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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Is All PVP Still Restricted To Cyrodiil? If It Is Im Not Buying This Game

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165 posts found
  Mouls

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/08
Posts: 84

4/28/13 5:37:59 PM#41
Originally posted by HighMarshal

Has any full open world PvP games ever survived? Most crash and burn after release, while the rest slowly fade into........

Oblivion!

UO,EVE,Lineage I&II, Shadowbane done well for a time.

 

OP:

There is no 'risk vs reward' in TESO, neither 'Territorial Control Warfare' so there is nothing to justify OWPVP,implementing it would be idiocy thats because there is only RvR wich works like a 'placeholder'

  karat76

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/22/06
Posts: 1011

Greatest threat to society is letting casualties of puberty reproduce.

4/28/13 5:51:46 PM#42
They have already stated pvp will be in Cyrodill. There was a mention about being able to go to a level 50 version of the other factions areas but I believe you would be phased so no farming the newbies.
  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4101

4/28/13 7:26:06 PM#43
Originally posted by Mouls
Originally posted by HighMarshal

Has any full open world PvP games ever survived? Most crash and burn after release, while the rest slowly fade into........

Oblivion!

UO,EVE,Lineage I&II, Shadowbane done well for a time.

 

OP:

There is no 'risk vs reward' neither 'Territorial Control Warfare' so there is nothing to justify OWPVP in TESO,implementing it would be idiocy thats because there is only RvR.

Why cant they just put it because its fun and make the world feel more alive

  Mouls

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/08
Posts: 84

4/28/13 8:18:24 PM#44
Originally posted by tkreep
Originally posted by Mouls
Originally posted by HighMarshal

Has any full open world PvP games ever survived? Most crash and burn after release, while the rest slowly fade into........

Oblivion!

UO,EVE,Lineage I&II, Shadowbane done well for a time.

 

OP:

There is no 'risk vs reward' neither 'Territorial Control Warfare' so there is nothing to justify OWPVP in TESO,implementing it would be idiocy thats because there is only RvR.

Why cant they just put it because its fun and make the world feel more alive

Because the game was not designed for that,

TESO was designed(just like GW2 )to have players in the open world to cooperate instead of killing each other. 

  Vendac

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 39

4/29/13 2:56:44 PM#45

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Wow never had "meaningful open world pvp"

Sacrilege ...   How dare you speak ill of the mighty Blizzard?

Originally posted by stragen001
OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

You cant fix stupid - Ron White

  Grixxitt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 556

5/01/13 10:46:01 AM#46
Originally posted by Vendac

Originally posted by stragen001
OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

 

Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3430

5/01/13 11:11:55 AM#47
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Vendac

Originally posted by stragen001
OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

 

Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

This is much like no smoking laws. When your freedom to smoke gets in the way of me not smoking. Sorry smoker put it out. Same with PvP. This model is designed to keep PvPers killing people who want to PvP. How is that unfair? The AvA map has all flavors of PvP, group, solo, raids, PvE (quests and dungeons) where PvP can happen at any time. If you really wana go kill low level players then your not a real PvPer and this is not the game for you.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

5/01/13 11:21:25 AM#48
Originally posted by Grixxitt
Originally posted by Vendac

Originally posted by stragen001
OP - In answer to your unwritten question - No, you wont be able to Gank teh Newbs

So true.  About 10% of the people that want full open PvP are actually good players looking for a good fight.  The rest are just bads farming the noobs.

So in your scenario the many are farming the...none? What?

 

Its pretty pathetic to see people believe so heartily in restricting how other people decide to play.

What is truly pathetic is people that don't realize an MMO is not just about them and that what they do affects someone else's enjoyment.

In MMOs yeah, some people are ignorant enough with their cheats, hacks and griefing that they have to be restricted. Anyone who has ever played an open world PvP game where ganking is possible knows damn well that there are always some people camping low level quest hubs and ganking those 50 levels below them...always.

Some developers--Arenanet and Zenimax for example--know that this has always been the way so they decided to segregate PvP and PvE. If that alienates the anti social jerks who get their jollies out of griefing, so be it. They're willing to make do without their money.

There are assholes who play MMOs and even the most hardcore full loot ffa PvP MMOs sometimes have to step in and "restrict how other people decide to play." Want an example? Here you go: http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7353/Darkfalls-Disgusting-HOGGs.html

 

  Tindale111

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/21/12
Posts: 184

5/01/13 11:26:33 AM#49
personally iprefer the way its done in wow and eq2 zone in for pvp i know there are a lot who enjoy pvp i do as well but the majority of the time i want to do the quests or harvest etc i believe the area in Elder scrolls for pvp is going to be pretty huge so should be enough for everyone and one more point in most big named mmos their was always more PvE servers than PvP and also tho cant be compared to much to their rpgs oblivion /morrowind skyrim etc they were (to me anyway) all about exploring anyway if you want all pvp go for a game like darkfall where the complaints all seem to be about ganking at the moment
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/01/13 11:32:34 AM#50
Real open world pvp games dont have quest hubs.

I think its important to distinguish between a 90% pve game where they just flag some servers for pvp and may Include some instanced match pvp - e.g. wow

And REAL ffa pvp games that are designed for ffa pvp - e.g. eve.

If course people run around killing noobs for shits and giggles in your wow type games. That's because the pvp us utterly pointless.

There's no economic driver like in your eve and uo style games

There's no realm pride / shared risk of your rvr games like daoc and planetside(1)

Mind I don't think TESO will fall in the later category as as far as I can tell there us no shared risk, it will be semi pointless like gw2 WvW.
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3430

5/01/13 11:51:17 AM#51
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Real open world pvp games dont have quest hubs.

I think its important to distinguish between a 90% pve game where they just flag some servers for pvp and may Include some instanced match pvp - e.g. wow

And REAL ffa pvp games that are designed for ffa pvp - e.g. eve.

If course people run around killing noobs for shits and giggles in your wow type games. That's because the pvp us utterly pointless.

There's no economic driver like in your eve and uo style games

There's no realm pride / shared risk of your rvr games like daoc and planetside(1)

Mind I don't think TESO will fall in the later category as as far as I can tell there us no shared risk, it will be semi pointless like gw2 WvW.

So far your winning of your conflict will get a buff that makes you more powerful and you need to be part of that conflict to get the buffs. Also there is a Mega-dungeon they are adding that you only have access to if your conflict is wining the conflict in some way. Not sure how but only the winning side can zone into the Mega-dungeon. I hope it will be like Darkness Falls where if your inside and the other faction gets access you dont get kicked out. Used to have a lot of fun with that with my rogue. 

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

5/01/13 11:53:57 AM#52

I don't disagree that WOW PvP servers are just a kludge but the type of griefing I described: ganking players who have zero chance against you when they're minding their own business happens in all. Substitute "resource node" for quest hub and it makes no difference.

WHat is amazing to me is that in the games where griefing is made possible by the game's ruleset, very few developers provide real disincentives to discourage griefing. All it would take is hefty financial, experience or hostile elite NPC penalties to make the idiots behave.

It's like we want to pretend that in MMOs anarchy works when we know damn well it never works in real life. Deterents are needed in MMOs even more than in real life since as we all know, anonymous people in the safety of their own home tend to behave much worse in the digital world than they would ever have the balls to do in real life.

The next best thing to deterents if you don't know how or don't want to do it properly, is segregation...which is what we have here.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/01/13 11:58:04 AM#53
There won't be a darkness falls. Entitled pve types will whine too much.

There can't be the equivelent of relics, or if there Is they are pointless as you can just teleport to a phase where your faction owns relics. Again this wouldn't happen due to while from pveers anyway.

Its an impossible thing to do with an mmo these days unless you completely avoid all the pre launch hype and just drop it on people. If daoc launched today, beta forums would be full of whining raiders going "let me get this right, to be at my best for raiding I'm reliant on pvpers to go out and grab these relics".

Modern gamers don't want that, they come from a me generation they don't get the concept of everyone on the same side working towards the same goals, with pveers, pvpers and crafters all being cross reliant on each other.
  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3430

5/01/13 11:59:56 AM#54
Originally posted by Iselin

I don't disagree that WOW PvP servers are just a kludge but the type of griefing I described: ganking players who have zero chance against you when they're minding their own business happens in all. Substitute "resource node" for quest hub and it makes no difference.

WHat is amazing to me is that in the games where griefing is made possible by the game's ruleset, very few developers provide real disincentives to discourage griefing. All it would take is hefty financial, experience or hostile elite NPC penalties to make the idiots behave.

It's like we want to pretend that in MMOs anarchy works when we know damn well it never works in real life. Deterents are needed in MMOs even more than in real life since as we all know, anonymous people in the safety of their own home tend to behave much worse in the digital world than they would ever have the balls to do in real life.

The next best thing to deterents if you don't know how or don't want to do it properly, is segregation...which is what we have here.

I think its more simple then that. Ever MMO plays the % game of who they want to cater to as to win their money. In a hardcore PvP game like Lineage 2, some jurk killing lowbies does not matter to the lowbies as they are hardcore PvPers so wont quit. Most Lineage 2 guilds had members who lived to go kill the level 30 guys picking on the level 10 chars. Kinda brings the community together. Are they jurks? Yup but its not so impacting in every game. Now with TES this would be a huge mistake as a lot TES fans wana PvE and come to a game like this for that. So a few jurks upsetting players is a bigger deal and the faction lock works well for that. 

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3430

5/01/13 12:02:46 PM#55
Originally posted by ShakyMo
There won't be a darkness falls. Entitled pve types will whine too much.

There can't be the equivelent of relics, or if there Is they are pointless as you can just teleport to a phase where your faction owns relics. Again this wouldn't happen due to while from pveers anyway.

Its an impossible thing to do with an mmo these days unless you completely avoid all the pre launch hype and just drop it on people. If daoc launched today, beta forums would be full of whining raiders going "let me get this right, to be at my best for raiding I'm reliant on pvpers to go out and grab these relics".

Modern gamers don't want that, they come from a me generation they don't get the concept of everyone on the same side working towards the same goals, with pveers, pvpers and crafters all being cross reliant on each other.

Watched a youtube video on it last week. Press guy was given time with the game and talked about what he could. He said a dev told him about a mega dungeon being added that the factions get to fight over by who is winning the AvA war. I will see if I can find it. Guy laughed because they called it a mega-dungeon and everything in this game seems to be about mega this and that.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/01/13 12:02:58 PM#56
Iselin
You said it resource nodes.

There is a point to ganking in a eve type game. You get access to the resource, plus anything that guy had gathered before hand.

Most players in such games are looking for a big pay off for the risk they themselves take by going out into nulsec or equivelent. No point drawing attention to yourself by killing small fry for pennies.

If course there are idiot corps that just zerg high sec and stuff. But they are a minority, and too be fair they sometimes help the game by giving everyone else someone to collectively hate.
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7195

5/01/13 12:03:14 PM#57
I here you OP. Cyrodiil will have to be the most EPIC thing ever created in the mmo genre for the game to work for this pvpr.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/01/13 12:06:39 PM#58
Nan
No doubt there will be bonuses and stuff from ava

But it will be like gw2, the bonuses will effect pvp only, because
1 pveers will whine
2 you can hop shards anyway

Likewise there won't be exclusive crafting stuff in ava either, there will be a pve route to the same resource.

And likewise pvpers won't be reliant on.pveers for resources like from dragon raids.

It's the way modern mmos work, every little group in their own little island.

It's the wow legacy.
  Teh_Axi

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 405

5/01/13 12:08:17 PM#59
Originally posted by Saxonblade

Tell the people at blizz that, it was in fact the removal of meaningful OW PVP that cost blizz many subs. OW PvP in Vanilla WoW was some of the best OW PvP in any game.

How was zerging around tarren mill meaningful? LOL

I'll give you something though, its the closest any game has got to succesful PvPvE. 

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

5/01/13 12:11:31 PM#60
Originally posted by ShakyMo

Modern gamers don't want that, they come from a me generation they don't get the concept of everyone on the same side working towards the same goals, with pveers, pvpers and crafters all being cross reliant on each other.

Call me a hopeless optimist if you want but I think modern players can learn to behave in new ways. All it would take is a developer really thinking it through and providing just the right amount of global benefit.

To use your raiding example... what if in addition to relics boosting your abilities, a succesful completion of a PvE raid had a similar global benefit? Then those raiders wouldn't just be seen as a bunch of elitist jerks--they'd be seen as skilfull players who make us all better.

That's just a simplistic example I pulled out my a.. But you get the idea.

There are many systems in MMOs that have been neglected in favour of all the whiz-bang sexy graphics and combat shit. NPC's lack of lives and sophisticated AI is one that, rumor has it, EQ Next is tackling head on. Likewise, things that encourage grouping and working together toward a common goal are still as primitive as they were in the 1990's. All they can think of is forcing us into it or giving up--both of which are dumb ideas in social games we play for fun.

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