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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Are we old farts a dying breed?

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359 posts found
  c0exist

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 187

4/30/13 5:57:05 PM#21
Originally posted by Gravarg

I had a thread about this several months back (that's where I got my spotlight poster title weee lol), and I said back then that the instant gratification ruins the MMO experience.

 

If you like the following you might be a MMO player:

- Going into a forest or mine for hours to gather materials for crafting.

- Sitting at a workstation for hours turning wood and ore into something you can use.

- Sitting somewhere crafting for hours on end, just to get 1/4 of a level in a craft.

- Takes a year or more to get to the level cap.

- Killing so many "insert monster here" that people make comics and jokes about it...yet still you didn't level up.

- Grouping up to take on higher level enemies for bonus experience.

- Grouping up just to survive the trip to the next town.

- Grouping just for the sake of playing with friends, even if you could do it yourself.

- Death penalties that actually hurt.  Loss of experience and/or lots of resources...or even your gear.

- Having to go to a wiki or guide site to print out a map of the game world, because you're lost all the time.

 

Very well put, that should be in all games terms and conditions.  If you do not like at least seven of these things dont even bother.  I for one can check off all of them as enjoyable.

  Shadowguy64

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 880

4/30/13 5:58:09 PM#22
Originally posted by Gravarg

I had a thread about this several months back (that's where I got my spotlight poster title weee lol), and I said back then that the instant gratification ruins the MMO experience.

 

If you like the following you might be a MMO player:

- Going into a forest or mine for hours to gather materials for crafting.

- Sitting at a workstation for hours turning wood and ore into something you can use.

- Sitting somewhere crafting for hours on end, just to get 1/4 of a level in a craft.

- Takes a year or more to get to the level cap.

- Killing so many "insert monster here" that people make comics and jokes about it...yet still you didn't level up.

- Grouping up to take on higher level enemies for bonus experience.

- Grouping up just to survive the trip to the next town.

- Grouping just for the sake of playing with friends, even if you could do it yourself.

- Death penalties that actually hurt.  Loss of experience and/or lots of resources...or even your gear.

- Having to go to a wiki or guide site to print out a map of the game world, because you're lost all the time.

 

 

You have to read each bullet point in your best Jeff Foxworthy voice and end each bullet with "you might be a MMO player"

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4660

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/30/13 5:58:25 PM#23
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 

But now they are making games for the people that didn't like MMO's 10 years ago. 

And they still don't like MMOs today.

That's what I'd add to your statement...

 

they're overexpanding, basically. the developers, that is. 

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/30/13 5:58:28 PM#24
Originally posted by c0exist
Originally posted by Gravarg

I had a thread about this several months back (that's where I got my spotlight poster title weee lol), and I said back then that the instant gratification ruins the MMO experience.

 

If you like the following you might be a MMO player:

- Going into a forest or mine for hours to gather materials for crafting.

- Sitting at a workstation for hours turning wood and ore into something you can use.

- Sitting somewhere crafting for hours on end, just to get 1/4 of a level in a craft.

- Takes a year or more to get to the level cap.

- Killing so many "insert monster here" that people make comics and jokes about it...yet still you didn't level up.

- Grouping up to take on higher level enemies for bonus experience.

- Grouping up just to survive the trip to the next town.

- Grouping just for the sake of playing with friends, even if you could do it yourself.

- Death penalties that actually hurt.  Loss of experience and/or lots of resources...or even your gear.

- Having to go to a wiki or guide site to print out a map of the game world, because you're lost all the time.

 

Very well put, that should be in all games terms and conditions.  If you do not like at least seven of these things dont even bother.  I for one can check off all of them as enjoyable.

I don't consider most of those as pre-requisites for MMO's.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3140

4/30/13 5:59:03 PM#25
Originally posted by c0exist
Originally posted by Gravarg

I had a thread about this several months back (that's where I got my spotlight poster title weee lol), and I said back then that the instant gratification ruins the MMO experience.

 

If you like the following you might be a MMO player:

- Going into a forest or mine for hours to gather materials for crafting.

- Sitting at a workstation for hours turning wood and ore into something you can use.

- Sitting somewhere crafting for hours on end, just to get 1/4 of a level in a craft.

- Takes a year or more to get to the level cap.

- Killing so many "insert monster here" that people make comics and jokes about it...yet still you didn't level up.

- Grouping up to take on higher level enemies for bonus experience.

- Grouping up just to survive the trip to the next town.

- Grouping just for the sake of playing with friends, even if you could do it yourself.

- Death penalties that actually hurt.  Loss of experience and/or lots of resources...or even your gear.

- Having to go to a wiki or guide site to print out a map of the game world, because you're lost all the time.

 

Very well put, that should be in all games terms and conditions.  If you do not like at least seven of these things dont even bother.  I for one can check off all of them as enjoyable.

Yeah, and can't help but notice the lack of anything about graphics...MMO players like graphics, but we'd gladly trade the above for them :)

 

I also forgot, "Policing the area for griefers, and corpsecamping them until they log...or if full loot, loot them, and make them give back what they've stolen, and pay a fine"  :)

  c0exist

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 187

4/30/13 6:03:55 PM#26
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

I don't consider most of those as pre-requisites for MMO's.

Exactly because the mmo's arent made with those in mind anymore.  I cant name one mmo nowadays that has at least 2 of those qualities.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12267

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

4/30/13 6:05:09 PM#27
Originally posted by Sovrath

@OP: not at all "dying". Just diluted.

 

Originally posted by Robokapp

the 'instant gratification' crowd will pass.

 

No they won't, they've always been there. It's just that some of them are interested in mmo's now.

/like

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Precusor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 4722

Aim Bot

4/30/13 6:08:41 PM#28
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Precusor
The instant gratification and the f2p crowd will eventually die out 

Why?

f2p crowd: what's the incentive? they get to play games for free and then move on to the next one when they are done. And/or they get to pay to get ahead, get their fun and move on to the next one when they are done.

Instant gratification crowd: people think that it's all people who are "young".

Rememember, we were all young(er) as well. When you played your older mmo's you were younger. But you stuck wth things because you had your eye on the prize.

However, there are players who want things "now" and what's worse they always have to win. Failure is not an option.

This is not to say everyone who plays f2p games is like this but "people" who want things without risk and quickly have been around for longer than any of us have been alive.

And then again longer...

Like P2P market.. people are going to get bored sick playing the same rehashed mediocre f2p mmos .

 

 

 

 

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4660

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/30/13 6:11:07 PM#29

sometimes i wonder if we're just seniors hating the freshmen or if we have a good reason to...

 

I'm one of those who wanted an E-sport revolution. before the internet existed, back when multiplayer means split-screen with 2 joysticks. 

 

joystick...joy...stick...dildo...anyway.

 

I cant blame players for this mess even if they are the root cause. Developers should know better. they are the ones with the vision and the final word. I will not accuse a player of ruining MMOs. he wants whatever he wants. Like we all do. Its what the devs do to respond to the market that is where my fustrations lie. 

  hockeyplayr

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/10
Posts: 558

4/30/13 6:12:23 PM#30

I played runescape for 5 years and never hit the old max level. Only made it to 114, yet it was always something to strive for amongst other activitites which is what kept me playing.

Edit: About death penalties in older mmos.  I feel like Aion did it right in terms of a crossover between the old and new. When it first released you lost experience when you died but it could be bought back with gold.  So you either had to grind the xp or grind for the gold.  Not as harsh if you had the coin, but still provided some sort of a penalty.  Then again I always like rushing back to where my armour was in runescape just to watch it disappear before I could pick it all up

  David_Lopan

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/10
Posts: 815

"There is no progress. Everything is the same as it was. Form changes. The essence does not." RLS

4/30/13 6:24:41 PM#31
IMO generation "Y" can't I have everything on a silver platter aint helping things, even outside of trivial games such as mmo's. I am really hoping for a digital media renaissance age. Reality TV, stupid auto pilot games, etc are ruining our minds and re-enforcing mental lazyness and sterile creativity.
  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3201

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

4/30/13 6:24:56 PM#32


Originally posted by Normandy7
Agreed. The younger generation wants the instant gratification instead of earning it. They think it is called grind when you don't accomplish something within 2 hours. MMOs are about the journey to the destination and if it takes me over a year to reach that then so be it. Atleast I know my money was well spent. Today it is about paying to be super powerful and clear the game in a weekend. Pretty pathetic!

Not necessarily the "Younguns." I see plenty of posts about "I don't have the time I used to have to play them. I want to accomplish things in the very limited time I have to play."

As to the OP, everyday we all get closer to death :) Aside from that, the players seeking virtual worlds are in the minority now. I don't see that changing anytime soon. As many divorcees plead, "But I have become accustomed to this lifestyle (game style)." Once you get things very quickly, it takes a special person to be able to back off from that with any sense of satisfaction.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  David_Lopan

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/10
Posts: 815

"There is no progress. Everything is the same as it was. Form changes. The essence does not." RLS

4/30/13 6:29:14 PM#33
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Normandy7
Agreed. The younger generation wants the instant gratification instead of earning it. They think it is called grind when you don't accomplish something within 2 hours. MMOs are about the journey to the destination and if it takes me over a year to reach that then so be it. Atleast I know my money was well spent. Today it is about paying to be super powerful and clear the game in a weekend. Pretty pathetic!


Not necessarily the "Younguns." I see plenty of posts about "I don't have the time I used to have to play them. I want to accomplish things in the very limited time I have to play."

 

As to the OP, everyday we all get closer to death :) Aside from that, the players seeking virtual worlds are in the minority now. I don't see that changing anytime soon. As many divorcees plead, "But I have become accustomed to this lifestyle (game style)." Once you get things very quickly, it takes a special person to be able to back off from that with any sense of satisfaction.

  Well said, although I believe the younger gen is the majority. I didnt have a ton of time back then either and I was perfectly happy taking my time with games.

  c0exist

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 187

4/30/13 6:31:57 PM#34
Everything here is true whether you agree with the OP or not (I for one do).  However, that does not mean that there cant be a game out there that is not completely westernized to the point that they are today.  One game cant suit everybody but they are all made the same.  You can keep the games that are there now but make one or two games that give us those classic mmorpg elements that this type of genre was founded on.  
  Tjed

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 161

4/30/13 6:32:46 PM#35
Originally posted by Gravarg

I had a thread about this several months back (that's where I got my spotlight poster title weee lol), and I said back then that the instant gratification ruins the MMO experience.

 

If you like the following you might be a MMO player:

- Going into a forest or mine for hours to gather materials for crafting.

- Sitting at a workstation for hours turning wood and ore into something you can use.

- Sitting somewhere crafting for hours on end, just to get 1/4 of a level in a craft.

- Takes a year or more to get to the level cap.

- Killing so many "insert monster here" that people make comics and jokes about it...yet still you didn't level up.

- Grouping up to take on higher level enemies for bonus experience.

- Grouping up just to survive the trip to the next town.

- Grouping just for the sake of playing with friends, even if you could do it yourself.

- Death penalties that actually hurt.  Loss of experience and/or lots of resources...or even your gear.

- Having to go to a wiki or guide site to print out a map of the game world, because you're lost all the time.

- Doing nothing but sitting in a bank, pub, house, or some other place just chatting with people.

 

 

I would go up to $30 a month to have something like this back again.

  David_Lopan

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/10
Posts: 815

"There is no progress. Everything is the same as it was. Form changes. The essence does not." RLS

4/30/13 6:35:22 PM#36
Originally posted by Tjed
Originally posted by Gravarg

I had a thread about this several months back (that's where I got my spotlight poster title weee lol), and I said back then that the instant gratification ruins the MMO experience.

 

If you like the following you might be a MMO player:

- Going into a forest or mine for hours to gather materials for crafting.

- Sitting at a workstation for hours turning wood and ore into something you can use.

- Sitting somewhere crafting for hours on end, just to get 1/4 of a level in a craft.

- Takes a year or more to get to the level cap.

- Killing so many "insert monster here" that people make comics and jokes about it...yet still you didn't level up.

- Grouping up to take on higher level enemies for bonus experience.

- Grouping up just to survive the trip to the next town.

- Grouping just for the sake of playing with friends, even if you could do it yourself.

- Death penalties that actually hurt.  Loss of experience and/or lots of resources...or even your gear.

- Having to go to a wiki or guide site to print out a map of the game world, because you're lost all the time.

- Doing nothing but sitting in a bank, pub, house, or some other place just chatting with people.

 

 

I would go up to $30 a month to have something like this back again.

   That would be cruel, but I would not mind the option.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1659

4/30/13 6:37:36 PM#37
 
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Precusor
The instant gratification and the f2p crowd will eventually die out 

Why?

f2p crowd: what's the incentive? they get to play games for free and then move on to the next one when they are done. And/or they get to pay to get ahead, get their fun and move on to the next one when they are done.

Instant gratification crowd: people think that it's all people who are "young".

Rememember, we were all young(er) as well. When you played your older mmo's you were younger. But you stuck wth things because you had your eye on the prize.

However, there are players who want things "now" and what's worse they always have to win. Failure is not an option.

This is not to say everyone who plays f2p games is like this but "people" who want things without risk and quickly have been around for longer than any of us have been alive.

And then again longer...

 

The irony I see in Precursors post is that the most grindy take a long long time to level in are..... drumroll...... f2p games.Max a toon in Rappelz, Atlantica, Cabal Online, and many other f2p MMO's in a few weeks, no way Jose, so I think the "old guys" need to make their mind up as thats the criticism Asian Grinder... compared to US Grinder, EQ or EU grinder EvE (yes EvE you heard me the basic of EvE is grind ISK)

 

Whenever I read one of these threads common sense just goes flying out the window, old MMO's took a long time because the gameplay was simplistic and easy to create especially in the case of EQ build a low rez area thats green stick a few trees in and BINGO! Elf Lovers Wood now bang in a load of slightly different mobs and get players to group up and get 0.0001% per mob. There's EQ for you OH! and L2 and FFXI and DAOC. Though alternatively you could get players to click on various objects in game world and raise your skill by 0.034% and call it say Ultima Online or how about Star Wars Galaxies. No-one would put up with that gameplay today just look at Darkfall I played that at release, OH! my giddy aunt, that was fecking tedious. The MMO market has followed the trends set by players so really you lot of Vets are to blame for the perceieved state of modern MMO's. There right back atcha!

 

To answer the OP I'm an old fart gaming wise been around longer than most of you, (started gaming mid 70's) so if you want to stay in the past then yes you are a dying breed or you can go all Zen and just go with da flow. I choose the latter personally I do not want to go back to playing Pong, Centipede or Atic Atac (Spectrum game) or even Zelda: A Link To The Past thank you.

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

4/30/13 6:39:07 PM#38
Originally posted by Normandy7
Agreed. The younger generation wants the instant gratification instead of earning it. They think it is called grind when you don't accomplish something within 2 hours. MMOs are about the journey to the destination and if it takes me over a year to reach that then so be it. Atleast I know my money was well spent. Today it is about paying to be super powerful and clear the game in a weekend. Pretty pathetic!

It isn't the younger generation, it's all generations, yours included.  It's just that MMOs started as a very small niche, once WoW came along, a huge number of *YOUR* generation who wanted instant gratification came along and started playing MMOs.  You act like there's something wrong with them when the truth is, you're the one who falls outside of the norm.  What's wrong with you?

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4660

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

4/30/13 6:46:26 PM#39
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by Normandy7
Agreed. The younger generation wants the instant gratification instead of earning it. They think it is called grind when you don't accomplish something within 2 hours. MMOs are about the journey to the destination and if it takes me over a year to reach that then so be it. Atleast I know my money was well spent. Today it is about paying to be super powerful and clear the game in a weekend. Pretty pathetic!

It isn't the younger generation, it's all generations, yours included.  It's just that MMOs started as a very small niche, once WoW came along, a huge number of *YOUR* generation who wanted instant gratification came along and started playing MMOs.  You act like there's something wrong with them when the truth is, you're the one who falls outside of the norm.  What's wrong with you?

if everyone says 2+2=5...are you insane for stating otherwise ?

 

Orwell...had a point.

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

4/30/13 6:46:30 PM#40
I'm a different old dying breed.
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