
Originally posted by Manolios
Originally posted by pmiles

Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

 

Still no subscription fees... check

Still no trinity... check

 

Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

 

Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

 

Don't you just love trends?

 

wow is running in circles while gw2 is making improvements...thats an experts opinion i guess?

hmmm gw2 after only 8 months has ''lost'' how many of the daily player base? maybe half? and its a game you only pay once. imagine this game with a sub? i guess you just cant...

wow after almost 10 years has more than 7m subs. not free or b2p users but subs. can you understant the difference?

and yes, we all love trends :)

Nobody but Anet nows how many people have actually quit so that's just pure speculation.

I believed it was 9million last but at the same time that number make me cringe a bit due to the chinese payment model. MoP sold about 3mil so it has 3~ mil western subs.

I haven't played WoW in a long time but I believe the basics are what they always been ie raids and gear which does not exist in that form in GW2. So I guess I would have to say it has broken the "wow formula".

Anet hasn't released how many people have actually quit. But neither has Blizzard released any info so as to how many people pay $15 a month. Also people again assume that what China pay is less than a meagre sub of 8.99. We have no figures to support either claim. Also 3m was in the first week (s?) wasn't it? We don't know how many copies they ended up selling in the end.

My point is he is making an assumption that half of GW2's playerbase has quit based on no facts. However, you are also making an assumption about WoW's subs based on no facts. 

@OP, the games are very different. In what ways? Do some research. It will probably take tages to type up all the differences as the games have almost nothing in common.

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  Lovely_Laly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 736

game is also real

5/07/13 1:02:24 PM#51

I played WoW for like 2-2,5 year and left for several reasons but was not fed-up of game.

I played GW2 like 4 months, got fed-up and left.

I don't know what is "WoW formula", but GW2 to me was a single player (or on-line non MMO) console-like game w/o deepness.

try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3088

I am more than some of my parts

5/07/13 1:06:15 PM#52
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by kjempff

 

I like the dynamic events and alot of the mechanics and features, jump puzzles. Mini stories/adventurers are clever compared to kill 10 rats types although a bit heavy on the escort types of missions, its just that I don't really care.. in 10 minutes the same merchant is back wanting the same escort. Take back a centaur infested town, and 5 mins later centaurs are back in control, why did I bother?. Clear some mobs, bam same mobs attack me less than a minute after I just killed them. Those things does not make dynamic, it makes it feel constructed.

  

 

Need to touch on this point... you sound like someone that didn't wait around to follow event chains. For example, you defend the town from centaurs. Event will spawn to begin pushing into centaur country. Eventually you wind up with the mega-event fighting the Champion centaur and his minions. You need to push a lot of events or yes, they'll push you instead.

And then as soon as you are done, it recycles and the same thing happens again. Maybe if they only popped once or twice a day it might be fine, but most of them recycle so quickly that you see them happen so many times and begin to careless about if so and so needs and escort or if the centaurs control some bridge. There really aren't significant enough consequences for not doing them for it to matter.

They should have added raiding to eliminate the problem with repeating content! Am I right Steve? 

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  DKLond

Elite Member

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 574

5/07/13 1:06:42 PM#53

I really admire a lot about GW2 - and especially the sheer passion and talent that went into crafting that beautiful world and the amazingly smooth combat system.

Ultimately, however, I consider the overall design rather underwhelming.

It's the kind of concept that sounds absolutely brilliant in theory - if you're slightly drunk and you're sick of the standard MMO treadmill.

But a truly insightful game designer would have realised that simply removing all the "hassle" and pouring your heart and soul into making the game is not going to cut it.

You have to understand why certain things appeal to people - and that "grind" or "hard work" is the essence behind any reward system. It's about psychology.

There has to be a balance - and that balance is constantly changing. In the past, we had severe death penalties and hours of corpse running. That balance has changed.

But if you push it too quickly and without great care - you will take out the essence.

That's what I think GW2 did in a lot of ways.

NOT all ways - but a lot of ways.

Also, it repeats the mistakes of WoW. It fails to provide true roleplaying avenues of gameplay. It fails to give power to the players when it comes to end-game content. It fails to provide a PvP experience for people who enjoy PvP with severe consequences. These things CAN happen in a game that also provides things for everyone else. It just takes smart design.

So, in the end, GW2 was a great idea in theory and it's executed very well. But, in practice, the idea isn't as good as so many people keep insisting it is. It SHOULD be in their minds - but it's really not.

That's how I see it.

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

5/07/13 1:17:05 PM#54

I agree the art work was exceptional.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  korent1991

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1405

5/07/13 1:22:41 PM#55
Originally posted by Manolios
Originally posted by pmiles

Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

 

Still no subscription fees... check

Still no trinity... check

 

Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

 

Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

 

Don't you just love trends?

 

wow is running in circles while gw2 is making improvements...thats an experts opinion i guess?

hmmm gw2 after only 8 months has ''lost'' how many of the daily player base? maybe half? and its a game you only pay once. imagine this game with a sub? i guess you just cant...

wow after almost 10 years has more than 7m subs. not free or b2p users but subs. can you understant the difference?

and yes, we all love trends :)

and why do people always try to compare games on this "if it's a sub" basis ... well it is not , deal with it.. every game can be compared but you have to look at the whole package.

ANet chose that model because it has proven good and they earned enough money from GW1 on that model to make GW2 and now in GW2 they're making more than enough money since they're constantly updating the game and giving players huge content packs for free. Can you imagine blizzard doing that with wow lately? I guess you just can't...

Also you have to take into consideration that GW2 sold mills of copies without china... WOW has 7 mill with china. If you're already pulling up the numbers you could put them in a decent perspective.

GW2 managed to get exciting and good combat system which works good without the trinity. They were creative enough to come up with it and they had the guts to do it so they're as far as they can be from wow here.

There are no quests, but there are renown hearts which help you while you're exploring the world and you just don't know where to start or go.. It's still not like quests but it does come a little bit close to it, ofcourse you don't have to do them in order to advance which is alot different than wow.

I already said about constant updates so I guess that's a plus on anets side as well...

The artwork is just amazing in GW2 and I really do like that, also music is J.S. and that kinda speaks for itself... So on the music aspect and artwork/graphics -> GW2.

What I like more about blizzard is their astonoshingly awesome trailers or short movies. That's something I always like to take a look at even if I'm planning on playing the next expansion or not.

I like how gw2 isn't dumbed down because it's "too hard" sometimes... That was something I liked about WOW as well in vanilla and BC until they ruined it.

Only interesting thing is that I didn't have that same feeling which i had when I first entered WOW. But it did come close to it.. I can't explain it tho xD weird 

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  Qullex

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/11
Posts: 12

5/07/13 1:29:40 PM#56
Originally posted by stevebombsquad

You are trying to tell me that the population is the same as it was at launch or even two months afterwards? It isn't. Not even close. You can spin it anyway that you want, but the reality of the matter is that the population is way less. I don't hate the game, and I still play it occasionally. But let's be real, it isn't growing.

My personal ancecdotal experience has been: huge launch spike, numbers taper off in the fall (MoP is released), huge numbers come back around Christmas. Numbers may be dropping off now, I have no way of knowing. But just yesterday I was answering questions from a new player in starting zone on an alt.

Accoridng to this article from two months ago (six months after launch) the game is still growing: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/07/how-guild-wars-2-plans-to-survive. Known facts do not match quoted assertion.

  dlld

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/08
Posts: 516

5/07/13 1:58:08 PM#57
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by dlld
Originally posted by Manolios
Originally posted by pmiles

Any game came break the WoW formula... it's a matter of whether they have the balls to stick with it.

 

Still no subscription fees... check

Still no trinity... check

 

Yep, ArenaNet's balls are still intact.

 

Blizzard on the other hand constantly explain to the playerbase how things didn't go as they expected, how they've learned from this and how they are going to avoid it in the future.  That is true... they've found new ways to screw things up with each new patch.

GW2 is making improvements... WoW is running in circles.

GW2 8 months in... WoW 8 years in...

 

Don't you just love trends?

 

wow is running in circles while gw2 is making improvements...thats an experts opinion i guess?

hmmm gw2 after only 8 months has ''lost'' how many of the daily player base? maybe half? and its a game you only pay once. imagine this game with a sub? i guess you just cant...

wow after almost 10 years has more than 7m subs. not free or b2p users but subs. can you understant the difference?

and yes, we all love trends :)

Nobody but Anet nows how many people have actually quit so that's just pure speculation.

I believed it was 9million last but at the same time that number make me cringe a bit due to the chinese payment model. MoP sold about 3mil so it has 3~ mil western subs.

I haven't played WoW in a long time but I believe the basics are what they always been ie raids and gear which does not exist in that form in GW2. So I guess I would have to say it has broken the "wow formula".

Anet hasn't released how many people have actually quit. But neither has Blizzard released any info so as to how many people pay $15 a month. Also people again assume that what China pay is less than a meagre sub of 8.99. We have no figures to support either claim. Also 3m was in the first week (s?) wasn't it? We don't know how many copies they ended up selling in the end.

My point is he is making an assumption that half of GW2's playerbase has quit based on no facts. However, you are also making an assumption about WoW's subs based on no facts. 

@OP, the games are very different. In what ways? Do some research. It will probably take tages to type up all the differences as the games have almost nothing in common.

It's less of an assumption and more of an educated guess, subbing to wow without owning the latest xpack is damn near useless so it's fair to say the number of sold copies of mop is very close to the sub number or lower (due to people just coming back a month or two to check/finish the xpack then leave til the next).

MoP sold 2,7 million in it's first week it's reasonable to assume it has hit 3mil now but doubtedly broken 4 (considering the relative lackluster initial sale of mop it would make sense to announce large milestones like that, they updated diablo sales multiple times didn't they). Either way at best the standard 15 a month western base makes up 50% (4,5mil) of the playerbase.

Chinese would need to play for 200 hours a month or average a bit over 6 and a half hours a day to spend the equivalent of todays 15 bucks unless they changed the rate of 0.45 yuan/hour i managed to google. Make of that what you will I suppose.

  stevebombsquad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 609

5/07/13 2:53:43 PM#58
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by kjempff

 

I like the dynamic events and alot of the mechanics and features, jump puzzles. Mini stories/adventurers are clever compared to kill 10 rats types although a bit heavy on the escort types of missions, its just that I don't really care.. in 10 minutes the same merchant is back wanting the same escort. Take back a centaur infested town, and 5 mins later centaurs are back in control, why did I bother?. Clear some mobs, bam same mobs attack me less than a minute after I just killed them. Those things does not make dynamic, it makes it feel constructed.

  

 

Need to touch on this point... you sound like someone that didn't wait around to follow event chains. For example, you defend the town from centaurs. Event will spawn to begin pushing into centaur country. Eventually you wind up with the mega-event fighting the Champion centaur and his minions. You need to push a lot of events or yes, they'll push you instead.

And then as soon as you are done, it recycles and the same thing happens again. Maybe if they only popped once or twice a day it might be fine, but most of them recycle so quickly that you see them happen so many times and begin to careless about if so and so needs and escort or if the centaurs control some bridge. There really aren't significant enough consequences for not doing them for it to matter.

They should have added raiding to eliminate the problem with repeating content! Am I right Steve? 

Sure why not. It often takes my guild a few month or two to finish a raid all the way through. The events sure don't entertain us for that long.  I still play GW2, but it really has some issues in the longevity department. While it entertains a few people, there are lots of people with the same complaint. The events were painted in a much better light than they were when actually experienced. 

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3564

5/07/13 3:07:37 PM#59
Difference is that raiding is on a one week lockout. DE's are what every 30mins? Much higher frequency which means quicker consumption by the player base. I wish Anet delivered on what they promised when it comes to DE'S. Remember the 'zone wide changes! ' claim? :(

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  bcbully

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7260

 
OP  5/07/13 3:13:14 PM#60
There's been some really good post in this thread. Thank you for staying on topic, for the most part :p

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

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