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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » F2P is making more than TWICE as much money as P2P in the US

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196 posts found
  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2548

World > Quest Progression

4/30/13 5:14:43 PM#21
So the handful of purely P2P games pulled in 30% of the revenue share after production costs? Go P2P!

Of course I'm more interested in the playerbase growth which is always good news. I do find these types of figures entertaining as not many companies make thier profits public, let alone itemized. Still good to see growth of players.
  ZombieKen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

4/30/13 5:24:19 PM#22

Times change, markets change, tech changes, games change, payment models adapt.

 

I think Scarlet Blade is a great example.  Have you ever seen anyone say it should be monetized as box plus subscription?  I doubt it.  Now ask yourself why is that.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  aWRAY

Novice Member

Joined: 7/31/11
Posts: 86

4/30/13 5:35:11 PM#23
Originally posted by Tjed
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Tjed

Still, I have never seen anyone else that really, really likes them as much as the OP.  Is it just a disestablishmentarian type of thing to combat the general attitude around this website?

Wait .. where did i say i "really likes them". I just post some statistics.

BTW, just to be complete open here, i play F2P games but never buy anything from a cashshop. I prefer to have my fun free. So you can say i really like F2P, but certainly not microtransaction since i don't participate. I don't buy stuff from cash shop, so far.

The ONLY exception is D3, which i made money. So in that case, i do like that form of RMT where i can make money (oh i did spend some back for gear, but over all, i made a small amount ~$80 ... and it is nice to have fun and also get some money at the same time).

 

Fair enough, and I actually do enjoy reading your posts as a counter argument to some people that get overly emotional about things.  You stay very grounded in facts which I can respect.  I have just never seen anyone so passionate about free gaming. 

I doubt he is "passionate" about the posts he makes about f2p vs everything else. Judging by his post count and how often he is engaging in conversation on this website, I'd make the assumption that his "passion" is entirely ego driven. 

He is trying to be the "white knight of f2p". Every new thread is the same old "f2p is better than the rest look at statistics!'

  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

4/30/13 5:35:33 PM#24
Originally posted by XAPKen

Times change, markets change, tech changes, games change, payment models adapt.

 

I think Scarlet Blade is a great example.  Have you ever seen anyone say it should be monetized as box plus subscription?  I doubt it.  Now ask yourself why is that.

 

because its a korean MMO adapted for play in the states and is mostly expecting to make a bit of quick cash, since they did little more then translate, (and badly i might add)

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6704

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

4/30/13 5:38:29 PM#25

YAY the companies are making more money! That is so great news for us gamers...

Except it is NOT. Are the MMO quality of games improving? I say a big NO to that. Short of GW 2, there hasn't been a good MMO released in years.

  Squeak69

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 972

cheese cheese wheres da bloody cheese

4/30/13 5:39:53 PM#26
Originally posted by Yamota

YAY the companies are making more money! That is so great news for us gamers...

Except it is NOT. Are the MMO quality of games improving? I say a big NO to that. Short of GW 2, there hasn't been a good MMO released in years.

and some would argue that one.

F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6704

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

4/30/13 5:41:03 PM#27
Originally posted by XAPKen

Times change, markets change, tech changes, games change, payment models adapt.

 

I think Scarlet Blade is a great example.  Have you ever seen anyone say it should be monetized as box plus subscription?  I doubt it.  Now ask yourself why is that.

 

Exactly. This F2P crap is actually made it so that more low quality, garbage MMOs can be released because it will be F2P and they will be able to dupe a few weak-minded people to fork out houndreds of dollars for playing a freaking video game.

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3333

Poacher killer.

4/30/13 6:07:38 PM#28
Originally posted by aWRAY
Originally posted by Tjed

Fair enough, and I actually do enjoy reading your posts as a counter argument to some people that get overly emotional about things.  You stay very grounded in facts which I can respect.  I have just never seen anyone so passionate about free gaming. 

I doubt he is "passionate" about the posts he makes about f2p vs everything else. Judging by his post count and how often he is engaging in conversation on this website, I'd make the assumption that his "passion" is entirely ego driven. 

He is trying to be the "white knight of f2p". Every new thread is the same old "f2p is better than the rest look at statistics!

It amazes me how much energy people can put into this nonsense. To me this shit is completely transparent, but I can't figure out how some of these "regulars" fly under the radar when they behave this way so often.

Like RefMinor, I knew who made this yet another thread just by reading the subject. That's when you know it's bad ;)

"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1443

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

4/30/13 6:10:09 PM#29

 


Originally posted by RefMinor
[mod edit]

 


As did most of us, lol. "F2P" is a bubble, nothing more. It may last years, but it will burst when enough players get burned by it.


The title is misleading. "Making twice the revenue" is irrelevant unless you look at costs. Did it take $400 million in "F2P" game development costs to generate that $186 million? Regarding P2P, what, if any, major development efforts went into P2P games last year? And yet they still made $86 million.


Seems to me like P2P is in the green and "F2P" is in the red.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4917

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/30/13 6:43:47 PM#30
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by RefMinor
[mod edit]


 


As did most of us, lol. "F2P" is a bubble, nothing more. It may last years, but it will burst when enough players get burned by it.


The title is misleading. "Making twice the revenue" is irrelevant unless you look at costs. Did it take $400 million in "F2P" game development costs to generate that $186 million? Regarding P2P, what, if any, major development efforts went into P2P games last year? And yet they still made $86 million.


Seems to me like P2P is in the green and "F2P" is in the red.

That kinda of goes against the belief that f2p games are low budget in/out quick peices of crap doesn't it.  If they are, and p2p are not, then f2p would have an even greater profit margin.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3871

RIP City of Heroes!

4/30/13 6:48:14 PM#31
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by kadepsyson

Also, the numbers seem really far off from what I'd expect.  For example, if $86 million is the total revenue for subscriptions, that means at $15 monthly fees there are only 5 million subscribed players in the USA paying subs for MMOs.  Doesn't that seem extremely low?

That is why you need research because what you expect is not accurate.

5M is extremely low? Not really. Few wants to stick to a sub. Most MMO players play F2P.

In fact, if it is not for WOW (still 2M in the US?), the number would be MUCH lower.

 Ok smart guy.  Do you think people want to pay for cars and houses?  Most people would love a free car or a free house.  That doesn't make it the best idea.  This F2P will not serve all game companies well but will help transient gamers move from game to game without spending a penny.  The suckers who support these welware players will wake up at some point and demand more or see that they are not going to have great long term value in spend their bucks.  Then they will  move on. 

  Shaigh

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/07/13
Posts: 356

4/30/13 7:12:31 PM#32

Monthly spending for top free-to-play MMO's: World of tank players outspend League of Legends 6x

http://www.superdataresearch.com/market-movers/

 

Superdata has a very broad definition on MMO's, and neither of those games are MMO's. Still very interesting to see that the average world of tank player pays 7.58 dollars per month.

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1669

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

4/30/13 7:23:52 PM#33
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by RefMinor
[mod edit]

But can you guess how much more money F2P is making compared to P2P without seeing the post?

good question but heres a better one, if we take the percentage of F2P to P2P and then we take the percentage of F2P games on the market compared to the percentage of P2P games on the market adn tehn compare them i wonder what the number will be.

just a rough guess would be

3 to 1 on profits (F2P to P2P)

and about

close to 500 compared to less then 10 (F2P to P2P)

now these numbers are not accurate but ill bet they are rougly close

now im no mathy person but there dose seem to be a pattern here.

Didn't see anywhere what they are counting as mmo's, so that ratio could be a lot higher.

  Arakazi

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 864

4/30/13 7:40:19 PM#34
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by kadepsyson

Also, the numbers seem really far off from what I'd expect.  For example, if $86 million is the total revenue for subscriptions, that means at $15 monthly fees there are only 5 million subscribed players in the USA paying subs for MMOs.  Doesn't that seem extremely low?

That is why you need research because what you expect is not accurate.

5M is extremely low? Not really. Few wants to stick to a sub. Most MMO players play F2P.

In fact, if it is not for WOW (still 2M in the US?), the number would be MUCH lower.

 Ok smart guy.  Do you think people want to pay for cars and houses?  Most people would love a free car or a free house.  That doesn't make it the best idea.  This F2P will not serve all game companies well but will help transient gamers move from game to game without spending a penny.  The suckers who support these welware players will wake up at some point and demand more or see that they are not going to have great long term value in spend their bucks.  Then they will  move on. 

I'm not so cheap that I would spend my free time playing garbage just because its free, I value my free time too highly for that.

<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/11.jpg></a></p>RL][/CENTER]

  mmoguy43

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2354

4/30/13 7:52:25 PM#35

Considering the fact that F2P's biggest funders are the whales that dump a lot more cash than time into the games, it isn't surprising.

How much of that money is recycled into making more cash shop stuff compared to improving the rest of the game?

Let's build the ultimate MMO 1 feature at a time
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/398555/page/1

"blocked nariusseldon since forever"

  niceguy3978

Elite Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 2016

4/30/13 7:58:09 PM#36
Originally posted by nariusseldon

http://2p.com/5170acba61fc1cbdad62bf61_1/March-2013-US-Digital-Games-Market-Overview.htm

 

"Speaking of the MMO, the free-to-play MMO is definitely a trendy and have a growth of 3 million players in March, which also brings a slight improvement on monetization to $195 million. To the contrary, the pay-to-play MMO segment is going down in March and loses around 289,000 subscribers. Nonetheless, the overall revenues remained relatively stable at $86 million"

 

 

Well, that is 5.7 million people or so subbing.  That is a fairly healthy playerbase, though most of that is playing 1 game.  I'm assuming that they are separating the money generated in hybrid, "freemium," games between the revenue gernerated from the subs and the revenue generated from the f2p players.  Or are they lumping all the figures together?

  Waldoe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/10
Posts: 625

4/30/13 8:06:17 PM#37
Lol the obsession people have on this site with f2p is amazing.. There is a minimum of 5 threads a day about f2p and how games should all go f2p, which is especially funny because p2p is not going anywhere.
  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4917

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

4/30/13 8:08:08 PM#38
Originally posted by Waldoe
Lol the obsession people have on this site with f2p is amazing.. There is a minimum of 5 threads a day about f2p and how games should all go f2p, which is especially funny because p2p is not going anywhere.

 I see the opposite. I see more threads about how f2p is destroying everything than threads about how games should be f2p.

Which is especially funny because f2p is not going anywhere.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Waldoe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/10
Posts: 625

4/30/13 8:14:30 PM#39
The article is also so misleading it is not even funny. What  big name AAA sub-based games have launched recently? None. When FF14, TESO, WildStar, and ArcheAge all launch this year and are sub-based show me that updated article.
  Arakazi

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 864

4/30/13 8:14:39 PM#40
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Waldoe
Lol the obsession people have on this site with f2p is amazing.. There is a minimum of 5 threads a day about f2p and how games should all go f2p, which is especially funny because p2p is not going anywhere.

 I see the opposite. I see more threads about how f2p is destroying everything than threads about how games should be f2p.

Which is especially funny because f2p is not going anywhere.

I think B2P is the future anyway. GW2 model is something I prefer - I buy the game for $60 and don't have to worry about another bill from them. There is a limited cash shop ingame but nothing I need to buy unless I like fluff. I've yet to encounter a F2P game that I thought matched the quality of a AAA B2P mmo. The better f2p games on the market are the ones that used to be P2P but for one reason or other changed their business model.

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