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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Need your opinion... AIMed based abilities?

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90 posts found
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

5/03/13 6:20:02 PM#41
Originally posted by redcapp
Please, no reticle targeting system.  It's fine for action games, FPS games, etc.. but I don't want it in an MMORPG.

MJ already stated for sure it will be a tab targetted combat system.. but he wasn't sure on if it would be more hybrid like gw2 or not

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  chaintm

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 977

"Shutting down threads sense 2004"

5/03/13 6:26:01 PM#42
See my comment in ps2 thread why fps is a bad idea, mind you, you get hacks in all games but when you go away from the targeting model is become a client side data mining pethra of information that hackers will use for aim bots and the rest. At least with targeting you end up with everyone on the same playing field. Now mind you there are other hacks (ghosting) which did happen occasionally on daoc but those are little compaired to most any FPS today.

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/03/13 7:01:31 PM#43
The only hack you get in a fps you don't get in a tab Target game is aimbots.

Every other hack, teleporting, invulnerability, hosting through walls, aiming through walls, radars etc..

Exist also In tab target games.

Then you have hacks that work with tab Target that don't work with fps like hacks to reduce the gcd, hacks to queue abilities so they all fire on the same gcd etc..

Hacking Is no more rife in ps2 than it is in several tab Target mmos I've played including gw2, war, wow, rift etc.. especially wow.
  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

5/03/13 7:38:58 PM#44
No gcd in this game bud
But I agree complaining about hacks is pointless
You need to work to avoid people hacking but it will be enviable

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Tumblebutz

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 338

5/03/13 7:51:45 PM#45

This may be overanalyzing things, but if you look at the age breakdown in the Age Poll thread (link below), you'll see nearly 40% of respondants are >35.  I'm wondering if a "more mature" crowd (fancy talk for "old folk") isn't drawn to a more contemplative and strategic gameplay rather than a twitchy and hyperactive gameplay.

Hence, the general lean towards tab/click-targetting rather than aim-to target.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/383680/Poll-CU-Fan-Age.html

Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

RED IS DEAD!

  Taldier

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 249

5/03/13 8:07:56 PM#46

Tab targetting is good for a lot of things, I think theres a place for other forms of targetting mixed in as well though.  I think a lot of fears of other targetting systems can be potentially handled by other factors.

 

Certainly I dont want a super twitchy game either, but if you create the game in a way that just wont have characters darting all over the screen at super speed then "aim based" targetting becomes more about adding choices instead of reflexes and connection speed.

 

I could see aiming being used to arc shots over a line of defenders to hit weaker targets in the rear, or aimed shots to the legs being used to slow opponents.  Perhaps have a line of archers fire indiscriminately over the walls of a castle to keep the enemy pinned down behind cover.

 

Lots of potential options there when you arent just limited to hitting targets in a straight line (arrows dont fly in straight lines).

  Canan

Novice Member

Joined: 4/21/10
Posts: 90

5/03/13 8:41:04 PM#47
Please no aim anything (unless your an archer). 
  Gyrus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/20/07
Posts: 2318

5/03/13 9:09:56 PM#48

As I understand it - if you have reticlule or "AIMed" targeting... dosen't your game engine then have to track projectiles?

Now I know this is possible - but doesn't it add a whole new level of complexity?

 

Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.

  mhoward48

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/07
Posts: 94

5/04/13 12:57:52 AM#49
Myself, I do not care for any reticle-targeting. I am kind of open to anything else.

http://s36.photobucket.com/user/mhoward48/media/OnwYv97.jpg.html

  Ncrediblebulk

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/08
Posts: 137

"Bulk Smash, Baby! Bulk Smash!"

5/04/13 2:07:40 AM#50
I feel a tab targeting system paired with LoL/DotA system skill shots would be a great hybrid system. It requires some skill when in combat but doesn't require a player to have ultimate twitch abilites to be effective. Ultimately this game is a PvP game. Players skill needs to be the focus of who wins or loses not who had bigger numbers while locked on via tab target. We know they are not planning on having GCD or "1-2-1-3-1-2-etc." ability rotation combat style. Just having tab targeting in my opinion is just too much hand holding in a PvP game. Just like /face or /stick. At a basic level with tab targeting, /face, and /stick you are letting a computer play for you.

"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth."

  meddyck

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1130

5/04/13 5:59:38 AM#51
Originally posted by waynejr2
I won't be playing an archer so YES let's have aim based archery!

Ok but the class that you do play should have to manually enter the longitude, lattitude, and height of its attacks.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  Ellya

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 99

5/04/13 6:20:30 AM#52
I'd be quite happy to see aim based targetting for enemies and tab targetting for allies.  That way you eliminate easy mode fighting, but you can still find your healer  or leader in a crowd :)
  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

5/04/13 6:24:33 AM#53
Originally posted by colddog04

It seems like a lot of people, when considering the use of aimed shots, are thinking that it's going to be overly difficult to hit your target in a PvP situation becasue the enemy is going to be moving around a lot. I don't think the most effective way of using something like this would work that way very often.

 

The way I would use my uber-powerful aimed shot would be to work in conjunction with another player that has a strong root, stick a guy in a spot and unload whatever it is I have with a really simple aimed shot that anyone and their grandparents can pull off.

 

This leads to a question of balance. If you are going to give a class an uber-powerful aimed shot and well coordinated teams can use roots effectively, this idea becomes extremely difficult to balance. 

I agree. On the surface it sounds like a good idea but that would not only relegate an archer to a secondary class char that NEEDs to have someone else in order to be effective, it also adds the fun root > die chain for good measure. Not only am i going to be rooted and unable to move, but now there is a uber-powerful aimed shot incoming i can't evade because i can't move.

Im sorry but for me that sounds suspiciously like combining all the annoying things of CC and one hit kill movies into one neat package. Im sure thats going to be fun to the archer and his buddy/team, but it doesn't sound all that fun to the one on the receiving end A totally gimped solo(a scoutclass requirering a group would be a little strange) where he can't hit targets while at the same time op in groups where people hold stuff down for him.

Its ... just not how i envision the game.

If you really need aim based anything, i'd guess it makes sense for siege engines. For an archer in a fastpaced RvR game, with again 100s of people on the screen fighting back and forth i just don't see it for weapons without major splashdamage. Even most shooters only make it work with either instant travel projectiles or rockets or stuff. Playing Battlefield with bows ... i don't think it would be fun even if you like shooters.

  Ellya

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 99

5/04/13 6:26:52 AM#54
Hmm, how about a lock-on system, where you have to aim, but once you have your target you can lock on to it? That could be the compromise between aim and tab?
  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

5/04/13 6:27:52 AM#55
Originally posted by Teh_Axi
Originally posted by Tumblebutz

This may be overanalyzing things, but if you look at the age breakdown in the Age Poll thread (link below), you'll see nearly 40% of respondants are >35. 

[mod edit]

We'll since apparently they are the ones paying for the development of the game ... i'd say they get it their way.

Only fair, if you want a twitch based shooter MMO go and back one on KS. But taking the money of DaoC players and then making a game from it they can't stand ... thats not exactly nice.

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

5/04/13 6:36:45 AM#56
Originally posted by Ellya
Hmm, how about a lock-on system, where you have to aim, but once you have your target you can lock on to it? That could be the compromise between aim and tab?

Just imho, but compromises hurt games. Whats next, should we add some PvE instances and raids as a compromise for those who don't want to pvp? Where do we stop with the compromises? When you are satisfied? When everyone is satisfied?

Personally i'd say we go all in, RvR like camelot, crafting like minecraft(light), fluidity of combat like WoW(many MMOs still fail at this) and controls like your standard MMO with tab based targeting(like warhammer, friend and foe at same) and lots of hotbars. Success will be determined through picking the right skill in the right situation, positionals and use of reactives as well as planning through your fight(i do this, then that, and then hopeflly he will ...).

Now don't get me wrong, im fully in favour of adding a aimbased class in an later expansion or something if there is a demand. But we should first get the basics down, which are imho the ones above. Once the basics are down and working well, sure why not we can add all kinds of exciting stuff. But lets not try to dance on two different balls at a time.

  Teh_Axi

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 404

5/04/13 6:50:05 AM#57
Originally posted by Rocketeer

We'll since apparently they are the ones paying for the development of the game ... i'd say they get it their way.

Yeah because they are the only people who where allowed to back the Kickstarter. The fact is trying to please DAoC diehards is the worst thing for CU, as they say "You can't teach an old dog new tricks".

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

5/04/13 8:07:06 AM#58
Originally posted by Teh_Axi
Originally posted by Rocketeer

We'll since apparently they are the ones paying for the development of the game ... i'd say they get it their way.

Yeah because they are the only people who where allowed to back the Kickstarter. The fact is trying to please DAoC diehards is the worst thing for CU, as they say "You can't teach an old dog new tricks".

Its not about who was allowed to back it, but about those who actually did. Ofc not everyone of those was a DaoC fan, i for one was not. But i agreed with the principle ideas of a DoaC like game without PvE. I think many others who backed the game felt similar, furthermore there was no indication this would be completely different kind of a game compared to DaoC sans the no pve part.

What im trying to say is, if you backed this game based on the available information(especially on the kickstarter itself) then you have no reason to complain if we get a DaoC clone with much better crafting, modern graphics and more sandbox features like player built towns and keeps etc. The rest, like 3 factions, non mirrored classes etc ... that kinda reminds me a bit of DaoC, atleast as far as i remember it.

  ragz45

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 482

5/04/13 10:31:46 AM#59
If it's like tera, I would be semi ok with it.  If it's like darkfall or darkfall unholy wars.  I won't even play it even though I backed the bame.  Frigging hate the combat in DF / DF:UW.

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

5/04/13 11:02:22 AM#60
Originally posted by Teh_Axi
Originally posted by Rocketeer

What im trying to say is, if you backed this game based on the available information(especially on the kickstarter itself) then you have no reason to complain if we get a DaoC clone with much better crafting, modern graphics and more sandbox features like player built towns and keeps etc.

[mod edit]

Yeah they said its not DAoC 2, that doesn't mean any kind of stupid mechanic is fair game, might aswell have helicopters as mounts and make it turnbased? Cause its not DAoC 2 right?

Come on, its more than just the skeleton. How many RvR games with 3 sides and non mirrored classes that are based on arthurian legends are there? I mean sure, we could pretend it will be a completely novel game bearing no resemblance to any game ever made, like maybe by the same person. Sure we could tell us that, but who would we be kidding? Also DAoC is owned by EA, so obviously CU will not be DAoC 2 because thats a lawsuit waiting to happen.

And yes, DAoC players that backed the game are more important than non DAoC that did not back the game. If your a backer we should renew this discussion on the founders forums once they open, but i don't see the point in discussing game mechanics or direction at this point in time with people who as likely as not didn't even back the game.

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