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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Are we old farts a dying breed?

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359 posts found
  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

4/30/13 9:44:53 PM#81
Originally posted by Robokapp

Axe, your definition of fun is not universal. 

without being fully serious but since I feel the below statement is relevant...

I like mining in EVE, your argument is invalid. 

politely put, if you tell a consumer "games should be about fun" he'll probably say "that's too general, what are you selling again?". 

Let me tell you about a genuinely fun moment I ha in world of warcraft. early in tier 13, (first week of hardmodes) we reach heroic yor'sahj. As we do the first pulls, just to see what's up and we begin to grasp the size of the challenge ahead, there is LAUGHTER in mumble. Literarly people laughing. The ammount of damage that happened if we didn't hit a benchmark or screwed up a position was extremely high. 

people...were getting hopelessly killed...and laughing about it. 

after many attempts we had several sub 1% pulls the night before the nerf, then we 2-shot it post nerf. that's a sad story. But that's not what I'm trying here to say. 

"fun"... can come in the form of being amused by how big of a challenge is ahead of you. Fun can come from overcoming it...or fun can come from how easy something was. Don't assume your fun is the only fun. 

edit: very very old video, but same concept protrayed here. They're having fun. Nothing to debate about that. maybe if it happens over and over they won't but for now they sure are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByXS73L38Ic

I'm not describing easy vs. hard.  I'm describing gameplay vs. non-gameplay.  Interesting games vs. wastes of time.

Imagine if the Lord of the Rings movies were filmed completely in real-time.  From Shire to Shire, the trilogy would take literally over a year of continuous watching. All the walking.  All the riding.  All the bathroom breaks. All the sleeping.

It would be a colossal waste of time.

It wouid be a colossal waste of time in any medium.  ("Damn, why aren't people enjoying my book?  Do you think it has something to do with Chapter 59: The Fellowship Sleeps?  Or maybe Chapter 295: The Fellowship Sleeps Yet Again?" -Alternate-Dimension JRR Tolkien)

And it would be a colossal waste of time in MMORPG form.

People aren't very tolerant of having their time wasted.  They tend to want their entertainment to entertain.

  c0exist

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 187

4/30/13 9:51:00 PM#82
I think what he was saying that "entertaining" is all relative.  For instance, if I told you that you had to kill the same mob 100 times and then you would die and lose all the exp that you had gained in those kills would you call that experience entertaining?  Im certain you would say no, but to me and a few others on here we would.  A waste of time to some, not to others.
  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2459

World > Quest Progression

4/30/13 9:56:44 PM#83
For me MMOs are more entertaining if I'm doing things with other people, and honestly killing 100 of something is less of a waste of time than questing with others. If I want a good story I can so myself I can read a book, watch a movie or play a SP game. Entertainment is in the eye of the beholder and on a long sliding scale.
  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4844

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/30/13 9:58:18 PM#84
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Robokapp

Axe, your definition of fun is not universal. 

without being fully serious but since I feel the below statement is relevant...

I like mining in EVE, your argument is invalid. 

politely put, if you tell a consumer "games should be about fun" he'll probably say "that's too general, what are you selling again?". 

Let me tell you about a genuinely fun moment I ha in world of warcraft. early in tier 13, (first week of hardmodes) we reach heroic yor'sahj. As we do the first pulls, just to see what's up and we begin to grasp the size of the challenge ahead, there is LAUGHTER in mumble. Literarly people laughing. The ammount of damage that happened if we didn't hit a benchmark or screwed up a position was extremely high. 

people...were getting hopelessly killed...and laughing about it. 

after many attempts we had several sub 1% pulls the night before the nerf, then we 2-shot it post nerf. that's a sad story. But that's not what I'm trying here to say. 

"fun"... can come in the form of being amused by how big of a challenge is ahead of you. Fun can come from overcoming it...or fun can come from how easy something was. Don't assume your fun is the only fun. 

edit: very very old video, but same concept protrayed here. They're having fun. Nothing to debate about that. maybe if it happens over and over they won't but for now they sure are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByXS73L38Ic

I'm not describing easy vs. hard.  I'm describing gameplay vs. non-gameplay.  Interesting games vs. wastes of time.

Imagine if the Lord of the Rings movies were filmed completely in real-time.  From Shire to Shire, the trilogy would take literally over a year of continuous watching. All the walking.  All the riding.  All the bathroom breaks. All the sleeping.

It would be a colossal waste of time.

It wouid be a colossal waste of time in any medium.  ("Damn, why aren't people enjoying my book?  Do you think it has something to do with Chapter 59: The Fellowship Sleeps?  Or maybe Chapter 295: The Fellowship Sleeps Yet Again?" -Alternate-Dimension JRR Tolkien)

And it would be a colossal waste of time in MMORPG form.

People aren't very tolerant of having their time wasted.  They tend to want their entertainment to entertain.

 I actually found the books pretty dull and long winded as they were :)

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Jockan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 4168

4/30/13 10:14:22 PM#85
Originally posted by GreenHell

This thread is simply not for people like you. I could give a damn if I ever reach level cap in a mmo. That will never be the reason why I play a mmo. I simply want a mmo that I have fun playing everday and keeps me coming back for more.

What is a person like me? I also want a MMO that I enjoy playing everyday. I just prefer a sandbox end game over an endless grind for xp. Why should it take a year of killing the same damn things over and over again for me to hit max level? How is that fun at all? I would rather reach the part of the game where I play it the way I want to with out having to even think about XP.

 

 

 

I am not saying you should play a game where you are doing things everyday that you dont enjoy. What I am saying is that if you play a game and ENJOY doing what ever it is that you do in that game everday then you should not care how long it takes you to get max level. I swear I have never played a mmo in my life with the goal of hitting max level. It has always been about that journey. We all want sandbox gameplay because you cant make a real mmo without it. The question is why developers dont see it. The OP is just like us, we all just want a real mmo to play.

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4699

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/30/13 11:26:07 PM#86
Originally posted by Aelious
For me MMOs are more entertaining if I'm doing things with other people, and honestly killing 100 of something is less of a waste of time than questing with others. If I want a good story I can so myself I can read a book, watch a movie or play a SP game. Entertainment is in the eye of the beholder and on a long sliding scale.

I just spent maybe 12 hours flipping a (grav site) belt in eve. this means mining everything, including the stuff you don't really need.

 

now here's the kicker...why would me and my corp do that ? SO IT RESPAWNS FASTER.

 

seems like a monumental waste of time until...you get ot the social aspect. Then it becomes a social event in which you also do some mining. and I had fun while also doing some mining. :)

 

but then again these days i'm not into 24/7 butchering something anymore...I kinda outgrew it and am more into gathering/building stuff...

 

p.s. if you watched my link, dare tell me that didn't make you smile for a second :D

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

5/01/13 2:02:28 AM#87
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 I actually found the books pretty dull and long winded as they were :)

Agreed, although I try to tiptoe around trailblazers like Tolkien and Gygax.  It's hard to fairly/truthfully criticize their works while simultaneously giving them the credit they deserve for blazing the trail (and being responsible for the core of so much of the entertainment I've loved over the years.)

  faxnadu

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/08
Posts: 955

5/01/13 2:13:12 AM#88
Originally posted by Normandy7
Agreed. The younger generation wants the instant gratification instead of earning it. They think it is called grind when you don't accomplish something within 2 hours. MMOs are about the journey to the destination and if it takes me over a year to reach that then so be it. Atleast I know my money was well spent. Today it is about paying to be super powerful and clear the game in a weekend. Pretty pathetic!

that is excatly the point. challenge is removed cause it greates wall between fun and accomplishment. feels like youth today want all in same bowl mixed and to be drink instantly. wich also means they grow bored on the game after 1st week and then nag on forums how bad game it is WE WANT MORE WE WANT MORE! new shiny things to be thrown in the same mixture bowl to be repeated its formula.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3737

RIP City of Heroes!

5/01/13 2:22:43 AM#89
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 I actually found the books pretty dull and long winded as they were :)

Agreed, although I try to tiptoe around trailblazers like Tolkien and Gygax.  It's hard to fairly/truthfully criticize their works while simultaneously giving them the credit they deserve for blazing the trail (and being responsible for the core of so much of the entertainment I've loved over the years.)

 I don't consider Tolkien a trailblazer.  Let me be generous, he borrowed a lot.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

5/01/13 2:42:05 AM#90
Originally posted by waynejr2

 I don't consider Tolkien a trailblazer.  Let me be generous, he borrowed a lot.

Sure, but WOW and The Bible are also derivative works, yet they were clearly also trailblazers.

  TheHavok

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2428

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

5/01/13 2:45:49 AM#91
  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

5/01/13 2:55:40 AM#92
Originally posted by Torgrim

We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.

Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released.

And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing.

Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?

Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.

Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.

So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

 

Younger generation also leave when ever they want and you fail a dungeon run or in rts game your match becouse of this leave attitude without saying anything bah:(...they also say nothing or just curse swear and get crazy when you even make a small mistake or dont do what they want lol not to mention the names many have so immature:(.

I quit multiplayer back to solo and occasional co-op game with friends thats it.

I realy tried playing Age of Empires II HD on steam man the gamers these days behavior are even worse then i thought no social skills or any normal behavior i quit that also.

Im prolly to old for this baheavior ill stick to solo then.

Back to skyrim /wave

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5263

5/01/13 2:58:04 AM#93
Old farts just get replaced by new farts. Unfortunately the new ones all smell the same and don't last as long.
  Cephus404

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

5/01/13 3:09:52 AM#94
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram

You mean just like you entering every thread based on old school or older players and berrating them won't?

I, like many others, are just pointing out the reality of the situation.  It's not my fault that you'd rather live in a fantasy world.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  lolunatic

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/09
Posts: 113

5/01/13 3:10:27 AM#95
doh thats why your OLD
  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5576

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

5/01/13 3:11:25 AM#96
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Axehilt
 

 I actually found the books pretty dull and long winded as they were :)

Me too. I don't understand why some people worship Tolkien.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3019

I actually still like MMORPGs

5/01/13 3:12:54 AM#97
If you are, you're not dying fast enough. I've been listening to this bitching and moaning since 2005.

  Cephus404

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

5/01/13 3:13:29 AM#98
Originally posted by Robokapp

what if the reality is I want to whine ?

There's a mature way to do things and an immature way.  I'm sorry you've chosen the wrong one.  Part of the basic maturation process is coming to grips with reality as it actually is, not with how you wish it was.

Now I can certainly understand that you wish things were different and that's fine, but to spend all your time complaining about it instead of just getting on with your life and going out to find something that you actually do enjoy is extremely childish.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

5/01/13 3:14:31 AM#99
Originally posted by Scot
Old farts just get replaced by new farts. Unfortunately the new ones all smell the same and don't last as long.

(Which is sometimes a relief, when you're trapped in an elevator with either.)

The op's basic question: Is elitism and an innate belief in our personal superiority over tihe 'masses' ever dying out?

Of course it isn't. No qualifications (except ego) for the position exist and all applicants are self-selected.

There's some potential for Country Club Greens Fees Exclusive Access Pricing being missed by MMO producers, though.

 

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  shalissar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/04/10
Posts: 164

5/01/13 3:16:08 AM#100
Originally posted by rodingo

Some of us old farts don't get hung up on what's considered "instant gratification", "hardcore", "casual".  Some of us just play games if they are fun.  Isn't that what games are meant for anyways?  I always get a kick out of people trying to segregate different playstyles and genres as if theirs is superior.   Some of you guys can continue to build walls around yourselves crying about how the good old days are long gone or how certain groups are ruining gaming.  The rest of us just shrug and move on.  If you can't find one game out of all what's on the market today that you find fun, then maybe it's time you pick another hobby.

This to an extent. I do have some issue with how gamer attitudes are nowadays but I can't really blame it on changes in their games. I don't know if it's that or a larger cultural/generation issue. What I do know is that the endless griping and pining is getting tiresome and it could all just boil down to a simple case of nostalgia goggles.

Yeah, those who are crying about the good old days are actually a dying breed. That's why there's so much complaining, not enough games tailored to their needs anymore. Everything's casual and easy. The game companies are edging towards this for a reason, and it isn't to piss people off, it's because that's where the money is: Casual players.

 

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