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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » F2P is making more than TWICE as much money as P2P in the US

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196 posts found
  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1233

5/03/13 11:08:09 AM#181
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
 

More things to do = more things for different people to find fun....did that really need to be explained? What I find fun may be completely different than what you find fun. If a game has more things to do in it, chances are it will have something we both find fun, even if its different activities. I really don;t understand how this can be debated lol

No .. more boring things .. are not fun.

Examples. In EQ, you can stare at a spellbook. You can wait 20 min on a boat. Few wants those. They took some of that out. So more is not better.

 

/Sigh...cuz im referring to staring at spell books right?

Ill politely bow out of this discussion before I get troll baited further

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19143

 
OP  5/03/13 11:15:31 AM#182
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
 

More things to do = more things for different people to find fun....did that really need to be explained? What I find fun may be completely different than what you find fun. If a game has more things to do in it, chances are it will have something we both find fun, even if its different activities. I really don;t understand how this can be debated lol

No .. more boring things .. are not fun.

Examples. In EQ, you can stare at a spellbook. You can wait 20 min on a boat. Few wants those. They took some of that out. So more is not better.

 

/Sigh...cuz im referring to staring at spell books right?

Ill politely bow out of this discussion before I get troll baited further

Not in particular, but you did say "More things to do = more things for different people to find fun", which is obviously not true because there are a lot of "things to do" is boring to many.

Staring at a spellbook is a good example. Do you think WOW should implement "staring at a spellbook" just in the name of having "more things to do".

 

  danwest58

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 502

5/03/13 11:18:35 AM#183
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by danwest58
 

It will last until EQNext and Titan come out because both will be P2P and both games will change the MMO Genera.  The Only reason why F2P is popular now is because how many cookie cutter copy MMOS there are out there.  O and BTW there are more P2P players than F2P players, just look at WoW they have 10 million Subscriptions.  No F2P game has that many players period.  You like your F2P mmo genera and several times stated that and no matter what you will not look at Facts and accept them. 

LOL ... you are willing to bet money on that? No one knows what happens with games that are not released yet.

And here is the fact, F2P players outnumber P2P 6 to 1. I have evidence to support it. You have none, except your opinion.

http://www.superdataresearch.com/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/

And i quote "If you were to look at the growth of the audience alone, the market for F2P games is substantially larger than that for pay-to-play. Six times larger, in fact."

I guess you can keep sticking you head in the sand.

Yea and how many of the 6 Free 2 play accounts is 1 person with mutliple accounts?  Guess what, I have the following Free 2 Play accounts.  LOTRO, DDO, Tera, 1 of my 2 SWTOR accounts, GW2, Evony, Lords of Ultima, The Hobbit, AOEO, Vanguard, EQ1 and EQ2.  I also have or had until recently Paid 2 play accounts in WoW, Rift, SWTOR, UO.  Guess what each game counts 1 account as 1 player regardless of whether they have 1 or 5 accounts.  I have more F2P accounts because well at one time I played them; it does not mean that I am active in these games.  It does not mean that my Free 2 Play accounts out number F2P accounts just because I at 1 time played and still have an account.  It’s just a way for a Publisher to say HEY WE HAVE XXXXX PLAYERS!  When in reality it’s just a smoke and mirrors show.  They do not have the numbers they claim, just because someone register does not mean they have that many active players.  Only people like you with EPEEN Envy that cannot use Deductive reasoning believe what you read because it’s on the internet.  You know what I have played with dozens of other players, MANY of which have at least 1 account if not multiple Free to Play accounts in MMOs.  The fact is having a Free 2 Play account its always mark as an Active account even if that player NEVER plays. 

Just because a Free2Play game as 1 Million Registered accounts does not mean it has 1 Million Actively players.  This is why the 6 to 1 F2P accounts out number P2P accounts.  Because P2P accounts are ONLY active when players are actively paying for them, MOST of the time; actively paying players are actively playing the game.  F2P does not go by the same rules, it’s the number of registered accounts regardless of whether the person is playing or not.

So keep LOL and thinking you know more just because 1 internet website put out some information does not make it fact or true.  Its understanding the truth behind the information that was posted and having the ability to use Logical deductive reasoning to truly understand what is being represented.  Which honestly you do not have, if you did you would understand why 6 F2P to 1 P2P “PLAYERS” is just a FASLE statement.  Logic can tell you that, believing they cannot put anything that is false on the internet gets you to where you are at.  “I READ SOMETHING ON THE INTERNET ITS FACT”  /shakes head

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1233

5/03/13 11:19:17 AM#184
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
 

More things to do = more things for different people to find fun....did that really need to be explained? What I find fun may be completely different than what you find fun. If a game has more things to do in it, chances are it will have something we both find fun, even if its different activities. I really don;t understand how this can be debated lol

No .. more boring things .. are not fun.

Examples. In EQ, you can stare at a spellbook. You can wait 20 min on a boat. Few wants those. They took some of that out. So more is not better.

 

/Sigh...cuz im referring to staring at spell books right?

Ill politely bow out of this discussion before I get troll baited further

Not in particular, but you did say "More things to do = more things for different people to find fun", which is obviously not true because there are a lot of "things to do" is boring to many.

Staring at a spellbook is a good example. Do you think WOW should implement "staring at a spellbook" just in the name of having "more things to do".

 

I know full well I am getting trolled here, but I will slightly bite.....I can say im referring to "activities", and you will just rpely that ppl can interprate staring at a spell book as an "activity"...and this will go in circles without you acknowledging the point.

BTW, your forum posts are the most entertaining to read. You are honestly one of the smartest and entertaining posters on this site. The jumps in meaning you take are turly masterfull, and i am dead serious about this lol.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4688

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

5/03/13 11:24:46 AM#185
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by danwest58
 

It will last until EQNext and Titan come out because both will be P2P and both games will change the MMO Genera.  The Only reason why F2P is popular now is because how many cookie cutter copy MMOS there are out there.  O and BTW there are more P2P players than F2P players, just look at WoW they have 10 million Subscriptions.  No F2P game has that many players period.  You like your F2P mmo genera and several times stated that and no matter what you will not look at Facts and accept them. 

LOL ... you are willing to bet money on that? No one knows what happens with games that are not released yet.

And here is the fact, F2P players outnumber P2P 6 to 1. I have evidence to support it. You have none, except your opinion.

http://www.superdataresearch.com/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/

And i quote "If you were to look at the growth of the audience alone, the market for F2P games is substantially larger than that for pay-to-play. Six times larger, in fact."

I guess you can keep sticking you head in the sand.

Yea and how many of the 6 Free 2 play accounts is 1 person with mutliple accounts?  Guess what, I have the following Free 2 Play accounts.  LOTRO, DDO, Tera, 1 of my 2 SWTOR accounts, GW2, Evony, Lords of Ultima, The Hobbit, AOEO, Vanguard, EQ1 and EQ2.  I also have or had until recently Paid 2 play accounts in WoW, Rift, SWTOR, UO.  Guess what each game counts 1 account as 1 player regardless of whether they have 1 or 5 accounts.  I have more F2P accounts because well at one time I played them; it does not mean that I am active in these games.  It does not mean that my Free 2 Play accounts out number F2P accounts just because I at 1 time played and still have an account.  It’s just a way for a Publisher to say HEY WE HAVE XXXXX PLAYERS!  When in reality it’s just a smoke and mirrors show.  They do not have the numbers they claim, just because someone register does not mean they have that many active players.  Only people like you with EPEEN Envy that cannot use Deductive reasoning believe what you read because it’s on the internet.  You know what I have played with dozens of other players, MANY of which have at least 1 account if not multiple Free to Play accounts in MMOs.  The fact is having a Free 2 Play account its always mark as an Active account even if that player NEVER plays. 

Just because a Free2Play game as 1 Million Registered accounts does not mean it has 1 Million Actively players.  This is why the 6 to 1 F2P accounts out number P2P accounts.  Because P2P accounts are ONLY active when players are actively paying for them, MOST of the time; actively paying players are actively playing the game.  F2P does not go by the same rules, it’s the number of registered accounts regardless of whether the person is playing or not.

So keep LOL and thinking you know more just because 1 internet website put out some information does not make it fact or true.  Its understanding the truth behind the information that was posted and having the ability to use Logical deductive reasoning to truly understand what is being represented.  Which honestly you do not have, if you did you would understand why 6 F2P to 1 P2P “PLAYERS” is just a FASLE statement.  Logic can tell you that, believing they cannot put anything that is false on the internet gets you to where you are at.  “I READ SOMETHING ON THE INTERNET ITS FACT”  /shakes head

 How many of the p2p accounts are mutli-boxing.  Sheesh isn't the commong thinking that everyone in AC boxes, that most in Eve or Wow dual+box?

I dont' believe the majority do box but that is the thinking that is pervasive here.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19143

 
OP  5/03/13 11:29:22 AM#186
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
 

More things to do = more things for different people to find fun....did that really need to be explained? What I find fun may be completely different than what you find fun. If a game has more things to do in it, chances are it will have something we both find fun, even if its different activities. I really don;t understand how this can be debated lol

No .. more boring things .. are not fun.

Examples. In EQ, you can stare at a spellbook. You can wait 20 min on a boat. Few wants those. They took some of that out. So more is not better.

 

/Sigh...cuz im referring to staring at spell books right?

Ill politely bow out of this discussion before I get troll baited further

Not in particular, but you did say "More things to do = more things for different people to find fun", which is obviously not true because there are a lot of "things to do" is boring to many.

Staring at a spellbook is a good example. Do you think WOW should implement "staring at a spellbook" just in the name of having "more things to do".

 

I know full well I am getting trolled here, but I will slightly bite.....I can say im referring to "activities", and you will just rpely that ppl can interprate staring at a spell book as an "activity"...and this will go in circles without you acknowledging the point.

BTW, your forum posts are the most entertaining to read. You are honestly one of the smartest and entertaining posters on this site. The jumps in meaning you take are turly masterfull, and i am dead serious about this lol.

Activites? How about clicking on a rock again, again, and again to increase your strength little by little? How about running in circles to unlock a box. They are all activities, but not necessarily fun.

BTW, thank you for your kind words. It is nice to be appreciated, even if not agreed upon. And please feel free to disagree, and debate, as long as we use civil language.

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1233

5/03/13 11:30:41 AM#187
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
 

More things to do = more things for different people to find fun....did that really need to be explained? What I find fun may be completely different than what you find fun. If a game has more things to do in it, chances are it will have something we both find fun, even if its different activities. I really don;t understand how this can be debated lol

No .. more boring things .. are not fun.

Examples. In EQ, you can stare at a spellbook. You can wait 20 min on a boat. Few wants those. They took some of that out. So more is not better.

 

/Sigh...cuz im referring to staring at spell books right?

Ill politely bow out of this discussion before I get troll baited further

Not in particular, but you did say "More things to do = more things for different people to find fun", which is obviously not true because there are a lot of "things to do" is boring to many.

Staring at a spellbook is a good example. Do you think WOW should implement "staring at a spellbook" just in the name of having "more things to do".

 

I know full well I am getting trolled here, but I will slightly bite.....I can say im referring to "activities", and you will just rpely that ppl can interprate staring at a spell book as an "activity"...and this will go in circles without you acknowledging the point.

BTW, your forum posts are the most entertaining to read. You are honestly one of the smartest and entertaining posters on this site. The jumps in meaning you take are turly masterfull, and i am dead serious about this lol.

Activites? How about clicking on a rock again, again, and again to increase your strength little by little? How about running in circles to unlock a box. They are all activities, but not necessarily fun.

BTW, thank you for your kind words. It is nice to be appreciated, even if not agreed upon. And please feel free to disagree, and debate, as long as we use civil language.

2 part question:

Whats an endgame activity you consider fun?

Do you like endgame raiding?

  thinktank001

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1776

5/03/13 12:09:40 PM#188
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 How many of the p2p accounts are mutli-boxing.  Sheesh isn't the commong thinking that everyone in AC boxes, that most in Eve or Wow dual+box?

I dont' believe the majority do box but that is the thinking that is pervasive here.

 

Normally I would agree with your statements, but the current cheap hardware and software that allows players to run multiple clients give players every reason to play this way.  Not to mention, cash shop based games don't have the cost barrier, and probably have some kind of limitation that gives added incentive for players to play games with multiple accounts.   

 

From my personal perspective, aside from POE, I haven't made less than 5 accounts in any cash shop based game that I have spent a decent amount of time playing, and used them all monthly if not more.  

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4688

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

5/03/13 12:12:50 PM#189

Thats fine and your right it is easier to box in a f2p game vs p2p because there is no cost of entry.

But personal experience cannot be extrapolated to a larger market.

In this last year I have I have played Istaria, WoW, Swtor EQ and EQ2.  I did not box in swtor, I did in EQ, EQ2 and WoW.

Just thinking about boxing in Istaria makes me shiver.

edit - hmm that may not be entirely true. I do have an alt free account in istaria to transfer items between my alts. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  danwest58

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 502

5/03/13 12:23:00 PM#190
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by danwest58
 

It will last until EQNext and Titan come out because both will be P2P and both games will change the MMO Genera.  The Only reason why F2P is popular now is because how many cookie cutter copy MMOS there are out there.  O and BTW there are more P2P players than F2P players, just look at WoW they have 10 million Subscriptions.  No F2P game has that many players period.  You like your F2P mmo genera and several times stated that and no matter what you will not look at Facts and accept them. 

LOL ... you are willing to bet money on that? No one knows what happens with games that are not released yet.

And here is the fact, F2P players outnumber P2P 6 to 1. I have evidence to support it. You have none, except your opinion.

http://www.superdataresearch.com/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/

And i quote "If you were to look at the growth of the audience alone, the market for F2P games is substantially larger than that for pay-to-play. Six times larger, in fact."

I guess you can keep sticking you head in the sand.

Yea and how many of the 6 Free 2 play accounts is 1 person with mutliple accounts?  Guess what, I have the following Free 2 Play accounts.  LOTRO, DDO, Tera, 1 of my 2 SWTOR accounts, GW2, Evony, Lords of Ultima, The Hobbit, AOEO, Vanguard, EQ1 and EQ2.  I also have or had until recently Paid 2 play accounts in WoW, Rift, SWTOR, UO.  Guess what each game counts 1 account as 1 player regardless of whether they have 1 or 5 accounts.  I have more F2P accounts because well at one time I played them; it does not mean that I am active in these games.  It does not mean that my Free 2 Play accounts out number F2P accounts just because I at 1 time played and still have an account.  It’s just a way for a Publisher to say HEY WE HAVE XXXXX PLAYERS!  When in reality it’s just a smoke and mirrors show.  They do not have the numbers they claim, just because someone register does not mean they have that many active players.  Only people like you with EPEEN Envy that cannot use Deductive reasoning believe what you read because it’s on the internet.  You know what I have played with dozens of other players, MANY of which have at least 1 account if not multiple Free to Play accounts in MMOs.  The fact is having a Free 2 Play account its always mark as an Active account even if that player NEVER plays. 

Just because a Free2Play game as 1 Million Registered accounts does not mean it has 1 Million Actively players.  This is why the 6 to 1 F2P accounts out number P2P accounts.  Because P2P accounts are ONLY active when players are actively paying for them, MOST of the time; actively paying players are actively playing the game.  F2P does not go by the same rules, it’s the number of registered accounts regardless of whether the person is playing or not.

So keep LOL and thinking you know more just because 1 internet website put out some information does not make it fact or true.  Its understanding the truth behind the information that was posted and having the ability to use Logical deductive reasoning to truly understand what is being represented.  Which honestly you do not have, if you did you would understand why 6 F2P to 1 P2P “PLAYERS” is just a FASLE statement.  Logic can tell you that, believing they cannot put anything that is false on the internet gets you to where you are at.  “I READ SOMETHING ON THE INTERNET ITS FACT”  /shakes head

 How many of the p2p accounts are mutli-boxing.  Sheesh isn't the commong thinking that everyone in AC boxes, that most in Eve or Wow dual+box?

I dont' believe the majority do box but that is the thinking that is pervasive here.

Yes there are people that mutlibox on MMOs like WoW and Eve, however it’s not enough to skew the P2P account numbers.  Whereas what is more prevalent is players that have accounts in multiple MMOs which will skew MMO account numbers in F2P games upward vs the amount of people that mutlibox.   Let me give you an example of a handful of my friends and what games they have at least 1 account to.

Myself

P2P

WoW, Rift, UO, SWTOR (1 of my 2 accounts)

F2P

LOTRO, DDO, Tera, 1 of my 2 SWTOR accounts, GW2, Evony, Lords of Ultima, The Hobbit, AOEO, Vanguard, EQ1 and EQ2, I also forgot Runes of Magic in my first list.

My Wife

P2P

WoW, Rift

F2P

Swtor, LOTRO, Tera, EQ1, EQ2, Runes of Magic

Weavea

P2P

WoW, Rift, SWTOR

F2P

LOTRO, DDO, Tera, Evony, EQ2

Tags

P2P

WoW, SWTOR

F2P

LOL, LOTRO, Runes of Magic, EQ2,

This is myself, my Wife and 2 of my closest MMO friends and what accounts they have even if they have not played a game like LOTRO in over a year.  LOTRO still counts an inactive player as a Player because the account in F2P game is always active.  Also how does SWTOR count its player base?  3 Of us have subscriptions with them right now are they counting the 3 accounts as active F2P players? 

This is why I against Nariusseldon’s rant here is because what is represented and how he is interrupting the information is incorrect.  It’s too easy to misrepresent data in favor of 1 view point or another unless you dig down deep into the raw data.  I can say with certainty that the 6 F2P to 1 P2P account does not truly show what is really occurring because how do you account for a common occurrence like 1 person with 1 or more accounts on multiple MMOS.  Or accounts that maybe quit playing in DDO 3 years ago that still show as active in the F2P market when that person is only playing a Subscription game?

  waynejr2

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3707

RIP City of Heroes!

5/03/13 12:30:32 PM#191
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sagasaint
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Vorthanion
 

How sustainable do you think it can remain when a good number of people freeload at the expense of others.  The resentment alone will eventually become explosive, but I have a feeling that more and more people will stop paying into the shops due to that very resentment and could very well dramatically shift the F2P paradigm into a bunch of game closures.

Very sustainable. It has sustained the growth from p2p making more monety than f2p to f2p making now twice as much. And even if there will be dramatic game closures, which is just a guess with zero evidence on your part, we can have some free fun before that happens.

So all good.

that doesnt prove they are sustainable, just they havent reached critical mass yet

 

pyramid schemes are also able to hold on for some time before crushing on their own weight

 

give them more time. I have absolutly no doubts that the future of F2P will mimic the current economy...epic disaster ahead....

No one can prove anything for the future, because it has not happened yet. So in that sense, you are right.

However, it does susbtained growth in the last few years. How long will it last? No one will know, but i will bet money that it will last more than 2014. And personally, i don't particularly care if the whole F2P will crash and burn in 3-4 years. Entertainment can change drastic in that kind of time frame anyway. Who knows what we will be playing then?

It will last until EQNext and Titan come out because both will be P2P and both games will change the MMO Genera.  The Only reason why F2P is popular now is because how many cookie cutter copy MMOS there are out there.  O and BTW there are more P2P players than F2P players, just look at WoW they have 10 million Subscriptions.  No F2P game has that many players period.  You like your F2P mmo genera and several times stated that and no matter what you will not look at Facts and accept them. 

Fact

All MMOs that have gone F2P is a cookie cutter of another game and has little content

All the new MMOs today have players consume the content in a matter of a month or 2

All MMOs that have gone F2P have had major decline in player population in the first few months because they don’t listen to the fan base

Since WoW the genera has not changed yes in 2013 MMOs are going to move away from Themepark to Sandbox however still try to have the old hardcore rule sets that kept Sandbox populations low, no new ideas have come out yet.  (See Eqnext and Titan for new ideas later this year)

At the end of the day many MMO players that will pay to play don’t feel that new games since WoW are worth paying to play.  Some players do however the masses do not. 

 As to the consuming the content in a month or 2.  Not all mmorpg players are interested in a long term progression.  I would say that many of the f2p players don't care about the games that much and use it as something to occupy their time.  So flipping games all the time makes sense for them and running through games so quickly has them complaining as to why we don't have games to play...

  danwest58

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 502

5/03/13 12:49:29 PM#192
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sagasaint
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Vorthanion
 

How sustainable do you think it can remain when a good number of people freeload at the expense of others.  The resentment alone will eventually become explosive, but I have a feeling that more and more people will stop paying into the shops due to that very resentment and could very well dramatically shift the F2P paradigm into a bunch of game closures.

Very sustainable. It has sustained the growth from p2p making more monety than f2p to f2p making now twice as much. And even if there will be dramatic game closures, which is just a guess with zero evidence on your part, we can have some free fun before that happens.

So all good.

that doesnt prove they are sustainable, just they havent reached critical mass yet

 

pyramid schemes are also able to hold on for some time before crushing on their own weight

 

give them more time. I have absolutly no doubts that the future of F2P will mimic the current economy...epic disaster ahead....

No one can prove anything for the future, because it has not happened yet. So in that sense, you are right.

However, it does susbtained growth in the last few years. How long will it last? No one will know, but i will bet money that it will last more than 2014. And personally, i don't particularly care if the whole F2P will crash and burn in 3-4 years. Entertainment can change drastic in that kind of time frame anyway. Who knows what we will be playing then?

It will last until EQNext and Titan come out because both will be P2P and both games will change the MMO Genera.  The Only reason why F2P is popular now is because how many cookie cutter copy MMOS there are out there.  O and BTW there are more P2P players than F2P players, just look at WoW they have 10 million Subscriptions.  No F2P game has that many players period.  You like your F2P mmo genera and several times stated that and no matter what you will not look at Facts and accept them. 

Fact

All MMOs that have gone F2P is a cookie cutter of another game and has little content

All the new MMOs today have players consume the content in a matter of a month or 2

All MMOs that have gone F2P have had major decline in player population in the first few months because they don’t listen to the fan base

Since WoW the genera has not changed yes in 2013 MMOs are going to move away from Themepark to Sandbox however still try to have the old hardcore rule sets that kept Sandbox populations low, no new ideas have come out yet.  (See Eqnext and Titan for new ideas later this year)

At the end of the day many MMO players that will pay to play don’t feel that new games since WoW are worth paying to play.  Some players do however the masses do not. 

 As to the consuming the content in a month or 2.  Not all mmorpg players are interested in a long term progression.  I would say that many of the f2p players don't care about the games that much and use it as something to occupy their time.  So flipping games all the time makes sense for them and running through games so quickly has them complaining as to why we don't have games to play...

Honestly no one its talking about long term progression.  However the core of the issue is this, you have players that will have run instances 30 times in 2 months and get tired of the same instance.  Or they are level 50 in 2 weeks then being at end game, not wanting to raid or get on a gear treadmill. 

Truth is this, fewer and fewer people want Raid based progression (as much as I personally love it and as much as I still do it)  also another truth is LFG has made the game over all too convenient. 

As much as people say they love the LFG tool seriously does anyone think how burnt out people have become running instances over and over again?  People say they love instances, I know I do however how many times can a person run an instance before they no longer have the interest to?  This is a major problem for themepark games.  Just like in SWTOR with having to level on the same Planets over and over again.  It gets boring.  I had a more enjoyable time in WoW leveling because I could go to 3 or 4 zones and see different content.  Yes in today’s MMO world we need a LFG tool, however it does not need to be Cross Server and so what if you wait in queue for an hour.  No need to run the same instance 30 times in 2 months.  You will get bored and no longer want to play.   Why do you think EQNEXT is talking up its Sandbox game?  Why do you think they are talking about having something else to level than just combat skills?  LOTRO, SWTOR, WOW, RIFT really are the same ride just done in a different way.

Raid based progression everyone takes as long term progression.  True, in the old days, not so much now however games are trying to GATE this progression to make it last longer.  Well if this was 1 option to progress and let’s say another was to go do UO like Treasure hunting.  Hey it’s something different that the same instances over and over.  What about a UO like Champion Spawn?  These are an old feature that well has not been placed in today’s MMO genera that could involve a more content rich environment.  What about Rift like Planar Attunements or UO type power scrolls that let you progress your skills beyond 100 points. 

Yes we need to have longer content than our current progression.  However it does not mean long term progression.  Honestly if people think MMO hoping is a good thing just to keep away from long term progression you will see more and more people stop playing MMOS.  For example FFXIV is making it so you can level all classes on 1 character.  You just have to take the time to level them if you want.  Guess what your first 2 or 3 may or may not be easy it’s up to you.  After these 2 or 3 you can choose to do the other X amount if you wish.  You are not capped at level 50 and need to create a new character to progress in another class, or PVP or Raid to progress.  If you want to you can start a new skill and level it. Yes past point C its slower and longer term however so what if you want to do it you should be allowed to. 

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1233

5/03/13 2:34:26 PM#193
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
 

More things to do = more things for different people to find fun....did that really need to be explained? What I find fun may be completely different than what you find fun. If a game has more things to do in it, chances are it will have something we both find fun, even if its different activities. I really don;t understand how this can be debated lol

No .. more boring things .. are not fun.

Examples. In EQ, you can stare at a spellbook. You can wait 20 min on a boat. Few wants those. They took some of that out. So more is not better.

 

/Sigh...cuz im referring to staring at spell books right?

Ill politely bow out of this discussion before I get troll baited further

Not in particular, but you did say "More things to do = more things for different people to find fun", which is obviously not true because there are a lot of "things to do" is boring to many.

Staring at a spellbook is a good example. Do you think WOW should implement "staring at a spellbook" just in the name of having "more things to do".

 

I know full well I am getting trolled here, but I will slightly bite.....I can say im referring to "activities", and you will just rpely that ppl can interprate staring at a spell book as an "activity"...and this will go in circles without you acknowledging the point.

BTW, your forum posts are the most entertaining to read. You are honestly one of the smartest and entertaining posters on this site. The jumps in meaning you take are turly masterfull, and i am dead serious about this lol.

Activites? How about clicking on a rock again, again, and again to increase your strength little by little? How about running in circles to unlock a box. They are all activities, but not necessarily fun.

BTW, thank you for your kind words. It is nice to be appreciated, even if not agreed upon. And please feel free to disagree, and debate, as long as we use civil language.

2 part question:

Whats an endgame activity you consider fun?

Do you like endgame raiding?

nariusseldon, still waiting for your 2 answers pretty please.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19143

 
OP  5/03/13 6:00:58 PM#194
Originally posted by doodphace
 

2 part question:

Whats an endgame activity you consider fun?

Do you like endgame raiding?

1) Combat (the mechanics has to be fun, of course). Playing/Experimenting with build variety. Optimizing gear (meta-game). Buying & selling gear. Becoming more powerful, in general.

2) No. Use to be in a top (server-wise, not world-wise) wow raiding guild for a while. Too much work. Too much commitment. I want to play a game, not work.

 

  doodphace

Elite Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 1233

5/03/13 6:14:27 PM#195
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
 

2 part question:

Whats an endgame activity you consider fun?

Do you like endgame raiding?

1) Combat (the mechanics has to be fun, of course). Playing/Experimenting with build variety. Optimizing gear (meta-game). Buying & selling gear. Becoming more powerful, in general.

2) No. Use to be in a top (server-wise, not world-wise) wow raiding guild for a while. Too much work. Too much commitment. I want to play a game, not work.

 


Becoming more powerful at endgame and experiment build diverity.....how, and to do what with?

Your RL dodge rating must be through the roof lol

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19143

 
OP  5/05/13 6:21:32 PM#196
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by doodphace
 

2 part question:

Whats an endgame activity you consider fun?

Do you like endgame raiding?

1) Combat (the mechanics has to be fun, of course). Playing/Experimenting with build variety. Optimizing gear (meta-game). Buying & selling gear. Becoming more powerful, in general.

2) No. Use to be in a top (server-wise, not world-wise) wow raiding guild for a while. Too much work. Too much commitment. I want to play a game, not work.

 


Becoming more powerful at endgame and experiment build diverity.....how, and to do what with?

Your RL dodge rating must be through the roof lol

uh? Have you actually played any progression-based RPG?

"how" to become more powerful ... get more, and better gear

"how" to experiment build diversity ... do you really need an explanation? Respec, pick different set of skills (and gear to go with), go farm, check efficiency and whether it is fun ... lots of people are doing it. Look up some youtube video.

"to do what with" .. obviously ..kill stuff. We are talking about modern combat-focused RPGs, are we not?

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