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Hardware  » AMD Radeon HD 7990 launches. World doesn't care.

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86 posts found
  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1606

4/24/13 2:51:30 PM#21
Originally posted by Undeadly
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Muke
Now I definately want one.



It has three red fans!

 

 Now you see the issue with the red fans? Well they didn't go ahead and put flames on them. Because we all know flames make things go faster. :)

LOL

 

Don't lauch, my graphic cards have jetfighter prints on the fan casings, so that gives it a extra boost!

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2588

4/24/13 2:54:48 PM#22
Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by Undeadly
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Muke
Now I definately want one.



It has three red fans!

 

 Now you see the issue with the red fans? Well they didn't go ahead and put flames on them. Because we all know flames make things go faster. :)

LOL

 

Don't lauch, my graphic cards have jetfighter prints on the fan casings, so that gives it a extra boost!

 That extra throttle gives you the edge you need in combat when flying a fighter plane in BF3?


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1606

4/24/13 2:59:32 PM#23
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 That extra throttle gives you the edge you need in combat when flying a fighter plane in BF3?

I am one of the few not playing BF3 because frankly, I hate Cod and BF3...I rather play Doom/UT type sci fi games.

Crawling up to a sniper and empty 2 pistol magazines into someone's back of the head, only to witness him standing up, turn around and kill me with 1 knife stroke wasn't my thing. :)

But back to the graphics thing, I had my best experiences with ATI cards, every Nvidia-and other cards died on me rather quickly.

 

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2588

4/24/13 3:03:42 PM#24
Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 That extra throttle gives you the edge you need in combat when flying a fighter plane in BF3?

I am one of the few not playing BF3 because frankly, I hate Cod and BF3...I rather play Doom/UT type sci fi games.

Crawling up to a sniper and empty 2 pistol magazines into someone's back of the head, only to witness him standing up, turn around and kill me with 1 knife stroke wasn't my thing. :)

But back to the graphics thing, I had my best experiences with ATI cards, every Nvidia-and other cards died on me rather quickly.

 

 I can't say that I've ever experienced a card dying on me. I don't have a fanboy preference either. I just find the one that's the best for my buck. However, assuming that the newest cards on the market are going to be the best thing in the world will be a wake up call for many people. Moore's law is an actual fact and computer technology doubles every 18 months. So that $1,000.00 USD you spent on the Titan card was essentially wasted; because there's going to be a card twice as good 18 months from now.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  cura

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 864

4/24/13 3:07:42 PM#25
Originally posted by Horusra
I do not think I will ever buy an AMD again.  I got one now after only using NVIDIA and I hate it.  Issues with games.  Display drivers failing.  Look at the site and see it is a common problem that is suppose to be fixed...never get fixed.  I will pay the extra for Nvidia from now on.  I might have a dud for a card, but it has turned me off from the company.

Same. I had some AMD processors and ATI VGAs but i prefer Intels for overclockability and Nvidias for driver support. No reason to go cheap

  Boudewijns

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/26/04
Posts: 123

4/24/13 3:14:02 PM#26
i always used nvidia, switched to ati once and had to replace it 3-4 months later so i stick to nvidia

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2588

4/24/13 3:16:44 PM#27
I've had my 5880 for about 3 years now and I've yet to have it kill-over on me. I guess I'm lucky? I've also had the same harddrive for ~8 years and my Nvidia graphics card before my 5880 is sitting my my closet (because it still works).


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/24/13 3:19:03 PM#28
I'm the opposite, stuck to AMD with cards as I've had two nvidias burn out on me.

The prices of nvidias in the UK don't help either. e.g. a 660gtx is more expensive than a 7950hd
  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1606

4/24/13 3:20:54 PM#29
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 That extra throttle gives you the edge you need in combat when flying a fighter plane in BF3?

I am one of the few not playing BF3 because frankly, I hate Cod and BF3...I rather play Doom/UT type sci fi games.

Crawling up to a sniper and empty 2 pistol magazines into someone's back of the head, only to witness him standing up, turn around and kill me with 1 knife stroke wasn't my thing. :)

But back to the graphics thing, I had my best experiences with ATI cards, every Nvidia-and other cards died on me rather quickly.

 

 I can't say that I've ever experienced a card dying on me. I don't have a fanboy preference either. I just find the one that's the best for my buck. However, assuming that the newest cards on the market are going to be the best thing in the world will be a wake up call for many people. Moore's law is an actual fact and computer technology doubles every 18 months. So that $1,000.00 USD you spent on the Titan card was essentially wasted; because there's going to be a card twice as good 18 months from now.

You have to step in the line at one point, because that car you want to buy is cheaper next year and for that money you can buy a better car next year.

 

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2588

4/24/13 3:25:33 PM#30
Originally posted by ShakyMo
I'm the opposite, stuck to AMD with cards as I've had two nvidias burn out on me.

The prices of nvidias in the UK don't help either. e.g. a 660gtx is more expensive than a 7950hd

 That sucks... I don't feel like spending $1,000.00 on a new "best" grahpics card anyways. Their power is not needed and if you already have a 670-690 you won't see much of a difference. You could still see a much worse outcome from upgrading to a brand new card because of the short period of time in which the card has been on the market. 

 Companies aren't always building games in mind for the highest and best hardware on the market. They aim for the mid-range hardware and try to pull as much performance from that equipment.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13314

 
OP  4/24/13 3:30:09 PM#31

This isn't even an AMD versus Nvidia issue.  Let's ignore Nvidia entirely for a moment.  Let's suppose that you want two top of the line Tahiti GPUs.  You can get a single Radeon HD 7990 for $1000.  Or for $900, you can get two of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125439

The latter will run faster because it's clocked substantially higher.  Having a lot more space to work with means you can get much better cooling for the latter, too.  And that's on top of it being cheaper.  So why would you get the 7990 again?

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13314

 
OP  4/24/13 3:34:19 PM#32
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
Originally posted by BlackLightz

One step for mankind, one more step in the endless line of GFX cards with a minor upgrade.

 

"Computer advancements double every 18 months." - Moore's Law

Moore's Law loosely says that the number of transistors will double every two years.  And over the course of the last 50 years, that's held fairly accurate to a two year doubling, not 18 months.

But just because you have twice as many transistors doesn't mean that you can double your performance.  Power is a big limiting factor, too, so if you want to stay within a fixed TDP, it takes about four years to double your performance.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2588

4/24/13 3:36:30 PM#33
Originally posted by Quizzical

This isn't even an AMD versus Nvidia issue.  Let's ignore Nvidia entirely for a moment.  Let's suppose that you want two top of the line Tahiti GPUs.  You can get a single Radeon HD 7990 for $1000.  Or for $900, you can get two of these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125439

The latter will run faster because it's clocked substantially higher.  Having a lot more space to work with means you can get much better cooling for the latter, too.  And that's on top of it being cheaper.  So why would you get the 7990 again?

 I personally wouldn't get any of these pieces of hardware. There's no point and it's a waste of money (even if money is no object because I'm greedy like that) I want something that has been stablized for a while and I don't see the need to shovel out $400.00 - $500.00 more dollars for hardware that's going to be bested within 18 months. In addition I don't care how well a piece of hardware benchmarks in specific lab conditions; it all correlates to how well optimized these pieces of hardware are within the software that's using them.

 Lets face it, I've given enough proof to state that something like the Titan isn't always the best piece of hardware. Sure they say it out performs specific card and sure the 7880 might slightly be better/worse in some aspects. But if I take this hardware and use it to run a program that does properly optimize the use of this hardware I won't see the benchmarking speeds they've tested. Then what?

 Well then I'm stuck with a $1,000.00 dollar piece of hardware performing at a mediocre rate or not at all for that matter.

 So I say don't even bother with the newest and best pieces of hardware. Let them sit there for 1-2 years so they drop in price then pick them up when the next best piece of hardware comes out. They're not $1,000.00 because they're expensive to make. They're $1,000.00 dollars because companies know that people will feed into the idea that these cards are "faster" and "better" than the competition.

 I'm not saying that these cards don't have the specifications to back up their hardware. I know how many CUDA cores a 690 has compared to a Titan and I know how well ATI card run. But if they don't perform well; they don't perform well.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3362

4/24/13 5:07:18 PM#34


Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
I can't say that I've ever experienced a card dying on me. I don't have a fanboy preference either. I just find the one that's the best for my buck. However, assuming that the newest cards on the market are going to be the best thing in the world will be a wake up call for many people. Moore's law is an actual fact and computer technology doubles every 18 months. So that $1,000.00 USD you spent on the Titan card was essentially wasted; because there's going to be a card twice as good 18 months from now.

By this logic, you'd never buy anything, because 18 months later, something better will inevitably come out.

People have, and will continue, to buy "top of the line", and continue to pay the privilege for having top of the line because:
a) They have the money
b) Either they need or desire that level of performance and there is no other alternative

Sure, you can wait 18 months, but you'll always be waiting 18 months for something better. If you want a product, you get the product that best fits your needs/desires, and fits your budget - sometimes that means making a compromise in one area or another, but for people with no effective budget constraints - the high profit margins on those cards are what helps to fuel the R&D for the next generation of cards, and that technology eventually winds it's way down from the "bleeding edge enthusiast with money" niche into consumer and mainstream level products.

There are people who can use as much power as a 7990, or CFX7970's, or SLI Titans can put out. There aren't many of them, and there are probably more people who wish they could use that much power but can't actually afford it, but there are people out there with the need and the money, that niche does exist. Just because you don't happen to be inside that niche doesn't eliminate it.

  uofa13l

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 31

4/24/13 5:19:24 PM#35

In the AMD vs Intel debate I get frustrated when technicals come up because appearently not everyone understands that a CPU's clock is not the dominating factor they think it is when it comes to overall CPU performance (Dont get me started on RAM clocks). Ask any independent electrical enginner that works in electronics to compare and contrast intel and amd BGA architecture and they will point out that AMD far surpasses Intel in this regard (while intel continuously churns out better clock speeds).

 

This directly correlates to the "gamers" obsession with Intel CPU's and overclocking. You can not run intel chips near their "voltage threshold" or "ceiling" without the chip quickly degrading over time. Therefore Intel reduces the preprogrammed voltage it pulls to lengthen the life of the part to meet requirements. That leaves the average computer builder/overclocker to see a huge band of unused voltage available for overclocking. Likewise AMD uses well thought out architecture (less heat generation) and can set its default voltage use to a value much closer to the voltage threshold.

 

Another thing to keep in mind when building a system is that if you go cutting edge everything you will get the performance of a slighlty above mid range PC (unless you have a lot of money to spend on some intense cooling solutions). Heat robs more people of their performance than they realize. I had two roomates a while back who built two similar systems. One was built to go SLi and the other was a single NVidia (same cards though). Amazingly enough the first game played saw better performance in the single card system. Now a big part of it was the game was not optimized for SLi or Crosslink, but the other major factor was the motherboard manufacturer put the two PCI slots for dual graphics cards dangerously close to each other (I swear there was only a 50-100 mil gap between the bottom of one card and the fan on the other card) which lead to massive heat saturation in the dual card set-up.

 

Sorry I got a little sidetracked and had more to say but I will cut it short and summarize it as this; I personally like AMD/ATI much more than Intel/NVidia because as an engineer I have much more appreciation for the hardware they produce. On the flip side I always analyze every situation independently. While I have had mostly AMD/ATI systems for the past 13 years my current system is Intel/NVidia because at the time I was shopping it was the better perfomance per dollar. Whenever you blindly follow an electronics company a CEO gets its wings because you just decided to make that 3 lb mass of grey matter (largely considered the greatest known creation in universe) useless.

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2588

4/24/13 5:33:50 PM#36
Originally posted by Ridelynn

 


Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
I can't say that I've ever experienced a card dying on me. I don't have a fanboy preference either. I just find the one that's the best for my buck. However, assuming that the newest cards on the market are going to be the best thing in the world will be a wake up call for many people. Moore's law is an actual fact and computer technology doubles every 18 months. So that $1,000.00 USD you spent on the Titan card was essentially wasted; because there's going to be a card twice as good 18 months from now.

 

By this logic, you'd never buy anything, because 18 months later, something better will inevitably come out.

People have, and will continue, to buy "top of the line", and continue to pay the privilege for having top of the line because:
a) They have the money
b) Either they need or desire that level of performance and there is no other alternative

Sure, you can wait 18 months, but you'll always be waiting 18 months for something better. If you want a product, you get the product that best fits your needs/desires, and fits your budget - sometimes that means making a compromise in one area or another, but for people with no effective budget constraints - the high profit margins on those cards are what helps to fuel the R&D for the next generation of cards, and that technology eventually winds it's way down from the "bleeding edge enthusiast with money" niche into consumer and mainstream level products.

There are people who can use as much power as a 7990, or CFX7970's, or SLI Titans can put out. There aren't many of them, and there are probably more people who wish they could use that much power but can't actually afford it, but there are people out there with the need and the money, that niche does exist. Just because you don't happen to be inside that niche doesn't eliminate it.

 No, by this logic I'd wait for the product that you spent $1,000.00 USD on and simply pay a fraction of the price.

 I'm not waiting 18 months for the next best thing; that's not what I've said. I'm waiting 18 months for the next best thing to replace the original best thing. So that I can buy the original best thing for a substantially cheaper price.

I also never stated that I couldn't afford the titan, GTX 690 or the 7990. I'm simply stating that I don't see the point in wasting exponentially more money than the product's actually worth. It's called buying smart and I'm sorry you don't think this way.

 Please go back and reread what I've written you obviously misunderstood what I've wrote.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13314

 
OP  4/24/13 5:41:19 PM#37
Originally posted by uofa13l

In the AMD vs Intel debate I get frustrated when technicals come up because appearently not everyone understands that a CPU's clock is not the dominating factor they think it is when it comes to overall CPU performance (Dont get me started on RAM clocks). Ask any independent electrical enginner that works in electronics to compare and contrast intel and amd BGA architecture and they will point out that AMD far surpasses Intel in this regard (while intel continuously churns out better clock speeds).

That hasn't been true since Conroe launched way back in 2006.  Intel has had the top performing CPU ever since then, even though AMD has sometimes had higher clock speeds.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3362

4/24/13 5:48:41 PM#38

To mince words here, it's not a matter of price at all. As you've clearly stated that you have money, and that you'd rather save that money than spend it....

So if by waiting 18 months, the price gets cut in half for Y level of performance
And in 18 months, cut in half again, for Y level of performance
And in 18 months, cut in half again, for Y level of performance

Here we are, looking 4.5 years down the road, at the same level of performance.

What cost $X dollars to begin with, now only costs $X/4, and in another 4.5 years will cost $X/16. But at the same time, newer technology can now provide a performance level of Y*(some factor).

So if you can afford $X to begin with... the only other parts of the equation are time and performance.

The real question is the ratio of $X/Y (bang for the buck, if you will)-- and of the minimum value of Y required to deliver the performance that you need or desire. And those are going to be subjective and different for everyone, based on budget and personal taste. There are those people out there for which the maximum value of Y will never be enough, and they are willing to pay for as much as they can get. You are clearly not one of those people, and that's OK - but your going about inferring that all those people are somehow inferior because they aren't looking at $X/Y, but I'm pointing out that because those people are willing to spend $X on Day 1, they are making sure that Y keeps increasing over time, rather than just ending up some stagnate "Good Enough" level which they could very easily have fell into.

  miguksaram

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/03
Posts: 827

4/24/13 5:49:10 PM#39
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

Sure, you can wait 18 months, but you'll always be waiting 18 months for something better. If you want a product, you get the product that best fits your needs/desires, and fits your budget - sometimes that means making a compromise in one area or another, but for people with no effective budget constraints - the high profit margins on those cards are what helps to fuel the R&D for the next generation of cards, and that technology eventually winds it's way down from the "bleeding edge enthusiast with money" niche into consumer and mainstream level products.

 No, by this logic I'd wait for the product that you spent $1,000.00 USD on and simply pay a fraction of the price.

 I'm not waiting 18 months for the next best thing; that's not what I've said. I'm waiting 18 months for the next best thing to replace the original best thing. So that I can buy the original best thing for a substantially cheaper price.

I also never stated that I couldn't afford the titan, GTX 690 or the 7990. I'm simply stating that I don't see the point in wasting exponentially more money than the product's actually worth. It's called buying smart and I'm sorry you don't think this way.

 Please go back and reread what I've written you obviously misunderstood what I've wrote.

I'm a bit confused as to what you mean.  Are you stating you wait to buy the current bleeding edge at the inception of the next generation in order to save money?  If so how exactly do you (meaning anyone) do that if the portion of Ridelynn's post I left isn't true?  Specifically the part about somebody has to fuel R&D via the inflated costs of current bleeding edge tech.

If you mean buying a used product 18 months down the road then your "savings" is in the form a product who's lifespan has most likely been cut down by the same amount of time.  If you are referring to buying a current bleeding edge card "new" 18 months down the road that is unlikely to be cheaper, in fact most "new" cards from older generations tend to go for MORE than they were when they released.

If you mean you will buy the current bleeding edge tech in a more easily affordable next gen card then that only happens because new bleeding edge expensive cards have released thanks to R&D that was funded by the last generations expensive top of the line cards.  I trust you see the cycle that is being laid out.

 

EDIT: Ultimately most who fund bleeding edge tech rarely actually need it, rather they just want it and can afford it (or find ways to).  

  Cleffy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/09/04
Posts: 5502

4/24/13 5:55:53 PM#40
Its still true today a little bit.  AMDs architecture is more effecient, just not utilized.  There are actually some CPU applications where AMD is the better pick like Software 3D rendering.  This is with a CPU that is a full node behind the closest competition and costs less then any competition close to its results.
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