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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » What SWTOR really needs

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122 posts found
  koboldfodder

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 370

5/04/13 5:10:38 PM#41

SWTOR is a pathetic MMO.  I played SWG from the second day after release (because you could not play the first day) and yes, it failed.  It failed big time.  It was such a monumental failure that it totally derailed the sandbox sub genre.  Ironically, it is the very same people who killed the sandbox MMO that are trying to revive it with Everquest Next.

 

SWG failed because it was always a technical flopfest.  Nothing worked in that game.  The day they shut down the game there were bugs from the first day of release (I am looking at you, random inventory item switching bugs).  They never had a stable game. 

 

Combine the technical nightmare with the fact that when the game was launched there were no quests, no loot, no dungeons.....and you quickly had people doing nothing once they leveled their character.  If you wanted to be the typical MMO adventurer you were out of luck with SWG and the developers knew this.

 

But they waited too long.  Their decision was to do the CU and NGE.....and they released the patch notes a DAY before that thing went live.  They bamboozled the entire player base with crippling changes to the core of the entire game....and they never bothered telling the players until the day before.  I am sure someone saved the long post on the original SWG forums, it is a pretty good read.

 

That is why SWG failed.  I played it, had a great time doing all the things you could do pre-NGE and even enjoyed it post NGE but to sit here and say SWG did not fail is basically admitting that you never even played the game.

 

New Coke, Betamax, Ford Edsel, SWG.....yeah, that kind of fail.

  WalterWhite

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 408

It's time to cook.

5/04/13 5:52:20 PM#42

So, if SWG was such a failure, why do current MMO's fail to meet it's level of technical brilliance. It had free roam space, open world PvP, player cities, a housing system matched by none, player run shops, player run economy, unparalleled crafting system, unique skill tree's, and so much more to offer which has not been matched since.

It had it's flaws I grant you but they were not in the quantity of the current shite you have in it's replacement. I know which I would rather play anyway.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17594

5/04/13 6:04:42 PM#43
Originally posted by DocBrody

Hello,

so I tried out SWTOR for some time. Let these videos show you what is missing in SWTOR in my opinion:

 

SPACE EXPLORATION


 

OMG NO!

That was so boring and tedious. Maybe if there was a smarter way to probe space as opposed to the absolute tedium that represented.

  DocBrody

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1638

 
OP  5/04/13 6:54:12 PM#44
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by DocBrody

Hello,

so I tried out SWTOR for some time. Let these videos show you what is missing in SWTOR in my opinion:

 

SPACE EXPLORATION


 

OMG NO!

That was so boring and tedious. Maybe if there was a smarter way to probe space as opposed to the absolute tedium that represented.

 

Hello Sovrath,

fine - you like gamey games, I like immersive realistic simulations.

What is boring for you is exciting for other people.

But you are right, something sophisticated like the scanning in EvE wouldn't work in SWTOR, wrong target audience I guess.

e.g. The horrible one click crafting in SWTOR speaks for itself. Most dumbed down interpretation of crafting I have ever seen, in any MMO.

Cheers,

Doc B

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17594

5/04/13 7:01:04 PM#45
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by DocBrody

Hello,

so I tried out SWTOR for some time. Let these videos show you what is missing in SWTOR in my opinion:

 

SPACE EXPLORATION


 

OMG NO!

That was so boring and tedious. Maybe if there was a smarter way to probe space as opposed to the absolute tedium that represented.

 

Hello Sovrath,

fine - you like gamey games, I like immersive realistic simulations.

What is boring for you is exciting for other people.

But you are right, something sophisticated like the scanning in EvE wouldn't work in SWTOR, wrong target audience I guess.

e.g. The horrible one click crafting in SWTOR speaks for itself. Most dumbed down interpretation of crafting I have ever seen, in any MMO.

Cheers,

Doc B

you insinuate so much and yet you know nothing about me.

What I saw there was a ridiculous process that required more effort than was required. Breaking down something as simple as what I saw there to multiple tasks when it wasn't even required borders on ridiculous.

1, launch probes, then open map, then...

How about laucign probes and a map suddenly opens with the launchign of the probes.

multiple components do not indicate depth or complexity.

 

  DocBrody

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1638

 
OP  5/04/13 7:18:46 PM#46
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by DocBrody

Hello,

so I tried out SWTOR for some time. Let these videos show you what is missing in SWTOR in my opinion:

 

SPACE EXPLORATION


 

OMG NO!

That was so boring and tedious. Maybe if there was a smarter way to probe space as opposed to the absolute tedium that represented.

 

Hello Sovrath,

fine - you like gamey games, I like immersive realistic simulations.

What is boring for you is exciting for other people.

But you are right, something sophisticated like the scanning in EvE wouldn't work in SWTOR, wrong target audience I guess.

e.g. The horrible one click crafting in SWTOR speaks for itself. Most dumbed down interpretation of crafting I have ever seen, in any MMO.

Cheers,

Doc B

you insinuate so much and yet you know nothing about me.

What I saw there was a ridiculous process that required more effort than was required. Breaking down something as simple as what I saw there to multiple tasks when it wasn't even required borders on ridiculous.

1, launch probes, then open map, then...

How about laucign probes and a map suddenly opens with the launchign of the probes.

multiple components do not indicate depth or complexity.

 

ok, the scanning process was indeed a little tedious, but probe formation presets and some other improvements coming for the next EvE update

http://youtu.be/SXojDrEOzMw

at 7:35

I'd just like to have an exploration/scanning aspect in SWTOR space sim part, should it ever become reality

 

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

5/04/13 11:16:40 PM#47
Originally posted by RefMinor
A reverse NGE.

This.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17594

5/05/13 12:06:02 AM#48
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by DocBrody

Hello,

so I tried out SWTOR for some time. Let these videos show you what is missing in SWTOR in my opinion:

 

SPACE EXPLORATION


 

OMG NO!

That was so boring and tedious. Maybe if there was a smarter way to probe space as opposed to the absolute tedium that represented.

 

Hello Sovrath,

fine - you like gamey games, I like immersive realistic simulations.

What is boring for you is exciting for other people.

But you are right, something sophisticated like the scanning in EvE wouldn't work in SWTOR, wrong target audience I guess.

e.g. The horrible one click crafting in SWTOR speaks for itself. Most dumbed down interpretation of crafting I have ever seen, in any MMO.

Cheers,

Doc B

you insinuate so much and yet you know nothing about me.

What I saw there was a ridiculous process that required more effort than was required. Breaking down something as simple as what I saw there to multiple tasks when it wasn't even required borders on ridiculous.

1, launch probes, then open map, then...

How about laucign probes and a map suddenly opens with the launchign of the probes.

multiple components do not indicate depth or complexity.

 

ok, the scanning process was indeed a little tedious, but probe formation presets and some other improvements coming for the next EvE update

http://youtu.be/SXojDrEOzMw

at 7:35

I'd just like to have an exploration/scanning aspect in SWTOR space sim part, should it ever become reality

 

Thank you.

I'm all for adding depth, features, really making a space game robust. But it's always important to make things flow and streamlined.

Bring on new game play elements but my thought is that the average person should always have an easy time with all the game play elements until such time as the complexity can be added that will really enhance the game.

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

5/05/13 12:40:39 AM#49
Originally posted by BreakingBad

So, if SWG was such a failure, why do current MMO's fail to meet it's level of technical brilliance. It had free roam space, open world PvP, player cities, a housing system matched by none, player run shops, player run economy, unparalleled crafting system, unique skill tree's, and so much more to offer which has not been matched since.

It had it's flaws I grant you but they were not in the quantity of the current shite you have in it's replacement. I know which I would rather play anyway.

technical brilliance doesnt save a game,,wow have a fair amount of bugs,,huge success

i never saw a bug in the month i was playing EVE, but that doesnt help them much

if a game is good enough, a player will suffer through it all

but bad gameplay AND bugs will drive players away

as i see it, both star wars mmos are suffering from the same

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

5/05/13 1:17:26 AM#50
Originally posted by Maaku

I'm half and half I guess on most of these (Deathstar, really? Meh!). As for hardcore, just no. If I was still in college with nothing else to do of my evenings and weekends, ok, maybe but the mmo crowd is VAST. From the kid barely out of his diaper to old timers like me who enjoyed a good old text based game. This has been said a million times but there is NO WAY you'll satisfy everyone with a game. Even all the changes the OP asked for.

So, is it what the game NEEDS, no. What the game needs is subscribers that stick with it long enough to get these changes, additions, suggestions in.

Given the chance, time and money, I'm sure the swtor team could add these worlds and features (Most). There's so many ways to go around some of the games limitations, really not an issue. The problem is they'll never get the capital to do it so here people sit crying about what might be when you've already given up on your best chance.

We've lived in a 'Consumer is always right' mentality for too fucking long. Hell, kids today are crying a damn fit if daddy doesn't buy them the latest iPhone... Well boohoo you little fucking snot osed spoiled dickless. In my time, there was ONE PHONE in the house and you made due! (.end grandpa rant). I think if we want the game to be what we wish it to be, we must first help it be successful instead of bashing it and moving on. Myself, I'm still subscribed to swtor and having a blast. Looking forward to the next update which brings in a new race (Cathar) and some nice dye options for armors.

Plus, Star Wars is Star Wars, swtor makes me feel part of that verse and to me, that's what really counts at the end.

the consumer is always right,,specially in mmos

a good dev will give you almost what you want, without making me unsub

but i agree on the resource aspect,,and that is swtors biggest failure

they started big, and then they lost momentum, while the huge playerbase was exposed to the bugs and glitches

the right way to do it, is to start small, and then grow the game with the player feedback

thats how wow did it

and that is why all the wow killers are failing

 

  superniceguy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

5/05/13 10:40:41 AM#51
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by sethman75
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by simplius

Originally posted by RefMinor A reverse NGE.
yup, hardcore games attract most players, thats common knowledge

 

luckilly, there are no mmos, who have had success, by simplifying gameplay

and now a look at tomorrows bizzaro weather...

swtor need so many changes, that it would be easier and cheaper to make a new game

and use a GOOD and TESTED engine,,most of the changes in the OP cant be done,

because of the engines limitations


 

disagree with this, hardcore games actually don't attract more people, not sure what you are basing that off of but you are definitely wrong.

one only needs to look at wow to come to this conclusion. they copied a hardcore mmo design and simplified it all around and in came the masses.

Agree. Make it too hard and players will flock to something else.

Hardcore has and will always be a minority group

I love how pepople on these forums completely forget thet SWG Pre NGE was bleeding subs at an alarming rate.

Yes, that is correct....your mecca of sandbox games was failing hard...NGE was a last ditch effort to save it. Granted, the NGE made the game a lot worse, but nothing can hide the fact that Pre NGE SWG was going downhill fast. If it came out today, its population would dwindle faster that SWTOR.

SWG was not failing hard or fast. It peaked on Xfire in 2004, no doubnt with the JTL expansion, that is one year after release. It kept a steady amount of players until they started screwing around with the CU and NGE in 2005, but the numbers were not what LA wanted. None of the servers were as dead as SWTOR for years, and there were no server merges until 2009, which was 6 years after launch. SWTOR had server merges within 6 months.

I think if it came out today it would get more population, as at the end it had more features than most MMOs put together. People were mainly put off my the sweeping changes of the CU and NGE.

You are completely rerwiting history....NGE/CU was a direct result of their sub numbers dropping. There is no debating this....NGE was a last ditch effort to save the game, but it incidentially spead up its demise.

 

No, you just misunderstand what I mean

There was no obvious signs of decline with SWG as could be seen with SWTOR. SWG had server merges in 2009, 6 years after release and 3 years after NGE. SWTOR had server merges within 6 months of launch. Like I said it had a steady amount of players - plenty people playing, but LA were just not happy with the numbers, when they saw the success of WOW in 2004. Any decline in SWG, was negligable, and only affected LA (maybe SOE), but not the players. SWTORs decline affected LA/EA/BW and the players, as it dropped so fast, leaving many servers actually dead and no means to transfer, and still does not.

  brinagh75

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 9

5/05/13 12:56:37 PM#52

That's great.  SWG did not fail.  So go play the game then.  Since it didn't fail, it is still running right?  

 

This is the point people are trying to make.   There is no reason to get all defensive.   Unlike most of the posters who are slamming SWTOR, people are not slamming SWG saying it was a bad game it just isn't this game, and not what this game is intended to be.   Some of the suggestions just do not fit in a Themepark setting which is what this game is.   Same as you do not go to McDonalds expecting to get waited at your table.   Yes it is a restauarant, but that is not a feature found in Fast Food, it is a feature of a sit down.   Not saying that one is better than other, they just fit needs.   As far as the debate on game failure, games Fail for multiple reasons.   Some games fail because they were just bad games and noone wanted to play.  Some games fail because the market is oversaturated.   Some games fail because there is a failure of communication between producers and backers.   And some games fail because the management makes a poor decision and closes the game for whatever reasons.   

When a game fails for one of the last 2 reason it is the hardest.   In those instances games may be popular and thriving.  This makes it difficult for the fans to accept that the game they loved failed.    Again just because a game fails does not mean it is a bad game.  It could be a great game, the best game that has ever been around.   In the end it failed to keep running.   They aren't saying it failed to be a good game.   A lot aren't even saying that SWTOR didn't fail.   A lot are agreeing that SWTOR DID fail to meet expectations.  They aren't saying one is better than the other, they are saying that SWTOR is not SWG.   There are people who like SWTOR and there are people that like SWG and that's ok.   Same as there are people who like McDonalds and people who like Applebees.    Just because you like Applebees it doesn't mean that McDonalds should be closed because it does not have the features that Applebees does.   It does not mean that McDonalds should be closed down for not having those features.   Nor does it mean Applebees should be closed either.   People are not saying that SWG should have gone out of business.   They are saying that it DID.  Right or wrong it happened.  

 

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

5/05/13 11:18:07 PM#53

according to the suits, its just like highlander..THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE

so , until they make a wide range mmo, like wow or CoX, a lot of star wars fans

wil be disappointed

 

  reeereee

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 769

5/05/13 11:38:01 PM#54

A)  Death Star in swtor era makes little sense...

 

B) Maybe if the new Star Wars movies are wildly successful they'll make a new mmo in that era to capitalize off the movies.  Hopefully Disney has the bussiness savvy to go with a competent partner rather than EA.  Then again, after all the money swtor will wind up losing they'll prolly stick with single player games rather than risk the mmo minefields.

  User Deleted
5/05/13 11:46:59 PM#55
Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by simplius

Originally posted by RefMinor A reverse NGE.
yup, hardcore games attract most players, thats common knowledge

 

luckilly, there are no mmos, who have had success, by simplifying gameplay

and now a look at tomorrows bizzaro weather...

swtor need so many changes, that it would be easier and cheaper to make a new game

and use a GOOD and TESTED engine,,most of the changes in the OP cant be done,

because of the engines limitations


 

disagree with this, hardcore games actually don't attract more people, not sure what you are basing that off of but you are definitely wrong.

one only needs to look at wow to come to this conclusion. they copied a hardcore mmo design and simplified it all around and in came the masses.

hmm.. i thought they only have lost subs since the simplifying trend begun. i'm not saying WoW was too hardcore in the first place, but certainly they didn't win much by changing their design philosophy.

Only about 1-2 mil. And most of that was probably just due to old age, rather than desire for those players to play hardcore games. Although I do find it amusing when 'vanilla' WoW players think that WoW was somehow hardcore at launch. Yeah no. It never was.

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

5/06/13 4:40:55 AM#56

hardcore?  lol ...no,,but lesser casual, than now

and about age,,lets see, where swtor is in 7-8 years

  superniceguy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

5/06/13 6:13:21 AM#57
Originally posted by brinagh75

That's great.  SWG did not fail.  So go play the game then.  Since it didn't fail, it is still running right?  

 

 

 

 

A MMO shutting down should not always be viewed as failure in any sense. SWG did not fail in any way. It got shut down to make way for SWTOR - read my previous posts for explantion. A  MMO that shut down due to failure would be like the Matrix, which ended up with about 2 servers and both dead. The same for Vanguard, which now only has one server, but SOE do not shut down MMOs easily. LA called the shots with SWG, and put all their eggs in one basket with SWTOR, and lost - BW is now just left with the name and a division within EA, what made Bioware great is no more, the main people have left the company. LA is now no more. I doubt BW and LA would be no more if SWTOR was the success it was - they would be basking in its glory otherwise being proud owners of a MMO that is as popular or more popular as WOW. At least SOE is still ticking and functioning and moving on and learning from their past mistakes and others etc.

SWG can still be played, just not officially. It was so great people put the effort into resurrecting it. I doubt people will do the same with SWTOR when it shuts down.

SWTOR failed from the get go, and is a failed active MMO, because they have no clue what they are doing, and the content that is being put in, was all mentioned a year or so ago, and nothing new since. There is no solid future for the game, but that does not mean it will shut down, just stay active as it is now, for however long, just adding more bits and pieces into the CM with nothing worthwhile or meaningful - basically paying a sub fee to a single player game that does not have monthly fee, but has occasional DLC to pay for.

  LoverNoFighter

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 334

SWG pre cu > all

5/06/13 8:33:34 AM#58
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by brinagh75

That's great.  SWG did not fail.  So go play the game then.  Since it didn't fail, it is still running right?  

 

 

 

 

*snip*

 As a matter of fact, it is.

  Muke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1637

5/06/13 8:48:27 AM#59
Originally posted by Wizardry

Timing has and seems to always be as important as the qaulity of a game.If wqe look at another sci fi spac type game,EVE it does about 1/4 what SWTOR does but has more success.Why?Well Eve was out first.no competition for that market.Gamers tend to be afraid to let go,if they spent months,years building a player in a game,they are not easily letting go.So although SWTOR is a muich better game than Eve,they won't get the players becuase the market share was already scooped by Eve.

You sire, are not that smart.

You can't compare EVE to SWTOR.

You say SWTOR is much better then EVE....some stuff:

EVE has 1 server with 50k players on it at most times, SWTOR has server merges and peaking at 500-1000 tops

EVE is a sandbox, SWTOR is a bad themepark.

EVE is growing, SWTOR is dying

EVE is innovating, SWTOR is copying.

 

I Like Star Wars VERY much, but you comparing the best sandbox to the worst themepark is just raping the whole mmo genre and showing that you have actually no knowledge of these games.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Ice-Queen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2444

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

5/06/13 8:54:08 AM#60

OP, SWTOR needed a lot of things that was brought up in beta by a few that really wanted to see improvements, but ignored by the devs, and fans of Bioware just made it worse by bum kissing them the whole beta pretending the game was the best thing since sliced bread.

Bioware devs had huge egos and ignored tester that brought up problems and design flaws.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
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