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General Discussion  » Breaking the lore

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  asrlohz

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 666

Alea iacta est, beloved Doomsayers.

 
OP  5/06/13 4:45:09 PM#1

As a huge lore buff when it comes to The Elder Scrolls series I was rather disappointed when in the "Ask Us Anything" they revealed a couple of lore-breaking moments.

What I'd mainly like to get to I'll quote below:

 

Books have always held an important place in the lore of The Elder Scrolls, and those that increase skills are my favorite. Will we be able to find these two types of books in ESO? Will there be a sequel to "The Lusty Argonian Maid"? – By Emmanuelle Mareuil

The current plan is to have both those kinds of books in ESO – and plenty of them. We have new lore books (by the scad) and old favorites from previous TES games – including both volumes of “The Lusty Argonian Maid.”

 

Long story short, the Author of "The Lusty Argonian Maid" was imperial and was born somewhere during the third era. Whilst TESO will take place in the second era if I am not mistaken. Other than that they implied that the beastial races have an equal lifespan of the human kind which I will quote below:

 

"Elves live two to three times as long as humans and the “beast-races” (Orcs, Khajiiti, Argonians). A 200-year-old Elf is old; a 300-year-old Elf is very, very old indeed. Anyone older than that has prolonged his or her lifespan through powerful magic."

 

To start with, the "Orcs" are called Orsimer and are shortlived elves. They have about half the life expectancy of the Imperial and the Breton. Most bestial races can not be expected to live as long as the "human" kind. Mer on the other hand (disregarding the Orsimer) seem to be on the spot in their answer.

 

I don't mind that they are squeezing themselves into the empty period of the second era. But they should atleast try to not break the lore like that. Maybe their Loremaster isn't indepth in their lore after all?

 

Source:

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2013/05/03/ask-us-anything-variety-pack-4

  Total_Hunt

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/13
Posts: 66

5/06/13 4:47:55 PM#2
Maybe you should be the Loremaster ;)
  asrlohz

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 666

Alea iacta est, beloved Doomsayers.

 
OP  5/06/13 5:22:59 PM#3
Originally posted by Total_Hunt
Maybe you should be the Loremaster ;)

If I had his voice, I would be! Hah!

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

5/06/13 5:44:22 PM#4
Is this really that important?
  Alverad

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 12

5/06/13 6:27:31 PM#5

Yes and no.  It's not game breaking, but considering you're dealing with a well known and loved IP, showing some respect to your audience, by at the least not fiddling with things that don't negatively affect game design, would only be appropriate.  And a loremaster, well....you can hardly expect players will cheer when you twist and turn what's already been written to suit your liking, or worse, out of ignorance.  

The game has already had a fair amount of bad press, one would think, they'd be more careful on certain fronts:(

  WhiteLantern

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2782

5/06/13 6:31:23 PM#6
Damn red-shirt-guys. Always pointing out holes in the lore.

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3712

5/06/13 7:07:33 PM#7
Originally posted by Alverad

Yes and no.  It's not game breaking, but considering you're dealing with a well known and loved IP, showing some respect to your audience, by at the least not fiddling with things that don't negatively affect game design, would only be appropriate.  And a loremaster, well....you can hardly expect players will cheer when you twist and turn what's already been written to suit your liking, or worse, out of ignorance.  

The game has already had a fair amount of bad press, one would think, they'd be more careful on certain fronts:(

Fans can be over picky as well. Look at Star Wars and Star Trek. Both have a deep lore that has changed over the years to fit the now. Superman at the start could not fly and could only jump over buildings. As time went on the lore changed to fit the now and the needs. Its little changes that over time change the whole or part of any stories lore. Sometimes its needed and sometimes its not. Looking back at ESO 10 years from now... I bet it will have changed the lore a lot and fans will be nit picking over new changes quoting ESO as the new lore book. Really that big a deal?? Guess thats up to the fans. For me... (((shrugs))) At this point it seems close enough but we wont really know till we play it as a whole.

  Slampig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2407

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

5/06/13 7:12:56 PM#8
Originally posted by asrlohz

As a huge lore buff when it comes to The Elder Scrolls series I was rather disappointed when in the "Ask Us Anything" they revealed a couple of lore-breaking moments.

What I'd mainly like to get to I'll quote below:

 

Books have always held an important place in the lore of The Elder Scrolls, and those that increase skills are my favorite. Will we be able to find these two types of books in ESO? Will there be a sequel to "The Lusty Argonian Maid"? – By Emmanuelle Mareuil

The current plan is to have both those kinds of books in ESO – and plenty of them. We have new lore books (by the scad) and old favorites from previous TES games – including both volumes of “The Lusty Argonian Maid.”

 

Long story short, the Author of "The Lusty Argonian Maid" was imperial and was born somewhere during the third era. Whilst TESO will take place in the second era if I am not mistaken. Other than that they implied that the beastial races have an equal lifespan of the human kind which I will quote below:

 

"Elves live two to three times as long as humans and the “beast-races” (Orcs, Khajiiti, Argonians). A 200-year-old Elf is old; a 300-year-old Elf is very, very old indeed. Anyone older than that has prolonged his or her lifespan through powerful magic."

 

To start with, the "Orcs" are called Orsimer and are shortlived elves. They have about half the life expectancy of the Imperial and the Breton. Most bestial races can not be expected to live as long as the "human" kind. Mer on the other hand (disregarding the Orsimer) seem to be on the spot in their answer.

 

I don't mind that they are squeezing themselves into the empty period of the second era. But they should atleast try to not break the lore like that. Maybe their Loremaster isn't indepth in their lore after all?

 

Source:

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2013/05/03/ask-us-anything-variety-pack-4

While I am not a Lorehead such as yourself, I do get into it some. In this case though, unless this game strictly ties into the single-player games then I don't see it as such a huge deal. If they toss some things in people would recognize from the single-player games then no harm. If this game striclty tied into the other games though, then yeah, I can see the problem, but ONLY if the person seeing it is a huge lore hound.

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  Comaf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1145

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

5/06/13 7:14:26 PM#9
Originally posted by rygard49
Is this really that important?

I had this issue with Age of Conan, and necromancers/demonologists, running with pets out in Cimmeria where they would be insta gibbed.  Seeing priests of mitra killing each other in the cosmetic make up of races and classes that made aoc a video game an not an mmorpg - was frustrating. 

There are endless mmorpgs that really don't get the concept of the RPG part of the title.  But there's no oversight committee that stops these games from calling themselves mmoRPG.  People just have to make their own decisions as to what they can or cannot accept. 

 

So, yes.  I believe that's why you don't use an mmorpg's name without being strict to the lore.  It's utter nonsense what happened in Age of Conan and other titles - but to the average gamer who just wants a temporary game, this matters little.

 

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

5/06/13 7:14:40 PM#10
Originally posted by Alverad

Yes and no.  It's not game breaking, but considering you're dealing with a well known and loved IP, showing some respect to your audience, by at the least not fiddling with things that don't negatively affect game design, would only be appropriate.  And a loremaster, well....you can hardly expect players will cheer when you twist and turn what's already been written to suit your liking, or worse, out of ignorance.  

The game has already had a fair amount of bad press, one would think, they'd be more careful on certain fronts:(

But, the person who asked the question is a part of that audience, and they asked for there to be a sequel the The Lusty Argonian Maid. So clearly they either didn't know about the discrepency in when the book series was supposedly written, or they didn't care and just wanted the funny content regardless of how pardoxically implausible it would be to add it in the lore. So are they really disrespecting their audience?

I'd be willing to bet 99.99% of people who play ES wouldn't question whether or not the book was supposed to have been written in this time period or not. When it comes to nitpicking this game, complaining about The Lusty Argonian Maid being in the game before its time is probably one of the most glaring examples.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

5/06/13 7:21:20 PM#11
Originally posted by Comaf
Originally posted by rygard49
Is this really that important?

I had this issue with Age of Conan, and necromancers/demonologists, running with pets out in Cimmeria where they would be insta gibbed.  Seeing priests of mitra killing each other in the cosmetic make up of races and classes that made aoc a video game an not an mmorpg - was frustrating. 

 

So, yes.  I believe that's why you don't use an mmorpg's name without being strict to the lore.  It's utter nonsense what happened in Age of Conan and other titles - but to the average gamer who just wants a temporary game, this matters little.

What's the difference between a video game and an MMORPG? Why would an MMO have to be held to stricter standards as far as the lore? I would think the opposite. In order to have a massive audience playing simultaneously, you have to concede certain aspects of lore to allow that. Not that this book thing is in the same vein as Priests of Mitra killing each other in AoC.

This complaint about a book being in the game at the wrong time period... This is just minutiae that very few would even notice, let alone care about.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17626

5/06/13 8:08:34 PM#12
Originally posted by asrlohz
Originally posted by Total_Hunt
Maybe you should be the Loremaster ;)

If I had his voice, I would be! Hah!

Yeah, his voice is a bit too cool, damn loremaster!

 

I keep thinking that he used to be a classis major, did some shakespeare or brecht, did writing on the side and "yadda yadda yadda" became lore guy for Bethesda.

  asrlohz

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 666

Alea iacta est, beloved Doomsayers.

 
OP  5/07/13 2:47:25 AM#13
Originally posted by Slampig
Originally posted by asrlohz

As a huge lore buff when it comes to The Elder Scrolls series I was rather disappointed when in the "Ask Us Anything" they revealed a couple of lore-breaking moments.

What I'd mainly like to get to I'll quote below:

 

Books have always held an important place in the lore of The Elder Scrolls, and those that increase skills are my favorite. Will we be able to find these two types of books in ESO? Will there be a sequel to "The Lusty Argonian Maid"? – By Emmanuelle Mareuil

The current plan is to have both those kinds of books in ESO – and plenty of them. We have new lore books (by the scad) and old favorites from previous TES games – including both volumes of “The Lusty Argonian Maid.”

 

Long story short, the Author of "The Lusty Argonian Maid" was imperial and was born somewhere during the third era. Whilst TESO will take place in the second era if I am not mistaken. Other than that they implied that the beastial races have an equal lifespan of the human kind which I will quote below:

 

"Elves live two to three times as long as humans and the “beast-races” (Orcs, Khajiiti, Argonians). A 200-year-old Elf is old; a 300-year-old Elf is very, very old indeed. Anyone older than that has prolonged his or her lifespan through powerful magic."

 

To start with, the "Orcs" are called Orsimer and are shortlived elves. They have about half the life expectancy of the Imperial and the Breton. Most bestial races can not be expected to live as long as the "human" kind. Mer on the other hand (disregarding the Orsimer) seem to be on the spot in their answer.

 

I don't mind that they are squeezing themselves into the empty period of the second era. But they should atleast try to not break the lore like that. Maybe their Loremaster isn't indepth in their lore after all?

 

Source:

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2013/05/03/ask-us-anything-variety-pack-4

While I am not a Lorehead such as yourself, I do get into it some. In this case though, unless this game strictly ties into the single-player games then I don't see it as such a huge deal. If they toss some things in people would recognize from the single-player games then no harm. If this game striclty tied into the other games though, then yeah, I can see the problem, but ONLY if the person seeing it is a huge lore hound.

You can actually meet the author in the singleplayer game "The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind" and it would be strange to find his perverse yet hilarious books before he was even born. Think of him as the Author of the Harry Potter series. (I have no idea what her name is) They play the role as the fiction literature in the Elder Scrolls universe and adds to the immersion.

Crassius Curio is the author's name and you had a memorable meeting with him in the game which you can read about here:

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Crassius_Curio

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 7019

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

5/07/13 2:57:08 AM#14
Originally posted by Total_Hunt
Maybe you should be the Loremaster ;)

LOL ya he is definitely entwined into it :D

Personally i prefer brand new lore in my games,i don't like following old Lore,it gets borign after a while.Example EQ2 did the same thing and even had quests in honor of old EQ1 called Heritage quests.There is nothing wrong with rehashing old Lore in a new game,i just prefer fresh and new.

I think others are in the same as playing the very games we play ,they are pretty much all identical,it is the fresh new that makes it interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  asrlohz

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 666

Alea iacta est, beloved Doomsayers.

 
OP  5/07/13 2:59:40 AM#15
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Alverad

Yes and no.  It's not game breaking, but considering you're dealing with a well known and loved IP, showing some respect to your audience, by at the least not fiddling with things that don't negatively affect game design, would only be appropriate.  And a loremaster, well....you can hardly expect players will cheer when you twist and turn what's already been written to suit your liking, or worse, out of ignorance.  

The game has already had a fair amount of bad press, one would think, they'd be more careful on certain fronts:(

But, the person who asked the question is a part of that audience, and they asked for there to be a sequel the The Lusty Argonian Maid. So clearly they either didn't know about the discrepency in when the book series was supposedly written, or they didn't care and just wanted the funny content regardless of how pardoxically implausible it would be to add it in the lore. So are they really disrespecting their audience?

I'd be willing to bet 99.99% of people who play ES wouldn't question whether or not the book was supposed to have been written in this time period or not. When it comes to nitpicking this game, complaining about The Lusty Argonian Maid being in the game before its time is probably one of the most glaring examples.

They claimed that they would remove a lot of books that were not written yet awhile ago. But if they could atleast make a silly conspiracy around it and claim that author Crassius Cario was actually a mer of some kind or using unholy arts, sure. I would say "That's dumb. But atleast it's not just a book written by someone who hasn't been born yet"

  asrlohz

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 666

Alea iacta est, beloved Doomsayers.

 
OP  5/07/13 3:05:04 AM#16
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by Total_Hunt
Maybe you should be the Loremaster ;)

LOL ya he is definitely entwined into it :D

Personally i prefer brand new lore in my games,i don't like following old Lore,it gets borign after a while.Example EQ2 did the same thing and even had quests in honor of old EQ1 called Heritage quests.There is nothing wrong with rehashing old Lore in a new game,i just prefer fresh and new.

I think others are in the same as playing the very games we play ,they are pretty much all identical,it is the fresh new that makes it interesting.

I agree. It is great with new lore in a new game. However they did place the game in the empty period in the Second Era which is great. They have a mostly unpainted canvas to work with.

But the game is still an Elder Scrolls game, even if it is a spinoff. And should atleast keep true to the lore that is already set or work around it without just haphazardly adding popular in-game books in the wrong eras.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17626

5/07/13 7:55:42 AM#17
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by Total_Hunt
Maybe you should be the Loremaster ;)

LOL ya he is definitely entwined into it :D

Personally i prefer brand new lore in my games,i don't like following old Lore,it gets borign after a while.Example EQ2 did the same thing and even had quests in honor of old EQ1 called Heritage quests.There is nothing wrong with rehashing old Lore in a new game,i just prefer fresh and new.

I think others are in the same as playing the very games we play ,they are pretty much all identical,it is the fresh new that makes it interesting.

To me fresh and new content is interesting but a game entrenched in a deep vast heritage helps with depth of the world.

It's interesting for me to come upon a field and know that somethign had happened there "way back" and now something new is happening.

It's interesting to see cohesive world story and lore all the while playing something new on top of it.

That's why connecting history (real history) is fun and exciting.

  Stromm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 250

5/07/13 7:58:09 AM#18
Originally posted by asrlohz

As a huge lore buff when it comes to The Elder Scrolls series I was rather disappointed when in the "Ask Us Anything" they revealed a couple of lore-breaking moments.

What I'd mainly like to get to I'll quote below:

 

Books have always held an important place in the lore of The Elder Scrolls, and those that increase skills are my favorite. Will we be able to find these two types of books in ESO? Will there be a sequel to "The Lusty Argonian Maid"? – By Emmanuelle Mareuil

The current plan is to have both those kinds of books in ESO – and plenty of them. We have new lore books (by the scad) and old favorites from previous TES games – including both volumes of “The Lusty Argonian Maid.”

 

Long story short, the Author of "The Lusty Argonian Maid" was imperial and was born somewhere during the third era. Whilst TESO will take place in the second era if I am not mistaken. Other than that they implied that the beastial races have an equal lifespan of the human kind which I will quote below:

 

"Elves live two to three times as long as humans and the “beast-races” (Orcs, Khajiiti, Argonians). A 200-year-old Elf is old; a 300-year-old Elf is very, very old indeed. Anyone older than that has prolonged his or her lifespan through powerful magic."

 

To start with, the "Orcs" are called Orsimer and are shortlived elves. They have about half the life expectancy of the Imperial and the Breton. Most bestial races can not be expected to live as long as the "human" kind. Mer on the other hand (disregarding the Orsimer) seem to be on the spot in their answer.

 

I don't mind that they are squeezing themselves into the empty period of the second era. But they should atleast try to not break the lore like that. Maybe their Loremaster isn't indepth in their lore after all?

 

Source:

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2013/05/03/ask-us-anything-variety-pack-4

"I cast Magic Missiles at the darkness".

  NL-Rikkert

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 125

Currently playing:Allods Online,Trove (Beta),HOMM3

5/07/13 9:04:25 AM#19
Originally posted by rygard49
Is this really that important?

To a random MMO player? NO

To a true TES fan? VERY MUCH SO 

The only reason a TES fan would want to play TESO is because it gives the same lore and (preferably as close as) the same experience as its SP counterpart.

Unfortunately as a TES fan, the more I hear and see about this MMO the less I am attracted to it.

If it is F2P I will definately take a look myself. If it is B2P I will wait for reviews. If it is P2P they are doomed already...

 

(Dear trolls, this post was my opinion and my opinion only! If you feel the need to hate please go elsewhere as your desire for a flame battle shall not be fulfilled here. Good day!)

STOOPID
When someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.

  asrlohz

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 666

Alea iacta est, beloved Doomsayers.

 
OP  5/07/13 9:05:59 AM#20
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by Total_Hunt
Maybe you should be the Loremaster ;)

LOL ya he is definitely entwined into it :D

Personally i prefer brand new lore in my games,i don't like following old Lore,it gets borign after a while.Example EQ2 did the same thing and even had quests in honor of old EQ1 called Heritage quests.There is nothing wrong with rehashing old Lore in a new game,i just prefer fresh and new.

I think others are in the same as playing the very games we play ,they are pretty much all identical,it is the fresh new that makes it interesting.

To me fresh and new content is interesting but a game entrenched in a deep vast heritage helps with depth of the world.

It's interesting for me to come upon a field and know that somethign had happened there "way back" and now something new is happening.

It's interesting to see cohesive world story and lore all the while playing something new on top of it.

That's why connecting history (real history) is fun and exciting.

Aye, but if they keep breaking the lore in favour of their newly found casual fanbase they are basically going Ancient Aliens.

The point being that the Ancient Aliens series disregard a ton of history and facts in favour of their silly conspiracies.

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