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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What is the appeal of Arena PvP. I seriously don't get it.

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148 posts found
  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1302

 
OP  4/24/13 9:49:51 AM#141

I play on PvP Servers. The problem is that Battlegrounds are still forced on PvP Server through iten-reward incentive.

 

I understand the need for Instanced PvP on a PvE Server. However, a PvP Server, if it must still have it, should be without reward.

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/24/13 11:50:06 AM#142
Originally posted by Sulaa
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sulaa

 

It's not something what I look for in mmorpg's though.  It's odd for me. It's like putting hardcore turn-based strategy in middle of action packed fast First Person Shooter.   

That is innovation .. providing something new.

Though not all new ideas are good .. without trying, you never know. Look at Borderlands .. .putting RPG into FPS .. works perfectly. MMORPGs can use a lot of ideas from other genre.

3rd Person Arena / BG only specialized games will pull more and more players playing mostly for istanced PVP from mmorpg's anyway.   By specializing they'll be able to offer better experience, sooner or later.  Faster developer cycles and not being hold back by PVE mechanics will have it effect. It's only matter of time.       

Not that i disagree. Certainly for players who only want to do arena, a arena/BG only game is probably better. But what about those who want instanced dungeons AND arenas? There are those who like both PvE & PvP. And they may not want to level up another toon in another game.

Having both in the same MMo is a compromise. Do you want to play the same toon for different gameplay? Or do you want to do that in different games? Different people answer those questions differently.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17518

4/24/13 11:58:16 AM#143
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Horusra
open world pvp in the current form fails in mainstream because 70% is ganking.

More like 90%, but yeah.

The main thing that irks me about open world PvP is the lack of any real point, other than being a douche. Most battlegrounds or arenas have objectives or reasoning behind the conflict, wheras open world PvP is just 'hey look at that noob over there, lets kill it'.

Why would that be the natural response to meeting someone new? Totally immersion breaking. In a game with harsh PK rules it might work, with the odd assassin or law breaker, but if everyone is just a murderous ahole... whats the point?   

Well that would depend on the game.

I would agree that a good amount of open world pvp can be just "ganking" for the sake of it (which I find so deadly dull).

A lineage 2 example would be closing down a tower or hunting space so that only one clan or set of clans can use it.

Attacking a raid boss and yet taking out an enemy's attempt at stopping you by either killing them when they get to the area or killing them as they leave town.

Being attacked by one particular person in a clan and then endlessly "getting revenge" until they beg you to stop or pay to have you stop.

At one point, players would demand a toll and if you didn't pay it they would kill you.

Going to a noob area and killing your enemy's lower level members/alts in order to hamper them.

etc.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5673

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

4/24/13 11:58:40 AM#144
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sulaa

Not that i disagree. Certainly for players who only want to do arena, a arena/BG only game is probably better. But what about those who want instanced dungeons AND arenas? There are those who like both PvE & PvP. And they may not want to level up another toon in another game.

Having both in the same MMo is a compromise. Do you want to play the same toon for different gameplay? Or do you want to do that in different games? Different people answer those questions differently.

Its not too much of a compromise imo. Instanced PvP and co-op PvE work fairly well within the same game although the game should be balanced with PvP in mind. PvP is more vulnerable of the two  when these things are considered.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/24/13 12:04:49 PM#145
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

Its not too much of a compromise imo. Instanced PvP and co-op PvE work fairly well within the same game although the game should be balanced with PvP in mind. PvP is more vulnerable of the two  when these things are considered.

True. That is why WOW is popular .. with decent pve & pvp in the same game. There is some compromise, but it is good enough.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/24/13 12:06:11 PM#146
Decent dungeons
Wow pvp sucks
  Sulaa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/11
Posts: 906

4/24/13 1:26:01 PM#147
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sulaa
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sulaa

 

It's not something what I look for in mmorpg's though.  It's odd for me. It's like putting hardcore turn-based strategy in middle of action packed fast First Person Shooter.   

That is innovation .. providing something new.

Though not all new ideas are good .. without trying, you never know. Look at Borderlands .. .putting RPG into FPS .. works perfectly. MMORPGs can use a lot of ideas from other genre.

3rd Person Arena / BG only specialized games will pull more and more players playing mostly for istanced PVP from mmorpg's anyway.   By specializing they'll be able to offer better experience, sooner or later.  Faster developer cycles and not being hold back by PVE mechanics will have it effect. It's only matter of time.       

Not that i disagree. Certainly for players who only want to do arena, a arena/BG only game is probably better. But what about those who want instanced dungeons AND arenas? There are those who like both PvE & PvP. And they may not want to level up another toon in another game.

Having both in the same MMo is a compromise. Do you want to play the same toon for different gameplay? Or do you want to do that in different games? Different people answer those questions differently.

Yet. Purely PVP games like LoL, Dota 2 and WoT are ones that get most success vs. mmorpg's that had both PVE and PVP arenas and released in same time.  Dwarfs them in success also those that were f2p.

 

I am not saying that there won't be games that merge instanced PVE and instanced PVP in future - certainly there will be, but from how market is developing it seems that they'll be in miniority / niche.  Especially that players are getting used to superior instanced PVP and will be propably less willing to accept compromises.   For now - mmorpg's still have competetive advantage of having 3rd person perspective - something that many players love.  Most popular lobby PVP games don't have it and are either FPP or isometric.  Of course there are exceptions like Smite or Forge or Panzar, but they're recent games and aside of Smite they are indie developemnt and marketting wise.  So I wonder what happen when that competetive advantage Arena / BG PvP in mmorpg's have will disappear?

Besides you said that you play multiple mmos and online games.  It seems like you don't have problem with levelling multiple character.  Additionally many PVP lobby games do not require any levelling.  Example - Dota 2.

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

4/24/13 1:54:55 PM#148
Originally posted by Sulaa
 

Yet. Purely PVP games like LoL, Dota 2 and WoT are ones that get most success vs. mmorpg's that had both PVE and PVP arenas and released in same time.  Dwarfs them in success also those that were f2p.

 

I am not saying that there won't be games that merge instanced PVE and instanced PVP in future - certainly there will be, but from how market is developing it seems that they'll be in miniority / niche.  Especially that players are getting used to superior instanced PVP and will be propably less willing to accept compromises.   For now - mmorpg's still have competetive advantage of having 3rd person perspective - something that many players love.  Most popular lobby PVP games don't have it and are either FPP or isometric.  Of course there are exceptions like Smite or Forge or Panzar, but they're recent games and aside of Smite they are indie developemnt and marketting wise.  So I wonder what happen when that competetive advantage Arena / BG PvP in mmorpg's have will disappear?

Besides you said that you play multiple mmos and online games.  It seems like you don't have problem with levelling multiple character.  Additionally many PVP lobby games do not require any levelling.  Example - Dota 2.

can't really argue with this.

True .. LOL, DOTA2 & WoT are MORE successful than 99% of the MMO out there, except WOW and GW2.

True .. there is less leveling in some pvp lobby game (though the biggest one LOL has leveling).

 

 

 

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