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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Are we old farts a dying breed?

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359 posts found
  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1977

May the game be ever in your favor.

4/30/13 9:33:34 PM#61
Originally posted by Torgrim

We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.

Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released.

And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing.

Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?

Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.

Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.

So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

 

Maybe because the younger generation simply just doesn't have the time for the kind of MMO you want. I would love a great sandbox MMO that gave me more of a feeling of accomplishment than a lot of the current themeparks, but I don't want it to the extreme that a lot of hardcore vetrans want. I just don't have the time for a system where it takes months and months to get your character to the cap just to start the endgame content.

Smile

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3203

4/30/13 9:34:36 PM#62
Originally posted by GreenHell

This thread is simply not for people like you. I could give a damn if I ever reach level cap in a mmo. That will never be the reason why I play a mmo. I simply want a mmo that I have fun playing everday and keeps me coming back for more.

What is a person like me? I also want a MMO that I enjoy playing everyday. I just prefer a sandbox end game over an endless grind for xp. Why should it take a year of killing the same damn things over and over again for me to hit max level? How is that fun at all? I would rather reach the part of the game where I play it the way I want to with out having to even think about XP.

I'm not suggesting there's no place for MMOs like WoW or Rift (heck I play Rift currently),  I'm just saying that MMOs have become so watered down, they're not really MMOs anymore.  MMO players are upset about that is all.  Some people want to get to max level in 2 hours, then spend the next hour running the same content over and over.  There's nothing wrong with that. There's just some people that don't want that.  

 

We'd rather play older MMOs where it was all about the journey, not the destination.  We'd rather play an MMO when you hit level 10, and told your friends and guildmates, it was like a party for the achievement.  We'd rather play an MMO that had alot of inconvience built in, having to run to dungeons, having to find people to group up with, having to go craft for days just for a single level.  I don't find any of that stuff fun either, until it's completed.  Then it's alot more fun at once, instead of a little bit of fun all the time.  

 

This is where newer MMOs go wrong, imho.  They want to make it fun all the time.  The problem with that is fun gets boring when all you get is fun.  If make it like a rollercoaster where you have cursing-throwing-hissy fits, then the next minute you're running around your house screaming in joyous accomplishment, to me that's more enjoyment.

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

4/30/13 9:36:37 PM#63
Originally posted by Robokapp

the 'instant gratification' crowd will pass.

 

it'll either grow up or fail to function enough to afford a non - F2P mmo. 

 

it's just a phase. because mmo development is slow, phases last longer. but it's already coming to a close, if you notice, most newere announcements are smaller, sandboxier MMOs. 

Everything is a phase. There will never be a time again that the MMO genre will be exclusively for the hardcore. The casuals are here to stay. It will only be a matter of which will dominate the other at any given period of time.

  ClaudeSuamOram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 134

4/30/13 9:36:57 PM#64
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Torgrim

So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

 

"instant gratification generation"?

Just join them. We are talking about entertainment here ... nothing wrong with some fast fun. Personally, i am not going back to the days where playing a MMO means "waiting, waiting, and more waiting" as gameplay. If you want to call that "instant gratification" .. then i will fully embrace it.

There is a shocking revelation.

For MMO I agree, for MMORPG I do not however.

  c0exist

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 189

4/30/13 9:43:34 PM#65
You can see the difference in play styles by the different comments posted.  Leveling is and should always be the focal point of an mmo in my opinion.  If the leveling is easy then why have it?  Why not start everyone at max level at launch or have no levels at all where at first log in you have max stats.  I for one like to work for my levels and my stats.  Again not knocking anyones playstyles, but fast leveling is like putting in a cheat code that gives you access to the end of the game or better yet remember the game genie for nes?  All you have at endgame is a bunch of people who have not mastered their class because they got to max in a few hours of gameplay.
  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/30/13 9:43:39 PM#66
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Torgrim

So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

 

"instant gratification generation"?

Just join them. We are talking about entertainment here ... nothing wrong with some fast fun. Personally, i am not going back to the days where playing a MMO means "waiting, waiting, and more waiting" as gameplay. If you want to call that "instant gratification" .. then i will fully embrace it.

There is a shocking revelation.

For MMO I agree, for MMORPG I do not however.

Why is it shocking? The term has negative connotation because it sounds bad. The root is that we are talking about entertainment. So people want product that is entertaining from the start, and all the time. Why is that surprising?

We are not talking about work here. We are not talking about real achievement here. At best, we are talking about the ILLUSION of achievement here. So what if the devs give it to their customers fast, as long as they make enough money.

 

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4766

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/30/13 9:44:15 PM#67
Originally posted by KhinRunite
Originally posted by Robokapp

the 'instant gratification' crowd will pass.

 

it'll either grow up or fail to function enough to afford a non - F2P mmo. 

 

it's just a phase. because mmo development is slow, phases last longer. but it's already coming to a close, if you notice, most newere announcements are smaller, sandboxier MMOs. 

Everything is a phase. There will never be a time again that the MMO genre will be exclusively for the hardcore. The casuals are here to stay. It will only be a matter of which will dominate the other at any given period of time.

we don't want the whole genre...nor have I ever seen such a claim.

 

in fact we like the GM's signifficant other who organizes the guild bank while we're fighting dragons. And the guy who doesn't know crap but is willing to learn ? we like him too. It's the guy trying to bend the world to his will that we can't stand. If he was an amazing player maybe we'd see things differently out of respect but...

 

Let me give you a quick preview into the hardcore mentality. No matter what you lost, and how bad your situation is, show respect and admit your defeat. Same with victories. The second you display the "I have a life" card after getting killed...all we saw from you was in-game and all we saw from you was failure. You're not going to convince us that your failure is a sign of success. We'll assume from you...more failure.

 

play with honor and dignity regardless of outcome. ype "good fight" even if it was you vs 50...and it wasnt a good fight at all. your stuff's not coming back no matter how rude you are. If you show us tears we'll keep poking. you've just turned yourself into the entertainment. And you just told us where the pokes hurt the most.  

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/30/13 9:44:54 PM#68
Originally posted by c0exist
You can see the difference in play styles by the different comments posted.  Leveling is and should always be the focal point of an mmo in my opinion.  If the leveling is easy then why have it?  Why not start everyone at max level at launch or have no levels at all where at first log in you have max stats.  I for one like to work for my levels and my stats.  Again not knocking anyones playstyles, but fast leveling is like putting in a cheat code that gives you access to the end of the game or better yet remember the game genie for nes?  All you have at endgame is a bunch of people who have not mastered their class because they got to max in a few hours of gameplay.

To provide the illusion of achievement.  Why else?

  Comaf

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1142

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

4/30/13 9:45:13 PM#69
Originally posted by Torgrim

We who enjoyed MMO that took time to play, accomplish ingame really matters, crafters had names, dungeons were hard, even get a level were a accomplish in it self, everything we did back then really matters and it really felt good.

Now you play MMOs atleast western ones on autopilot, you don't really need a guild, you dont really need friends, everything is layed out for you to play from A to B solo, even the dungeons and raids gets on farm mode within a week it gets released.

And the sad part for me is that the younger generation seems to enjoy this, instant gratification crowd no wonder game studios seems to make clones left and right when it sells so good............for a month.........then they return on this board and the sead game board and whine there is nothing to do at endgame and wait for the next big thing.

Some of you might know me from GW2 forums and thinks hey you talking about yourself why on earth are you even making a thread like this when you play GW2?

Why I play GW2 is not because it's easy or hard I play it because Anet broke the WoW mold simple as that, I can finally play a game were I'm free to do what I want, and yes I would love this game to be less solo friendly and more hardcore.

Just wanted to say that for you guys who love to make a post history.

So are we old farts ever going back to the old days with some modifications or are we stuck with instant gratification generation and pray for some indi company who has money to do it right?

 

Hence Camelot Unchained.  I'll give ESO a go as well - meanwhile I'm playing DAoC on a particular freeshard - Mods here told me I'm not allowed to say the name, however.

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/30/13 9:46:31 PM#70
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram

 

Over your head, as most things are.

And yet i am the one who is having fun, and you are the one who is sad ranting about how you hate modern MMOs.

  ClaudeSuamOram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 134

4/30/13 9:49:19 PM#71
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram

 

Over your head, as most things are.

And yet i am the one who is having fun, and you are the one who is sad ranting about how you hate modern MMOs.

Having fun doing what exactly? Other than posting nonsense here with 10K+ in posts.

 

I am playing Allods Online, Spec Ops:The Line, Skyrim, Cities XL, amongst other games at will.

 

And get it right. There is a difference between MMO and MMORPG.

 

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4766

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/30/13 9:50:18 PM#72
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by c0exist
You can see the difference in play styles by the different comments posted.  Leveling is and should always be the focal point of an mmo in my opinion.  If the leveling is easy then why have it?  Why not start everyone at max level at launch or have no levels at all where at first log in you have max stats.  I for one like to work for my levels and my stats.  Again not knocking anyones playstyles, but fast leveling is like putting in a cheat code that gives you access to the end of the game or better yet remember the game genie for nes?  All you have at endgame is a bunch of people who have not mastered their class because they got to max in a few hours of gameplay.

To provide the illusion of achievement.  Why else?

even in a fantasy setting, 'achievement' and 'easy' are conflicting concepts.

 

an 'easy achievement' is a very tricky concept. it's in the same league with "I'm the best noob there is. I am the pride of the Plastic League.".

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/30/13 9:51:50 PM#73
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram

 

Over your head, as most things are.

And yet i am the one who is having fun, and you are the one who is sad ranting about how you hate modern MMOs.

Having fun doing what exactly? Other than posting nonsense here with 10K+ in posts.

 

I am playing Allods Online, Spec Ops:The Line, Skyrim, Cities XL, amongst other games at will.

 

And get it right. There is a difference between MMO and MMORPG.

 

Having fun playing modern MMOs, and watching you sadly ranting about MMORPGs you don't like, instead of playing Spec Ops.

And i thought you were against F2P. How is Allods online treating you?

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/30/13 9:53:20 PM#74
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by c0exist
You can see the difference in play styles by the different comments posted.  Leveling is and should always be the focal point of an mmo in my opinion.  If the leveling is easy then why have it?  Why not start everyone at max level at launch or have no levels at all where at first log in you have max stats.  I for one like to work for my levels and my stats.  Again not knocking anyones playstyles, but fast leveling is like putting in a cheat code that gives you access to the end of the game or better yet remember the game genie for nes?  All you have at endgame is a bunch of people who have not mastered their class because they got to max in a few hours of gameplay.

To provide the illusion of achievement.  Why else?

even in a fantasy setting, 'achievement' and 'easy' are conflicting concepts.

 

an 'easy achievement' is a very tricky concept. it's in the same league with "I'm the best noob there is. I am the pride of the Plastic League.".

Don't sound like there is real work in playing a game. Achievments in electronic entertainment are all illusions. They are basically psychological candies given out by the devs to keep customers happy.

 

  Ppiper

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/08/13
Posts: 663

4/30/13 9:56:14 PM#75
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by c0exist
You can see the difference in play styles by the different comments posted.  Leveling is and should always be the focal point of an mmo in my opinion.  If the leveling is easy then why have it?  Why not start everyone at max level at launch or have no levels at all where at first log in you have max stats.  I for one like to work for my levels and my stats.  Again not knocking anyones playstyles, but fast leveling is like putting in a cheat code that gives you access to the end of the game or better yet remember the game genie for nes?  All you have at endgame is a bunch of people who have not mastered their class because they got to max in a few hours of gameplay.

To provide the illusion of achievement.  Why else?

even in a fantasy setting, 'achievement' and 'easy' are conflicting concepts.

 

an 'easy achievement' is a very tricky concept. it's in the same league with "I'm the best noob there is. I am the pride of the Plastic League.".

Don't sound like there is real work in playing a game. Achievments in electronic entertainment are all illusions. They are basically psychological candies given out by the devs to keep customers happy.

 

but isn't that what we want? We're all lab rats.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4766

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/30/13 9:58:32 PM#76
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by c0exist
You can see the difference in play styles by the different comments posted.  Leveling is and should always be the focal point of an mmo in my opinion.  If the leveling is easy then why have it?  Why not start everyone at max level at launch or have no levels at all where at first log in you have max stats.  I for one like to work for my levels and my stats.  Again not knocking anyones playstyles, but fast leveling is like putting in a cheat code that gives you access to the end of the game or better yet remember the game genie for nes?  All you have at endgame is a bunch of people who have not mastered their class because they got to max in a few hours of gameplay.

To provide the illusion of achievement.  Why else?

even in a fantasy setting, 'achievement' and 'easy' are conflicting concepts.

 

an 'easy achievement' is a very tricky concept. it's in the same league with "I'm the best noob there is. I am the pride of the Plastic League.".

Don't sound like there is real work in playing a game. Achievments in electronic entertainment are all illusions. They are basically psychological candies given out by the devs to keep customers happy.

 

I agree. I'm just questioning the word "achievement".

 

hitting 18 million final score at pinball felt like an achievement. It took no real work but it took other things such as rapid decision-making, calm under anxiety and concentration.

 

"work" is what you do in a factory. yet I wouldn't call "sewing 5,000 car seat covers" an achievement either. It's more of a milestone. Sewing the first one corectly might be an achievement though. If it was difficult to learn how to do it. You've just achieved what previously you could not.

 

without "what previously you could not" part, you can't have the "achieve" part. they go hand in hand.

  nariusseldon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/30/13 9:59:24 PM#77
Originally posted by Ppiper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by c0exist
You can see the difference in play styles by the different comments posted.  Leveling is and should always be the focal point of an mmo in my opinion.  If the leveling is easy then why have it?  Why not start everyone at max level at launch or have no levels at all where at first log in you have max stats.  I for one like to work for my levels and my stats.  Again not knocking anyones playstyles, but fast leveling is like putting in a cheat code that gives you access to the end of the game or better yet remember the game genie for nes?  All you have at endgame is a bunch of people who have not mastered their class because they got to max in a few hours of gameplay.

To provide the illusion of achievement.  Why else?

even in a fantasy setting, 'achievement' and 'easy' are conflicting concepts.

 

an 'easy achievement' is a very tricky concept. it's in the same league with "I'm the best noob there is. I am the pride of the Plastic League.".

Don't sound like there is real work in playing a game. Achievments in electronic entertainment are all illusions. They are basically psychological candies given out by the devs to keep customers happy.

 

but isn't that what we want? We're all lab rats.

Yes .. of course. We are lab rats with wallets.

  Ppiper

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/08/13
Posts: 663

4/30/13 10:03:39 PM#78
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Ppiper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by c0exist
You can see the difference in play styles by the different comments posted.  Leveling is and should always be the focal point of an mmo in my opinion.  If the leveling is easy then why have it?  Why not start everyone at max level at launch or have no levels at all where at first log in you have max stats.  I for one like to work for my levels and my stats.  Again not knocking anyones playstyles, but fast leveling is like putting in a cheat code that gives you access to the end of the game or better yet remember the game genie for nes?  All you have at endgame is a bunch of people who have not mastered their class because they got to max in a few hours of gameplay.

To provide the illusion of achievement.  Why else?

even in a fantasy setting, 'achievement' and 'easy' are conflicting concepts.

 

an 'easy achievement' is a very tricky concept. it's in the same league with "I'm the best noob there is. I am the pride of the Plastic League.".

Don't sound like there is real work in playing a game. Achievments in electronic entertainment are all illusions. They are basically psychological candies given out by the devs to keep customers happy.

 

but isn't that what we want? We're all lab rats.

Yes .. of course. We are lab rats with wallets.

I still rue the day I chose a DE Necromancer in EQ1 only to realize I had to hide and sneak my way everywhere. 

  c0exist

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 189

4/30/13 10:04:05 PM#79

Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram

Having fun doing what exactly? Other than posting nonsense here with 10K+ in posts.

lol I am sorry but this is hilarious.  Grinding 10000 mobs or typing 10000 posts? which would you rather do?

 

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Don't sound like there is real work in playing a game. Achievments in electronic entertainment are all illusions. They are basically psychological candies given out by the devs to keep customers happy.

psychological candies like the number of posts we have or stars next to our names.  

 

 

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1837

4/30/13 10:16:57 PM#80

Some of us old farts don't get hung up on what's considered "instant gratification", "hardcore", "casual".  Some of us just play games if they are fun.  Isn't that what games are meant for anyways?  I always get a kick out of people trying to segregate different playstyles and genres as if theirs is superior.   Some of you guys can continue to build walls around yourselves crying about how the good old days are long gone or how certain groups are ruining gaming.  The rest of us just shrug and move on.  If you can't find one game out of all what's on the market today that you find fun, then maybe it's time you pick another hobby.

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

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