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General Discussion  » Wildstar ZAM interview - PVP stats are in the game

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44 posts found
  Pixel_Jockey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/21/13
Posts: 173

4/25/13 8:40:10 AM#21
Originally posted by bcbully
You thought there wouldn't be? 90% of this game follows WoW design.

A fella can have dreams can't he? lol...

  Grohmm

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 7

4/25/13 2:52:19 PM#22

You don't remember WoW vanilla if you don't want to have pvp stats...

I was really well geared at the time, more than 95% of WoW players. In PvP, I killed almost everyone, the same geared as me, skill etc..., and the poor random players. They couldn't do anything against PvE players who liked PvP, it's was ridiculous.

At the time of Zul Gurub, there was a trinket that take 2 fully month to have, with a great investment in materials. When i had this trinket, it gave me a free skill in my opening cycle in PvP, And this one trinket makes a huge difference. With PvP stats, the trinket would have certainly been less effective.

Seriously, we could kill opposite faction member who doesn't had a great PvE stuff in two shots... For me, it was absolutely perfect but i could understand the frustration of the non-PvE players.

So why do you want to have PvP stuff with no PvP stats? And worst of all, the normalized gear??? This stupidity for casuals from GW2 that totally ruined the PvP.. I've never seen a feature like this before in a MMO and it was awful. It killed the purpose of making PvP. The fun of PvP is not the only thing MMO players are looking for in this games.. The progression is the chore of a MMORPG, you really have to understand this. You don't begin a MMO with all the stuff and stats and talents and everything. You start from ashes, and progress. You have to invest time in the game in order to be the best. And the more you are skilled, the faster you get geared. Like real life with promotion at work :)!

And Carbine is totally right to listen to hardcore player and follow this path, because casual players want everything with no effort, and it litteraly ruins a game. With this path, WS is going to last over the years and have a great amount of great players.

  udon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1615

4/25/13 2:59:29 PM#23
Originally posted by ozbaab
I'm generally against PvP stats since it means you'll often get raped when trying to quest. But, since Carbines view of creating WIldstar is extremely competitive, it doesn't surprise me. And since I'm more of a PvE'er, I don't really care!

There was no way to introduce really difficult PVE content with a large gear progression system and not have some form of sperate gear stats.  If they hadn't done this than one of the two progressions paths would have had a shortcut around it via the other path or one of the two activites would have been at a signifncant disadvantage to the people at the top tier of the other.

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

4/25/13 3:28:17 PM#24

Luckily I'm more of a faction vs faction(wvw  or rvr in other games) and pve type player. Though honestly I believe anything competitive far as PVP goes should be skilled based, that's just my opinion.

I don't like battleground pvp or something that is most commonly decided by who has the best gear, rather than who has the right skill set ups, who was usuing the right movement, teamwork, and  etc. Not by who had enough time to grind pve stuff just to be great in pvp.

I don't mind it for open world pvp, cause I don't do pvp servers for that reason, now faction vs faction, that's fine by me for this game, it being gear based. Course I doubt that has anything to do with PVP stats, only the battlegrounds or w/e I belive, so i won't be playing those.

What makes it slightly better is the combat mechanics, I believe it is a hybrid like GW2, and the way the hits are, like you can dodge attacks and block. That there makes it much better for pvp stats IMO. Still I won't be playing that part but eh it's cool.

Still hope this game isn't P2P.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5909

4/25/13 3:30:00 PM#25
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by ozbaab
I'm generally against PvP stats since it means you'll often get raped when trying to quest. But, since Carbines view of creating WIldstar is extremely competitive, it doesn't surprise me. And since I'm more of a PvE'er, I don't really care!

There was no way to introduce really difficult PVE content with a large gear progression system and not have some form of sperate gear stats.  If they hadn't done this than one of the two progressions paths would have had a shortcut around it via the other path or one of the two activites would have been at a signifncant disadvantage to the people at the top tier of the other.

That makes no sense.  There are supposed to be multiple progression paths in this game according to the marketing spiel they've been pumping out.  You know, the optional raids, crafting is viable, adventuring, questing, pvp, etc.  Was that all just bs?

This is sounding a lot more like Rift everyday and that's not a good thing.

Curse you AquaScum!

  udon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1615

4/25/13 3:34:49 PM#26
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by ozbaab
I'm generally against PvP stats since it means you'll often get raped when trying to quest. But, since Carbines view of creating WIldstar is extremely competitive, it doesn't surprise me. And since I'm more of a PvE'er, I don't really care!

There was no way to introduce really difficult PVE content with a large gear progression system and not have some form of sperate gear stats.  If they hadn't done this than one of the two progressions paths would have had a shortcut around it via the other path or one of the two activites would have been at a signifncant disadvantage to the people at the top tier of the other.

That makes no sense.  There are supposed to be multiple progression paths in this game according to the marketing spiel they've been pumping out.  You know, the optional raids, crafting is viable, adventuring, questing, pvp, etc.  Was that all just bs?

This is sounding a lot more like Rift everyday and that's not a good thing.

The day they talked about cattering to the 1% raid crowd I realized all those other things where really not going to matter.  Sure you might be able to earn decent gear soloing, crafting, doing small group content or via PVP but raiding will be the top of the food chain gear wise.  This game will be no diffierent than WoW, Rift, or EQ2 in that regard.

I will either raid in Wildstar or I won't play the game.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5909

4/25/13 4:05:17 PM#27
Originally posted by Grohmm

You don't remember WoW vanilla if you don't want to have pvp stats...

I was really well geared at the time, more than 95% of WoW players. In PvP, I killed almost everyone, the same geared as me, skill etc..., and the poor random players. They couldn't do anything against PvE players who liked PvP, it's was ridiculous.

At the time of Zul Gurub, there was a trinket that take 2 fully month to have, with a great investment in materials. When i had this trinket, it gave me a free skill in my opening cycle in PvP, And this one trinket makes a huge difference. With PvP stats, the trinket would have certainly been less effective.

Seriously, we could kill opposite faction member who doesn't had a great PvE stuff in two shots... For me, it was absolutely perfect but i could understand the frustration of the non-PvE players.

So why do you want to have PvP stuff with no PvP stats? And worst of all, the normalized gear??? This stupidity for casuals from GW2 that totally ruined the PvP.. I've never seen a feature like this before in a MMO and it was awful. It killed the purpose of making PvP. The fun of PvP is not the only thing MMO players are looking for in this games.. The progression is the chore of a MMORPG, you really have to understand this. You don't begin a MMO with all the stuff and stats and talents and everything. You start from ashes, and progress. You have to invest time in the game in order to be the best. And the more you are skilled, the faster you get geared. Like real life with promotion at work :)!

And Carbine is totally right to listen to hardcore player and follow this path, because casual players want everything with no effort, and it litteraly ruins a game. With this path, WS is going to last over the years and have a great amount of great players.

GW1 has normalized gear and has a great pvp instanced/battleground pvp system.  In fact it's probably one of the best pvp systems of its type.

Rift on the other hand went with separate gear and it hasn't worked well for them at all.  WoW is a horrible example to use for the basis of any specific design decision.  They can do what other games can't and get away with it.  The inertia they have in their following means they get to play by different rules because people will remain dedicated despite unwanted changes.

Disparate gear discourages players from engaging in all content in an open manner.  It is a mechanism of the gear treadmill to keep players from playing longer without actually accomplishing anything.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5909

4/25/13 4:06:29 PM#28
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by ozbaab
I'm generally against PvP stats since it means you'll often get raped when trying to quest. But, since Carbines view of creating WIldstar is extremely competitive, it doesn't surprise me. And since I'm more of a PvE'er, I don't really care!

There was no way to introduce really difficult PVE content with a large gear progression system and not have some form of sperate gear stats.  If they hadn't done this than one of the two progressions paths would have had a shortcut around it via the other path or one of the two activites would have been at a signifncant disadvantage to the people at the top tier of the other.

That makes no sense.  There are supposed to be multiple progression paths in this game according to the marketing spiel they've been pumping out.  You know, the optional raids, crafting is viable, adventuring, questing, pvp, etc.  Was that all just bs?

This is sounding a lot more like Rift everyday and that's not a good thing.

The day they talked about cattering to the 1% raid crowd I realized all those other things where really not going to matter.  Sure you might be able to earn decent gear soloing, crafting, doing small group content or via PVP but raiding will be the top of the food chain gear wise.  This game will be no diffierent than WoW, Rift, or EQ2 in that regard.

I will either raid in Wildstar or I won't play the game.

I think that is a very honest and truthful assessment of the game.  They're not being very forthright in this regard.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Alders

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1729

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

4/25/13 4:08:40 PM#29
PVP gear and stats is terrible.
  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

4/25/13 4:19:54 PM#30
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Originally posted by 4bsolute

Just created a topic on their forums: http://wildstar-central.com/index.php?threads/the-i-am-against-pvp-stats-thread.2800/

Please vote there if you are against it. Devs are constantly checking this forum!

I am against it, which should be obvious for everyone else.

And your poll is 50/50 which is exaclty what is to be expected. PvE players don't want to have to PvP to get PvP gear.

One more thing people don't get: PvP gear's accessibiliy isn't just based on time in the game - it's based on elo rating (skill). You still have to be decent to get the best stuff.  WildStar's matchmaking will only put you up against opponents of similar elo rating so you're not going to going up agaist the best of the best anyway, unless you're good. But at least you won't be good becasue of that awesome sword drop you got in a raid - you'll be good because you can actually PvP.

Doesn't look 50/50 to me. 

 

I don't pvp so I don't really care, but I can see the argument.  Think it would make more sense to just have an equalized set of stats or gear when you go into a pvp map

  achesoma

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 960

4/25/13 4:27:27 PM#31
Yay, double gear grind.  Disappointing but was expected.  As if there needs to be more fragmentation between pvers and pvpers which is exactly what separate stats do.  It's like devs are trying push players into a certain playtype.  "Just stay in your area and don't come out!"  I miss the days when there was no such thing as a "pvp stat" in MMOs. 

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2700

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

4/25/13 4:51:07 PM#32
Originally posted by DeniZg

Link

I'm very much against this. What's your opinion?

Terrible idea! There should be three endgame means to obtain the best gear: PvE (raiding), PvP (rank points) and crafting. The only difference between the three sets should be appearance and/or color. The only thing raiding should get you over PvP and crafting are raid boss trophies to boost your stats when you place them in your home. For PvP over crafting and raiding should be PK trophies with different but equally beneficial stat boost. And crafting over raiding and PvP should have Masterpieces that are equally difficult to create.

 

This way there can be distinction between the 3 paths while keeping the ability to draw players from each pool of playing styles a viable option. This ridiculous balancing act for two playing styles (minus crafting because it always gets the short end of the stick) is fallacy and devs might as well be chasing the dragon trying to keep up.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  tokini

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/07
Posts: 345

4/25/13 5:13:22 PM#33
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by DeniZg

Link

I'm very much against this. What's your opinion?

Terrible idea! There should be three endgame means to obtain the best gear: PvE (raiding), PvP (rank points) and crafting. The only difference between the three sets should be appearance and/or color. The only thing raiding should get you over PvP and crafting are raid boss trophies to boost your stats when you place them in your home. For PvP over crafting and raiding should be PK trophies with different but equally beneficial stat boost. And crafting over raiding and PvP should have Masterpieces that are equally difficult to create.

 

This way there can be distinction between the 3 paths while keeping the ability to draw players from each pool of playing styles a viable option. This ridiculous balancing act for two playing styles (minus crafting because it always gets the short end of the stick) is fallacy and devs might as well be chasing the dragon trying to keep up.

the issue always becomes time spent.  raids tend to have weeekly lockouts, so that limits the speed at which the raider gets geared. the pvper needs some level of 'renown' or badges to earn, generally. the crafter is limited by how quickly he can gather the materials, level up the craft itself.

i personally like the idea that a set of 'best in slot' gear would come from a multitude of sources, the helm from a raid, the sword from a crafter, the trinket from pvp, the cape from a quest...etc. etc.

how do you balance this? do you limit how many items a pvper can buy per week? do you add week long cooldowns to the craft recipes that create best in slot items? or do you remove raid lockouts so they can increase the speed of aquiring gear? or do you just roll with it, let the guy that didnt sleep for 2 weeks and gets all best pvp items out gear a person who has been raiding for months, or the guy who has spent time and ingame cash to aquire all the best craft items?

  tokini

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/07
Posts: 345

4/25/13 5:17:45 PM#34
Originally posted by Grohmm

...The progression is the chore of a MMORPG, you really have to understand this...

freudian slip...?  :)

  Fdzzaigl

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2111

4/25/13 5:24:13 PM#35

Doesn't surprise me, but not a fan of it either.

It can be an effective way of balancing PvP against PvE, but it's also a very unelegant way imo.

Any new player to PvP will get absolutely raped by more veteran or more hardcore players, regardless of skill and solely because of a gear advantage.

Things like a damage / healing reduction when engaged against other players, or an equal playing field like in GW2's sPvP play are far superior ways of balancing PvP imo.

Even WoW is starting to see this, as their next patch will remove resilience from gear and give all players an equal base amount of resilience (which can still be improved by gems). PvP power will remain in the game.

Originally posted by tokini

 

the issue always becomes time spent.  raids tend to have weeekly lockouts, so that limits the speed at which the raider gets geared. the pvper needs some level of 'renown' or badges to earn, generally. the crafter is limited by how quickly he can gather the materials, level up the craft itself.

i personally like the idea that a set of 'best in slot' gear would come from a multitude of sources, the helm from a raid, the sword from a crafter, the trinket from pvp, the cape from a quest...etc. etc.

how do you balance this? do you limit how many items a pvper can buy per week? do you add week long cooldowns to the craft recipes that create best in slot items? or do you remove raid lockouts so they can increase the speed of aquiring gear? or do you just roll with it, let the guy that didnt sleep for 2 weeks and gets all best pvp items out gear a person who has been raiding for months, or the guy who has spent time and ingame cash to aquire all the best craft items?

Assuming PvP gear acquisition will be based on a certain currency, that kind of thing can be regulated fairly easily as well. By simply implementing weekly caps on currency gains for example.

Personally I'm a fan of currency based systems for PvE as well. Tired and sick of RNG when looting.

 

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  GoldenTiger2

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/09
Posts: 39

4/25/13 7:11:06 PM#36
Originally posted by neorandom

they need to stop having special "pvp" and "pve" stats.

 

just have your end game gear, and let people get it via pvp and pve, if someone doesnt want to do one or the other this impacts them 0, if someone does both, again 0 impact.

 

its the only way to have balance since theres no throwing anything off by having different stat sets.

 

 

I agree... DAOC and other games had it right. Maybe make it so pvp-obtained gear tends to have more of X stat and PVE more of Y stat but a hard delineation is just poor game design.

  JoePesci

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 12

4/29/13 9:44:15 PM#37

[quote]We’re not focusing on open-world PvP for launch.[/quote]

(How do I make something look like a quote in this forum?)

 

This is what bothers me a lot. She didn't explicitely say that world PvP won't be possible, but I assume the worst, as it's a trend with new mmos to be extra care-bear. Though according to other information, there will be PvP servers, but even on those there will be zones where players will be "immune" to PvP if they don't flag themselves.

I just want to be able attack anyone, including my own faction if I choose to. What the heck is the problem? Why do we have so much "god-modes" and invulnerabilities in these games?

From an in-game perspective, what exactly is the reason or explanation for not being able to attack other players? It just doesn't seem right. They're breaking immersion. Stop PvP immunity, or make a PK server on top of a PvP server that has absolutely no safe zones at all.

  silvermember

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/12
Posts: 508

5/02/13 11:09:22 AM#38

Reading more and more aboot this game, it is screaming p2p. There is no real reason to have seperate PvP and PvE stats other than to artificially extend "progression".

This is beginning to look like a game I should avoid. I love PvP but that doesn't mean I enjoy the need to have 2 separate sets of armor. 

 

  Instigator-Jones

Elite Member

Joined: 2/07/13
Posts: 481

5/02/13 11:15:26 AM#39
I don't understand how it's 'screaming to be P2P'? They kinda hinted when they introduced housing "Drop a little cash and get a plot of your own" (not a direct quote but very similar). I have a feeling all the housing will be cash shop packs and the play will be from a B2P model. This is what I hear screaming, not another monthly sub/rent.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

5/02/13 11:17:12 AM#40
Basicly
Wow in space with instanced housing and gw2 style combat then.
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